Great in-depth look at refrigerant hoses. Being new to the field it was good to see up close the differences between the regular & the low loss fittings. I was also looking forward to seeing the valves on the manifold being operated with the cut-out view, hopefully sometime in the future just to see exactly what goes on inside the manifold when opening & closing the valves.
Ball valve type controls still let lots of refrigerant out during hookup and removal. The Schrader depressor type is a really good no loss fitting. Great videos! Keep them coming!
I usually use the on the high side most of the time. I don't know why more people don't use them. I know they can leak but with regular maintenance they are perfect.
I finally bought some low loss fittings after years of using ball valves. They were great until somehow a gasket fell out of my HP fitting. Now I can't seem to find a replacement gasket. If they aren't replaceable then I'm going right back to ball valves
You can buy replacement gaskets but you need c clip pliers to take the ring off the back. I much prefer manual ball valve low loss fittings for field work. I only like the automatic ones for new students so they don't have to remember as many steps.
@@love2hvac oh, good to know. I was having a hard time finding them online. Hate to throw away a brand new hose. Still it's kinda a pain in the arse. I think I'll go back to balls
Great video. Thank you. Newbie here. My manifold as a V-shape nipples. None facing straight down. I hooked up and couldn’t get pressure. After watching your video twice I understood how they flow and had them on backwards. Oh boy, I’m in for some schooling.
I personally like the low loss fittings from Yellow Jacket that you thread on to your existing hose, like the one you showed around the 6 min mark. Those to me work the best than compared to any hose that comes with low loss fittings. I believe the product I mentioned is called the SealRight Quick Couplings or something to that affect.
I loved this presentation. I learned so much! Everything explained with reasons. However, I do not quite understand why one of those hoses which had a burst rating of 2500 psig was unsuitable. Usually the burst pressure of the hose is 10X hoop stress and so it ought to have worked. But then these hoses are polymers and with repeated cooling and warming they become brittle and it is best to be on the safe side. I wonder if these have expiration dates after which the hoses need to be discarded???
Thank you A lot of companies are still selling hoses rated for R22 for cheaper vs the ones Designed for 410A It's a great question about expression, I usually replace my hoses every year but now I use probes so I only use the hoses when charging or recovering so they last much longer. I still have my great grandfather's hoses but I would not trust them. I guess it just depends on build quality, use and abuse.
Please consider reviewing the process of connecting a smart probe with the ball valve hose attached to low side with proper EPA bleeding of refrigerant.
Thank you, I believe the HVAC 042C covers this ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-O1AuYUqKrLw.html Its not with probes but the same process applies, let me know what you think.
I prefer to connect manifold hoses to service port while system is off because there's less chance of introducing contamination. Also high side pressure will be much lower, resulting in less loss.
I agree, I always have students start with the unit off. In reality its just not practical in the field. shutting the system down, 5 minute equalization, 15 minute run time to balance. That's a 20 minute loss. I have been using probes the last few weeks that have virtually no loss. Im quite impressed with them. I think they will reduce a lot of loss and contamination once they become mainstream
Yup I burnt my hand once from R22 (ps I used a low loss fitting and it got stuck, you can imagine I never used a low loss since 😉). My hand looked like it got burnt in fire. Thank God my hand recovered completely 🙏🏻.
Oh no! I've had many stick, never got burned. The ball valves are my favorite second to the probes ofcourse. The auto low loss I use specifically for the newest students. I find they dont remember to turn the valve before unscrewing. I've always wanted to try these but I'd have to win the lotto first. www.weh.us/quick-connectors/hvac-r.html
I know this comment may be a little late, and it's an older video, but I've seen pictures of manual ball valves, and i understand that setting the core depressor height is key to the low loss. ive read a blog on navac about them saying the core depressor should be flush with the hose gasket my question is does it hurt to have the core depressor a little lower than the gasket 1 to 2 turns? Also, i planned on using a manaul core depressor tool that traps gas to put back into the vapor side. I'm making sure to purge my hoses before all of this first. Ultimately, i feel like 1 to 2 turns below the gasket allows it to seal against the port right away. I've not tried it yet, but i plan to when my new hoses and manaul core depressor come in I feel like this offers the most control and least loss. Maybe you could answer this.
