How To Set Up Clipless Pedals - MTB Pro Tips

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Are you thinking of switching to clips on your mountain bike? This video covers everything from positioning your cleats to finding the best clipless pedal for you.
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Mountain bike cleats are typically fixed to your shoe using a 2-bolt system. Experimenting with the position of the cleat on your shoe will help you find the best fit for your style of pedalling.
With manufacturers like Crank Brothers, you can also adjust the amount of 'float' you have. This is how much you can twist your foot before unclipping from the pedal.
Finally, different pedal shapes will suit different riders. Downhill riders tend to prefer flat pedals which can offer better 'feel' through your shoe, while XC riders tend to prefer slimmed down pedals which weigh less and offer a more concentrated contact point.
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1 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 213

@GogglesTyresandTrainers 9 лет назад

When you get the cleats onto the shoes in the right position i find that by dripping melted wax into the allen bolt head it is easier to remove in future as the wax, once hardened prevents stones and dirt getting jammed in

@macdontcare 9 лет назад

Great tip!

@Dani_Mitrich 7 лет назад

Классный совет!

@BranGrizz 7 лет назад

smart.

@jonoblinger9918 5 лет назад

Thanks!

@Rexy888 4 года назад

I just weld them with a stick welder

@PlaidHiker 9 лет назад

I strongly suggest green bolt lock on cleat bolts, having a bolt fall out in the middle of the day in horrible.

@suchgr8hieghts 8 лет назад

i just run a large bolt all the way through the soles of an old pair of running sneakers and into the crank. works flawlessly and saved a ton of money. and oh, have my laces loose incase i gotta bail.

@gmbn 8 лет назад

Send us a photo to dirtshed@gmbn.com We need to see that bodge!

@edog1955 6 лет назад

saves money, but you still have a flexible sole. the bike shoes have stiff soles so that we get better transfer of energy to the pedals.

@clemj7928 5 лет назад

I just bought some clipless shoes at Decathlon for 40 bucks lol

@dyzoly 4 года назад

Come on, you guys, he's just joking :))))

@Orihe 9 лет назад

First time and only time i tried clipless, i fitted them way to tight went out for a blast clipped in fine couldn't get my feet out and ended up breaking my arm HaHa - flats for life!

@davidsuzukiispolpot 6 лет назад

I just had my first ride with the egg-beaters instead of my usual multi-release Shimano. I went too slow thinking about which way to go, fell over, did not get my foot out (forgot different cleats). Smashed my hand on a root. Now it will be a while before I can ride again. Thinking of taking off my CB egg-beaters when I heal and can ride, so I don't ruin my season with another bout of stupidity.

@carlosa.sanchez896 3 года назад

Excellent presentation, covering all the key points of pedal-cleat dynamics. I'm not a fan of Crank Bros, prefer Shimanos, but that's a matter of trial and error to find what suits you best. The only thing he left out is spend $25-30 for a simple torque wrench. Aside from the fact most crucial connections on a bike have recommended torque settings to tighten to, cleats should be at 5-6 N-m (Newton-meters). I have a Venzo wrench that flexes and has a pinpoint over a numbered scale, but got lazy in using it to check my shoe's cleats. Last week, I lost one on a ride, fortunately when finishing up and no fall. I replaced both cleats and was shocked at how loose the left shoe's cleat bolts were! It was close to beginning to loosen, like the right shoe had done. Your other surprise will be at how much you need to crank those bolts down to reach 5-6 N-m, it feels like you're way overdoing it, but you're not. Lesson learned, I'm gonna check those suckers once a month.

@ktrock77 3 года назад

Yeah, I've tightened stuff reasonably only to have them come loose. Now I make sure everything is overtightened.

@js615 9 лет назад

Would be good to have discussed the different pedal/cleat type options as well (SPD etc)

@zbillster 4 года назад

Is there a version of this video in English?

@skyffed8853 4 года назад

bruh this is english video -__-

@josem2701 8 лет назад

Great tips!! Personally I used the tip of pointing the cleat a bit towards the toe and this makes it easier for me to disconnect. Tested it yesterday and felt more prepared to unclip! Great channel keep up with the fantastic videos you post!

@prattmandu Год назад

Not helpful :( You're assuming the cleats are starting with the metal mounting bracket already in the shoe. I'm starting BEFORE that step. I don't know how to mount the metal bracket in the shoe. Once I do that this video would be helpful.

