This video is exactly what I needed. I also watched the Munro Live video and got freaked out. I originally had a certified electrician come out and hard wire a Tesla wall charger, but my bill never said about what type of breaker and wire/gauge. Out of concern I had a separate company come out and "double check" the work and all is good. I mentioned about the continuous load and he said that the #6 Romex is fine. This is contrary to what you're mentioning here. If I ran at a lower amp would that be safer (say 30a or 35a)?
So many electricians will tell you #6 ROMEX is fine because with just about any other electrical equipment out there, it is OK - but not for the continuous loads of EV charging. If you dial it back to 40-amps you'll be fine and you'll barely even notice the time difference in charging.
We turned ours down to 24 amps for our plugin it's 5kw plenty of power for us to fully charge overnight. Now the cord doesn't even get warm. If it gets warm you are loosing energy to heat, fight the resistance.
What is the breaker size and what setting do you have the wall connector on? I think there might be some confusion with that part of the video. If you have a 50 amp breaker and the Wall Connector (EVSE) is set at 40 amps, then the #6 NM-B (Romex) is to code.
Excellent point made in this video. I've been retired now since 2010, and was an IBEW & UAW electrician for 30 yrs and 25 yrs electrical technician with the FAA. These are all excellent suggestions for a common sense home owner who wishes to wire his own charger circuit. But if the electrician you hire doesn't already know everything you've talked about in this video you'd probably be better off following all these suggestions and just wiring it yourself.
I had my solar installers add a 14-50 for charging. I just paused the video and went out and checked. Looks like they did it right. Dedicated circuit, THHN AWG 6 in conduit, Hubbell receptacle in a metal box. Thanks for doing this. I don't need to make any changes, but the peace of mind is nice.
Good to hear. After 6-8 months of use, shut off the breaker (make sure it's the correct one!) and check to make sure the connections in the outlet are all still nice and tight.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Excellent advice! Just over 35 years ago I worked as an electrician's mate (no license or education), so I'm just familiar enough to be dangerous, but I did break out my in/lb torque driver while I was out there. It was more than a quarter turn before it clicked over on the 75 in/lb spec setting, so they had loosened a bit.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Another good point. In fact home owners would be wise to make that an annual home inspection. But not just for the charger circuit. Turn the main service breaker off. Remove breaker panel cover and tighten all breaker screws. Once any breaker screw begins to arc the breaker itself may not trip but the loose wire connection at the breaker will begin to heat up and start a fire. Another reason to use metal conduit versus electrical pvc conduit.
As an EE with over 30 yrs experience, I installed a 50A line for the Tesla mobile connector in my garage. Make sure you do the wiggle test on each conductor and re-torque each lug if needed. One of mine slightly loosened after 6 months producing heat.
@@Pythonzzz John, thank you for catching my typo error. Despite proofing, I missed it probably due to old age. It's 30+ years experience. Original text corrected.
So I just checked my connections (installation was a year ago) and one of them was loose. I guess this will go on my 8 month to do list. Thanks again Tom for bringing this important information to the EV community.
A big benefit of an outlet is if you need to have warranty work done, the home owner can unplug the unit and have it serviced vs needed to have an electrician come out to unwire it and then come back and rewire it back up.
I'm a homeowner and did my own 100amp hardwired Grizzle Ultimate. Love it and working great. Only difference on my DIY is I'm an electrical engineer and work in the power industry, but yes not an electrician. I used 2gauge service wire with a PCB disconnect at charger and an external digital meter for tracking usage besides the in app tracking. Have photos of install if interested.
Wow, very informative especially being that I am picking up my new EV tomorrow. Thanks to your video, I will hire an electrician that specializes in EV charging installations because I am not willing to take any risks.
There needs to be a national standard set for home EV charging installations. My first NEMA 14-50R install failed - aluminum wiring and residential 14-50R installed by an electrician who obviously didn't know what he was doing (and it could have caused a fire). Replaced it with a hardwired system by an electrician who's rated to do EV charge station installs. No problems since.
Great video--thanks for making it. This comment partially echoes some previous posts ... here's some good advice for everybody: set the amperage limit to reach your target level by the time you need it, but not higher. That way, you're stressing the wiring less, which is safer. I also prefer my energy going to the batteries, not heating the wires. Charging at 20A for 5 hours, then sitting for 5 hours, is not as smart at charging at 10A for 10 hours.
Sandy's video and yours with both of your experts is spot on. I had an electrician install my NEMA 14-50 outlet. I have a 200 amp circuit and he spec'ed it well as well as installing a higher grade outlet. My EVSE and outlet are outside. The outlet is in a weather proof box. Since the outlet tops at 50 amps the car is only drawing 32 amps. Fortunately the EVSE and even my car can go even lower than the 32 amps which is great. I charge at night off peak and only need a couple hours then I'm back at 80%. The wires aren't hot which is key. The breaker isn't hot either which are all good things. And since I use the parent company the electrician works for, for other licensed and dedicated services such as plumbing and HVAC they will be coming out periodically to check their work, my EVSE and all of the electrical in the house to make sure I'm good to go.
