I read an article a long time ago about this idea, written by a friend of Desi Arnaz, which is all I've ever be able to find that treated the topic with more than cursory dept. Haven't seen it since. If anyone does please post it. Anyway, the idea for the series was actually from one of the Desilu executives in charge of Pilot Development. It was his job to come up with ideas for potential pilots which could then be pitched to the networks or into first run syndication (which was fairly common then). The idea went as far as CBS (who most believe was actually where the original idea came from, having been broached in 1956 when Arnaz, over strong and serious objections from the network, decided he was going to the monthly one-hour format. CBS figured Arnaz was trying to back out of 'I Love Lucy' and thought a series with the Mertz' would be a strong replacement) who told Arnaz they would buy it after script approval. This got Arnaz buzzing. Figuring the hour-format had not been well received by Frawley and Vance, and knowing it was his fault, Arnaz went to Frawley and the two discussed the idea at a nearby bar. Frawley said he'd do it, but said 'Cuban, you're going to need all your charm to get Vance to agree'. Arnaz reached her at home and had her come in on some pretext. There he proposed the series idea. Before he could finish she told Arnaz that she didn't care to work with Frawley anymore. He knew the two had issues but didn't believe she would turn down this kind of career offer. He tried to interest her by offering a great deal of money and billing plus other benefits (such as TBD specials and possibly film work at Desilu) but Vance held firm: no Frawley. When that idea went south Arnaz tried to interest Vance in her own series sans Frawley. Even that proved difficult. Casting her to star in a new series, 'Guestward Ho', a show written almost custom made for her and based on the real Iife experience she had in New Mexico, Vance bombed during pre-filming rehearsals and had to be replaced. She never did manage to 'get out from under Ball's shadow' and have her own success. The idea of using her was dropped. It was clear that Arnaz had no desire to offer Frawley his own series, as he did for Vance, and almost as soon as 'Comedy Hour' ended Frawley landed the role of 'Bub' on 'My Three Sons'. He stayed with the series until being removed for health reason mid-way thru season #5. After a brief cameo with Ball on 'The Lucy Show' he passed away in 1965. Vance went on to star in that same series. However, her overall distaste for the business and her seeming failure to prosper away from Ball, led her to leave the series after season 3. From there out she would appear in a number of episodes each season with Ball, but never again to be under 'the Boss' full-time. She passed away in 1979, having been out of active acting since leaving Ball's series in 1965. Arnaz firmly believed that a series about the Mertz' would have been a hit. The network was behind it as well, prepared to offer big bucks to have it on CBS. Writers were already working on outlines for possible plots. As someone noted here, the series would have to make a move. Since Ball and Arnaz had no plans to act together, the series would have to go on without their direct involvement. It would have to have some sort of connection to them but go on without their ever popping up in an episode. The Mertz' would probably have to leave the guest house in Connecticut and move back to the old building New York. There they would be able to reconnect with some of the tenants from the 'ILL' days as well as introduce new cast to round it out. I don't see finding a series theme all that hard. However, the question hanging over it would always be 'where are Lucy, Ricky and Little Ricky?'. I can think of many ideas myself, such as having Ricky return to Hollywood and their deciding to keep Little Ricky in school back east. It would be a great plot arch to have Lucy and LR visit the Mertz in NY and, true to her character, decide to move back to NY and their old apartment. And so on...
Oppenheimer wasn't in the picture when the series ended, he had left years earlier and went to work for NBC. He had zero insight or direct knowledge into what was going on between CBS and Desilu. By this time he and Arnaz weren't even speaking, and their dislike was mutual. No way Arnaz would let JO in on his inside Desilu business. Arnaz offered a series to the Vance and Frawley, that's well known and is written about in all of the Lucy books. Vance rejected the idea. Frawley went to another Desilu based series. Writers were working on an outline for a series titled 'The Mertz'', and CBS had promised it a spot in their line-up. William Paley figured it as a sort of compensation for Arnaz/Ball divorcing and forcing 'Lucy' off the air. Don't forget, CBS lost millions from that. Not to mention future considerations had the series ended in a more normal fashion. It's all academic today, but the writers were stuck on how to factor the 'Lucy/Desi' factor into a new 'Mertz' series. It's not fiction at all. If you get a chance, and are near San Diego State, stop by their library and ask to see the Desi Arnaz Archives. This subject is covered in a lot of detail in his personal notes, Desilu documentation and various memos between the principles, such as Paley at CBS and the Desilu executives. It's good stuff to read.