@DavidMcGinn-wj2dk Год назад

It went together easily in less than an hour. ru-vid.comUgkxHL1v1R3NE5x4KiYfyt8dnQmyNYz7qi5L Make sure the front fork is forward or the pedals will hit the front tire. Tires are both a little soft so it needs air before I ride it. The rear wheel didn't come with a clamp regular bolts hold it on. The front had the clamp. No scratches out of box. Rims are a little off with a slight wobble. They could have spent more time with the spoke tool fixing the run out. So far out of the box I'm happy with it. I did replace the pedals with a nice aftermarket set. After riding it a bit my A$$ is a bit sore so I ordered another seat. Overall I'm nearly 60 and didn't ride a bike in 30 years. I like my new 29" Schwinn. It will be used for casual rides with my friend.

@wrarmatei 4 года назад

I'm so happy that Crankbros finally ditched the fucking brass cleats.

@bsh_korea 3 года назад

at 2:18 why right shoe has 15 degree and left shoes relaese at 20 degree... may i have explanation for this?

@malcglen4730 4 года назад

Great vid - I've been riding clipless for a while and the tip about moving the cleat backwards makes a huge difference!

@keiztrat 2 года назад

In a good way?

@malcglen4730 2 года назад

@@keiztrat Definitely!

@diegovillacrez8349 4 года назад

I just realized why aren't the called strapless pedals???

@blauseng00superduty 9 лет назад

Great video like always.I wanna try clipless,really getting sick of sliding off my platform pedals.

@blauseng00superduty 9 лет назад

***** I also don't feel fast either with platform pedals cause I'm always adjusting my feet.That's the main reason I want clipless.

@davidsuzukiispolpot 6 лет назад

The Shimano 520 with the model 56 multi-release cleats are inexpensive, bullet-proof, and easy to release from. I wish I never tried my CB egg-beaters.

@peterechavez6363 5 лет назад

Hi! How do you install the pedals? Should the narrower part of clip be on the front side? Or to the back?

@rhobyarendelegue4872 Год назад

Any answers?

@kylewainwright9122 8 лет назад

Hey GMBN! What is the difference between a shoe such as a fiveten or giro and a shimano SH-AM45? Thanks!

@mickdundee4638 8 лет назад

Nothing at all, you can have Shimano pedals with giro shoes. It's all preference

@evanhintsa1271 8 лет назад

If your screw falls out of your cleat then unclip your other shoe.

@dyzoly 4 года назад

Depends on the moment when you realise it's loose :))))

@cortscooldominos 9 лет назад

Hey Global Mountain Bike Network. I have the Giro Terraduro shoe in a size 46 and I am running the Crankbrothers Mallet 2 pedals. Even with my cleat moved all the way over if I am at the bottomstroke of my pedal I can't unclip because of my sole hitting against the crankarm. You mentioned getting some pedal extenders to move the pedal out away from the crankarm a bit more. Do you know of any you would recommend and that would work with the 8mm allen key that Crankbrothers pedals use?

@michaeldoncando1741 7 лет назад

kelly jorgensen i have the same problem with my terraduro

@michaeldoncando1741 7 лет назад

And mallet

@kroketas80 8 лет назад

Hi there ;-) I have a question about how much power you can get from riding in these SPD clip-less pedals vs regular platform pedals ? Thanks !

@HagakureJunkie 5 лет назад

I noticed a big difference in efficiency, I resisted going clipless until recently, it has made a world of difference in my riding.

@rumberitoboricua 8 лет назад

Any particular reason to choose Crank Brothers?

@rp003.0 8 лет назад

Sponsorship

@jovanmagyaya8329 7 лет назад

why is it calledclipless ?? wtf it has clips!!

@gmbn 7 лет назад

Because back in the day when everyone used toe clips, new spd shoes didn't have toe clips. Hence clipless. Confusing we know...

@m00nchildblues 6 лет назад

Have the 510 Maltese Falcon clipped w CB mallet E w shim underneath. I having a super hard time unclipping on both shoes to where I'm almost twisting my shoe off! Rare days they work fine but MOST days they are impossible to unclip and I have to fall down and twist my foot on the ground to take them off! Love the clip in and locked in feel but unclipping forget it, fell a few down 2-4' drops! HELP PLEASE or SPD Shimano xt I go!

