I hope we see his mom and he is killed her for all the things she did to him Because I’m tired of seeing abusive parents Get away with creating a monster now yeah he did all of the Killing but if you would have just love him like he wanted he would not be the way he is because Joe just clearly wants to be loved But he doesn’t know how to do it because he was never love that is why he killed. Beck and the rest of the people that he’s been with because when they say they don’t love him. It reminds him of the abandonment that his mom did. She left. Joe life. And that’s win dark Joe takes over completely. Him and Richard Ramirez are a little similar google Richard Ramirez childhood. And you will know what I’m talking about.😢😢 what a shame, how abusive parents turned your children into a monster, and get away with it
i think it would be awesome if they took inspiration from the better call saul ending, with joe ending up in a court trial with all the people he has hurt being present to testify against him and ultimately put him in jail for life. seeing tons of old characters come back like Ellie, Paco, and maybe even Sherry and Cary would be amazing and satisfying. i also hope he runs for mayor too, i’ve been thinking about this theory for a little bit and i’m glad you mentioned it because i think it would be an incredible plot for season 5!
Love returns and kills Joe i know i know it's insane but in season 4 Joe speaks to a hit man hired by Ray Quinn and the hit man says about a bank account that Love had in season 3 my point is that i think that love knew that Joe was gonna kill her and the only thing that stopped him killing her was her being pregnant one of the thing's that the creators have done is bringing back charters from the last season like Marianne so maybe love has come back and MAYBE love somehow has Henry. And i think Nadia Ellie Kate Candace and Love all need justice and that justice has already started like Marianne not being dead by the end of season 4 sorry spoiler there but maybe there will be justice.
I want Joe to feel the consequences from his actions and unable to get out of it and finally get arrested, but also, I'm happy that season 5 is the final season as well.
@@cinekizzle But is it an embrace, or a takeover? We can interpret the visual of Joe staring at the reflection of Rhys playing into the darker half of his, but it could also be the other way around. Rhys could just be faking it all to appeal to everyone outside, parading as Joe. Why I believe this to be the case is simply because Joe tried to kill himself. So what if the one that came back wasn't Joe, but Rhys? It's all speculation, but it does play into the idea that throughout this journey, Joe has devolved into a crazy person, as one like him should. I think that season 5 will play into him trying to finally escape the cycle, while playing into the fact that he is now the villain.
I am thinking a cell, as someone who watched Hannibal I'd be thinking of their ideas, death of the character seems too simple, have to be more creative
I think a fitting ending would be Joe being consumed by his split personality disorder, and we see him descending in madness. In the end, he is hospitalized in a high security psychiatric hospital, in isolation, and he drives himself a bit crazier each day by establishing conversation, and plans to escape, with his different alter egos, ultimately losing touch with reality.
I kinda had this same idea but maybe while he’s in a psychiatric hospital he has a female therapist. She walks in and you just hear Joe think hello you with a little insane smile and the series ends.
@@TheEthanstanleyI thought about one like this but in prison and he spots a lady guard. Some weirdo monologue about her rough around the edges authoritative presence and then a cut to black.
I don't know but I would love a grand showdown with Ellie, Kate, Sherry, Cary, Nicky, Marriane, pako, pheobe and his mother in a court sequence or something so that every single alive person Joe has known his life can show him how terrible of a person he is.
I was just thinking this! A court sequence would be an amazing way for all his living victims to confront him because he’d have no way out. I could even see the whole second half of the season being dedicated to a court battle.
Yes! Personally I much prefer this idea to any theory that Beck or Love or whoever Joe killed having a whole "back from the dead" revenge story, let the dead stay dead and let the living take Joe down.
Since Penn said in an interview that they were hoping Jenna Ortega could be back for season 4 but she was busy filming Wednesday, im hoping she comes back in season 5
Kate sacrificing herself to take out Joe would be a beautiful character arc for the woman who just wanted to do something good for the world. I'm gonna be disappointed if this doesn't happen
Candace once said in the first episode of season 2: "If you go to jail, you'll go thinking you're a good man." I want Joe to go to jail, for sure, but I also want him to realize that he truly is a monster and no amount of denying will change that. Henry could be that catalyst, since it seems Henry is the one person Joe most likely truly loves. So imagine Joe goes to jail and rots there for a few years. Henry, now a teenager or adult, confronts his dad and after Joe tries to manipulate his own son to get him out, Henry just leaves. Joe is left staring at his own reflection, not even Rhys staring back at him.
