I Cut My Cheap Chinese Carbon Frame in Half... Here Is What I Found! 

Checkout part one of this series here - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-iLOU0D7mSjU.html

From what I've seen, that frame looks better on the inside than my 11 year old top model Merida Time Warp.

It pains me to say it but that frame is better made than some of the top brands.

This is an incredible peak behind the curtain for carbon products in general and bar no one else is posting this information, Thank you so much.

If more videos like this are made, it would encourage more manufacturers to do better regardless of price point

That frame looks better made than many of the frames I've seen cut up by Raul at Luescher Technik. He has shown huge issues with super expensive brands. At the end of the day though carbon fibre is a hand made process with lots of potential for faults. It's the most advanced material with the least advanced manufacturing in many ways. From what I've seen that is a maybe 6 or 7 out of 10 frame. Overall good I would say. I'm not a performance cyclist though and have zero use for such a bike, I don't need to have a lightweight weak bike it serves no purpose for me and they aren't environmentally friendly. Titanium, steel and aluminium can all be fully recycled and have much better manufacturing consistency. I totally understand the appeal of CF for competitive cyclists though.

Excellent video, I built a Trifox light frame ( given at 900 grams frame only) with Shimano 105. Arrived at around 7.5 kg total, riding for the past three years. No issues so far. Bought the frame in Shenzhen directly at the factory, needless to say service is great. Got the handlebar from them as well, one piece molded.

wow, yes I'll agree with comments here, that frame is very well made for the price! The white foam bit in the fork is not epoxy, it's an insert

I learned more about carbon frame technology from this 2-part series than from any other videos on youtube! Thank you!

Great info! Thanks for sharing. I've been racing a Chinese enduro carbon frame since 2 years ago, and I've been very happy with it. Right now I'm on the 2nd frame, but I change it only to change size. No problems at all! Frame is an Ican P9, highly recommended.

Was looking forward to this, it didn't disappoint. Another great vid, thanks JC.

Please continue to do this testing. You can become the " project farm" of testers for bicycle frames.

Excellent video mate!!! Good info and explanation of the information! Thanks for doing it... I really enjoyed it! Cheers

Thanks for this video! I keep watching videos where other channels refer to something as 'cheap carbon', 'nice carbon', etc. Had no idea what that even means.

I saw both of the videos and you're doing a great job. I hope you will continue doing these kind of clips. Greetings from Chiang Mai, Thailand.

Thanks for the great examination on an import frame. It revealed a ton of great information.

Thanks for your sacrifice! 😅 My first go round with Chinese carbon I purposely bought a road frame that was a bit beefier as most failures at that time were from the frames attempting to be ultralight climbing frames. That bike served me well for thousands of miles and is still going strong on its third owner. I also rode some Chinese road and mtb wheels. Chinese carbon has come a long way. Now I have a Chinese gravel frame on order. 🎉

Many thanks for your efforts involved for your content.

the white material you found may be a milled filling foam used to wrap carbon-fiber around: you can have a shape designed to withstand force, without having to layer carbon solid

I find it hard to believe that that large white section in the fork could be solid epoxy resin that's a huge span with few voids. Given the geometry at the section is quite complex it wouldn't surprise me if an expanding syntactic foam was used. In order to get even/reliable pressure distribution to the carbon in that difficult region. Other manufacturers do this in localised areas. Depending on how restricted it is to expansion will alter its density.

Yes, I too would like to see 'branded' frames subject to this degree of inspection, but I understand the problem!!

Hands down the best bike/carbon/manufacturing video of the decade! Wow! This wad so much fun to watch. Chinese frames have never been a hotter topic than now with economics going south and price increases in combination with Chinese frames actually being rideable just a question of how good. Please continue these kind of videos ❤️❤️ you make all other RU-vidrs look like total wankers

Thank you for this awesome video. I am almost sure if you do the same detailed inspection of brand name frames , you find defects in their frame too.

we need a video like this on the Elves Falath

Thanks for another very educational video.

First, I hope you are wearing eye and breathing protection when you were doing all that cutting. Second, I'd like to know if you expect the problem with the fork to cause a catastrophic failure or more of a slow break with maybe the headset getting loose and letting you know there's a problem. Thanks for the great content.

