HOW TO INSTALL MORTAR IN SHOWER PAN 

I’m fixing to DIY our shower. Watched quite a few videos and ran across yours today. I’m stuck honestly. Money doesn’t grow on trees, so I’m taking my time to LEARN and have it done right. Making sure I understand before I jump in! I’ll probably wait 7-10 days for the mortar to dry. I didn’t know the boards didn’t go into the pan even after watching some out their. I had the mind set to go straight into the pan until I watched quite a few videos from you and seen the 3 mistakes I was about to make!! Thank you for your videos!!

I really appreciate your vids. I am just a poor home owner with a lot of work to do. I am following closely. I just finished my shower membrane cover with your video. I am a DIY’er. I am paying attention and appreciate your efforts. Thank you Mr. Doyle. I can rebuild engine and transmissions but this bathroom is a whole another level. Thanks again.

I have watched several of these videos out of curiosity. As a tile installer of 16 years and someone who takes pride in the work they do, i have to say to other people watching who are looking for DIY advice. You will read a lot of comments about how he is doing things wrong. However I would like to tell you that there is a lot different ways to accomplish the same end result. His methods definatly take more time and work than necessary but they work for him. I dont think his intention is to steer anyone the wrong way but traditional proffesional techniques would be hard for DIY . Its not the way I would put that shower pan together as there is a few areas of his process that concers me personally. I would never build a curb with 2x4. Every shower I have ever seen with curbs like that all failed at the curb because they wrap the pan over and then put holes in it to secure some kind of board to the vinyl. Mind you they didnt coat the hell out of it with redguard after. But if water does get in, it will swell and open the grout up or pop the tile and more water will get in. Prefered method is to form your curb with 2x4 or 2x6 and use mortar mix with your vinyl pan folded about 3/4 of the way to the outside of the curb standing up as if there was another wall there. I cut the pan down about half an inch below the height of my form so that the mortar bonds together on both sides of the vinyl pan in the curb. That way you dont have to cut the pan down flat at the inside of the shower where the curb starts and it keeps the protection of the pan further back beyond where a door would mount. As for silicone under the pan at the drain i have always used henrys roofing tar as I trust the bond better to the vinyl and plastic of the drain over time but 100% silicone is commonly used. The proper term for floating pans is called drypack. You use a wood float to first pack and level your perimeter all the way around. Dont be afraid to pack it down tight .generally starting with about a 2 inch thickness but can vary depending on the dimensions of the shower and drain placement. I wouldnt go any thinner than an inch of mud at the drain. Like he said use rock or something around the weep holes. I dont always use 1/4 in. Per foot of slope as drain placement can cause some parts of the floor to be steeper than others. Water is going to flow down hill no matter what so as long as you have an even slope without high and low spots it will drain. After perimeter is done tape off and twist drain to height you need for slope. Pack your mud tight between your perimeter and drain making sure its higher than it needs to be. Use straight edges or your different length levels to pull excess mud off between perimeter and top of drain making sure to not damage the perimeter thats level. Its easier to cut mud off than add more and make it right. Work the mud in small circular movements with wood float. You will be able to feel high spots and cut them down with wood float. Fill low spots by dropping little handfuls of mud and going over with float. Then use a finishing trowel to get a nice finish on top and bond loose mud so it doesnt flake off when you walk on it next day. Then use needle nose pliers or similar to raise drain a bit for the thickness of the shower floor tile plus thinset. The finish trowel pulls water to the surface. You only need enough water to be able to ball the mud up in your hand and lightly bounce it without it falling apart. To much water will make it hard to work with and get it flat. You dont want it glossy when you finish trowel it. If making your own mixture use 4 parts sand and 1 part cement. As for boarding walls if you take the board down past the vinyl to the shower floor dont put any screws lower than where the board goes over you pan or you defeating the purpose of the pan. The folds of the pan can cause the walls to bow out at the bottom causing you to have issues installing tile. Another way to get around this is board walls only to where the vinyl pan starts. 6 inches from subfloor or foundation then to cut stips of metal lathe around 8 inches wide x the length of you shower walls and fold it at the 6 inch mark so that it sits at the top of the vinyl pan and out into the floor a couple inches. Secure it only at the top of the pan with screws. No holes in pan below 5 3/4 inches from floor. Then drypack the floor and fill that space in with mortar as you go using the wall board above as a screed for the mud. This will allow the wall to become thinner in the corners where the vinyl is folded and keeping the wall plumb. This isnt meant to bash starrtile's methods it only serves as more information. There is a lot of guys out there that are hacks. Starrtile seems like he knows these methods but chooses to do things his way. Thats fine if it works for him. He knows what he is doing more than probably 80 percent of the tile guys i have seen out there.