Imagine if Kate is obsessed with Joe the same way Joe was obsessed with everyone? Love was kinda obsessed but at the same time she cheated on him with that one boy, so she just had personal issues. What if we realize Kate has been obsessed with Joe since before season 5 and we find out she knew about him killing everyone but she let it run its course because she was going to benefit from it. She seems like such a smart girl that i doubt she doesnt know who he really is, i genuinely think she is just willing to overlook everything for him. Season 5 could be the complete opposite of what we think and maybe Joe will be on the run the whole season from her power and obsession
I had actually considered the when I was making my Kate character analysis video, I thought maybe she even saw Joe kill Malcolm! (since she can see into his apartment too) but when I tried to explore that a little more, I just couldn't make it work when I rewatched the season :/ but maybe they change it up on us in season 5!
I have a few theories, here are my top 2 Kate: The ultimate big bad In this theory, Kate is aware of Joe’s dark past and she is okay with it because she’s even worse and the whole season while Joe thinks he is in control and he is the one in need of forgiving, Kate is actually far more evil having been trained by her dad. So because Joe, who isn’t used to being rich/ keeping up a wealthy persons appearance keeps making her look bad, Kate decides to kill him and lets him know she has known who he is because true evil recognises true evil. The ultimate nemesis In this ending Joe’s mother hears about him on the news and so reaches out to him seemingly wanting to reconnect (potentially because he’s rich now). Joe then gets angry at her for wanting to reconnect for such a shallow reason and we see him rage kill or something and while he’s distracted by feeling rejected by his mother again she captures him and puts him in his own cage and we are good about his childhood from her POV where we realise he wasn’t mistreated or downtrodden but genuinely always evil and just when we think she’s about to kill him she rejects him in the most ultimate way, calling the police on him and watching him be dragged away. By the end of this ending he has no one on his side as even Kate realises he was evil as she’s been told the full truth (unlike the filtered version he told her in this particular ending) and he goes to trial seeing all the characters from his past he’s wronged. He’s still desperately trying to spin the narrative in his head that none of this is his fault until Henry finally comes in and tells his dad in some monologue how he sees his dad for what he truly is, which is a monster, leaving Joe to sit in this realisation. With nothing left to hide behind, the last shot of the show is Joe seeing his own reflection (implying he doesn’t even need to see Reese, his evil self and his other self are now one in his minds eye) and staring at it saying “hello, you.” Fade to black.
I do like the ending of the second one you described where he only sees himself in his reflection and I like the idea of ending the series on a "hello you" as it's become so iconic of the show at this point
I think it’s important to remember that Kate doesn’t know everything yet, she probably just thinks joe did some “bad yet justifiable things” and probably she is ready to overlook whatever he did wrong because she is desperate for someone to make her feel better and be close to her, but what could happen is that the survivors from the last seasons somehow reach out to Kate and tell her everything so that she realises she is actually crazy, joe ands up alone and is inevitably defeated. I don’t know this would make sense but it would be a bit “basic” what I would really like is for Kate to be his ultimate martyr and for her to stalk him and eventually kill him.
Every season Joe has left something over that could potentially come back and haunt him. Season 1 Dr. Nicky and Paco both knew what Joe did, and he left a jar of urine at Peach’s house. Season 2 Ellie went away knowing he killed Henderson, and that cop knew Joe had Henderson’s headphones on the night he was murdered. Season 3 Sherry and Cary both survived him. Season 4 Nadia saved Marienne and once they get in touch again they could find a way to expose Joe.
Also, Paco and his mother took off to California, which is of course where Joe spent seasons 2 and 3. I know it's a big state, but they could've sent those characters anywhere. Coincidence, or set up to the finale?
I would take Paco out of this equation because he Is probably the only One Who has something to be grateful to Joe, he would never betray him, like indeed he never did when Beck was asking for help from the library basement. As regards Ellie, Joe has Always given her economic support and Also he was not the One Who killed her sister, even in a wrong Way (cause he killed Henderson) he Actually cared about her so i don't know why She should be involved in taking Joe down . I would have imagined Ellie coming back to take Love Quinn down (Who was the real killer of her sister) but not Joe. She has never witnessed that Joe Is a sick person during Season 2, she hates him because he brought the Quinns in their lives but She has no elements to believe that Joe himself has to be stopped
My fear is even if it end with him in jail it ends with him obsessed with maybe another inmate or guard showing he’s not changed but is going to suffer though more delusions in jail.
I don't have a particular theory in mind because of how many possibilities there can be, I just trust the writers and hope that they can come up with a suitable ending for thus far a really good series.
My theory: Joe will start off by killing off Kate's corporate enemies, forms political friends, Kate discovers Joe killed her dad, Joe kills Kate, starts a relationship with a presidential candidate, she dies, he becomes President of the US, is interviewed and killed by Ellie. He dies remembering everything he has done to everyone. As he dies, we, the world are his YOU.
@@cinekizzle Considering he's been ascending the social ladder with each season, some significant corporate or political role seems inevitable for him. And how that ties into his relationship with Kate, other victims, his past, the world and his new obsession will be very interesting. Thanks for your vids ❤
yeah! as like a good cover to avoid suspicion because who would think somebody committing murder would purposefully draw so much attention to themselves, great catch!