I heard about the possible spin of with The Mertzes. I didn’t know all the rest of this posted. I did know however that VV turned down the offer because she disliked WF and had no desire to work with him longer than she had to. WF was game because he knew that they would do well together, and it would be a hit ,which would extend his career. I believe that the show would have done well for awhile, but I believed that the cast of ILL was the reason behind everyone’s success. I don’t think that it would have lasted that long because Arnaz, and Ball would be out of the loop. I’m glad that it never happened because the characters of Fred and Ethel went on to an ever lasting legacy. They left on top.
@@donaldberg4015 yes she and Desi where fighting backstage and so where Fred and Vivian. Desi said thats why the last 3 seasons where much shorter: longer episodes in exchange for much fewer in number. Vivian and Fred where done and he and Lucy where on the edge by season 7. She just signed the divorice papers just before the final episode.
@@donaldberg4015 completely agree. It brought tears to my eyes. To be so completely in love to divorced is very difficult to swallow even for outsiders.
I love the show as much as everyone else but when I saw “the lucy show” and “here’s lucy” it wasn’t as funny or interesting even though Vivian was there. Just the four of them together made a great combination for a casts. Seeing the Mertz have there own show would be interesting but doubt it would have had a big impact without the Ricardo’s.
Lucille Ball was also hard to direct. Desi could manage her, but successors couldn’t. The later shows were definitely inferior, though the Viv episodes were better.
I think the chemistry and popularity the four of them had together was so great that without Lucy and Dezi it just have not been the same in a spin-off.But it was a good idea .
I don’t know about a spin-off for the Mertz’s. They are amazing actors though. Imagine working with someone you don’t like, as your spouse. That must have been hard for both of them, but you never saw that on the screen.
I read that the dislike between the two started when William overheard Vivian telling Lucy and Desi that no one will believe she's "married to that old coot." William never forgave her and a mutual disdain was born. I recall hearing Fred Mertz being described as an "old coot" on one of the episodes, which is ironic. If the idea was to ease the tension between the two, why would they even put that in the script.
Oh wow ! I never knew this. It would have been interesting to see where that could have gone. It may have even helped the relationship grow positive. Too bad.
I think it would’ve been interesting to see a show centered around the Mertzes, since they were comical as well. But if Bill Frawley and Vivian Vance didn’t get along, maybe it was got the best that it didn’t come to fruition. Despite their own issues, Desi Arnaz and Lucille Ball were the force that kept them being able to work together.
I agree with Vance that a spin-off series would not have worked. Vance was ready to move on with her career, especially in theater. (But then Ball talked her back to appearing on The Lucy Show.) Frawley ended up in My Three Sons until he had to leave the show due to illness and then died quite suddenly.
Though I may be wrong, I don't think so. So correct me if I am wrong. Yeah, I Love Lucy episodes were 30 minutes long. Though in reality, they were really less because of all the commercials in between. Which made the episodes much more enjoyable; because one would not have been as bored (though they were very funny and entertaining) to view the whole episode if it were to be 1 hour long.(just in case you would have had another episode back to back) as far as having a spin-off, I would believe that most people would tuned in to see what it was all about. But to be honest with you, after several episodes even though the writing would/may have been better, I'm sure some people would still view it, but I'm sure it would not have been as popular as the half hour I Love Lucy episodes; unless of course, it would have been cut down to a half hour per episode. Or once in a blue moon 1 hour television special on the "Mertze's"if you stop and think about it, if you look at the track record on other television shows, when they have spinoffs, they were okay, but most of the time, though not always, the original was much better.
As much as I loved Fred and Ethel on I Love Lucy, I don't think they would have been successful without the dynamic of Lucy and Ricky. They all work so well together.
Based on what you saying they wanted to do "Archies Place" long before Archie bought a bar. Not sure how that would have worked out cause Cheers was a success but Archie's Place just jumped the shark. I think a better idea and more modern... Little Ricky inherits the building and him and spouse have to deal with not only fixing the place up but staying financially solvent at the same time
This just goes to show how Desi Arnaz and Lucy were ahead of their time introducing the idea of spin-offs. I'm not so sure the Mertzes would have survived on its own. Their special chemistry with the Ricardos is what made the original so special. Without the Ricardos, I'm not sure viewers would enjoy watching Ethel and Fred bicker and fight for half an hour each episode. Better to leave things they are. Even later the various incarnations of Lucy couldn't quite replicate the original magic of I Love Lucy.