I just finished watching Sandy Munro's video which you referenced and then stumbled on yours. As I commented there, I live in Mexico, we have very few EVs right now but it's growing. However, our electric utility CFE, will install a separate meter for a dedicated service for EV charging which I think is a really good idea and should eliminate these problems. Maybe the U.S. should consider doing that to avoid these issues.
FWIW, I did it myself and I have considerably more DIY electrical experience than most folks. This video is dead on, pay someone. Doing it yourself correctly requires a lot of homework. You have to buy a torque screwdriver and torque all the connections to spec., handle heavy gauge wire that is far more difficult to work with than regular household Romex, etc. And FWIW, think carefully about how fast you actually need to charge. I put in a 50 amp circuit but bought a 32 amp max EVSE. I figured out the relative speed difference between maximum 40 and maximum 32 amps wasn't going to matter to me, and so I saved money on my EVSE AND have the peace of mind that I'm not pushing the circuit, the wiring and the plug to anywhere close to their rated limits. It is probably marginally easier on my batteries as well. If I eventually need to buy a new, higher amp EVSE I will likely pay a professional to hardwire it.
Thank you for the great video - a must for EV owners. Having been "involved" in developing Article 625, hardwiring is definitely preferred for installing an AC home charger (EVSE) and connecting with a "range" plug should be avoided for all the reasons you stated and more. Class A GFCI works with both grounded and double insulated equipment and thus the 5 mA trip level and 0.5 allowable leakage levels. Since the EV must be grounded, a "ground monitor interrupter" (GMI) and "charge circuit interrupting device" (CCID20) in the EVSE provides an equivalent level of personnel protection without compromising the physiological effects. The CCID also does a self test every time prior to start up and thus no test/reset buttons that aren't normally used as required. A Class A GFCI breaker subverts the CCID20/GMI and will trip unnecessarily and turn system off until human intervention.
Great Video Tom! I just uploaded a video to my channel of me plugging in my Tesla Model Y out my kitchen window from my apartment that’s in the city. I hooked up an L6-30 Hubbell Receptacle 5 years ago to a 2 Pole 30A breaker. In 5 years I’ve unplugged it once. It always stays plugged in. In one of my videos I mention exactly this, that you should never unplug the EVSE. My EVSE is only 20 Amps. I did not hire an electrician. I’ve hooked up 9 EVSEs in the past 10 years for me, family and friends so far. I always use copper wire, Hubbell receptacles and direct runs. Unfortunately I’ve never re-torqued the connections of this circuit. I guess I’ll add that to my to-do list for this weekend. Thanks Tom!
Tom, you did a great job and I would only add that a 20 amp 110 outlet is known by not just its vertical slots for the plug, but one of them has a horizontal slot. That socket is rated for more current which is what you need as well as the breaker to be rated at because it’s a continuous load. #followeverypointpeople
Gary, Most homes have a "Push in wiring" for their receptacles. This is junk, and can overheat, especially when it comes to running a 120 volt EV charger. I overheated the 120 volt exterior receptacle at my house too. The replacement plug has the wires wrapped around the screw on the side of the receptacle. Another type is a clamp on type of wire holder, found on the $7 receptacles at Home Depot, not the $1.25 receptacle. You can ask the guy at Home Depot to show you the difference. Usually someone there is knowledgeable enough to know the difference. (You slide in the wire to a space where the metal square piece clamps down on the wire when you tighten the screw).
@@Kangenpower7 I also had an outlet starting to char and since I'm charging a PHEV on 120v I got another EVSE that was adjustable and I noticed that anything less than 10 amps didn't make any heat. So I went for nine amps. Which is plenty to charge the car overnight. Also, I replaced the outlet 😁 you know it was possibly very old. Anyways, this house is from the '80s
Qmerit installed a Pass & Seymour 14-50 outlet in my garage as part of the promotion when buying a Chevrolet Bolt EUV. Since the OEM EVSE with the Bolt only draws 32 amps, it has a greater safety margin, but I'm definitely going to check on it after six months of use.
You're asking great questions - Thanks! I hope these questions are addressed with Vehicle to Grid usage demand requirements coming soon. I believe the conditions in this discussion are all due to load demand. Something that we've done on our own for the last six years, is installing a load rated Fusible Disconnect with Fast Acting Fuses between the EV Charger outlet and Power Source (this design has saved bigger problems). Consider this option as the most direct method, such as with Air Conditioning Units (HACR rated Circuit Breakers only) on the Panel Supply to handle continuous demand issues . All these Electrical Standards are part of NFPA 70 for A/C equipment currently. Also, any Aluminum on the Panel Buss, Circuit Breakers, and Wiring is a low standard to handle the heat without upsizing for demand, at best for heavy demand products. Commercial Systems are Copper for good reason. Another option is using a Smart EV Charger outlet that can be set to power transfer of 60 to 80% based on Existing Panel load calculations. Be Safe
I highly recommend a minimum of 3 quotes because pricing varies greatly. Try to give all electricians the same specifications such as #6 THHN copper wire, 60 amp beaker, hard wire connection for 48A continuous. If the high price quote adds so called “safety equipment”, ask the other electricians if it’s needed.