Maybe Kate will cotton on to Joe subtly controlling her life, and not wanting to be with someone like her dad, frames him for something he didn't actually do, then we see him in jail running the book cart, and seeing a therapist who is coincidentally female, with it ending there...the unknown of will he ever escape and act out his latest obsession.
oooh that's really interesting, especially the detail of running the book cart. and yeah Kate definitely need to realize that Joe is exactly like her father, I'm gonna be so mad if she doesn't catch on
it would be interesting to see him have memories of Mooney again, and possibly have some sort of ending like him to tie in how he had become just like, or even worse, than the man who led him down his current path. i don't want joe to die some sort of dramatic death, and i think prison would just be..lackluster, really. maybe if he had some sort of big breakdown before it and now he's all the worst qualities of himself it could be interesting. but what i tyink could be very fitting is gonna suffering some sort of injury (like mr. mooney's stroke or the gunshot his mother's assaulter received), and he's left there with no one to come save him. whether that leaves him permanently damaged like Mr. Mooney or left to die on the ground, i think that would tie in how his behavior has led to his worst fears becoming true even in his last moments; being abandoned by everyone for good and truly being alone, no crutches to rely on and make him feel whole anymore.
Yeah I've seen some people wanting something like this. And I understand the angle, I think if he was left alone rather than having a carer it could work in a way.
I’d love to see them do season 5 in 2 parts again, part 1 will show Kate stalking him and collecting the evidence she needs against him, she then slowly gets in contact with all the victims (paco, Ellie, Marienne etc), then part 2 shows him starting in the courtroom the oh “oh you, why? Why you Kate?” - then episode by episode the important characters come up to tell THEIR story of Joe Goldberg, and we see all the different perspectives of his life. It would be nice to see people like Theo find out his dad was killed by joe too.
I think it will begin with Joe's evil side taking center stage as the potential antagonist, and it's really going to focus on how he's going to turn it back in the end. Kate is probably going to enable him with her money, but in doing so, it will create a rift in both her and Joe, which will eventually end with him trying to kill her. I would like to say that the prior characters that he had saved should all band together and find a way to stop him, since they'd experienced him at his worst and best. I think Ellie would be that starting point, and by the end of it, it will all fall onto Joe doing the right thing, and killing himself for good. It's sort of a jekyll and Hyde issue, so by the end of it, the only thing Joe can do to end this cycle of love and bloodshed is to simply close the book of his life, with the last few words being- Goodbye, You.
that is an interesting angle, "goodbye you" as he kills himself although he might be past that point by now. and I know they wanted to bring Jenna Ortega back in season 4 so maybe they manage to in season 5!
@@cinekizzle I can understand how it might be past the point of no return, but if we take our eyes off Joe and You as a whole, we can tell that might be the route taken, or atleast one that unites everyone as one against him. He will be the focal point of death, and so, we will be made to view him through the lense of everyone else. I can definitely get behind Jenna coming back, because they've literally planted these seeds in the form of people Joe has “saved”, and it would be pretty fulfilling for Jenna's character, since she was beginning her journey into becoming a filmmaker, so she could probably make a documentary movie on Joe at the end. It would be rather poetic that he'd end up being inspiration for those who've survived him. It was shown with Shelly and Cary, whom both garnered success from it.
I'm stuck between Joe getting arrested or winning. To be honest, I don't want him to die, I want him to live, and either of those options would suffice. I haven't thought too much about how he'd get arrested or win, but it would be interested to see past characters come back to make an appearance to put an end to the infamous murdering stalker and psychopath that we know as Joe Goldberg. I want Kate to be good as well, and I am quite glad she'll be the last "YOU," as I recall Penn saying in an interview that he believes she'll be the last one for good. I sincerely hope that is the case, but I also wouldn't be opposed to her being his partner in crime, where he may win with her by his side. Although he is deliberately insane, I also hope for the possibility that he does love Kate in some way, and indeed unlike any other. Additionally, I would only want him to do the murders, but she could cover them up in some way; however, I can see Joe wanting to cover up his own murders because of his pride for killing someone, now that he has accepted the killer inside of him. I hope to hell that he doesn't go after Henry either, because Henry shouldn't be placed into his care. If he is arrested, though, I hope they give us one last inner monologue of his while he's possibly being taken to his cell before the show ends. Those are my thoughts as of right now, for season five. I do hope the writers make this a memorable one.
yeah I think Joe wouldn't even need her help covering up the murders, he's done a pretty good job of it by himself so far. I think if they become partners in crime, I would want it to be because Joe pulls Kate into it, not because she starts it. Like I want her to try and be good and then he's a bad influence.
