I Cut a High End Canyon Carbon Fiber Frame in Half... Here Is What I Found! 

Watch my cheap carbon fiber frame-cutting video here - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wn60LWtKgx0.html Rob's website from Carbon Bike Repair UK is here - carbonbikerepair.co.uk/wp/

The "streaks" or "jam" that he believes is a layer of epoxy at approximately 6:25 is actually a layer of composite orientated at a different angle. The vast majority of this frame is highly likely fabricated with unidirectional prepreg (to reduce weight) meaning all the fibers in the prepreg ply are orientated in the same 0 degree direction. These plies then get laid up at different angles to give the laminate strength in many directions. When you cross-section a composite laid up with different angled plies, the different orientation plies appear as "rings" or layers. Depending on the orientation of the fibers to the cut, they reflect light differently hence the different appearance. Additionally, to see the cross-section (and composite plies) properly, the samples need polished with ever finer sandpaper and examined at a higher magnification than in this video. Google image search "carbon composite cross-section" and you can see many high magnification photos of this phenomenon.

Holy cow! I watch quite a few videos about how to build with carbon fiber, but seeing this stuff cut open for a change is super valuable information! There are far more people out there willing to share the knowledge about how to build with carbon fiber than there are people detailing cross sections and teaching what it mean. It's honestly a bit surprising that he's willing to go into such detail about a subject rarely documented on camera.

The question in not whether the $3000 frame better than $300 frame. The question should be, is the $300 frame good enough for 95% of the weekend riders?

Thank you Jourdain for your time and efforts! Your videos are more and more interesting! Keep going!!

I have the same year Canyon frame. Thanks for putting my mind at ease. Will I had no doubt it was an excellent frame.

Wow this is an expensive one. Thank you Rob for sharing some of your knowledge and Thank you J for going to the extra mile. Great video as always.

This is very educational, thank you for taking the time to make this video and explaining the differences

It's incredible how little material is used in some places, like the top tube for example, I mean, I know that's the whole idea of weight reduction, but the reality of it is crazy!

Thank you for doing this. It was amazing to watch and compare a Chinese frame with a brand name frame.

Thank you for the carbon fiber education 👍🙏

Thanks for the awesome video series on carbon frames! I am loving it! What always worried me is the safety of these chinese frames, but in general the Trifox at least seems to be safe. Of course they may be bulky compared to top western brands. What I think would be soo cool is comparing on the same price range…

I love this kind of content! Keep up the great work. I just found your channel and I’m glad I did.

I was talked out of buying a carbon bicycle by a specialized sales person who sold me the Crossroads 2.0 as a daily commuter and I love it. Its 31.5 US pounds or 14.29KG and only has seat post suspension, otherwise stiff aluminum frame & steel fork, with 2 chain ring gears and 7 in the cassette so 14 total gears to select :) I love the look and seems high quality :) made in Cambodia too lol

Awesome job! One word of advice, you keep saying the top tube is "tapered". It's actually called "butted" tubes. This technique is used on steel/aluminum tube as well. This is where the ends of the tube are thicker for stronger connections at bottom bracket and headset area, whereas the middle of the tubes are thinner to save weight. There are single butted, double butted, and triple butted tubes. All using the same technique.

I'm so happy the Canyon frame is actually better! 😅 I was worried I paid too much for my 2 Canyons I've got hanging out in the shed. ❤️

„Dry“ carbon does not mean that it’s delaminate easier or puncture easier Often its the other way around (as long as there is enough matrix (to cover all fibers) there is no strength, stiffness, toughness being gained by increasing the volumetric percentage of the matrix in a composite. It’s the other way around as long as every fiber is sufficiently „wetted“ less matrix means higher fiber content and more strength, stiffnessand better behavior while failing

There is an inprint near the bottom bracket of the Canyon meaning that they certainly use a solid core (like wax) as opposed to inflatable bladers like in the Trifox.

Great work as always! If you could cut a fork to compare to Trifox it would be neat, especially since that's where the biggest issue was with the X10.

The more I see carbon, the more I want a titanium frame

crabson fire!!!! lol@ "jam in the sandwich"

It's not hard to make a safe carbon frame if the process controls are well-established by the supplier. There are MANY chinese suppliers capable of building a safe product. The real hard work is tuning the frame to behave how you want it to. An automotive analog - Porsche 911 vs Chevy Camaro. They both use a lot of the same materials, and both are safe, but they both feel radically different to drive. Canyon has a proper engineering group; a lot of these unbranded chinese bikes can be and often are perfectly safe, and can often even ride well with good geometry, but the tuning of the layup is nuanced, and requires engineering work to both define all the performance requirements (it isn't often enough to be lightweight enough and safe enough) and then design the layup to accomplish those requirements. Thanks for cutting up your frames, it is always fun to see inside the tubes.

