It's wild how I actually hear the instrumental better when the EQ is actively cutting those frequencies. Even on my laptop speakers. It's a massive difference.
I do not believe you. I'd be willing to bet that if you did a blind test, you'd fail. Try hearing for a difference without being influenced by the EQ jiggling.
I have been producing for a long time, not a professional by any means though. This makes a huge difference I have to try this. I use a lot of multiband plugins and it gets a similar effect, but this really seems worth using the Fabfilter Q Pro. Most multibands just have a couple points and this really made a huge difference.
It also works with soothe2... and better. You just put it at the end of the instrumental track, and send a vocal sidechain into the plugin. Then adjust reduction intensity and overall q. It is way more precise cause it follows the vocal frequencies on real time and compress those areas.
Yes, soothe2 is great, and useful. But its price is the price of a new house in Dubai. Only for rich. Seiously, its now 199$... a casual hobbyst cannot afford it.
@@tiborreszegi6185 You can get it with discount price ($120 I believe, Pro-Q is around $169) a few times a year. The other option is Trackspacer, that you can get at $40 on discount.
Side chaining is too difficult for me, although I have Soothe 2. I needed it for improving the vocal track, but I don’t fully understand the side chaining process in this vocal track!
I’ve been mixing a track from a live band recording from a gig, and although I have really clean stems with minimal bleed, I was losing something of the ‘live’ feel with the vocal not sitting right. I was making some headway with ducking some of the melodic instruments, but doing this with FF fixed it straight away, and I mean instantly. Very grateful mate, too TOP tip
I've been mixing over 3 years now and never seen anyone do this before! This is very advanced and I'm so thankful I've come across this video because I love learning new things about mixing everyday! I'll go to sleep tn fulfilled because of this video. THANK YOU
@@BR_READDY225 Yes, have to admit (as it wasn't obvious) - was stock in Melda/Izotope/UAD etc world for too long :) Haven't notice the new huge universe right in front of me :)
TrackSpacer is what did it for me. I wanted to have something like it for a decade but it’s useful to notice what needs to be cut when making room manually on tracks separately (usually it’s the pads and lead synths that need room on vocal range 250hz, 500hz, 1khz, 2k roughly). Just a bit of TrackSpacer on those tracks usually is the answer and a short cut to make the mix sit better.
Do you prefer TrackSpacer or this way? I do love Trackspacer more for my reverb and some instruments but this pro q 3 version seems to be working nicely these days. I guess maybe more control? Also do you play with the attack on TrackSpacer as well? Thank you.
@@konumusic I usually set Trackspacer and then leave it as it is. It's great for digging out space for vocals when treating instruments, a little 10-12% in the midrange usually does enough 👌 I haven't tried Pro Q 3 but it sounds good.
A more custom trackspacer. Dope! Thanks Streaky! Want next level? Try the same thing with a mid-side play. Instrumental “sides” will bloom and sound wider.
Sorry for necro post, but this sounded super interesting. I have just recently managed to get really sweet sounding acoustic guitar recordings with M/S, would be fun to try to tweak this even more. Would your advice apply also for acoustic guitar, blooming the stereo "sides", or would side chain ducking of a same-recording (different mic) mid just kill off the mid? If I understand correctly I use the side channel(s) to duck the volume of the mid channel, so that the side channels gets more space for their characteristic, and that I may be able to achieve this more simpler with trackspacer (until I learn the more detailed approach of this video).
This guy is the real deal 💯 Just bookmarked and created an account on his website. Gonna be my one-stop shop for learning mixing and mastering for the next few months
This is fantastic. Was having exactly this issue and following your instruction, I've now got vocals that sit really well within the mix. I was also able to reduce the vocal stem by 3dB which is quite extreme. Great advice as always. Thank you, Streaky
when should I apply this technique, at the start of mixing my vocals with the beat? Or first I should finish processing my vocals and everything and then I should apply this?
I have one beginner question, when should I apply this technique, at the start of mixing my vocals with the beat? Or first I should finish processing my vocals and everything and then I should apply this?
@@mukeshpathak7302you can do both. But i'd rather do this after i process the vocals and export them for mastering... this comfort me that i wont mix the vocals again
The autopilot to find the frequencies is a very nice trick! But you can do it also with TDR Nova GE for 6 bands, though it is not linear phase, but under 1-2 dB this should not matter too much. With the free Nova you can manually adjust 4 frequencies, that you find in the spectral display, and better than nothing, depends on the vocal, how it may vary.
@@mgmthegrand not sure about Kirchhoff. but did you not demo the Nova GE? creates it's own kind of points, then you can adjust everything. for me, it worked very well a couple of times, when there was room resonance in a mic, especially vocals and room mics for drums (that have so much resonance you can't find the forest for the trees).