Wow!!! I've been watching different videos for a week now as I prepare to install my own mortar shower pan. Your videos are by FAR the best. Thank you. I am now excited to get started. You the man. Please keep posting.

These are absolutely great instructional videos. I'm about to create my own 5'X5' shower, and had so many questions which you are answering time and time again. I'm even going to watch your mortar-mixing video just to make sure there's no surprisess or secrets to such a seemingly simple thing. Thank you!

Love your videos. Super informative. I'm a new license carpenter, your videos have helped build me much more confidence.

Great video. Seeing you do the work AND hearing the steps and explanations of “why” to do something is very helpful. Great combination of visual and auditory demonstration.

About to remodel my first bathroom. These videos are so helpful, thank you so much.

Good video. Note that very little water evaporates, it gets incorporated chemically into the concrete. Whatever concrete volume you mix is, for practical purposes, the finished volume, which tells you the water is still there but not free. The small difference only counts when setting base plates for columns or supports. I normally use cement board instead of wallboard when building shower and tub enclosures.

Usually RU-vidrs Don put long videos and I don't think is the best idea when trying to explain something so important like building something in your own home. With that thanks for taking the time to explain everything step by step and going into the details, I've been doing bathrooms mostly for the last 17 years and i never had an easy job. I agree 100% with the way you do the pan liner, still i just learned from you to put the bolts after the liner and it makes a lot of sense. Very entertaining and useful videos. Subscriber from now.

Who has the right to complain about free valuable information? I love your thorough and detailed information. I'm so grateful for your expertise, camera angles, lighting, and all that you put into your videos. Outside of constructive criticism, there's always unnecessary and ungrateful negativity. Those same people would probably give heaven like 3 stars. "Moses isn't as tall as I thought he would be!! The line to eternal peace was too long!"

This video is awesome! I like the way you go into detail. I've laid floors in the past that will help alot. Thank you for taking the time and going into detail to help people understand how you did each step.

So good to see a common sense old school mortar pan made instead of the Schluter crap. There are dozens of not hundreds of Schluter failure videos out there, granted maybe from improper installation but it’s just asking for trouble.

great content as always! I do appreciate the "dumbing down" and always take in what you have to say because as a homeowner, I would like to know what I don't. keep up the vids.

Your intro music is awesome so are your videos. Don't change anything. Your channel is very underrated you should have more subscribers. Always look forward to your videos. Your common sense way of doing things is the way to go that's how the work lasts. I'd hire you any day over Sal. Keep up the hard work Bob!

You are the channel Ive been looking for, for a very long time. Your step by step for DIYer is awesome, and the "why you don't" do something is invaluable. And you show the right tools to use also. Ive almost worked up the nerve now to rip out that dam plastic shower I have and do it myself. Subscribed.

You’re awesome man. Thank you so much for the expertise. Honestly I’ve watched other videos and I can see mistakes that some people are making because I watched your videos. Really appreciate the work you do.

Thanks Bob, giving the reasons for what you do really helps me to understand what I am trying to do and what I am trying to avoid.

Awesome video very interesting point where you talk about leaving that gap between your cement board and morter bed

Shower pans not draining was our Number 1 culprit for many years. Especially after the elimination of sheet tile being replaced with 4 or 6 inch tiles. Alot of the crews just couldn't get them to drain, install the tile without "kickers" or cut even around the drain. I had one sub crew hide the premixed floor mud in their trucks and bring in cement board to "spot" install in the shower recess. Until I caught them. Also, I had one guy who poured liquified floor mud into the vinyl liner and plugged up the weep holes and the J neck underneath. I finally found an employee who could float them beforehand or we used Pro float sticks

This man is a good pro. I learned these tips 35 yrs. ago from real pros like this. Now I'm glade I don't have to.

A great video..I will make sure my cement guy watches so the pan will look like yours. Many many thanks for a job well done.

Very Thorough on your explanations and on what I can see you do Very well done

You rock, Bob! Watching ALL your how to videos!

At 13:00. Water does not evaporate from concrete! Instead, the cement absorbs the water through a chemical reaction. To cure concrete properly, you should not put a fan on it. Instead, the mortar will cure better, stronger, if you flood it with water for as long as possible. A week would do well, but 3 days should be enough. The alternative is to use an accelerant, like in the red stripe mortar. Slow drying cement will cure stronger than quick drying cement (as a rule of thumb).

thank you so much. this is only the 4th video of yours i have viewed and they are all excellent

lol once again I was premature on my last question lol. Thanks Bob I know how to level the drain now 😂

This video is my favorite so far. I'm following your instructions as closely as possible in my current shower build 😃

Before pouring the bed put adhesive in between the pan liner where the hospital folds were made and wedge 2x4 uprights in all 4 corners. This will eliminate the voids, and give you sharp inside edges.