I wonder if “The Mertzes” became a show, if it would have been successful. “I Love Lucy” was by far the greatest sitcom of all time but I am curious to know if it was thought to be at the time. Regardless, spin-off shows are rarely successful. The shows that I’m aware of that had spinoffs, only lasted a season and the ratings plummeted. Hard to say what would have happened with a spinoff to Lucy but I do wish they would have tried. Fred and Ethel were my favorites. But it was the four of them that made the show. Just doing a show with the Mertzs would probably not have been enough.
I think Vivian Vance was very unfair to William Frawley in disliking him cause of his age. She took her anger out on someone just like her trying to become a star in Hollywood. I never saw her as looking older, if anything I saw him as looking younger by being pared with Vivian. She allow something so trivia to turn a part of her dark and also honestly, I always thought Vivian was more Pretty then lucy was and you can see that when their living in the house, in those last 2 season, Vivian dressed up really nice and didnt dress in dumpy clothes. Maybe William should had been like, Hey Viv, you make me look younger cause your so pretty.. They could have had a nice friendship had she not been so vain.. I really liked her as a actress but when I learn of how she dislike him so much over something he has no control over, it kinda made her look different to me
i agree. after reading about how the enmity between them began, i think ethel could've overlooked fred's personal flaws and tried getting along with him, heck, even be a good friend to him, not just for the sake of the show, but to feel more at ease around each other. i definitely would've loved to watch a spin-off about them and even see them attempt to bring lucy and ricky back into the picture, hopefully reconciling them in real life. i blame ethel for giving up the chance of a potential television series becoming successful and maybe even memorable if only she had swallowed her pride and gotten to know fred's good side.
What do you think of this new content? This is the start of weekly videos, alternating between Are You Interested and Disney Declassified. I'd love your opinions!
I don't think it would have worked out anyway, were they gonna be landlords yet again. Vivian Vance actually shot a pilot for her own series as a hotel owner and CBS passed on it.. Desilu was hurting for money and a hit show by 1962 because many of its shows were being canceled. Lucy agreed to do another sitcom in order to raise money for the studio. She agreed to do it only if Vivian Vance would join her. Vivian agreed only if she were the co-star and playing a completely new character not named Ethel and she wanted a better wardrobe and makeup.. Many episodes of The Lucy Show are classic such as the shower install and tv antenna install episodes. Once they changed the concept of the show and had Lucy working as a secretary for Mr. Mooney, the ratings took off especially the last 2 seasons.
Vivian Vance:"I really don't think a spin off would work with Lucy and Desi." Also she hated Bill Frawley. You notice on the show that despite all the kaos, that Lucy and Ricky always gave the impression that they liked one another. Ethel and Fred gave no indication they liked each other! Vivian Vance was particularly upset when fans assumed that-because Lucy and Desi were a married couple in reality, that she and Bill Frawley were a married couple in reality also!
I would have loved to seen the mertz go it alone .not so sure how it would be with out Ricky &Lucy.If Fred &Etjel had liked each other.I believe their show would have been a hit.
There was a LA Times article which stated that William Frawley had a one night stand with Vivian Vance in the second season. After the fling, they had a hard time working together.
That would have been interesting to watch but some spinoffs don't always work an example Three's Company , The Ropers & Three's A Crowd, but as for The Lucy Show & Here's Lucy both shows were extremely funny and did very well. I still enjoy the reruns. 🙂
I would have definitely liked to see a show featuring the mertzes. Who knows what could have been? Every one on that show was very funny I think. It's too bad they didn't get along. It just goes to show you that happens to everyone,and we think we're the only one.
Matt, Please let me know why Desi Arnaz, Vivian Vance and William Frawley are not in the Hollywood Walk of Fame? They definitely should be there... The Mertz’’ might have flown, but - I don’t know - those four are forever stuck together in tv forever-land. Thank you, God bless,
Now I know they began to fall out when she copped an attitude about having an older man play her husband, but was it that she deeply hated him just because of that? Or, did Frawley constantly retaliate and never let up? I heard he had a really bad temper.
I like I Love Lucy as it was, and is my favorite TV show. The Mertzes is a cute idea, but it wouldn't have been the same without Lucy and Desi. It also probably wouldn't have worked because Vivian Vance and William Frawley disliked each other so much.