Ellie reads about “joe faked his death” and finds out about nadia, so she reaches out (like forty in season 2) and finds out all those secrets and goes to Marienne, then together they confront Joe and 🔪 him, OR they go to kate and tell her everything and she kills him herself
imagine if Joe starts sending Ellie money again now that he's back in the US, and she uses that money to pay for the trip to visit Nadia in jail and find Marienne and come back to take him down lol
I think we need to see the ending story of not just Joe and Kate, but with Paco, Ellie or maybe even Dr. Nicky I’d like to see one of them take him down. Or the couple that Joe gave his kid to.. I’d like to see some story follow-up
I would like to see some of those characters but I think I can do without Dr. Nicky, he basically walked away from Forty so I don't see him getting involved again
I really would like Joe to dabble in Politics since he craves adoration and he and Kate became a power couple and she would probably be on board with it since it's good for business and he was also obsessed with Rhys and his campaign .
@@cinekizzle Not really a spoiler, I promise! I ran through the fourth book as soon as it came out. But I like the idea of Joe in office, or atleast campaigning. Seems like a good vehicle for him to indulge in his “newfound” narcissism. And to hark back to AHS again, I can see him murdering to manipulate the public.
Lowkey your mayor of ny theory makes sense to me as well. Next year is political elections in the U.S., and the show usually has connections to what is happening in the world such as the covid and eat the rich references. Next year everyone will be talking about the presidential elections, so i can see them going for that theme. In the race for power, politicians usually dig up dirt from their competitors, so i can see that deep in the show during a speech, someone tries to expose joe and he gets super overwhelmed and starts strangling the person or something like that, causing a scene like Homelander or Captain America with killing someone in public and everyone just staring. The last 2 episodes could be the trial of Joe Goldberg and how even after all he has done, there are people willing to support him (such as the viewer of the show does, we see his kindness and tryin to be good but forget all the bad he has done.) In those ep’s, we can maybe get the Jenna Ortega cameo(she is too high value to appear the whole show, so i think a cameo is the best we will get lol), as she can be the main person fighting his case as she lost her sister. We could see cameo’s from all the seasons such as Joe’s library friend and Will Bethemheim supporting Joe, but people like Love’s mom and Ellie showing what a monster he is. I can see his trial being a televised trial such as the Johhny Depp and Amber Heard, people defending both sides until enough evidence is shown and he dies in Jail overnight for some reason. Maybe Dr Nicky or someone like that ends up killing him. It would be so crazy if Kate or the fans somehow make the verdict be innocent and he gets released free, just for his mom to kill him after Joe killed his brother(in the season). It would be a full circle on how the mom left him for her new family, but if Joe kills her son and his brother, i can see the mom not wanting a monster like that be free. Thanks to anyone who read this far😂
you really thought this out! I didn't even think about the timing of it being an election year, that would fit so well. and I can totally imagine the televised trial and Joe supporters, that's pretty realistic given what we've seen in real life these last few years
What if the whole season ends with us realizing Joe is in an institution for insane people, talking to people there as if they were understating all he said. They already gave us a plot twist where everything we saw wasnt as it happened, so my guess if that the whole You season 5 is gonna be told from Joe’s perspective in the asylum where he is being held. He could go truly off the rails there lol
i love the theory about 5th avenue, even if the politics thing doesn’t happen i still think that would be hilarious. what are your thoughts for who ‘you’ will be next season? if there will be a ‘you’ at all… i honestly hope ‘you’ is more metaphorical than literal next season. like ‘you’ is his mom but she’s dead and we slowly realize through his narrations and a series of flashbacks or lost memories he recovers through the season that he killed her. i think it would be such a cool subplot and would be great to keep me interested in what’s going on even more. also would be an awesome homecoming for joe’s last you to be his mom. there are so many different ways it could go and i honestly hope they reinvent the ‘you’ formula a little next season. like ‘you’ could just be him or you is someone but we have no idea who it is until the end and it’s revealed it’s his mom or it’s marienne and he knows she’s alive or something that would be super cool imo.
oh yeah, I've seen some people speculate over the years that he killed her! I think that could be interesting for her to be the 'you'. I don't think it'll be Kate, so if it's not his mom then it might be an entirely new character or he just becomes obsessed with himself since he's totally a narcissist. I think I would prefer for it to not be a love-interest obsession, I really liked the reveal that Joe had been obsessed with Rhys, showing that his obsession can take different forms
@@cinekizzle definitely agree, it would feel weird for his new you to be a new girl he likes since 1. it’s the last season and 2. i feel like we’ve exhausted the formula and should shake it up a bit for this ‘new’ joe. i think it COULD be interesting for joe’s you to just be himself but it also seems a little boring and hard to pull off in an interesting way? it makes sense though. i definitely agree it won’t be kate, though.