@tomunayu 8 лет назад

my crank bro cleats don't quite look like that. I don't have side to side adjustment. they came with my brand new egg beater 3s. what's the deal? am I being stupid

@lukemalecka3303 8 лет назад

I want to got some DH clipless shoes, but I don't know which ones are good. I would like a flat soled shoe that looks a little more casual. I'm trying to keep it under $110 USD

@jtaraiza2480 8 лет назад

look at the five ten clipless shoe...$130 USD

@jovendumayas1698 2 года назад

Is the black spacer optional?

@m00nchildblues 6 лет назад

dont get it, why would only one cleat have the dots on the bottom, why wouldn't they have them on both? Im having a hard time on my left coming out, but super easy on my right? Can't I have both come out with same degree or tension? thank you

@carlosguyvidrios6298 6 лет назад

thank to you all' I push 20 35 miles night & day try to get more out my legs & my shoes' here to you all make a day to ride to Huntington beach pier hun back 2016 from El Monte took 5 1/2 hr today take less Hr I actually broke 7000 miles in Dec 15, 2017, I appreciate all Mr. V.

@francescocrea525 2 года назад

Will this bike help me lose weight??

@rajgill7576 4 года назад

Is it okay if my cleats slide a little? One thread out of the 2 on one shoe was super sticky and crunchy brand new and the cleats a little loose for it

@johnbradbury3377 7 лет назад

What MTB shoes can I wear with crankbrothers pedals?

@stephenkohler3472 6 лет назад

John Bradbury Any that have the little treaded cleat mounts already in the sole... some have that section covered by a removable rubber tab but you can see the outline easily.

@kuterv 8 лет назад

Is it not better to use flat shoes for technical stuff and downhill ? normally use my clipless boots but it seems like a fail and fall more when I am using those.

@tjgraham3597 4 года назад

what about greasing the cleat threads? Just like pedal spindles ungreased cleat threads can cause a big problem when you can't get them out when you go to replace the worn out cleat

@davidsuzukiispolpot 6 лет назад

Is there a reason to not use thread-locker 242 when attaching the cleats to the shoes? It will address the corrosion issue and decrease the likelihood of losing a bolt, which is very dangerous as you can't release from the pedal if the cleat rotates with the pedal.

@petergregson6325 9 лет назад

Didn't you guys say you were going to make a video on Marc's gambler on the dirt shed show one time?

@doublen675 8 лет назад

Great advice, thank you and I totally agree with your preference.

@tomwhitehouse5830 8 лет назад

I pretty much centered my cleats in a shimano shoe and set the pedal tension in the middle have had no problems unclipping but my climbing is heaps better than with flats [ mind you xtrainers and stock pedals with good pins ]

@ccc369 4 года назад

Any tips on setting up the actual pedal mate? How tigh/loose etc - not the clip but the pedal-to crank

@jjelambi 8 лет назад

Grettings from Venezuela, I've been looking out to buy a DH style shoe like the chamber or a five ten my concern is clip in climbing does it climb well ??

@DotAHuskarMaster 8 лет назад

I have spd's.Can I loosen the tension of the springs all the way?I mean all the way down really so that I know that the tension of both pedals are equal when I tighten them back.

@gmbn 8 лет назад

Not necessarily just adjust both pedals to a point where you feel comfortable.

@ravynx 7 лет назад

I couldn't find a clipless shoe wide enough to accommodate my feet so I swapped over to flats and FiveTen VXi Freerider shoes. Even FiveTen's clipless shoes were too narrow for me. I'm sticking with flats until I can find an appropriately wide enough shoe. I was running the XC-style Shimano style pedals and I think I'd benefit from having a clipless platform pedal as well. Those Giro Chamber shoes look nice though.

@oliverpemberton6625 7 лет назад

Shimano am45

@Zanda99 7 лет назад

Anyone got advice on knee pain. I'm running SPDs and can't stop the pain at the top of my knee caps. Cheers

@gmbn 7 лет назад

Try adjusting the position of your cleats to make your feet straighter on the pedals - if it gets bad or worse consult a medical professional!

@Zanda99 7 лет назад

I'll give that a try, nice one thanks 👍

@fatbikefreak5962 9 лет назад

I ride clipless most of the time on my Fat Bike...

@TeodorKubena 6 лет назад

They are called clipless because you are not clipping in right?...