Would have been interesting to say the least. But Vivian should have at least give it a shot. 🙂 All and all Ricky Lucy Fred Ethel We're the bomb. 👍😀😁😂😃😄😅
This is a perfect example of how people can mess something up that could’ve been great. She could’ve played both roles or this role and picked up some other shows
even if both main parties were interested i think their dislike for one another would have been felt thereby sinking it right out of the gate. not sure it could have worked without the ricardos, too. it was what it was.
@@TheMusikryder I disagree. Fred and Ethel often seemed annoyed with each other. In a way, it was part of their charm. I could see that atmosphere being an ongoing element in the series. These two are perpetually cranky with each other, and yet they stay together. In a way, it proves there was love. I just don't see what types of stories they could do with Fred and Ethel, tho'. So much of I Love Lucy was based on Lucy Ricardo being so bizarre a personality, what could the Mertzes do to match that level of comedy?
I don't think it would have worked well. They might have been good on another show, but they were destined to play second fiddle to somebody else. I think it might have worked in the new Lucy show even, without Desi, with Frawley playing a minimal role, but it seems sad to me that he and Vivian were such enemies in life off the camera.
Funny every source on ILL mentioned this dislike between Vance and Frawley . And I have heard about spinoff before ,Vance not wanting to do this but Frawley willing to hold his nose and do it for money . But they did make appearances together at one of the Eisenhower presidential balls, singing their CAROLINA IN THE MORNING duet in 1953. Also playing husband and wife in a Climax episode supporting Marguerite Piazza and Tony Martin . Of course this was about baseball , Frawley's great love , He portrayed the baseball manager but does not explain Vance's participation as the wife . Of course they made joint publicity appearances with Lucy and Desi.
I would never have watched the Mertzes. Their characters constantly bad mouthed each other. Fred was a cheapskate who always called Ethel fat. They were negative and nothing about them was an incentive to watch. I can't believe that Desi thought they could carry a show alone. Lucy and Ricky fought and loved. You could count on one hand the number of times that happened for Fred and Ethel with them taking a romantic stroll around the ship in the moonlight or Fred doing major sucking up because he thought Ethel suddenly got rich.
Desi was definitely WRONG about the hour-long "I Love Lucy" episodes! They were far weaker than the half-hour episodes! I think most viewers and critics would agree with this. Part of their weakness sprung from much less screen time for Fred and Ethel.
Although I liked the Mertzes, and perhaps it would have been a good show in general. I don't think I personally would have cared for it as I did for I Love Lucy. It was the Ricardos' presence and companionship that made the Mertzes. It would have been, to me, what "Mama's Family", with only Vicky Lawrence's "Mama" ("Thelma"), without Eunice and Ed Higgins, was. It was Carol Burnett's Eunice that helped to make Mama who she was. Because, on the "Mama's Family" series, Mama became so docile and not so humorously cranky as she was on The Carol Burnett Show. I think the same probably would have occurred with The Mertzes. Speculatively speaking.
Wow I'm a big I Love Lucy fan and I followed a lot with that show and the continued of Lucy and Desi show together but I never knew they were going to have a Mertz show with Ethel and Fred but they couldn't cuz I never got along behind the camera which I knew that but I didn't know that they were going to have the Meets spin off show
That last shot of Lucy & Desi kissing in the Ernie Kovacs episode of the hour-long series, was sad, because the two were already in the process of divorce. Edie Adams recalled that they spoke to each other Only through production assistants on the set.
on the other hand Desi was the director for that episode, and it took him a while to shout cut, in fact Lucy had to tell him too, . lovely that after the divorce they became very good friends and spent much time together with thier children and grandchildren. .
would love too see the mertz spin off that would make tv history but Thier bickering of one another didn't help n it never got off the ground it would of been intresting
The writers apparently had difficulty in writing the last episode. They knew it would be the last, but they didn't want to acknowledge it in the writing. Ernie Kovaks had one brief comedic scene, but beyond that was given little to do. Edie Adams, his wife, had a song, which the producers told her "just sing whatever song you like", and by coincidence, she chose a song called "That's All." Lucy and Desi were not speaking to each other, so they had few scenes together, and Lucy, in turn, had little to do that was comedic. Lucy, understandably, wasn't up to doing anything really funny, so the writers did the best they could to get what they could out of Lucy. I'm not sure The Mertzes would've worked very well in a spinoff... it would be the equivalent of giving the Ropers their own show. There's just not much to do with a couple with a husband who is tired and a wife desperately trying to get his attention. I could see a show where they play off Fred's being cheap, but then we'd just get a Jack Benny wannabe premise.