I agree with you on the political part. but as far as Kate is concerned for me, you have it all wrong. If you had observed Joe and Kate's interview carefully, you would have noticed on their behavior that they play at being a couple in front of the journalists. Kate's father warned Joe about his daughter, just as Dottie had warned him about Love. Nobody knows what Joe said to Kate when he was in the hospital. I think Joe has information against Kate and is using it against her. Joe and Kate aren't going to stick together from the start of S5, actor Penn said in an interview. the YOU series showed us that we should never trust what we see and above all never trust Joe's thoughts. you forget one important thing, Marienne is still alive and somehow Joe will find out, and he will go get her, because he is still obsessed with her.
Yeah there was definitely a sinister undertone in the interview, but to me it felt like that was coming more from Joe. I know Kate's father 'warned' Joe about her, but idk, Tom was a manipulating, lying, murdering billionaire, so I think he could have just been trying to scare Joe off in order to get back at Kate. (Just like how Kate tells Joe that her father got rid of all her past boyfriends) I know it's an unpopular opinion to have about Kate, but I just feel like if they do the whole "love interest is secretly evil" thing again, that's kinda boring you know?
if you’re looking for new shows to watch, i’d recommend Money Heist! it’s my #1 favorite show and to me it is just perfect. it definitely isn’t for everyone but i thought i’d mention it bc i’d be really happy if you watch and review it :)
I think I've heard of that before and even wanted to watch it. But is it a different language? Sometimes I go to watch something and it's in another language so I put it off and then end up forgetting to go back to it lol
Well, assuming it’s split into two parts, for part one I’m hoping Marienne talks to the people who are alive that knew Joe and together they gather enough evidence or at least enough coincidences that even money can’t sweep under the rug. I’d then want it to end with Joe being caught. That’s part 1. For part 2 I want it to show Joe on the run with nothing. No food. No money. No Kate. Just himself and fear. I want that to end with Beck, somehow still alive, being the one that shoots him in the face. Yes I still think Beck is alive. I find it odd that they didn’t show her death on screen and now with this split personality thing they introduced I don’t think it would be crazy that Joe believed he killed Beck and created this whole idea that the people around him thought she was dead too.
hm, I mean I think he disposed of her body at Dr. Nicky's house and that plus the other evidence Joe planted is why Dr. Nicky got convicted of her murder. I can't imagine Dr. Nicky going to jail for murder if they never found and identified Beck's body
I think the reason that they didn't show her death or Peach's death in season 1 was so that we would continue to sympathize with Joe. If we saw him ruthlessly murder women, we might not continue to believe that he's a "good guy killing bad people." It would be awesome if she was still alive but I think they found her body on Dr Nicky's property... I was actually kind of hoping that Love took the adrenaline as well since she knew she would be messing with aconite and that she made it out alive.
Great video! Love your content on you. Honestly it's such an interesting series to discuss. I find it fascinating that you said I don't like seeing the bad guy win, because I wouldn't say Joe is the bad guy. But it's complicated. He is a bad guy as in a bad person who does evil things obviously but he is also the protagonist of the story and we usually want the protagonist to win in the end. But in this case most people from what I can tell don't want him to win or escape or whatever. However the antagonist of the story is interesting as well often part of it is not being caught whether that's by innocent by standers or police or love interest etc. But then several times the antagonist has been someone in Joe's view at least even more evil. For me that's part of what makes the show so great playing with these ideas and assumptions changing the narrative on good and evil, protagonist and antagonist. Also until recently I hadn't even thought about how I wanted it to end, but when a female friend mentioned it and said she would love him to end up in jail or some how paying for his crimes I felt very conflicted and my initial reaction was of disagreement which I also found interesting as I think the show does a good job of calling into question our view of good and evil if we are looking threw a specific persons lense. Additionally I think the fact that a large female audience really want Joe locked or similar whilst I myself wasn't so sure that's what I wanted make a good and interesting point about gendered opinions. All good stuff very thought provoking love the content as well keep it up 🙂
thank you! it has been really fun to make all these videos, I'm glad I've had the chance to do it and to have everybody commenting and talking about the show too. I think even though he's our main character, he's bad in a way that I don't want him to win. I kinda think about The Punisher (the netflix version), how he was technically a bad guy because he was going around and murdering people, but he was killing 'bad people', criminals, and he was doing it because his family was taken from him. As opposed to Joe who kills a lot of relatively innocent people, just because they got in his way or didn't love him back.
@@cinekizzle thanks for the reply! I agree of course that he is a bad guy but personally there is something for me that is satisfying about seeing him getting into very precarious scenarios and seeing the clever ways he gets out of it. I guess thats why I don't want his comeuppance but either way very excited for season 5!
