Depicted is Geoffrey Howe delivers a searing attack on Thatcher in Parliament, in the climax of the Iron Lady's eventual downfall. #Netflixseries #Thecrown #GillianAnderson
I think this is the first scene in the Crown that portraits a parliamentary session in the House of Commons of the United Kingdom. Funny cause it was Thatcher’s premiership that saw the first official televised session of parliament.
I’m pretty sure that is purely coincidental. That said the reason I think this was the first and to date only seen shot from the Commons was because the Show is trying not to focus too much on the government but on the monarchy. Yes the government is going to be showcased because as Claire Foy a put it “Everything the government does affects her”, but primarily they try to keep the focus on the queen. Lord Howe’s resignation from cabinet was the domino effect that led to thatchers exit from Downing Street. So naturally they had to feature it to set Margaret up for her exit, and to set the queen up for their reconciliation if you will.
@@stephenbaker2105 I agree the first episodes were ok but the last episodes were bad in terms of her voice and facial expressions cauese thatcher was so strong in her time as Prime Minister
@@attackpatterndelta8949 Yeah I think they have recasted him. Wierd choice perhaps to cast someone for the last episode of a season to then recast him the very next episode. But we will see.
It's hard to understand now, with its quiet, subdued tone and all these years later, how devastating this was to Margaret Thatcher. Her future was sealed by this speech, and everyone in the country knew it.
@@boulevard14 I think that’s an accurate representation of Thatcher in the last final phases of her tenure as prime minister. Her allies were quickly abandoning her and some of them actively working against her as well as mounting public persecution. As well as the fact that she despite her interest in continuing her premiership was no longer favored by her own party.
@@henrylivingstone2971 Except watch her impression and watch the actual Thatcher. She exaggerated her voice way too much, played her like Thatcher in the 2000s.
I completely agree Martin. Streep's Thatcher was a busy, dynamic character with lots of eye movements and obvious calculating 'thoughts'. Anderson has managed to humanise Thatcher, almost drawing the audience into her and allowing us to experience Thatcher's depth of 'emotions'. I can't get enough of Gillians' portrayal.
I, unfortunately, believe that they have recasted the John Major actor for the upcoming season. Maybe the look alike didn't have the acting abilities to continue the show.
@@pelloo3627 I doubt the acting was the problem . He has the mannerisms and facial expressions down to a tee . A sign someone is highly capable. Maybe the actor was unavailable or didn't like the character development Plus he would have had screen tests and so on. They were obviously happy with his capabilites.
@@hannahdyson7129 maybe, or they just wanted a look alike to stand in the background for the last episode of the season and then they would recast John Major when all the other actors were being recast aswell.
My one criticism of this particular scene was there was no backstory to set it up. That is we didn’t see the falling out between Lord Howe and the Baroness Thatcher before he gave this speech
I think it's enough that we see that he is constantly clashing with her cabinet on all matters of the her majesty's government that it would be a matter of time before it all explodes.
I can’t help but notice the absence of Nigel Lawson who would have been seated right beside Howe to his right. He was a friend to Howe and wanted to publicly show his support to him during his speech. Lawson would succeed Howe as chancellor up until October 1989 when he himself resigned due to criticism from walters who favoured a floating exchange rate.
Wonderful acting by Gillian Anderson. This was when British politics was at its finest, loyalty, duty and the weight of power. All we get now is Poundland politicians just backing up the PM with no accountability in order to get promoted or keep their poxy job.
That's why MP's shouldn't be paid a base salary of £80,000 PLUS expenses. Being an MP nowadays is a fucking racket - the majority go into it for the money, nothing else. Why should that bitch Mhari Black, at 23 years of age when she was elected in 2015 with no experience, walk into a job paying a salary like that?? What OTHER job would give you a salary that high with no fucking experience??! Isn't it funny how she's disappeared. She came in with a few firebrand speeches, talking about the 'poison' of Westminster and how she was there to fight for change. Now she's silent, keeps her head down stays out the way and just takes the fucking money like the rest of them. Head in the fucking trough!
Man the show really made the House of Commons look like a cold and dark cave. It's quite the contrast to the actual recordings of Howe's speech where the room is warm and brightly light. Not to mention the room was way more crowed and lively when he gave his speech. His cricket metaphor got a much bigger laugh than the show depicted. I kind of wish dramas would lay off the gloomy atmosphere every now and then. Darkness is darker when you have light to compare it with.
Same including the strike and ira assasin attempt and also how effective she was in debating parliament when she resigned but this more of the monarchy than politics but it still should have some relevance but I guess the show was limited time and episodes
Gereat show, tho, if you watch the real speech of Geoffrey Howe, Thatcher wasnt as stiff and upset, she even laughed about the basball bat joke a bit and wasnt as upset. I know the Series treis to get s super serious tone but i think it might be a bit better sometimes to stick a bit to the source material we have and then interprete what a charcater might think behind closed doors as we saw before in this show. It makes watching the real footage to some events a bit weird espeically politics.