Like the comparison to 'The Ropers'. Ironic, Ball made her guest appearance on 'Threes Company' and it's special anniversary episode. I actually think 'The Mertz'' would have carried on just on the goodwill from the years on 'Lucy' and attracted a strong connection with that audience. I agree with the writers having a hard time factoring in Ricky and Lucy into the plot. They couldn't just pretend they didn't exist. And, would have to prepare some sort of strong backstory to explain what happened to them. One of 'The Bob's' (writers, can't recall which one) said, at the time, no plans for anything had been made in advance of the 'Comedy Hour' ending and that Arnaz approached them afterwards and asked for an outline. Right away. They figured the idea had come down from CBS, who were trying to salvage something from the series demise. Given the facts as we know them today, you'd think Arnaz would have had something in place for the day when they divorced. Something that didn't directly involved him and Ball but would in some vicarious way carry on without them. I think the whole thing would have depended on the chemistry between 'Fred and Ethel'. Which, we know now, was more like a nuclear bomb lab.
sardu55 I’ve heard about “The Mertz’s” before and I always assumed the plot would revolve around them moving back to their apartment building . This would be the excuse not to show Lucy or Ricky, at least no more than a guest appearance here or there and they could have storylines revolving around Fred’s job as a super and comedic situations with him being cheap. Example Episode plot: Fred needs to install new pipes in Mr. Johnson’s apartments. He has to decide between the $10 and $40 one, goes with $10 and now Mr. Johnson’s apartment is flooding. Hilarity ensues.
Excellent video! I always suspected that Fred and Ethel never really kissed! This can be observed especially in the jail scene. The kiss between those two looked so contrived.
Yessir. William Frawley was hilarious with Vivian Vance. From what I have read, Frawley was just a grouchy old guy in real life. He did not have to act to play his part. It came naturally, LOL.
If Frawley wanted to do the spin off it means he didn't hate Vance. His ego was bruised that Vance didn't fancy him and being a weak character, he decided to act like a spoilt brat.
In my opinion the DesiLu's hour long show was a loser, the Mertzes most likely would have been the same. Nothing can even come close to an ICONIC show like " I Love Lucy"
Just what could they do with Fred and Ethel as the main characters, tho'? And since the Mertz's had moved from NYC to Connecticut, living in the Ricardo's guest house, how would they explain never seeing Lucy and Ricky on the new show? I'm not against the idea. I just wonder how it could have been handled.
From what I heard they were going to go back to the apartment, which is a lousy idea. I rather the show end with the 4 together forever than the Mertz's cutting ties with the Ricardo's. It would kind of be depressing that they decided to go separate ways.
I could only believe if this had come to fruition,they would have needed to make it more like some other sitcoms without all the physical humor in I Love Lucy.A good example would be Benson spinning off from Soap.Whereas Soap was a parody of serial drama,Benson was more like other sitcoms with few continuing storylines.
It would have bombed. Eventually without supplemental or ensemble cast Frawley and Vance would have had to carry the show alone. He was constantly negative and belittling Vance. How often is her yelling "FRED!" or him telling her she's fat going to be funny? The characters were great companions but not leaders. In fact, the Ethel character was smarter than Lucy if not from IQ then life experience because she would generally tell Lucy her plan wouldn't work. Her problem was she was a follower and could always be convinced by bribery or blackmail to go along with Lucy. Followers don't star in their own show.
nice video keep up the good work! too bad Vance and frawley had their differences I think the mertzes would have been a cute spin off and I think it would have sustained maybe not as long as the I Love Lucy series but they were too funny characters Married together in their apartment by themselves but I I think the four of them together is what made the whole I Love Lucy series kittygurl
nothing in life is perfect. no one can get along perfectly with another 24/7 . things happen. but to answer your question, i liked it the way it ended better. i will always remember these four and these great characters just the way they were. i never really care what goes on off camera. this was the single greatest sitcom ever. great video.
No; it would have been like "The Ropers". Lasting maybe one season, and then dying. Fred & Ethel needed both Lucy & Ricky, and visa versa. It was the chemistry, of all four actors, which helped America "Love Lucy".