I think since joe also finally accepted his dark self he is now cant love anyone else at all. Only himself so when he gets his chance he will kate with 0 remorse or guilt although i doubt he will do something that will expose him really badly but i still think he doesnt love her at all
@@cinekizzle s4 clearly showed how in love he was with himself. I doubt they will kill him. Death is way too much of an easy punishment for a bastard criminal like joe.
your first theory about the Dr Nikki subreddit yes it's kinda already been done in like season 2 and 4 by the crazy waitress and Forty Quinn and i don't mean crazy in like a bad way or a rude way i love crazy.
@@cinekizzle Right, but that's the point, and have people debating it for decades to come hahaha, I'm pretty sure they'll do something like this.Jail time makes sense for Joe but it's just not an exciting ending.
Ngl, i kind of want to see Nightcrawler type ending, like make Joe as evil and unlikable as possible and have him succeed/become the mayor at the end, sad but realistic
Wait if he’s returning to NYC as Joe Goldberg what if one of Beck’s old friends recognize him? I mean whatever happened to them anyway I honestly forgot haha!
I think Blythe was convinced by the Dark Face of Love story that Beck wrote and believes Dr. Nicky killed her. I'll be interested to see Cynthia's character more in season 5!
Joe said he killed people and Kate was like Cool. I dont know why people think Kate is a good person and is gonna cause his downfall. She is the Reason Joe can be his most evil self. In your theory replace Kate with Nadia and it would make sense. Joe literally says about Nadia "I cant wait to see what she does next"
We don't know exactly what he told her, he could have spun a story making him out to be the victim in his relationship with Love. And I would love love love for Nadia to come back, I'm just not sure if she would be able to. I hope she finds a way though!
@@cinekizzle I just go by what we saw on screen which is Joe admitting to be a murderer, and Kate being pretty chill with it😂 The rest is speculation, which could be fun dont get me wrong. Nadia being set up for a comeback seems pretty obvious tho, to me.
@@Flipitmixit When did he admit that? I know not in the hospital scene because in the hospital he just talks about the telling the truth and tells her his real name but then it cuts away
@@Flipitmixit omg yeah no, so sorry, you are right about that. It's been a little while since the last time I watched the show. So he does admit to having killed people, but we don't know what all he admits to and how much of what he tells her is the truth. My thought is, she might only know about Rhys and believe he killed Rhys because her powerful father *made* him which is why she can look past it, and about Love but Joe spun that story to make him look like a victim of Love who was acting in self defense. I think her being okay with those two murders is far different from being okay with all of Joe's murders.
@@cinekizzle yeah people like him never truly suffer! They always try and get the upper hand. Like how Ted bundy married one of the women who sent letters to him… but it would totally be a cop out if they killed him off in the end
I want to see Joe go full tv killer, stalking people in a big house and chasing them with a knife. That would make him come full circle in his craziness. But ultimately, I think he has to be caught. He technically already died in season 4, so it happening 'but for real' wouldn't be satisfying. His fate should be the box, because Mooney never should have let him out.
I wouldn't be surprised if Joe ends up in prison, 4 walls, the same thing he gave his victims, I imagine it would be similar to Hannibal if you ever watched that show, death for his character seems too easy though. Would be neat to see him suffer, let his previous victims haunt him, beck, etc.. in that cage known as prison for him. That is what I would ultimately like to see. Death is too easy for Joe Goldberg
The fact.that Greg Berlanti and Sera Gamble aren’t involved in the last season makes me think it’s going to intentionally be way different than the previous four seasons.
I also thought that it would make sense for him to run for office because Rhys “inspired him.” But also, many people think politicians are evil, so it would like…complete his evil self actualization.
I thought I read she was stepping down as showrunner but will still be an exec producer because she's busy with other things. I think the people taking over as showrunners have been working on the show for years so they'll probably keep the same vibes as best they can.
yeah i think kates curiosity is going to get the best of her and shes going to dig deeper in to who joe is based on actions hes going to do. i could see the moriarty and sherlock thing...but sherlock in the final problem lives. kate may fall down the reddit hole and find others that know the truth...maybe team up with marianne and take him out
I just hope they don’t mess this up like Dexter. I’m completely ok with Joe being taken down, one way or the other, but it needs to be earned, otherwise it’s just plot convenience.
I think love should come back and play the Rhys role of season 4 I think it makes more sense for season 5 to have Joe hallucinating love the whole season it could start maybe if Joe sees Henry again because now he's back in America as Joe he could see Henry again and maybe even get custody of him with the money he's got and being married to Kate creating a stable family him seeing Henry could make him hallucinate love as he's taken down and Joe's last "good" thing he tries to do is make sure Henry doesn't end up in a home like him I also think he'll meet his mum again and possibly his brother also
nope, apparently the actor who plays Rhys is coming back for a few episodes for S5 to play Joe's evil double. regarding the characters of Love and Beck, they will return, but will always remain ghosts in Joe's hallucinations. Regarding Henry, Joe will not get him back and will leave him with Dante.