So you're saying the ball valve type won't allow liquid out of the shrader port when you're connecting or disconnecting? The whole concern is at the nut. Between the nut and its tube, or from the threads of the nut onto the port, liquid is going to spew out as long as your connector is depressing the unit's valve core. Forget what's in your lines; you can easily have the compressor suck that back through your manifold into the unit until you're clear. Isn't it easier to use a thumbscrew-type "gate valve" sort of connector that you can turn before unscrewing from the service port? Maybe pair it with a low loss? 🤔
Ty, a couple questions 1. With gloves, if you use the right ones, is it the contact with the skin that makes your hands freeze, or is it the cold temperature? For example, in cold weather you need thick insulated gloves the keep your hands warm. Is the contact the problem or the cold air mist? 2. Why do some refrigerants come standard in 25# jugs and most others come in 30#? Isn't that confusing for price calculations as well as oddball sizes?
Great questions. 1st gloves heat transfer. 3 things to consider 1 Direct contact, as your hands touch something heat from your hand traveled to the cooler object. The material if the object can speed or slow heat transfer. Touching metal speeds heat transfer, an insulated glove slows heat transfer. 2 air temperature, heat will leave your hand to the air temperature, but also as wind moves more air across your hand it speeds up heat loss. In lower in humidity moisture from your hand still evaporates changing state absorbing heat away from your hand. A glove slows the heat transfer to the air and slows the evaporation. 3 fluids. Material that absorbs liquids are an issue.glave does great until you get it wet. Then it's transferring heat from your hand faster. If it's wet enviroment it has to be made to not absorb fluids. With refregerants, jusing a glove should be butal lines so it will not absorb to the glove. if not the refregerant will change state from a liquid to vapor at a very low temperature freezing your hand to the glove. This make it impossible to remove your hand from the glove and the refregerant continues to change state damaging your hand. Next refregerant tank size. Generally there is one standard size for disposable tanks that most of the industry uses. (Although In my day we could buy R22 in 50# single use containers.) Imagine a 30# container of R22, now imagina a 25# container of 410a. Notice how the container is the same size? If we do the math on a 30# recovery tank at 80% capacity generally speaking R22 can hold 21pounds and 410a can hold 17 pounds R22 has a density of 3.66 specific gravity 1.197 410a has a density of 3.0 Specific gravity 1.08 It comes down to volume and weight. You can fit more pounds R22 I'm the same tank. *Note 410a tanks are thicker to Handel the higher pressure. Even recovery tanks must be DOT 400 to Handel the higher pressure.
@@love2hvac when they list a price per jug on refrig. they usually don't say what size. If the say one is 110$ and the other is 280$, you don't quickly know how much per lb. They price by pound, not by volume, so it seems hokey to me. On the gloves if you have butaline gloves can you spill freon directly on it and leave it there for a minute without being harmed?
Pricing by the jug is probably a marketing thing. refregerant on the glove give you time. It dosent soak into the fabric like other gloves. It also won't freeze it to your hand. Gives you time to get your glove off.
Hi Ty - The material you present in this video makes perfect sense. However, based on it, I’m confused about the cables that came with the manifold gauge set I got from Harbor Freight (Pittsburg Automotive #60806). The manual for the gauges shows the crooked end of the cables being connected to the manifold while the open end of the cable (straight) connects to the port valve quick release. Are these instructions flawed? I.e., should I connect the straight end (completely open) to the manifold? Thanks for any advice on this topic! - Jim
So I'm a dirty dumb auto technician so excuse my ignorance. When I was working with my dad who did commercial and residential hvac. I watched him open and close the valves on the service ports to allow pressure readings and recovery/recharge. If these valves are present why don't you isolate the high side service valves and leave your hose connected, then open the high side and low side valves ok your manifold and "suck" that column of liquid back into the system? I come from automotive where some of our stand alone recovery machines do this during the charging stage. I've mad it a habit that every time I connect to a car, I unscrew the high side coupler while leaving it connected to the service port and then purge my liquid line back into the low side with the system running. This isn't a substitute for low loss but it minimizes loss of refrigerant from the system from having gauges on it.
Great question. In the automotive side the service hose is often still connected to the service machine and it's usually one refrigerant. So it's not an issue. In HVAC it's common to do it that way but it very often contaminates the system. In the yellow hose and the center manifold gauge without vacuum or recovery being done is contaminated with air, moisture, or some other refrigerant from the last service. When you disconnect the high side hose and bleed it across the manifold, the high pressure from the red hose pushes the contaminants from the manifold and center hose into the system and contaminates it. I used to find systems that has never been serviced with pure refrigerant but those that had been serviced had contamination. When I watched other techs don't they never purged the center because it's very difficult to do if your not pulling a vacuum or doing recovery first. After changing the methods we found the contamination issue on the equipment we serviced to go away.