Thanks for the video. This video is about safety. Don’t mess with electricity. There are many things I will try to diy , this is not one of them because I don’t have expertise , experience. The risk is not worth it. If I can afford an EV, then I surely can afford the electrician to professionally install the outlet as well.
Tom, I agree a hard wired installation would be best for safety and reliability. Mechanically a superior connection than a contact surface to surface tensioned connection. ✅
I agree I wouldn't use a receptical for any charger capable of charging at more than 30 amps. All larger chargers would be much safer direct wired to an appropriate breaker with properly sized THHN wiring.
Good video. Safety is the best approach. Thermal expansion and contraction is a fact of electrical connection points. Low Resistance is critical in an electrical connection. A loose connection creates higher resistance and more heat (linear for resistance, squared for current; I-squared x Resistance = watts (heat)). Thanks for the video.
Even in my new modular home, the breaker lugs on my electric furnace needed retightening on the breaker after a couple years. All heavy duty/high current electrical connections need to be checked for proper torque every couple of years.
Qmerit's electrician did an install of an outlet in our garage. First he shows up with a $12 dollar range 14-50 outlet, second no torque driver, third strips the wires way too much and fourth his company never got a permit even though GM paid them $250 for it. I had a Hubbell 14-50 but he didn't have the right box for it. I complained to Qmerit and sent them a photo of the install, wish I could send it to you, showing the wire connections.
This is for those of us who live in an EV wasteland where there are few if any electricians who regularly install EV home chargers.I was lucky enough to find a licensed electrician who had installed a few home chargers in the past 6 months.My area does not even require a permit.He put in a dedicated 50 amp circuit breaker in my panel for a Lectron 40 Amp maximum plug in for a 14-50 plug.He had to use a junction box to make the run from my panel which is in my laundry room inside the house to the plug inside my garage.I have a 2021 Leaf with a 62 kw battery and when I charge it with the J-1772 plug it never gets above 27.6 amps while charging.I suspect that the car will not accept anything higher and perhaps that is why the charger doesn`t even get that warm.It would be useful to know what vehicles were being charged on those melted plugs that were shown.Some vehicles were meant to charge faster and can accept more amperage while others are energy sippers and take much longer to charge,like my Leaf.Nothing except the charger gets warm so far.The metal plug and junction box housings are cold to the touch.Tesla and Rivians and many others may charge faster but maybe that should be mentioned when comparing failure rates of home outlets etc.My question is are all EV`s charging rates created equal in terms of potential plug and wiring failures.I also saw Sandy Munro`s video and wow,it definetely got my attention!Thanks for the follow up video clarifying some of the issues.
Very good suggestion to have a dedicated 120V outlet if those garage outlets were installed long time ago. When I first used a random 120V outlet in our garage to charge our Leaf many years ago, we had some really bad smell in my office once in a while and it lasted for months before I realized 1 of the outlets inside my office close to the garage got so hot that it released that smell so I traced the wires going to the garage and is actually piggy-back connected from that hot outlet. Good thing back then there was no 48A charging otherwise the house would have been burned down.
Pull a permit! This requires load calculations. Don’t plug and unplug EVSE and there will be far fewer (if not 0 ) issues. I almost never unplug my two EVSEs.
I had my NEMA 14-50 installed TODAY by an electrician who said that he bought “quality” materials for EV charging. I have a Wallbox EVSE. When he was over he said to put the ground up and bend the pigtail cable. I had him put the ground down anyway so I could have the wire have a gentle curve. Now I’m doubting this guy bought quality materials especially after he said the receptacle cost $20. He installed a the nema 14-50 in a plastic box using 10ft of 6gauge wire… I wish this video came out one day prior so I could have backed out or at least verified that understood he needed to buy quality materials. I did have an inspector come out and he said everything was good… Not quite sure what my next steps would be to make sure my outlet can handle the 40amp load for 7 hours. I’m sure it’ll be fine since I normally charge 2-3 times a week. But the peace of mind knowing it was done correctly would be nice. I did receive a quote from Qmerit but their quote was more than double every local electrician.
The electrician didn't do some things right but they were correct in wanting to install the NEMA 14-50 outlet with ground up. All 240 V outlets' standard configurations have the ground pin on top. You would need to move your Wallbox EVSE if it's already mounted so the input wire isn't bent to much. It's best to wait to wall mount your EVSE until after the outlet is installed.
These outlets have been used in RV parks and individual homes for plugging in RVs since there creation many moons ago . They are constantly used being plugged and unplugged and loads can be sustained . It's a receptacle like a 120v outlet . Yes better quality is better but I have seen some of these outlets still working in RV parks for 50 years or longer .