I haven't read the comments, so I'm sure others have mentioned it, but the flex of the fork is a nonissue once the wheel is connected to it. I'm a carpenter, and I deal with wood designs from houses to furniture all the time, and this same principle is seen a lot in many structural designs. There is nothing to fear from the flex in that fork.

1) Please, if you care anything about your own health, when you're cutting carbon fiber wear a respirator and cut over a vacuum table. Carbon splinters and dust are inert particles your body doesn't register as foreign bodies and will sit in your lungs and in your own skin not actively expelled by the body's immune system. 2) It's actually fairly easy to source mainstream manufacturer bike frames to cut up. They're called warranty repair or crashed bikes. Warranty repair only requires the shop to destroy the frame, would consider what you're trying to do destructive. ;) 3) If the repair expert says the forks are likely something he doesn't feel confident in, why do you end up saying you're going to keep buying them and running them? Simply buy another reputable fork and run that. Paint/decal it however you want.

100% would love this to become a Rose Anvil style product dissection channel.

Thank you for educating us.

Very interesting video. Even these "cheap" frames are very impressive. I was thinking why don't they use stainless steel fittings for the bottle mounts?

the White section is a core, as others have pointed out. The "Jam-in-the-sandwich" are not squished epoxy but unidirectional layers,

Hey man ever thought of cutting an eleves falath frame in half next time? since im now curious regarding how the frame is built. Its okay if you dont haha. Anyways nice video im getting hooked into this.

Now i wanna see you cut up the elves or the New falath evo and have Rob analyse it. Convince elves its good marketing stunt to donate their brand New frame for testing

Both Hambini and Lukas Euscher (sp?) have demonstrated that Western frame, coming from the same factories, are prone to some of the same problems.

So sounds like the best bet would be to to get only a frame by Trifox, and fork from another brand?

Phew! I was just about to pull the trigger on this frame! Thanks 😊

really impressive ... Thanks for the informations

Thanks for sharing man. This video made me subscribe to your channel. I’m looking around and doing research about these type of frames to build a every day race bike. I was looking at the Trifox X16 and 18 also at the Elves and the Velobuild. I believe the Velobuild is cheap but with a good reputation. What about you do a review just like this one? I’ve learned that the VB-R 177 has a higher quality carbon level comparing with the VB-R 168 Thanks ones again Greetings from Curacao 🇨🇼 ✌🏽

Thanks for taking the time and associated costs to inform your audience of the quality of lower cost frames. The thermodynamics of moisture inside the frame without suitable egress is concerning to observe. Couple that with the use of dissimilar ferrous with nonferrous fasteners creating electrolysis and hastening oxidation. Better standards for fasteners and ventilation are in order.

How much lateral flex is that fork really going to experience once there is a thru-axle screwed through there?

Thank you for this

do you mask up when grinding or just hold breath ?

It is not as simple as saying that the white layer is epoxy. The epoxy is everywhere. The white layer could be glass, or a thickened epoxy ( syntactic), to bulk up the laminate.

I always lubricate all screws that thread into the frame because the methods of removing a frozen bolt/screw (solvents, lubricants, tapping, drilling, high torque loads) can damage the frame. Cut a Time and Look apart; the story I have heard is that they are some of the best

Why do you do THIS. Ride it ! 🤩 Regards from Germany. 🙂👍🤓

Cheap and quality are 2 words that are worlds apart. Trace Velo had a Trifox frame which he threw in the bin.....says it all really

Very interesting video with a lot of good insights about carbon bicycle frame construction. There was one thing that struck me hard though - seeing a person cutting through the carbon reinforced material with no gloves, and presumably, no mask as well. That is extremely ignorant and can be dangerous in the long run. When machining, carbon reinforced material does not turn into powder, but into micro needles which can penetrate skin and tissues in our respiratory system easily. Our bodies don't recognize carbon as foreign dangerous material and don't attempt to shed it.