@4punk2zilla0 9 лет назад

I use Crankbrothers on my road bike because they are awesome pedals. Haters gonna hate, I just keep rolling lol.

@jvlienj 9 лет назад

lot of enduro riders in EWS ride with "cross country shoes, pedals.."

@Beelcibub 9 лет назад

I'm confused there clip-LESS but you clip in 😕 And what's the difference between Clipless, toeclips, flats, pedals and straps? I see people taking about 5 and I'm just confused or are there only three kinds clipless, pedals and straps?

@gmbn 9 лет назад

Juan Delgado Hey Juan, Ok I can see your confusion here is what most people use, Flats, Clips or Clipless or perhaps even SPDS (Shimano's original clip in system) the system with the metal clip on your shoe that connects to the pedal. Lastly toe straps or toe clips are old fashioned and I would stay well clear!! Hope thats clears it up for you thanks, Marc

@alenakoriavaya7347 7 лет назад

My SPD cleats shift when I unclip from the bike. Is it normal? Any recommendations?

@Tommy-qm8um 9 лет назад

Hey Marc! Do you have to run the spacers with the chamber shoes and the dh mallet? Or does it fit right without? Please let me know, cheers

@rabs2020 7 лет назад

I just bought a pair and coming from flat pedals need some getting use to but actually very easy to learn

@manuelcobian2355 7 лет назад

what do you thing its better cranbrother pedal or xtr or easy to use

@alriverald 6 лет назад

Amigo, the word for distant is farther and not further.

@magorbarocz2196 9 лет назад

How about performance? Is there any downside if I put my cleats almost all the way back?

@gmbn 9 лет назад

Magor Bárócz It's tough to say, there is some evidence to suggest that you produce slightly less power because you aren't using your calves quite as much. I would try it and if you don't like it, move them back. I see it help a lot of people with technical riding, cheers, Neil

@Ryltar123 9 лет назад

I'm personaly riding more out of saddle (well i'm trying at least) and when i have cleats in "standard" position (at front) my feets will hurt after some time.But when i have them all the way back it's fine i can ride quite long with cleats in that position.Also it's fiting my riding style more and i feel like i'm having more power out of saddle.

@tolli4919 9 лет назад

Magor Bárócz if you ride with the cleats all the way back, like Neil says, you'll have to work with higher force. it may feel better for riding downhill. on the long run however, you will degrade your knee joints, because of the unnatural foot position. try not having the cleats too far back. in line with your big toes (one the left right axis), and under the big toe joints (on the forward back axis) should be optimal

@jordanwombat7181 9 лет назад

I am at the stage of changing to cliped pedals, i am just trying to find out the right style of shoe. Wondering if you could help?

@Spazamazz 9 лет назад

Shimano m089 is nice. Best bet is to go to your local shop and try some on

@HepticGaming 8 лет назад

How do you loosen it so you can clip out easier?

@rp003.0 8 лет назад

Allen key on the pedals

@davidsuzukiispolpot 6 лет назад

Not for the CB egg-beaters pictured. I don't think there is a way to decrease the release tension - other than some wear by use.

@tiaanrabe8175 3 года назад

Whats the torque on the bottom screws on the cleats?

@marissalynlorzano2753 9 лет назад

Hey gmbn can i use shimano cross country spd shoe in cb candy 3?

@swz1986 3 года назад

That embarrassing situation you mentioned happened to me lol 😆

@evanmtb4511 4 года назад

I run XC shoes with DH pedals, but the stiffness and how well it holds is insane. Don’t knock it till ya try it.

@JasonBowman121 9 лет назад

Good simple video. I run my cleat all the way back and I still pedal with my toes down. I also have to rotate mine so my feet are a bit displayed. With the cleat in line with the shoe, my peddling rotation had my knees moving side to side and caused severe knee pain. Slight adjustment of the rotation and now my knees go strait up and down and without pain! Keep up the good work and enjoy your channel! !

@rumberitoboricua 8 лет назад

Sorry I meant Shimanos, your video shows Crank Brothers. I have friends that live or die by one or the other.

@gmbn 8 лет назад

+rumberitoboricua here at GMBN we use CrankBrothers!

@binamamon9430 6 лет назад

It is possible to make diy cleats shoes?

@328skidpad 4 года назад

Great video your explanation really helped me determine what angle fit best..