I charge a Fiat 500e on a 20A GFCI receptacle/circuit here in Nevada. After a couple of years, there was clear 'heat' damage at the plug, black and brown burn marks and brittle plastic. Part of the problem may be that the home was originally wired with ALL exterior and bathroom circuits through one GFCI plug in the garage. So, for even level 1 chargers, depending on circuit load, damage can occur. Though no fire and the circuit still worked. I have since replaced with a new receptacle.
Simple Observation might catch issues. Look at the plug and outlet for any color change. If the color is OK, place your hand on the plug (when the vehicle is charging) , it should not be hot, only slightly warm. Any Fails above, then STOP using and get it fixed.
I think its great that you highlight the need to use high quality electrical components, but its not enough. Sandy Munro recently did a similar video on the dangers of cheap components which was far more useful because it mentioned brands and types of materials, specifically Bakelite receptacles made by Bryant or Hubbell. Now at least I know what to look for other than just pay more.
I had an electrician install a charging outlet on the side of the building. It's a straight run to a closeable RV box. I built a little house to protect it. I don't run more than 32 amps through it and I haven't had any over heating problems. My car usually charges in less than two hours. I rarely unplug the charging station. It seems to be an industrial outlet. It's very hard to plug in and unplug. I do check for tightness and everything is good. I would say over rate and under use. I did have an instance while charging when an appliance was inadvertently left on and the main circuit breaker was tripped. I now try to be aware of how many appliances are operating in the house. With electric heat running in the winter it poses a challenge sometimes. Good reason to turn off the lights when leaving a room.
Excellent information Tom as always. It's been 8 months so time to check my connections. I do have a Charge Point Home Flex (Per your review recommendation) that has been in service for 8 months now. I only use it 1-2 times per week. The Charge Point is on a dedicated 50 amp circuit and is set to 40 amps. After watching this video I am wondering if I should hard wire it.
So I just checked my connections and one of them was loose. I guess this will go on my 8 month to do list. Thanks again Tom for bringing this important information to the EV community.
The great thing about the tesla is that you can adjust the charge Amperage on the vehicle screen. So although I have a 50 Amp breaker and capable of charging at 38 Amps (75% of 50amps), I charge my EV at 18 Amps. This keeps the whole charging system cooler. Hot wires means wasting energy in the form of heat. You don't need to charge at high amps if you are charging overnight for 8 hours or more. BTW, I used the proper 6 gauge THHN and a High grade wall connector. If your connector does not use an Allen wrench to tighten the wires, and uses a regular screwdriver instead, you know you have a fire-starter. Also the only time I charge at home at 38 Amps is if I need to charge at about 28 miles an hour. Otherwise a slow 15 to 18 amp slow charge is the best. Your equipment will love love you for it.
I had an electrician install an outlet on the front corner of the building with a 60 amp breaker and built an enclosure to keep it dry. It has worked quite well and has had no overheating problems. I have a 32 amp station plugged in and the car doesn't charge more than 2 hours as a general rule. I used to take the station on the road and charge at RV parks as needed.
I believe you'll find your charger is actually a 30 amp charger. A clamp on amp meter is also a good way to determine if your breaker and wiring are properly sized for your charger.
Can someone please explain why the NEMA 1450 outlet is so popular with "Portable" EVSEs? Most charging stations don't use the neutral wire so why not just use a 6-50 outlet indoors.
Technically you are right - a 6-50 would do the job as well. But from a practical point of view, 14-50s are far, far, more common in the wild. For example at any RV park that offers "50 amp" electrical service. (Not as important today as when road tripping 10 years ago - when there was little EV-specific charging infrastructure.)
Great information Tom. I've noticed in many of your videos you mention "safety certified". How does a normal consumer know what is OK? Are there EU or other ratings that are OK or must everything only be UL certified. Any explanation of the different labs that would be acceptable would be helpful as we have a global marketplace.
In the UK you cant fit EV chargers at home it's illegal plus you won't be sold the parts unless you are a qualified fitter of ev installations plus most like mine are ccs plugs with round pins 7kw with armoured cable I watch the fitters fit my system in they fitted their own fuse and went straight to main power by passing the main fuse box as they fitted a special one just for EV Charging they did an amazing job it took them all day to fit the system in so I feel safe had no problems so far the system is called easee from Norway which cost a 1000 pounds plus fitting which wasn't cheap but was well worth it as they did a tremendous job and it was bigger than the load as they do 3 phase as well but all get fitted with the heavy-duty cables and attachments I am a vehicle electrician and mechanic would I off fitted it if I could well no I would not. 40+ amps is a lot of power so knowing me I would not have had a clue what cable to fit plus my garage was a distance from the house that's why it took them all day plus the power cable was across the house so they had to feed it through the living room and the dining room through the conservatory across a beam onto the garage then right to the end mine is outside so that I can charge it inside or outside mainly its charged outside so stay safe our system is 240v all so we can also go 3 phase but that is expensive as a new cable from the mains from the road which has to be dug up which has to be fitted first then you can charge at 64+ amps and fully charge is 3 hours max.