Good stuff. Very thorough. I like you opinions and the "why" as to your ideas.

You have a great channel and your videos are super informative. Thanks for all you do!

I’ve watched a bunch of your videos and Im always jamming to your music

very glad you did this video on how to set drain and mortar in a new shower

Just subscribed. Thanks for what your doing for the community

Great video series. I will be using everyone of these techniques this week.

Thanks for sharing all the great tips! The last video had awesome music throughout! Loved it! Dont let tha haters dictate!

This was very helpful. More complicated than I anticipated. Thank you.

The mic works great and again great video hope to bump into you some time . 👍👍

All your instructions are clear and great!

Just to let you know I love the entry music. It is unusual and very pleasant.

Great video. This way seems so much easier then other methods I’ve seen.

Your intro music is great, really good overall style in my opinion. Thanks for the content.

Hello! It’s one more way to do it. You mastered your way and you look like know what you doing, but I still would suggest to level out first perimeter an work your way in, in that case there’s less chances to add or get it in right level. Thank you very much I watch your channel an there’s a lot of stuff I can use. Thanks again!

That gap you have in the corners... I use pvc glue to glue those flaps flat against each other. =)

First and foremost thank you for taking time to make these videos. I see some guys do a preslop under the liner which make sense to me as a diy'r. I'd like to know your thoughts on why you don't feel it's nesacery. Disregard. I see you already answered this on a previous post. Preslop not needed if water proofing b4 tile. Thanks again.

Hi I’m trying to figure out why you should red guard the shower pan. My thought is if water gets past the tile grout and mortar (which it will) then that’s were the liner and weep holes take effect. I’m a DIY guy so your the professional and I appreciate and like your videos so I’m asking you why you do it. Thank you for your experience and suggestions!

very simple and Good Job Good idea thanks a lot man make my projects more simple.

Good professional job, I’m learning from you!

Very helpful and thanks for taking the time to share your years of experience!

Meet too! Watched hours of video but found these to be far and away the most helpful, detailed, and instructive. How much gap do you leave between the top of the pan mortar and the top of the drain...for the thinset and tile? Thanks again.

Great video thanks for making me feel that I could tackle this shower!

Excellent. So I think 🤔 your putting on wall board the next day ?

Bob... When you mount your wall board on front inside of curb do you use regular screws through the membrane? Do you do the same through the membrane on surrounding walls? Maybe stay up about 2 inches (or-so) above the pan?

Always informative and intelligent!

Excellent video 👍

You could be a radio show host.

Thanks for the instruction. Do you put Red guard on the motar? If you do, how long does it take to dry before you can start to tile? 🙂

Awesome stuff!!! Thanks, Don...You da man!!!

Great Job Bob!!👍 I can really tell it's "Nothing But Skill All in the Wrist" Very Awesome Vid, Keep up the Great Work!😏

Thanks for all this great info! You can get a gopro 5 for about $150 and it would really help your video lessons.

Where did you find that 70's porn movie sound track? Brings back fond memories. For first time DIYers, given that your shower is 3' square with a center drain like many are: Short of giving a lesson in geometry, just take my word for it, you will not get your pan float perfectly flat in all directions. It is geometrically impossible. So don't waste time trying. Save yourself some anguish and do not use large format tiles for your shower floor. Anything over 4" in a 3' square shower will start giving you problems. That's why you see a lot of Mosaic floor tile in shower floors. By far the easiest for first timers.

After watching a few of StarrTile's videos, I feel like I shouldn't be letting the wallboard touch the pan. I have that right? ;-)

The Next day? The video text says 3 days of waiting before waterproofing. Did I miss something there? Great video BTW! Thanks!

@Starr-Tile LIFE - did you put anything under the duroc? No sealer or anything on the plywood itself?

Always look forward to your videos Bob!

The lapel mic was a good add.

What about "floating" the curb? Is that as undesirable as backer board in the mud bed?

I removed the shower pan liner and used a new liner after I seeing these 2 videos because I felt I did 3 thing3 incorrect: (1) did not apply 100% silicon caulk under the liner (2) I did not put small gravel around the drain on the liner (3) I opened 4 wrong holes for the 4 bolts. Thank you very much for sharing your expertise. Oner question: You said you are going to apply Redgard on the mortar for water proofing. what kind of mortar/tin set are going to use for placing ceramic tiles? Your advise is appreciated.

What do you put in the gap that is created when you don't put the wallboard to touch the mud ( prevents wicking) then you wall tile to the floor?. Do you put silicone?