That could be a cool way to bring her back! But idk if Joe even *wants* custody of his child. He did seem a little upset over having to leave him at the end of season 3 but I think he might just accept that he's better off with Dante and Lansing (the couple he left Henry with)
@@cynechyne2722 well we don't know he will leave him with Dante he might but now he's back as Joe he's not on the run and he didn't want to bring Henry with him when he's on the run and also he needed to leave him with Dante because he's supposed to be dead and Henry disappearing would be suspicious but now with all the money he has he might want him back or at least see him which would could still make him hallucinate love and I'm fine with Rhys coming back if he is I liked him alot but I think love should be there also maybe it could be Rhys for a few episodes then love for a few episodes
@@cinekizzle maybe but he left him with Dante because he didn't want him to end up in a home like he was but now he's this powerful it might go to his head the fact he won't get caught because of the money and power he has and might not worry about Henry being in a home so he gets custody but then as the season progresses he then starts to worry about it again and maybe before he's arrested or killed he makes sure Henry's alright or maybe not maybe him bringing him back into his life will damage Henry and he'll also end up in a home it's just a thought of how he might end up hallucinating love because her scene in season 4 was great but having that in more episodes in the final season while Joe is having his downfall just makes sense
@@kylerees3491 Joe won't get his son back. In the books too, he doesn't get him back. and at the end of S4 he confirmed he won't get it back, he said he's better off where he is
I think Joe should get away with it. I think you should except the main character of a story no matter who they are. That is how you will enjoy the story from the writers perspective. Also Joe's mom could stop Joe in season 5 since she saw what Joe did as a kid. She could be the key. Honestly I think Joe should get away with it in the end just to show the true darkness of the show, so the darkness can catch up with the books level of darkness. If Joe gets away with it in the end then It'll be quite interesting on how they would end it. I'm curious on how it would end if he were to get away with it since he could just continue killing or maybe a time skip
I could totally see internet sleuths getting involved, it would be pretty funny to see Joe react to RU-vid videos of his past crimes on a bunch of "coffee-time crime" style YT channels, and Reddit threads full of people coming up with their theories on why they think Joe did it; it would be rather fitting given Joe's disdain for social media and his general avoidance of using it for anything other than stalking purposes. I could also see his mother or half-brother being the ones to land the "killing blow" on Joe (either literally or figuratively), perhaps his brother is even more unhinged than Joe given that he's the one that spent the most time around their mother (Joe's mom is probably her own special brand of problematic given some of her past actions and decisions we've seen in previous flashbacks).
just curious, what are the past actions of his mother that you're referring to? I felt like she was a victim of domestic violence, and did certain things to try and get enough money to get them out of that situation. I think she made a very bad decision showing him the gun but I understand she was doing it to try and make her child feel safe. and I would have thought she'd learn and be able to give Jakey a better life than Joe. And if that's the case, I could see his mother and Jakey being normal, and Joe resenting his half-brother for having a good childhood while he had a traumatic one and felt abandoned by his mother
@@cinekizzle In season 3 there's a flashback to when child-Joe tracks his mother down as she's leaving her house with her new kid (Joe's half-brother) and she tells Joe that she needed to start her life over (without him) and abandons him again. I get that it's insinuated in the scene that Joe had behavioral issues even before his first kill but Joe is her son and she's clearly not hurting for money by the time he finds her, she could've done something to support him once she was in a better financial situation (even if she didn't want any direct contact with him) but she didn't. If she can move on and discard her troubled young child that easily then I dare say she's got issues and skeletons in her closet herself, she even alludes to having made a lot of mistakes in the past so who knows what she's really like. Of course, this was all from Joe's POV so it's possible that in reality, the scene didn't play out like that, but for the moment we can only go by what we've seen of his mother via Joe's flashbacks and she seems like kind of an asshole.
@@RatticusG yeah maybe I'm giving her too much benefit of the doubt. I kinda just interpreted it as her blaming herself for what Joe went through while in her care and thinking he would be better off without her, and maybe even being barred from contacting him by court order as it was her neglect that led to him killing her boyfriend. I guess I thought he was taken away to the boys home rather than her just sending him away. but over time, she got herself into a better position and when she had Jakey, she worked to do better for him. I could be wrong, but to me it seemed like how Joe left Henry behind because he would be better off without Joe in his life.
@@cinekizzle Tbh, I'd actually forgotten how bad she was until I watched all the flashback scenes from seasons 1 to 3, it's clear she also went through hell but there's a lot of neglect and gaslighting/manipulation towards Joe on her part. With parents like that, it's no wonder he turned out the way he did.