Great video, however QMerit uses local contractors, at least through GM. The contractor that did my install did a terrible job, he did not use the specified wire size, and never pulled the permit I should have but don’t. I had to do everything over at my own expense. QMerit never resolved the situation.
I watched a video where the electrician, when torquing the wire, made a point of torquing, then wiggling the wire, then torquing, then wiggling, etc. He said that was important because it's stranded wire that can shift and compress and work loose over time.
This was so timely. Should I have an EV electrician check my outlets and box once per year? Once per 2 years? Ford recommends the car be plugged in when parked and other EV owners I talk to do that. In the Munro video there was a suggestion to only charge as needed. Very different approaches. With my mach-e I use the evse that came with the car on a 14-50 plug that never gets unplugged (maybe once a year). For my mini cooper I use a Clipper Creek EVSE designed for a 14-30 plug. That also never gets unplugged. Is it worth the expense to convert them at this point to hardwired...hmmmm? Also my electrician installed a whole house surge suppressor, no one has mentioned that in the videos???
Thank you for the informative video. You guys covered the higher amps . I spliced an extension from my dryer outlet 240v 32amps using 8guage 40amps 600v flexible portable power Soow Cord from Home Depot. So far, it's working fine. Could this possibly cause an issue in the long run?
Picked up my 2023 F-150 XLT Lightning today, now I need a charger installed. Love all your content (Subscriber) and have been watching for a while now. Plan to have the Emporia EV 48 AMP Charger installed. What #6 copper wire should I have the electrician use? Also, going to have a NEMA 14 outlet installed too (for backup-things break). What outlet do you recommend? Thanks !!!
I would have liked a discussion on the Tesla mobile connector, since each connector has supposedly a temperature sensor to detect the outlet overheating, it’s also by far the lowest cost option for charging
Yes, UMC2 is limited to 32A vs UMC1 at 40A. I think Tesla also uses a thinner, lighter weight cable on UMC2. My 2017 model S had a UMC1 and I miss that 25% faster charging.
Nice, overview on the best practices for the installation of EVSEs. But NEMA L14-50 twist lock options should have been mentioned IMHO. And I look forward to your post on smart electrical management system, such as breaker boxes Since they can give users indications, if there's a defect in the system, before it causes a fire. Based on such parameters as voltage and amperage drops.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney or the more common 6-50 twist lock.... I inherited a bunch of twist locks from my father.... So when should I bring some by ? lol
Another thing I like to do is turn off my charger receptical breaker prior to plug in or unplugging my charger to avoid a possible arc at the receptical.
There would be no significant arc if the car is not plugged in. In order to have an arc to happen there would need to be a path for current to flow. Given that when the EV is unplugged, there is only a very small path for the current to flow through the electronics in the charging monitor, there would be no arc when plugging in or unplugging the cable to the wall outlet.
Lots of 120V / 240V @ 10A to 15A J1772 charging cords using a 6-20P and not UL/CSA certified. They usually come with a 6-20 to 5-15 adapter. We have one that we love because it's portable for charging at 10A from 120V and even that warms up and I keep drooling over upgrading to a 15A one that we could use in a campground (first gen. EV - gotta charge often and never enough range to get into a campground and get back to a DC charger)! I cringe when I look at the newer ones claiming 12A, or more from 15A outlet. I used plug-in timers for water heaters - was stunned to see the plastic case charring and even the pins unsoldering themselves from the circuit board due to the heat.
Even 120 V receptacles are not designed for daily 12 amp continuous draw with multiple plug /unplug events per week. But, power draw is lower than 240 V circuits and thus heating should be less, but that comes down to wires used.
nope. since in NA a split phase system is used. with 2, 120V lines to create 1, 240 V circuit, thus it heats up just as much, based on the amperage.....
@@nc3826 huh? 240 V circuits for EVSEs can be as high as 100 amps. 20 amps is the limit for 120 V. To calculate heat generation I suspect cross sectional area and current are determining factors.
@@barryw9473 240 V load needs 2 separate, 120 V lines for NA split phase electrical service.... In another words, It is what's used in the US, for residential use vs a 240V single phase service, in the rest of the world,. which is twice as efficient, and generates half the heat for the same amount of power... if all the parameters are the same.... sorry for confusing you and have a nice day....
@@nc3826 Heating is a function of current, not voltage. Split phase, single phase is irrelevant. What is current in a conductor? Split phase supplies half current in each conductor, I’m guessing, so less heating in NA since half the current. If not, please explain.
They need to create a combination arc fault breaker for these higher amperages at 240 volt . The melting is mostly caused by arc . The technology is there it's required for most 120v circuits in a house just need to require it for ev outlets
What’s qmerit’s stance on whole-house / breaker box surge protection? I had electrician install a Siemens brand protector when I got my first EV; we have lots of bad electrical storms in my area and have had other equipment “popped” before. I didn’t want my EV added to that list. I’d love to hear a professional’s opinion of them, how effective they are, and whether they are worthwhile to protect your EV & EVSE. Also, do EVSE have their own surge protection?