Great video. This bike has endorsement from Hambini and Rob was loving it but then he turns heel pretty fast, and yourself as well🤔🤔 Then you and Rob run to Elves as Everyone did, and like Cam found out they are completely inconsistent..The Trifox looks way more robust than the likes of Giant etc 👍👍👍

It looks like Trifox are making serious attempt to make decent frames, so I wonder did you show them your video? Would be interesting to hear what they have to say about the potential flaw on an otherwise pretty solid frame.

This is cool. Do a trek. I love the treks but that price is getting up there. Would love to see what Im paying for.

As seen in the vid, the frame is good for its value, its just that the fork had some issues. To conclude, if I was to buy the frame only and a better carbon fork, would I be more safe than haveeing the stock fork from the frame set?

Have a Trifox X16 for 2 years, 6.8kg without luxury parts. Got hit by a car from behind, very nasty hit and run, my rear wheel cracked off course and the frame is still absolutely perfect. I did not believe it survived this massive shock, the frame is really super strong, even weightneing 865g (49cm). Trifox is a great brand.

thanks for this video

I'm riding a cheap Ican frame, it is simply amazing, a lot of bang for my buck

Yes Jourdain 👏🏾

For this test to have any validity you would have to cut up a number of frames from that production run. Shoddy manufacturing can mean sloppy construction, inconsistent construction, or both - among other factors like poor QC etc.

Glad I went with Ti instead of plastic.

I wonder how the Winspace frames look. Got my subscription

I make kitchen cabinets, and I can relate how you can want quality for cheaper prices, but in the real world, it doesn't work like that, at least in mine.

YOU DID A SANDY MUNRO JOB IN CARBON BIKES INDEED WELL DONE...

wow this is great, but my request is can you do this to ELVES FRAME like Falath Or Vanyar to see the real quality.

At the same time, your one was the best one

Thanks!

interesting video👍

Its made the same as specialized and trek and giant

You just earned a subscriber.

Cut up a top end frame and compare......

A very interesting and informative video. Regardless of the frame quality, I personally would prefer to buy non-Chinese products all together. Simply because we have allowed technology to be transferred to China, just to satisfy our desire for cheaper products. I just don’t want to support their economy but prefer to buy European if possible and secondly non Chinese. It would be interesting to see how a “western” frame stack up.

I've had more than a fair share of carbon stuff fail. Not all the stuff I've owned has failed because I got ride of it before it failed. But I am 100% convinced that carbon doesn't belong on a bicycle. The bike I have chosen to build is titanium, and the components I've chosen to put on it are made of metals not carbon. I am only stuck with one part left made of carbon and that is the fork. I am searching for someone that can make me a fork design I like, one that looks like the ENVE I have, and I will pay any amount to get it done. I know my bike is heavy and not what I would choose if I was a racer but I don't race. I just want to ride a beautiful bike safely. Your videos exposing the carbon truths are fantastic and I only wish that anyone and everyone considering spending thousands of dollars on a new bike would watch your videos before buying a carbon bike. There is nothing wrong with steel, aluminum, and titanium bikes other than people just think they don't look as cool as carbon. What do they want a bike that is cool and probably won't last 10 years or a bike that is safe and actually worth laying down that hard earned cash. You deserve some type of award for making these videos because they are very educational and well done. 👍👍

Dude you remind me of Owen Hargreaves. Please tell me the guy dremeling that frame had a mask on and I mean a real good mask. Carbon fiber dust is a very dangerous (very carcinogenic) thing to be breathing in. 9:52 that totally caught me off guard hahaha *Sheldon*

Maybe if people out there have old carbon frames they are not using or have a frame that got damaged and they don’t use they could send to you for deconstruction.

Great finally see a frame cut in half to see the inside and have an expert opinion. Are you gonna do the same with the defy and the elves for comparison? 😂

Good job

They put a lot of effort into making the whole bike safe so I wouldn't write off the fork straight away. We still don't know what those white bits are. The black stuff is thin, but the white bits they're stuck to are thick.

Those forks become an assembly once the wheel is installed, so squeezing the fork legs in that direction doesn't make much sense.

Hi, great video. Now liked and subscribed. Sorry to be the fun police, but just wanted to add, if you're cutting or grinding carbon you need to wear a dust mask to the correct rating. Carbon dust, when inhaled, is a known carcinogenic 👍🏻

I want to buy a java lancia gravel carbon but i dont know if is legit it cost around $1800k from ali express

Interesting and informative. So, it seems... frame good, fork bad.