.Whether it's Canyon or Trifox, the carbon work is on the whole of a very average or even pitiful quality compared to the exorbitant price at which the frames are sold. So when smart journalists talk about "carbon aviation" it's funny. All these pieces would end up in the trash without any possible doubt. Very interesting video and so revealing of what carbon bikes are. ( sorry for the quality, it's a translation)

Similar to that of triple and double butted steel and aluminum frames. The steel and aluminum are isotropic and not the composite material, therefore material orientation is important. Tube shape will also affect the composite layup. You need to compare same shape tubes to prove your analogies.

I’m still hoping you will examine a more entry-level frame from a western manufacturer. This is the market segment that would be most interested in Chinese carbon frames. Also, could it be said that the Chinese frames are using thicker carbon because they are playing to their safety image?

I forgot to subscribe. I couldve watched this thing a bit more earlier. Regardless this is very educational. Made me thought of being a bike engineer one day maybe haha!

I wonder how many factories there are in China/Taiwan cranking-out these plastic frames in various shapes with various brand names slapped on them? I also wonder about Rob's "graveyard" - so many bikes somehow damaged to the point they're not worth repairing - what does that say about making bicycles from "black fiberglass?"

When Jourdain Coleman posts a new video I press like!

You should take all of the cut up bike frames you've acquired and epoxy them all together into a Frankenstein frame in the hopes of actually being able to put together a rolling bike?

Great video! Now do a post-2020 Time frame.

For the love of health please wear masks when cutting carbon

Even top end brands fail beyond explanation. And there are cheaper (never heard) Chinese brands that can last half a decade. Mine I bought in 2017 , repainted it recently and still going strong. Maybe im just too careful.Sometimes being so adds years to the bike.

Would be interesting if the canyon sl (not slx) frames are as good and if their carbon is less dry

I'm missing the fork comparison, since that's the most safety critical area

I could be wrong about this but I think Canyon used to use Giant for sourcing their CF frames and forks and that was probably true in 2018 but then Giant got too expensive and they moved to Quest Composites and it used to be you could see Canyon and Trek bikes on the Quest Composites site. Quest Composites are nowhere near as good as Giant in making CF frames so quite a drop in quality. If you look at the Quest Composites site and the factory images they are pretty grim to say the least. I personally wouldn't touch a Canyon or Trek with a barge pole nowadays made of CF not just because they are dire quality for the price but that factory doesn't make me very comfortable. Look at what they are sitting on, the cramped tables and the lack of air purifying to protect dust getting into the fibres. There is woman in one image who can't even wear her protective hat properly . I actually feel buying direct from China from a very good factory is much safer than buying from an importer who may change factories regularly and so quality is unknown.

One of the reasons Trifox might use a lot of CF all around would be, IMO, to dispel the myth of "Chinese products are of low quality and would not last". So at this point it's not that they are not doing RD, but they are busy establishing the reputation of a company that makes quality, long-lasting and dependable bikes. And also watching the competition - you know - what works and what doesn't, what people want and are willing to pay for etc.

about the resin or epoxy ...they problably baked the bike twice or even three times.. i worked with carbon and composite. making helmets and spoilers... the build up process of a mold can be done in layers and baked ...and worked over ..sometimes this process can take days before the finale long bake in a conclave high bar pressure oven.

The old adage remains true: you get what you pay for.

Great video. Regarding the 'dry vs. wet' carbon discussion towards the end of the video, I would be interested in Rob's opinion if those types of different manufacturing techniques are influenced by costs? Is one cheaper than the other, thus preferred based on the target price of the bike? Great content!!

Did I mis the fork cutting or was there no fork? Would have loved to see the difference with the trifox

it is sad they don't offer stiffer version of the canyon ultimate. i have one and so far so good but that would be interesting to test exactly same frame but with more thickness. but it know canyon wont give a shit about my wish.

Nice video as always.

Great imagery at 4:35 lol.

Spent about 500 miles on it and so far so good. ru-vid.comUgkxMesz3KOGEmwmvyKQfLfrRSUXLFzfVHZA Pros:1. Very light2. Solid quality build3. Fast delivery: It arrived 5 weeks earlier than expected.4. Easy assemblyJust a few cons but nothing major:1. Cheap tin tubes and had flat on first day... but not a big deal. I replaced the tubes.2. Seat is a bit uncomfortable but that's pretty much the same situation with most bikes.3. Seat post is a bit long/high for a smaller size 48 bike - had to saw 2 inch off to fit properly. The lowest setting is too high. The post locking system does not seem to hold well (perhaps because I saw 2 inch off).4. wheels are not tubeless compatible (from what I can tell)

Should read the stories and look at the pictures and videos on busted carbon with canyon alot unhappy customers getting told not getting a replacement and poor customer service care put me right off the canyon I was away to buy this week! Now looking for something else

The “wrinkling” most definitely makes a difference! Those are all stress risers where the structure is more likely to fail under stress. You most definitely get what you pay for with composite frames.

I wonder what are Robs top 5 brands of carbon bikes?

Thank you for clearly showing what I have always thought, but many refuse to believe: Chinese carbon frames are crap.