Would it help to record how hot the breaker/plug got? An adhesive non-reversible temperature label could do this. I suspect one of the issues is the charging/heating happens in the middle of the night and by morning time the breakers/plugs have cooled down. Unless one got up in the middle of the night and checked the temperature they would never know. An adhesive non-reversible temperature label could be used to record the highest temp and could be checked long after the breaker/plug cooled down. For example these adhesive temperature labels could be stuck on a breaker/plug: * a Thermax TLCSEN013 permanently records if the temperature on the surface passed 120°F, 129°F, 140°F, 149°F, or 160°F * a Wahl 444-120F permanently records if the temperature on the surface passed 120°F, 140°F, 160°F, or 180°F
Wiring up my chargepoint home flex, I was initially going to hardwire it in, but the clip type lugs they use in the unit would barely hold the #6 wire. you could pull it out with very little effort.
Hi Tom. I use a Tesla Mobile charger for day to day use plugged into a 14-30 nema outlet. You didn’t speak about lower current 240v charging in your video. Any advice? I ran a direct line of 10 gauge wire using an ordinary 14-30 outlet.
I charge my Tesla on a 120v outlet in my apartment garage using the Tesla mobile connector. The connector would always throw an error on at 12 amps and automatically back down to 6 amps. Setting the car to draw 9 amps keeps it from throwing an error. Works fine for me.
That’s a sign something is probably wrong with the outlet. Perhaps it’s got loose connections, or it’s wired using those awful push-in connectors. I would report the problem to the apartment owner.
I have solar panels from Solar Edge that has an outlet on the Inverter made for charging an EV. The system generates up to 7.9 kw. I use that to Level 2 charge my vehicle. If the sun is out, the solar panels boost the charge to about 9.7 kw from just under 8kw. This avoided the need to put a charger in my garage. Has anyone had experience with charging this way? I charge me car outside and, since the cable is long enough, I am wondering if it is safe to charge the car from the solar panels while it is in the garage.
Why are install cost$ so high? Has anyone tried the Qmerit cost estimator for the electrical work related to installing an EV charger? $800 seems high to me for adding 40A circuit breaker to my fairly new box and installing a few feet of cable and conduit along the same wall as the panel. I received a similar quote when directly contacting an electrician. This can't be more than 2 hours of work.
Most of it depends on the wire run. I would also add: No matter how your charging cable was wired, it is always best to use the lowest amperage rate that will charge your EV to the amount you want when you want it. The higher the amperage the higher the potential for a failure. With any loose or corroded connection (Breaker to bus bar, wire to terminal, outlet to plug) the connection will heat up and could cause a meltdown. The more you plug your car in, the less amperage you will need to draw. I would not put a charging cable that will draw more than 20 amps on a breaker or an outlet (especially not connected through a sub panel, too many connections). I always use a fused disconnect tied directly to the main wires coming from the meter.
Page 10 of the ChargePoint Home Flex Installation Guide states that the largest size wire the terminals of the CPH50 can accept is 16mm2 (6awg) and the unit is rated for 50amp with a 70 or 80 amp breaker and 48amp with a 60amp breaker. ChargePoint appears to conflict with your #6 awg recommended limits. Does this mean that according to the code the ChargePoint Home flex should be limited to a 50amp circuit and is at maximum a 9.6kw unit?
You can use #6 wire, just not #6 ROMEX wire on the CP home flex. Using #6 THHN wire in plastic or metal conduit is fine. And if you're really following the code, you can only charge at 48-amps with that. the CP Home Flex can actually deliver up to 50-amps, but if you pull 50-amps, you need #4 wire. However, only a couple of vehicles can currently accept more than 48-amps. (Lucid Air, F-150 Lightning, Cadillac Lyriq, and some older Teslas that had the dual onboard charger option)
Since the ChargePoint Home Flex will not accommodate #4 AWG they should not indicate a max load of 50amp providing 37miles/60kms per hr in their documentation. It should be limited to 48amps and a 60amp breaker size.@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney
I actually had my electrician install a Hubbell HBL9367 receptacle and purchased the 6-50 2 pole 3 wire grounded version of The ChargePoint Home Flex and have limited the current to 40 amps or 9.6 kWh using #6 awg copper wire and a 50 amp breaker.
@@bobstevenson4396 No matter how your charging cable was wired, it is always best to use the lowest amperage rate that will charge your EV to the amount you want when you want it. The higher the amperage the higher the potential for a failure. With any loose or corroded connection (Breaker to bus bar, wire to terminal, outlet to plug) the connection will heat up and could cause a meltdown. The more you plug your car in, the less amperage you will need to draw. I would not put a charging cable that will draw more than 20 amps on a breaker or an outlet (especially not connected through a sub panel, too many connections). I always use a fused disconnect tied directly to the main wires coming from the meter.