I think just a general prediction for s5 is that Kate, Marriene, and maybe a new love interest will die in s5 by Joe Joe was referred to Bluebeard by Beck a couple times before her death with the story of bluebeard being that he married and killed all 6 of his wives. Joe's wife/Gf count is pretty close to 6 Candace, Beck, Love, Marriene, and Kate(if you count Delilah then 6 if not a new love interest for Joe will make it 6) and both Marriene and Kate are still alive so it's really only a matter of time for both of them to bite the dust. I still think Joe is going to get caught due to leaving so many bread crumbs throughout each season like the jar of piss and his own lack of self awareness being what gets him would be pretty fitting
I had actually considered that when making my Kate character analysis video, I thought maybe she even saw Joe kill Malcolm! (since she can see into his apartment too) but when I tried to explore that a little more, I just couldn't really make it work after rewatching the season but they could completely change it up on us!
I think like, the highest level assistant. The lady at the end when they're in the interview, and she's like "let's get back to talking about Kate" She was Tom's assistant and now she's Kate's. She helped cover up Joe's DNA being on Rhys' body, and bribed the Madre Linda chief of Police and all that stuff.
I wish season 4 was the last season cause now it feels like they're dragging the story. I would loveee to see like at the midway point he gets caught and from that point on we see him either trying to run or we see Joe go to trial for his crimes. I would love to see it all unfold and how Joe would react to all of his crimes be called out unfiltered because he is so delusional and thinks that the stalking of his interest and murdering people close to them is "in their best interest"
I had a thumbnail image in mind and then I got home from dinner and saw your video and was like, dang that's literally the screenshot I was gonna use lolll. So I kinda just threw together what I could. Netflix just doesn't like sharing any good high resolution pictures from their shows and it drives me crazy
I desperately want his downfall to be a woman. I was so disappointed in the first half when we thought his tormented was Rhys a man. I do really want a former victim or a woman to be his end. It would be poetic justice. I think I’d be very disappointed if it was a man.
Tom's assistant that helped cover up his crimes and now Kate's assistant that covered up Joe's DNA being on Rhys body. She was in the interview at the end. I realize now I should have included the clip of her so people knew who I meant
oh I saw a trailer for that show a while ago! but it was on peacock so I never got a chance to watch it :( I'll find a way though because it looks good!
@@cinekizzle if you ever get the chance, I highly recommend it. Also I just recently found your channel from the you content and I’ve been enjoying it. Keep up the good work
I think Kate will kill him. If someone kills him in the cage, its too easy, that would bore us to death. Nadalie and Marriane have to be connected some how? It has to be Kate, she's like her father. He has to be tortured, a lot!
I don't like Joe, but I'm not really into the tendency of people to think of the point of prison/jail as being to "punish" people's crimes. I don't see the (ideal) goal of the Justice System as being primarily to punish rather than mitigate crime and protect, even if the US Justice system is heavily flawed and often disproportionately targets minorities. That said, I'd be perfectly fine for Joe to end up in prison with a life sentence. Or maybe he dies. Or just suffers in general. Whatever happens, I just want Joe to be unhappy and unsatisfied at the end, with the knowledge hanging over him that this is just the tip of the iceberg. Everything after the series finale should be with the fullest implications that everything will just get worse for Joe from here on out, whether he's actually facing direct consequences or not.
yeah, we're talking about it in the context of a TV show and also, a serial killer who has murdered 18 people. in real life, I think the goal of the justice system *shouldn't* be to punish people but to rehabilitate those who commit violent crimes and keep the public safe. of course, that's not how it works out because of the whole prison industrial complex, systemic racism, etc. but in this show, yeah, I want the guy to suffer.
If this MF doesn’t get a nice big plate of justice served to him in the end I will be depressed forever. In fact I will watch reviews pre watching it to find out the ending and confirm Joe is brought to justice or I refuse to watch it.
oh yeah that too!! I keep forgetting about that. I just watched Last of Us and one of the episodes had the lady from Yellowjackets which reminded me to watch it but I immediately forgot lol
They are gonna go Deathnote with it. Nadia might become the L to Joe's Light. And like Light Joe is gonna be backed into a corner and his mask is gonna come off. He wont be able to deny who he is anymore or talk himself out of it. He's gonna die or get imprisoned in his own cage as the pathetic person he truly is.
I think love could come back I mean you can totally disagree whatever but I think that she could come at me guys. Technically we never saw her really die and then she laid there but it’s still a possibility never say never.
She was Tom's assistant but now she's Kate's assistant. Do you remember the interview at the end of season 4? She was that lady (I think in a black dress), the one that tried to steer to interviewer back to talking about Kate instead of Joe
I have watched it before, but I'm not sure when the newest season will come out. Maybe I'll go back and rewatch the first 4 seasons now that YOU is over for now!