Absolutely right! She got detached from the public and deluded in her views of how to run the country. Sitting in number 10 like a dictator without consulting the wishes of the parliament or the public - she had it coming!
The opening is rubbish. Howe argued he had no ideological difference with the PM, hence the line ‘I must be the only minister ever to have resigned because I was in full accordance with government policy.’ He thought Thatcher herself had departed from the mission
I've always wondered were there footage of MT's reaction/behaviour when Howe's resignation speech was read out loud during that session. I mean, did she really look/feel that destroyed during the session itself I wonder.
There were generations who despised their politicians for having a backbone. "Too stubborn, uncompromising", they said. Then we got Merkel and all the other figures from today. Let's face it: Gathering people for a good cause - and then keeping them together to make policy reality is really hard. Any person who does not become cynical in such a job deserves all our praise, no matter the political home. Was Thatcher such a person? I don't know enough about her. Criticizing other politicians as weakly cowards doesn't qualify a cynical person for me. How did she think about the general public?
A true warrior knows when to retreat. Merkel's success has been in that she is strong but she does know when to compromise. Thatcher said it was her way or the highway and never yielded. That can be good for some things but some things require compromise as circumstances change or new information is available
@@MsJubjubbird Nobody is perfect, nor was Merkel. She made some mistakes, but she was the best of politicians at the time, and also of what is available today. She had integrity like no other politician and pursued the policies she believed in, without letting populistic issues or bribe influence her decisions. She will be missed as a strong and decisive chancellor and leader of Germany.
This crappy Tory Govt are truly Thatcher’s Children. Cynical, corrupt, dishonest and only in it for themselves whilst stoking division and diversion from any scrutiny, aided and abetted by a dishonest press.
I come here again to say this is nothing like the actual speech. In fact, outside of the first sentence, there is almost nothing similar to the original speech.
That's not correct, it's shortened but most of it is directly quoted. The cricketing metaphor, the 'no no no' letter, the 20 years loyalty, and the last few lines are almost exactly as Howe said them. Are you thinking of another speech maybe?
Important to note that whatever you think of thathcer Howe was completely in the wrong, him and other MPs pushing us into the ERM was a disaster for our currency leading to Black Wednesday. Cost us billions with nothing to show for it.
@@jackpearson5285 Not necessarily. He could have sincerely believed in the European project, and he could have been hired on because his expertise was valued.
no, he is sat too far back at the time Tony Blair was shadow secretary of state for employment thus would be sat on the front bench maybe it's Mandelson but the actor looks more like Bryan Gould.
So did no one spring for any lights for this show? Every scene I've ever watched, even outside scenes are so dark. .... or was that planned because the subject matter, story, and location are all dreary, depressing and interesting?
Rubbish Commons mock-up though. All out of proportion and with various oddments, just looks like they’ve used a provincial council chamber. Few bits of plywood could have worked wonders :D
You over estimate how Britons think of Diane Spencer. She was a silly girl who became a media junky. After the strange week of her death and funeral, there was general embarrassment and now she's forgotten. Who cares who plays her in a TV soap opera?
@@nigelsheppard625 uhhh 2.5 Billion people watch her funeral mate and more 3 Million gather at Hyde Park and Victoria Square 23 years after her death and she is still the most recognizable royal member of all time which is funny considering she died when her title was already taken off from her and the 2nd most recognized brit in its history according to time magazine and if she's forgotten how come news stations are reporting on her again after the crown and the new BBC revelation on Martin Bashir
Im a MT aficionado, but it seemed at the time he was betraying his leadership. They portrayed here as different interpretations of political courses , and perhaps that’s what happened.
She lived by the sword and she died by it. She can hardly complain about those around her finally standing up to her and years of her bullying and cajoling them. She got a taste of her own medicine and she left Downing Street in tears. I can only imagine her reaction years previously had one of her cabinet members had been ''so weak'' like she was at the end.
@@ericcarlson3746 Yep. Heath was stabbed in the back by Thatcher, his own education secretary. Once Major became PM she tried to be a back seat driver.
She's rotting in hell for all she's done. Thatcher brought about her downfall with her failed policies and arrogant attitude. good riddance to the Wicked Witch of Britain.
Anybody get the feeling that the writers didn't like Thatcher? Not British, not conversant with her life and times but considering she came and went how long ago? They are are swatting a historical fly with a sledgehammer. Anyone able to tell me what the deal is/was?
I'd need a better reminder of what bits your thinking of but trust me as a Brit Thatcher to us is certainly not a fly in our past, still today she remains present in her divisive transformation of the country that has shaped our modern day society and recent decision to collectively jump of a cliff on foreign policy. (In fact the most popular question in 2016 was how would've Maggie have voted) Maggie is always difficult to portray as whatever you do odds are you piss off half the country But yeah I don't know if this answers your question but at least gives you an idea of how emotive of an issue she is over here
Absolutely hated this portrayal of Margaret thatcher. It’s too cartoonish and a character of itself. The constant stroke like facial reactions. I honestly get how anyone thinks this is good. Meryl Streep gave a master class in how to do Thatcher.