Bob, I just watched your Video. Not bad I learned something new. Hey have you ever thought of invested in a gopro head gear?

The water in the concrete gets chemically bound TO the concrete, concrete should always have water in it, the longer it sets, the more water is converted into the chemical bonds the cement is making between the water and sand. In fact, its even best to keep its surface wet during setting to prevent it drying out, for if that happens, its just dust and will just fall apart. Which is what basically is happening when he came back the next day, the top is dried out, and it falls apart because the chemical bonds could not be finished for a lack of water.

awesome video explained very well. Have you ever considered doing a Roman style tub/shower? It's basically a tub made out of wood or concrete with tile over it?? I want to try it for my bathroom

Great job, voice, microphone.

Do you put gravel for weep holes?

Excellent presentation!

Great vid Sir....helped this DIYer a ton

if you slide your floor tile under the wallboard im curious how do you red guard seal between the pan and wall?.. im pretty certain redgaurd won't stick to vynal pvc pan I don't think anything would except for solvent types like glue

My contractor didn't put pebbels at the weep holes but instead doubled up on metal lathe around the drain as we used reinforcing on the bottom since the pan was really big - (7'x4'). Am I going to have problems down the road?

I still don't understand why my family are so cheap, they just put red guard in screw holes and not cover the whole bathing area. I'm wondering is it because the bathtub's height and the space between the backer board, is enough to negate the wicking of water? As always, like always, I enjoy your vids, but hate headache and labor. At least with the videos I can minimize one of the two hates. lol.

I like your videos, including the intro music. The new mike is great.

I am just curious if this a method you figured out on your own or were you an apprentice to someone. I am sure methods differ in other parts of the country. We do it a little different in my area of the midatlantic. Just create a level screed around the perimeter of the floor which is quarter inch per foot higher than the drain and pull off the mud in between with a straight edge, rub it down with a wooden beating block, and trowel with a flat trowel.

Great Tutorial! Question... How do you gage what should the adjustment be for the drain? one inch, two inch above the mortar?

VERY WELL DONE

You can cut and flash the corners instead of folding to get it flatter for no gaps between the mortar.

Thank you for great instructions. First time watching and prepping for my first shower job. Quick question. Do you not slope floor prior to laying down shower liner? Is it recommended? Thanks Oleg

That's a beautiful job! Thanks for posting!

Nice video as always Bob and thanks! Quick question; I poured my pan as you said but used the perfect pitch system. Somehow my pan after drying for days doesn't slope down enough to the drain on one side. My bad. Ha Can I just add more mortar on top of the of the already dried pan and slope it correctly to get the 1/4 inch per foot slope? Guess it is not a quick question after all. ha

thanks for your great videos! Very helpful and thorough.

I still prefer to dry pack and then hot mop, only wait time is for the tar to cool down. The pitch is already set and done fore the tiler. We have torn out to many failed membrane systems. Good vid though.

Here's an idea for you to kick around. To avoid your mortar corner problems, Red Gard the bottom 8 inches of your Dorock / Hardibacker, bottom, back and sides with 2 coats... and then you can install it first, before your mortar bed... nice, clean, square corners...Genius...

With the corners bumping out a bit would you ever consider using a PVC glue to adhere the corners at the bottom rather than the durock shim and then poor the pan motor? I fully believe there's nothing wrong with your method to add a shim then thinset the corners, just looking to get your input on whether its worth gluing the bottom corners for a "tighter" right angle. Thanks in advance!

Your video was more helpful than any of the several I watched (but the music does suck obnoxiously).

Very good! A questiin... Cant you put the liner down, the tile on the top? Trying to make a washer pan for 2nd floor laundry closet and space will be an issue if we use too much mortar. The premade washer pans are thin, and I'd prefer an actual drain

Love your vids and especially dig the intro music...don't change a thing

Bob, I know you are not a fan of a pre-slope and lay your liner fist and then pour your pan. Would you also not use a pre-slope on a concrete basement floor shower? Lay your liner over smooth concrete and pour your pan?

You hold the wall bar 2 inches above the curb then you float the whole shower with fat mud then do the pan with deck mud and wagon wheel it to get your pitch

Hi Bob, Thank you for taking the time to make this video. I just had one question if you can help me out. After you laid the mortar and leveled it did you put water inside of the pan right after ? And how much water did you put in it? This is my first time doing this so i want to make sure i am doing it in the correct order. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

A round Corner trowel works very well AKA a pool trowel. The corners of the trial will not dig into your mortar

Thank you. Your a big help on most of your info 👍

How do you water proof the seat/step inside the shower?