Hey Ty, when testing pressures with a gauge, some of the refrigerant goes into the gauge, there is any way to prevent the loss of that refrigerant? when disconnecting the gauge. I mean some of it will just stay in the gauge and not in the unit, how can i get it back into the unit or prevent it? Great video by the way!
The best way it use probes and a charging tee. There is virtually no loss on the sensor. Then you only have the refrigerant in the charging hose. There are some options: 1 you can have the refrigerant in the hose to the valve when zeroing the scale. This way you are only measuring the refrigerant in the system. From there you can leave it in the hose and keep it attached to the tank for the next charge. 2 you can close the tank and bleed the refrigerant from the hose to the suction side, you will get all the liquid but there will be some vapor unaccounted for. Shorter hoses reduce this. 3 with the full manifold gauges, you can get the liquid into the suction side but you will loose the vapor amount in the hoses. on critically charged (small) systems this can be significant. On a typical AC it can add up over time just putting hoses on and off. Another reason to use the wireless probes.
Yes, I prefer manual valves. But when Im starting off with new students I use the auto low loss fittings (anti blow back) so they don't have to remember to open and close at first.
@@love2hvac thank you. with those 6" manual low loss fitting, there would still be some pressure blow back coming from inside the 6" hose? even with the valve close.
@@love2hvac Why not use valved fittings like on Auto where the fitting is attached to the port and then with a knob, the Schrader is pressed in and the hose is opened? When it's time to remove, the pin is withdrawn and the hose is sealed. To Drain the Liquid hose, you feed back through the gauge set manifold to the Suction side. You are allowed to do a 'de minimis' gas purge at the gauges so as to not introduce non-condensables, water or prior system refrigerant into the current system. In an auto shop, even that is captured by the recovery machine through the yellow hose.
Gloves can make it more dangerous. Most people use cloves out of a fabric that soaks up the liquid and causes the glove to freeze to the skin making it impossible to separate your hand and creating long term permina t damage. If your going to use gloves it has to be internally insulated and externally chemical resistant to prevent the liquid refrigerant from a soaking into it. This same gloves make it difficult to to put the hoses on or take them off fast enough to prevent refregerants from coming out in the first place. Safety fist don't work with refregerants or electricity. True safety be aware of the hazards and manage risks aporopriortly
I show multiple ways to recover, not just one way. I also show the speed difference between the different ways. If I teach only the better way for recovering without a manifold and a student works for a company that recovers through a manifold (most techs & companies) they the student will feel lost and the company will blame the student and the school for not knowing.
At 2:45 you start making the point that a lot more refrigerant is released from improperly disconnecting the high pressure hose vs. the low pressure, but along the way you say "if we were to loosen this and allow the refrigerant to escape, it's really not that big of a deal." I disagree - allowing refrigerant to escape is never best practice and it is always a huge impact on the environment and contributor to climate disaster at 1000's times CO2e. That's a really bad message for those learning and I hope you consider editing that statement out of your videos. Thanks for your consideration.
Thanks for your reply. Liquid refregerant cannot be vented legally and it is a considerate amount. Liquid density vs vapor density. As for the purging of the hose with vapor it is allowed under the deminimus release according to the EPA. The hoses must be purged and there is no other practical way of doing so. While I appreciate your concern for the environment, you have to also understand these steps I teaching are considered extreme by the majority of techs in the field. You have to consider a lot of techs do not recover refregerant at all. A lot of techs do not even attempt to recover refregerants or even fix refregerant leaks. There are a lot of techs that do not use low loss fittings at all and vent all the liquid refregerant out of the hose every time. I receive emails constantly form contractors upset that I tech all these "environmental" things that nobody does in the field. I have contractors tell me the methods I teach this is a waste of time and they just want to get the job done. I have had students out of my class mocked that they try to do recovery and follow these steps. If you go to the HVAC groups, you will find people bragging about venting refregerant and they mock the ones that are attempting to recover refregerant. The EPA does not even have a regulation for fixing refregerant leaks leaks on systems under 50pounds, Wich is every household and small to medium business. The EPA is not even enforcing venting of refregerant. I have had students who recorded and reported purpose venting to the EPA and nothing happens. While I do appreciate the care for the environment, the purging of vapor, deminimus refregerant is a nessesaty to ensure no contaminants and the only practicle method as of today. It's difficult to look at the vapor quantities when thousands upon thousands of pounds of liquid refregerant are purposely vented in the USA alone.