She is probably the last "Legendary" British Prime Minister to date. Who comes close to her in prestige? Maybe Tony Blair? But that's the guy who got Britain involved in 2 disastrous wars. At least Thatcher overwhelmingly won her war. (And it wasn't an illegal nor an illegitimate war either). She's the only PM with an epithet in recent memory. After her we got the short reined John Major. Tony Blair. Another short term with Gordon Brown. A coalition leader in David Cameron for 5 years. Then short stints with Theresa May and Boris Johnson. Now Liz Truss, the conwoman.
Yeah, I mean they were right that our current trajectory would take us out of Europe, a place where we ironically got what we wanted on big issues like originally not having that whole pesky social chapter on workers rights, but whether that was the right thing to do ? No
Actually, the irony here is that he is leaving his ''weakness' behind and gained the strength to be his own man after years of been bullied and browbeaten by Thatcher. You can disagree with what he is saying but he is certainly not being weak here.
Howe was a little man who was bitter about the 1975 leadership contest even though he had bungled the 1974 general election and was unable to bring the unions under control, which was Thatcher's greatest achievement. A snob and a lightweight, he brief premiership will be cast into the oblivion of history.
All prime ministers rise and fall. 'The Crown' should reflect reality. Let the Queen & Prince Philip's lives of service remind us of the huge, tangible power for peace and stability the British monarchy is for everyone in Britain, the commonwealth and for the world. In the 19th & 20th centuries the U.S.A, France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Greece suffered in various ways civil wars, political storms, and dictatorships. This shows what can go wrong in the absence of a head of state which is above politics, which opposes illegal dictatorship and helps keep the peace. If there are many reasons England, Wales, Scotland, Canada and Australia have had no civil war since Culloden in 1746, having a constitutional monarchy is an important one. In the UK, 'peace' in formal speech is "The Queen's Peace". Of course the Queen & Prince Philip had their failings as parents, and Prince Philip could be tactless. Whatever mistakes the royal family have made, let us be grateful for the service they give, and for the difference the monarchy makes for the better, in the world. There will always be violence in the world, and billions of people who know or understand nothing of the British monarchy. The value of the British crown since the 1700s is, many billions of people have lived under it without civil war, lynching, dictatorship in their lives.
Geoffrey Howe's resignation speech back in 1990 did this country a great disservice and led the Conservative party to dismiss one of the Greatest Prime Minister's of the 20th century! Margaret Thatcher was a conviction politician and towering figure our Iron lady! lady Thatcher's greatly and very much sadly missed we could do with her now in a troubled challenging world!! 😔
@@Afroman29 she was a good pm and no one has given a good reason otherwise so I'll wait for you you do it. How is she wicked saying she is isn't an argument nor is it substitute for one either. So tell me why she was wicked and a bad pm and a lot more of something.
@@kordellswoffer1520 It can be objectively argued that she oversaw the vast decline of industry in a lot of the country outside the South East. The financial services in London isn't really a true economy in terms of everyone having a solid job. The miners didn't do anything wrong. She just destroyed their industry without any replacement to keep large sections of the industrial North going. In other words, she abandoned much of the country for only a small part to get a big boom.
@@ciaranoconnell4783 I never saw your message but now I have seen it. Decline is vague, seeing as industrial output grew during her years as pm and considering the poor state of Britain industry I don’t blame anyone person for the decline. The coal miners did do something wrong, they basically strong-armed the country into concessions and getting whatever they wanted when they shouldn’t have gotten it. Coal was dying industry in the first place. She closed less mines then her labor counter part and even on a yearly basic by quite the margins. Heavy industries have been leaving Britain for quite sometime but that can be blamed on taxes regulations unions etc. The British economy is still an economy just because it doesn’t revolve around heavy industry doesn’t mean it’s not an economy.
The "defeat" is shown and lived everyday. Great Britain is not so "great" anymore. In fact it is a mess. Almost a laughingstock. The jury is still out as to how Brexit will play out. But the chaos at the beginning is very damaging to the image and the economy of the U.K.
@Son 0f Jack Oh so it's only cause Boris in the end didn't want to leave, if we had Douglas Caswell, John Redwood doing it or good ol' Nigel, Brexit would be brilliant and we'd all run round laughing and singing in our wonderful utopia free from EU red tape, correct?
Her decisions also prevailed in creating an underdeveloped North, dismal public services with the NHS so fragmented it needs jobs to tie jobs together and a loosly regulated financial system perfect for hiding Russian money and creating a global recession in 2008 (granted along with its American big brother)
@Son 0f Jack Brexit however you slice it is not a good economic decision for the country, economically: we said yar boo sucks to a market we have spent 40 years integrating and building with and politically our closest allies were told that we think their awful and that were gonna tie ourselves to the sinking ship known as America (sorry to any Americans), the only thing it would be successful on is limiting EU migration but that just means that we start offering visas to more people further afield, I don't know if I've made any difference to you but Brexit was either way a regression, (sorry if I came off as rather aggressive in the first bit)