I've had this frame since 2020. I ride it as hard as i can and try to break it so it gives me an excuse to buy a new frame. It's still going strong with zero cracks. Seems like they are focusing on the negatives of the frame on the 1st video and this one. It's been working fine for regular people like me that ride their bike everyday. "It's not aero" who cares about that when majority of people riding bikes are not racing. Plus wind blows in different directions. Can you be aero 360 degrees all the time? LOL. It's kinda racist when you say these Chinese people don't know how to design a frame. You don't know their background. You can view it as they designed this frame to minimize cost so they can pass the savings to consumers. This is actually a cool looking frame. Who really is ripping you off, the company who sells you a $500 frame or another who sells a $3000 frame with all the same ingredients but different form? Carbon frames degrade over time, i rather pay less per frame. I also believe there is a law that frames are required to have a strength tolerance in order to sell in western countries.

Hmm, so what is the difference between a ''cheap chinese'' and a ''expensive chinese'' carbon frame? Would you say that Trek carbon bikes have a cheap or expensive chinese carbon frame?

People need to distinguish between Taiwan and Mainland China. There is a difference in quality.

steel is real.. ;) * dan looks at his Chinarello

Chop up a Colnago ya [ok I couldn’t say that] “chicken”. Off the shelf too, not one they send you. 👍 Great vid

I'm not an expert or anything, but at 10:55 you highlight the fact that there is a big problem with the thickness of the carbon fiber in that area and therefore expert Rob would not endorse that frame for that "defect". But it is also observed that there is a large amount of epoxy which, in my opinion, would reinforce all that part, since it is not hollow and if the carbon fiber were to split, that same epoxy would not allow it to split completely and would remain firm. So if the concern is the millimeter thickness of that "defect", then what can you tell me about the thickness of the carbon fiber rims that support the entire weight of the person and the bicycle? I hope you can answer this question because as I said at the beginning I am not an expert in this matter and I would appreciate any comments. I congratulate you for these videos with very important content such as knowing the structure and the demonstrated engineering of these frames in CF for the enjoyment of all of us who are interested in these topics.

I have a trifox X18, and it goes fine in a straight line, but it does wonky stuff in a turns (when not even near the limit either). It is not confidence inspiring at all. Not a bike that can be raced. Probably fine if you are just doing straight fast group rides without many turns.

Wow, Bruce Dickinson appears at 1:15!

As smart as this may seem, to destroy the frame. You can also slide a tiny camera inside the from and check it all out with out ruining it.

You know what I'm honestly dying to know. Why have mountain bike frames gotten so heavy in the past 3 years. I would love to see a cut-up because I bet you anything they are using lower grades of carbon to save $$ and also more of it

Have you increased you iCloud storage yet?

This is funny, but the manufacturing process I developed using water borne epoxy strengthened the tube corners. The secret is external instead of internal compression.

Why not use a broken (run over?) frame for inspection?

Surely, Rob must get his hands on high-end current frames that have been accident damaged beyond repair. How about cutting some of those up, considering there is no expense to purchase?

Please cut up a Seraph CF gravel bike frame from TAN TAN…..I have two and happy so far.

Most Western brand frames are made in China of Taiwan; even some very expensive and beautifully crafted Titanium frames are made in China. Ultimately you "get what you pay for" when you go ch=eap, but sometimes you also get crap for a high price. That fame is actually a bargain, and you could install a better fork if that is the weak point.

Would not surprise me in the least to see all manufactures have similar issues.

Imagine Chinese or Taiwanese frame builders cutting their frames in half like cut up apples for inspection before purchasing.

Exactly why I never bought into the whole carbon fiber thing.

It's just such a shame that basically all the time it's like: Oh this looks decent for the price, then on the end.... The one most important spot, an essential stress point of the fork: fail....My personal question: when did you order the frame? Was that shortly after/before Chinese newyear? Edit: Also curious if you contact the manufacturer and what their response is.

It would be HIGHLY INTERESTING to do a top frame...