It would be interesting to see the difference compared to a very stiff and heavy track bike with tons of reinforcement to cope with the strongest riders in the world.

Be interesting to do this experiment with a winspace frame from China . They are supposed to be excellent

The moral is stick to the main brands that have R&D. Of corse it's still hard to justify $8000 for a top spec frame from an established brand 😫

Awesome job Jourdain. This is truly one of the more interesting bike content series going right now. Did you take a look at the Canyon fork to see how it compares to where the Trifox ultimately failed inspection? If I remember right, the Trifox was generally safe up until that part, yeah?

Atleast it's not like Boardman carbon bikes leaving the forming plastic bladders in the carbon that's showing when they snap!

What is the weight limit of these frames ? Would these bike be recommended to heavier riders >220lbs ? Is there a recommended maximum weight ?

What was the difference in price between the two frames 🤔

Elves vanyar framset test plish

The one thing I don't get is the references to "Western frames". How many western frames are actually made in Europe or the United States? Canyon frames are all made in Taiwan, which I would hardly consider a "western" country. Now, quality of Taiwanese manufacturing is generally better than fly by night Chinese competitors, but most "western" brands use Chinese factories to make their frames.

would you recommend to buy canyon slx?

Can you compare a western mtb frame to a road bike frame

A western frame made in Taiwan. Love it.

I wonder... Should I use an alloy frame or carbon on an indoor trainer?

I didn't know you hate bike that much😂

Awesome, I've been waiting for this video! I'm new to your channel and have been watching your videos now for a little bit, I love the content. I've been learning a lot!

Test a normal canyon frame versus the trifox, you will discover a lot of voids and worse quality than Chinese frames. Of course canyon is going to make sure their top model frame, which costs more than 10 times as the trifox, is perfect. A fair comparison for example would be a winspace SLC versus the canyon cf slx.

The comment on the seat stays was misleading……the stays largely handle or resist the twisting induced at the rear hub which forces the stays to be in tension (alternating) has a rider say climbs outta the saddle. Stays themselve do not hold the seat tube up this is the done by the front triangle. Keep in min pd carbon is fairly useless in comparison.

Super educational. Thank you!

I don't think it is just R&D. There is also QC.

Perhaps you ought to polish the sections to get a better view under the microscope - you'll see the microvoids much more easily

Guess i prefer the style of trifox frame, since it is more durable to crashes... Anyway if my Canyon Exceed CF SL 8.0 frame decide to crack some day, i will prob never buy again carbon frame bike, since i really hate fragile stuff...

many Canyon toptues snapping. maybe the lack of compression plus dry carbon = kaboom

cutting a carbon frame without respiratory ppe smells like a bad idea, for sure

You have the money and just for blings.. go carbon. But if you're serious rider and it's a part of your daily life.. go for alloy.. or have the cash for high end alloy. And you can ride and enjoy it for a long time.

Please tell us you cut up a Giant TCR as the next bike with a long carbon history and rather stable geometry and consequential relative most research and development done to it. Also for some reason you don’t see many replicas or manufacturers copy it.

The epoxy resin breaks down over the years. Keep your carbo indoors when not in use at room temperature. EDIT: spoke to a guy who runs a shop he said don’t worry about it . 👍🏼

I can't imagine why anyone would want a plastic frame. I wouldn't own any frame that isn't steel (4130 or better), not even if it were free.

Aiii. It hurts 😢

Carbon frames just doesnt feel safe to me. Period

Hmmm....cutting carbon without a mask?

There is so many mistakes here spoken with such confidence, the guy is clearly trying to sell his carbon repair business but not actually familiar with the composites

hope you (or the person who was cutting it up) was wearing a mask as carbon is not something you want to be breathing in. Thanks for the video though! very interesting

Giant bike pls

We need to compare this to an F1 carbon part. Anyone care to donate? 🤣

Seat stays and posts on busted carbon of canyons are failing alot just now

Shouldn’t this guy cutting carbon fibre be wearing a filter mask?

so I ride a carbon frame Enduro bike for 4-5 years and then what? Who is going to buy it? xD No one. Bike goes to the bin?

if its canyon its engineered , if trifox its trash.

The high end brand might start looking at your channel for what u do to their bikes 🤣🤣🤣 ... it would be a slap in their face if their bikes which are 3-5 times more expensive than the chinese brand have the same build/issue as the chinese brand.

Can you stop telling Jee, jee, jee.

Was he wearing a mask when cutting the carbon?

trifox use 4x more of carbon but cost 4x less nice real scam about carbon prices

Wait, the Germans are west now?

These cut up bike threads have become pointlessly self indulgent. I started off (different vid from you) interested, but have increasingly realised that there is no useful point to what you are doing apart from criticising materials that are not intended to be indestructible. They are a compromise of weight, compliance, strength, aesthetics, price etc and you decide what is important to you and pay accordingly. The absence of clear conclusions devalues your content and so I have unsubscribed.