@AbdulHafiz-sk4hs 8 лет назад

what about riding dh? how do setup my cleats position?

@CrazyCyclingVlogger 9 лет назад

If the clip fits...

@andyjoe81 8 лет назад

I'm kind of new to biking in general, and I'm trying to dive right in to multi day rail trail tours. I would imagine the cross country style is more ideal for that, since the rail trails aren't that technically demanding. Is that right, or is there a third style option you'd recommend?

@tripp7378 7 лет назад

andyjoe81 I

@Dr4g0nW00d 7 лет назад

learned another tips i didnt now i drive clips for seven years

@collinrodriguez9628 8 лет назад

Were those shoes the Giro Jackets? Ive wanted to get a pair, but it says that they are flat pedal shoes. I want to get a DH shoe with a clip. So, is the Giro Jacket a shoe that can clip into the pedals?

@gmbn 8 лет назад

+Collin Rodriguez Giro Chambers.

@collinrodriguez9628 8 лет назад

Ok, thank you

@meganwicaksono1362 9 лет назад

Can you guys make a video how to set up shimano cleats?

@jaspervanvlaslaer4520 9 лет назад

It's the same

@thomasmedeiros5722 6 лет назад

Megan Wicaksono Attachment is the same but it doesn’t matter which cleat is on right or left the lateral travel is the same. Two important things you should know about Shimano cleats. First the lateral ( side) travel is less so they release sooner. Second you can buy the SH 56 M cleat which release in multiple directions. The pedals come with the SH 51 single release cleat. If you are concerned about release when falling go with Multi release SH56 M. I have used Shimano SPD system for twenty years and use the multi release cleat on my trail riding shoes. I prefer the single release cleat on my road shoes. This video was sponsored by Crank Brothers so their was no information on other brands and their release mechanism. And yes I do occasionally pull out of my pedal with the SH56 M but it is a good trade off for it’s release capability.

@thatchman9605 6 лет назад

Is there a way to make clipless shoes?

@LMurphy789 5 лет назад

Any hacks on replacing the cleat in the exact same place as the previous cleat? Are the tiny bumps on the cleat for that purpose? Like do they dig into the shoe and make ridges so you can change them easier in the future?

@imneveruploadinghere7180 2 года назад

A sharpie should do the trick for marking the current position of your cleats

@zaydenv7497 9 лет назад

Could you ride the downhill pedals without cleats?

@gmbn 9 лет назад

zayden v No, I wouldn't recommend it. They aren't designed to have enough grip on normal shoes.

@Bigred10101 9 лет назад

zayden v If you get a specific flat pedal (my personal favorite is the raceface atlas) and a grippy shoe is pretty good on dh sections.

@zaydenv7497 9 лет назад

Okay thanks :) I've been riding on flats forever but I tried clip less a few times and really like it but don't want to give up the flats. I just love the way they feel. I wanted pedals that I didn't have to change every time I wanted a to ride clip less or on flats. Are there such things?

@davidg1726 7 лет назад

i'm a bit late but there are pedals like the crank brothers double shot that have a place to clip in on one side and a flat side on the other.

@fadhilseptiawan2476 Год назад

A+++++++

@benholland6836 9 лет назад

Is there any way to make the springs tighter? My feet fell like they float and slide. Some times I unclip by accident. Ps keep up with the good work guys

@ThisGuyRides 9 лет назад

Ben Holland depends on the pedal. Yes for Shimano, no for the pedals shown in this video.

@caedenchapman5373 5 лет назад

I love my issi trail 2s, very adjustable.

@bcurt7834 7 лет назад

Just got my first pair of shimano 8020s because of you guys! Thanks for all the help and this guide. Made the transition smooth as can be. I love this channel! Neil, we have the same exact shoes for both flats and clipless. You must have good taste.

@gmbn 7 лет назад

Nice one! :)

@glennpettersson9002 4 года назад

Ahhhh! Now I see said the blind man as he waved his wooden leg👍😀

@renatgal2946 5 лет назад

Awsome! Thinking to start cliples this year. You guys help a lot. Thanks!

@orionvergara9875 9 лет назад

I ride flats and have been forever, however I'm wondering what my advantages on the trail would be. Would it be a good idea to switch and what's your opinion on toeclips?

@OvereatenPotato 2 года назад

You definitely gain power/efficiency in pedal strokes, but some people feel more comfortable on downhills will flat pedals.