I have a leviton melt using a 40 Amp juicebox charger that not a single time got disconnect and the one side that melted was still tight not loose at all, and one time my parents had a disconnect melted at a central inside unit and after installed a 100 amp breaker box with for 2 breakers that has aluminum wire and never had a issue after, but ac disconnects have same issues as the outlets
Over time moisture in the air can corrode metal connections which increases resistance leading to a possible meltdown. Most disconnects have more surface area contact for all connections and their is typically a conductive gel protection the connections from corrosion. A good ac disconnects will have far less potential for failure when compared to outlets. You may want to routinely check your aluminum wire connections.
I bought the Emporia charger and we ran 6 gauge wire because that's what the installation guide says to use. If I set it to charge at 40amps, I should be fine? Inspector is coming out tomorrow.
If a nemia 14-50 is not ment to be plugged in and out alot then why do they use the for rv outlets and my charging equipment have a built in ground falt protection
No outlet will last forever when plugged in and out constantly, even you 120 volt home outlets go bad. But commercial grade outlets will certainly last longer with plugging in and out cycles.
What about #8 Romex for a 50A circuit? Or does that need THHN too? I’ve never seen THHN run without conduit, so that means you have to run conduit from breaker to socket? Seems very commercial grade…metal conduit might aid heat dissipation (the true enemy) but flex might be worse. Granted right now I’m charging a Leaf (28A max) on the 50A NEMA plug, #8 Romex and a 40A breaker so should be safe.
One big question for your guest is load sensing/sharing devices like a load miser to save from having to do a full service upgrade. Do they use or suggest them to save the costly upgrade of a panel? I would hope that Ev charger installations are not a cash cow for electrical contractors that look for panel upgrade work.
😂 Laughing at myself here. I made a rather long reply to another thread- to collect my thoughts- per se. Now this one is long too. 😢 I have been doing electrical work for 30 years in everything from industrial to residential. I have no choice but to install an outdoor receptacle, and use a portable charger. Other people may be in the same situation. My problem is theft, so I need a lockable weatherproof in use box, a camera, and a shotgun. Your video has given me some ideas about materials that I might not have had before, so thank you. I’m going to try to condense this in case it will help someone in a similar situation. First off, I want to agree to disagree with Qmerit’s video. At one point it shows a newly installed 4” square box with an outlet in it. Whether that box was installed inside or outside as the video makes it appear- I do not advise anyone to install a 14-50 in a 4” box, or even in a flush plastic wall box. Either use a weatherproof RV box, or modify a 6x6x4 box to accommodate the receptacle. These larger enclosures will allow heat from the conductors to dissipate. Larger enclosures will also make it easier for larger conductors to be installed. I also disagree that GFCI breakers cause nuisance trips. I’ve had a lot of experience with these, and a properly installed/manufactured GFCI will not trip unless there is a situation that causes it to trip. The nuisance is that you must find the cause, loose connection, etc, and fix it. ALWAYS use #4 copper wire for any EV installation- including hardwired chargers- request it if you have to. DIYers, search ‘NEC wire insulation table’. Note at the top of the table it says these ratings were determined at 30C (86F) ambient temperature. There is a code that the temperature ratings for a circuit must be the same as the lowest rated part of the circuit. I have never seen a screw terminal (hardwire) rated for 90C (THHN) therefore you must use the 75C chart regardless of the wire insulation you use. That is your starting point, and then apply ambient temperature formula to reduce the allowable amps of your installation. In layman’s terms, always use #4 wire for ANY EV installation unless you live in Iceland, and your install is in the shade. An oversized wiring install in an oversized enclosure will last longer. BEWARE of 14-50 outlets, or disconnects with 60C rated terminals. If no rating is provided, then it is assumed to be 60C. I was disappointed that the best outlet manufacturer wasn’t mentioned, nor how to identify a good outlet from a bad outlet. Many places online will recommend Hubbel, as I do, but Bryant is a generic Hubbel. What you want to look for is inside the outlet- where the pins go in the outlet- see what the contacts look like. Ideally you’re looking for a reddish color. Depending on how often you plug in, you might want to consider replacing the outlet yearly instead of merely tightening the terminals. IF it ever feels loose, then replace BEFORE use!!! For my install, I’m searching for the largest lockable RV outdoor box I can find. I’m also considering installing a weatherproof cover inside the box to prevent dust from getting into the outlet from the hole in the bottom for the cord. If you can’t find a 14-50 specific WP cover, then a 2 gang WP cover should provide enough space to cover the outlet and close. Choose the dual GFI or rectangular outlet version and just cut out the middle between the openings. I recommend building for the heaviest use case even if you aren’t going to use the equipment that way, in other words, build for 48 amps at 45C, even if you are only going to charge at 32 amps at 30C ambient temperature. I also recommend following this procedure for tightening the terminals on the outlet- Use a screwdriver that perfectly fits the slot, tighten down the wire, back off the screw until the top 2 threads are exposed, apply a drop of blue thread lock, tighten down again. Tom did a great job. Considerations for an electrical installation are difficult to discuss for all use cases. Even recommending an electrician doesn’t mean that the install will be worry free because not all electricians can explain their reasoning without going into Dad Speak : Do it like this because I said so. I can’t even explain everything in this format- like the burnt wire nuts Tom showed from his friend’s installation. Wire nuts are not good in this high heat use case, but it would take me a large paragraph to explain how to properly use and insulate split bolts. I will be happy to address this use case if anyone is interested, but for now I just want to list a few safety considerations for the use case of installing an outlet for an outdoor portable charger so that DIYers can be safe. In Summary: 1) Choose a large weatherproof in use enclosure. 2) Shade the enclosure, or only use when not in direct sunlight. 3) Use #4 copper wire 4) Use Bryant or Hubbel outlets, keep one on hand to replace if loose. 5) Cover outlet to prevent dust inside a WP in use enclosure. 6) Turn off power to the outlet when plugging or unplugging.