@911sunkan 7 лет назад

Hi, what brand of shoes are you using with the downhill pedals? The one with a flat sole.? all the best :)

@keatoncampbell6483 3 года назад

yes

@jacob9534 8 лет назад

can you use the smaller crank brothers pedal without clip shoes

@gmbn 8 лет назад

+Jacob Oxley nope it's a clip pedal specific, we'd recomend going a Crank Brothers Stamp pedal...

@andyann5511 9 лет назад

what shoe is the white one

@leapfrog4561 8 лет назад

+Andy Ann mavic

@tlf. 5 лет назад

Wow Niel you sound soo different

@cameronparker-graham408 8 лет назад

What are the best shoes to start with

@wildlifecrazy7045 9 лет назад

i love your bike i just got a trail 3

@infojreid 9 лет назад

I love crankys

@nicoofner85 9 лет назад

I ride Trail/Enduro Five Ten Kestrel schoes. Crankbrothers Candy or Maller, what would you choose? Thanks!

@gmbn 9 лет назад

+Nico Ofner Hey Nico, Personally I would go for the Mallet E these are crankbrothers new Enduro pedals nice big platform for when you dab a foot and have to balance your foot until you can clip back in. Cheers Marc

@nicoofner85 9 лет назад

+Global Mountain Bike Network Thanks!

@ZeeBri 9 лет назад

Unfortunately Neil was involved in quite a big pile up today. He's fine but his van is in a bad way.

@user-zm7zl9lc6j 3 года назад

Wat

@fa28756 9 лет назад

will crank brothers mallet work with shimano cleats on shimano mt 23 shoes? thanks!

@gmbn 9 лет назад

+Finlay Anderson No Finlay, you need the cleats specific to the pedals you have. cheers MARC

@rumberitoboricua 8 лет назад

Greetings from sunny Puerto Rico! What about SPDs? Have you guys tried them?

@gmbn 8 лет назад

+rumberitoboricua hey!!! SPD's and Clipless pedals are the same!!

@spykirbine1689 8 лет назад

And how different is clip and clipless

@thomasgeorgebrun5344 7 лет назад

When you order clipless pedals on Amazon do they come with the parts for the shoe?

@caedenchapman5373 5 лет назад

Usually

@edvynmtb2257 5 лет назад

Where can I get the shoes

@damiansmith391 7 лет назад

15 degrees meaninflg easier release?

@evltwin984 5 лет назад

Clipful pedals

@willsnibson3195 9 лет назад

Thanks for doing another pedal video

@drewhayden9942 8 лет назад

I got my shoes stuck in my pedals any suggestions on how to fix that?

@keatoncampbell6483 3 года назад

don't get them stuck.

@tristansaucedo6395 9 лет назад

Cool!! 100000

@flexathillcrest1 7 лет назад

great video

@adriancostea9202 6 лет назад

How do I do an emergency eject with clipless?

@user-zm7zl9lc6j 3 года назад

You dont lol

@ernestocheguevara5405 8 лет назад

переведи братан

@robertjusic9097 9 лет назад

I want that Santa Cruz so bad,to bad I'm only 15 and dont have a lot of money :/ even though I was saving it for almost 5 years

@borajax007 9 лет назад

Robert Ri Try to find a simple job like a dishwasher for example. It all depends on the country and restaurant of course but from my experience it pays well.

@robertjusic9097 9 лет назад

Working on a pump as a window cleaner almost every year,also cleaning the house and family cars already and still:/ I migh actually tweet them,dont think it will work but i'l rather have a superb bike than the best tech you can have,there is nothing better than having a 3 hour drive into the woods to loosen my mind :)

@robertjusic9097 9 лет назад

Nomad is about $7000 and that's more than 1/3 of the average yearly paycheck people here in Croatia get :/ but yeah,orange carbon Nomad is pretty much my dream bike

@theotht 9 лет назад

Everyone has a dream bike,but you just gotta work hard if you want It bad

@PlaidHiker 9 лет назад

Robert Ri as much as it might suck, I would suggest to start off with a slightly lower end bike, something in the 2000- 5000 range. For what type of riding you might be doing, the difference wouldn't be worth the extra 3000 dollars. Look online, on websites like jensonUSA or Chainreactioncycles, and you could maybe catch an amazing deal on a amazing bike.