I agree with most of what you wrote, however, I would add: 7) No matter how your charging cable was wired, it is always best to use the lowest amperage rate that will charge your EV to the amount you want when you want it. The higher the amperage the higher the potential for a failure. With any loose or corroded connection (Breaker to bus bar, wire to terminal, outlet to plug) the connection will heat up and could cause a meltdown. The more you plug your car in, the less amperage you will need to draw. 8) I do not know of any main service panel that was designed to handle the high current and long duration of EV charging. I would not put a charging cable that will draw more than 20 amps on a breaker or an outlet (especially not connected through a sub panel, too many connections). I always use a fused disconnect tied directly to the main wires coming from the meter.
Tom, just finished the video. I have a Bolt EUV and a Tesla. I thought about installing a hard wired charger but I decided to take GM up on the free 14-50 outside install. A Qmerit certified electrician did the install. The receptacle is on a dedicated 60 amp breaker. I am retired and only charge each car once a week. Your thoughts on the wear and tear on the receptacle vs someone who charges 5-7 days a week. I live in Delaware.
No matter how your charging cable was wired, it is always best to use the lowest amperage rate that will charge your EV to the amount you want when you want it. The higher the amperage the higher the potential for a failure. With any loose or corroded connection (Breaker to bus bar, wire to terminal, outlet to plug) the connection will heat up and could cause a meltdown. The more you plug your car in, the less amperage you will need to draw.
Great video Tom. I was wondering if you ever got the Ford Pro Charger installed with the home backup. I just got my Lightning and want to know more about it. Thanks.
@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Thanks I saw it. Great work. I'd love a service upgrade bu my transformer and utilities are buried in a cul de sac. Too expensive to do. But at least I got my "Free" pro charger.
When I buy a portable EVSE, I'm doing it so I can plug into a 220v dryer plug at a friend's home for an occasional visit; once or twice a year. Since an existing dryer plug might really be old (even though it's being used weekly for an electric clothes dryer), it might not be capable of continuous duty for EV charging (connections loosening over time). If there is a 30 amp breaker I should be able to draw 24 amps for EV charging. For best safety, should I charge at 20 or 16 amps so we don't overheat the wiring or connectors? I'd only be doing this infrequently a few times a year. Looking for practical advice.
Given your recommendations in this video is it still OK to use a Splitvolt splitter to share your dryer plug to charge your EV since there are still plugs involved?
If you are direct wiring a charging device are you required to have a disconnect close to your charging device? You are also not required to have a GFIC breaker if it is direct wired?
I do not know of any main service panel that was designed to handle the high current and long duration of EV charging. I would not put a charging cable that will draw more than 20 amps on a breaker or an outlet (especially not connected through a sub panel, too many connections). I always use a fused disconnect tied directly to the main wires coming from the meter.
Awesome video Tom. I have a Tesla 48amp wall charger, hard wired on a dedicated 50 amp breaker that was done after I upgraded to a 200amp service. There is still alot of unused capacity. My question is, as you know on the Tesla app you can set to charge much lower that the max, ex. 20 amp. This takes longer to charge the car to 90% (DM none LFP batteries) but some comments on forums are saying you should do this its better for the batteries and the wires wont get as hot during charging. I don't believe Tesla says this. What are your thoughts? Recently videos are stating the wall charger has even more capacity but its not enabled yet...
No matter how your charging cable was wired, it is always best to use the lowest amperage rate that will charge your EV to the amount you want when you want it. The higher the amperage the high the potential for a failure. With any loose or corroded connection (Breaker to bus bar, wire to terminal, outlet to plug) the connection will heat up and could cause a meltdown.
supercharging is around 250 kwh. 240 32A is around 7 kwh. There is no benefit to charging so lower as the batteries can handle way more speed. From extensive posts, it seems 32A is the best efficient charging rate and it wont harm battery in any way.
Not sure if someone asked but what do you recommend as a good Tesla model 3 charger and should it be installed inside the garage or outside? This is for my first Tesla. Thanks