@@marcrobertson4735 Put soothe2 on the instrumental track and set the sidechain to your vocal bus, then listen for the frequency range that is most dominant/resonant in your vocals, pull those bands up and soothe2 will basically start working like a sidechain dynamic EQ to duck those frequencies in the instrumental, thus carving space for your vocals. If you want to take a step further, changing it to mid only will also help the vocals sit better.
I've been using trackspacer to do this for the last year or so, but this seems like a much more detailed, accurate way of doing it. Great video, thanks.
Good idea for a vocal chained to an individual instrument. Pros will mostly mix from stems though, so most of that frequency adjusting is done thru the instruments/effects directly. A multi band would be better if applied to a full beat like this, so you can dial in exactly how and when each freq. band is pushed and pulled. ProMB is great for that!
Alternatively, just use Trackspacer set between 5 and 10%. Also amazing for film/TV music so the dialogue and sound FX duck the music out the way. It’ll stop whoever is mixing the final audio from constantly turning down your music
I have Trackspacer. Does it do exactly this job though? I mean, it works perfectly for me, but I've never actually tried the method in this video to see if there's a difference.
In my Matrix Reloaded Merovingian voice - Well, well, well... it appears you do in fact have some skill. 🤗 I think you may have finally won me over and I'm going to look into your mixing academy after this video.
Despite some of the comments I thought your demonstration was great, thanks for taking the time to show us some of your methods..... I found this tutorial because I was looking specifically for vocal side chain techniques..
That was probably one of the best before-and-after A/Bs I've ever heard on a youtube tutorial. Can you explain why it's important to use a linear-phase EQ for this? My understanding was that linear-phase EQ is best used for parallel processing. Aren't you necessarily introducing the possibility for pre-ringing into the instrumental track?
Perhaps linear phase was chosen to avoid phase going back and forth when EQ engages. It probably would be fine on this scale, but to keep things simple for video, linear phase was chosen as that would be more suitable in different cases. You can try to exaggerate settings on material where changes to the sound are clear, and compare natural and linear phase to choose what you prefer better. Natural phase has audible changes too, so filter with certain settings (frequency, "shape"...) on particular material may sound better with linear phase
Thank you for this. I would make a gentle suggestion that if you say "bus the vocal out" that it would be helpful to explain how to do that so we can continue to follow the help you're providing with this. Thanks.
What you're asking is pretty novice, and the tips he's giving are far from that -- a quick google search will answer questions like that for you. Basically you create an auxiliary track as your vocal group and send/bus all your vocal tracks to it, and that "vocal bus" will send/out to the master -- just like a bus full of people gathering and being transported to a destination. So instead of your (vocal) tracks being sent directly to your master, they're being bussed together into a group (and can be processed together) and then sent to the master (or another bus -- like sending all your leads to a lead vocal bus and your backups to a stereo background vocal bus which are both sent to your final vocal bus, and then that being sent to your 2 buss/master along with the 2 track/instrument busses). It's pretty easy once you get an understanding of it, and it can open up a lot more creativity when mixing. Good luck!
@@xanderpills linear phase pre-ringing will smear more than the regular EQ. But since it's entirely dynamic and more of a spectral tool, you're not getting a consistent smearing in one place.
@@ShalowRecord you put the plugin on the instrumental you're cutting into. You send vocals to the sidechain. Tell it to use the sidechain, and adjust the parameters to where it's doing the job as intended etc.
I also do this with soothe2, much easier than this version. Anyway this technique is very important, especially if you only got a beat and acapella track.
I get it so it’s almost like taking all the obnoxious highs and lows out the vocal so the vocal can, in a way, lay on the beat instead of being on top of it . Just started in fl studio 3 days ago
The problem with most ”how to do ” videos is that its always with very simple productions, for example RAP or Housemusic. Try to do one with skilled music, pop music like for example Pet Shop Boys or other 80s music. I have for example in my projects like 30-80 tracks of chorus and many many layers with vocal tracks. And THAT IS A CHALLENGE. I cant just put on a sidechange, on which track in that case . But keep up the good work , i like it ♥️🇸🇪🌷🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪
Great video! I am really grateful for the info shared here. I have always had trouble getting my vocal to sit correctly. Combined with the sidechain compression of reverb/delay on your newest video it really is a massive upgrade with few tweaks. That's the power of a "secret". It's not difficult, It's not overly time consuming. It works! Thanks a lot, Streaky!
This is incredibly clever. And I just got the FabF Pro-Q 3 last week. I knew that it is a great EQ plug-in, and with the features of the ProQ, this is what i wanted to do. Thank you for the roadmap! Kudos.
Great trick, but very similar to something like Trackspacer, yes? I love putting it on my instrumental bus and have it triggered just slightly by the dry vocal.
Hi. Do you have another video in where you work in a different process. For example as you stated in the 1st 2 minutes of this clip, using a side chain. Thanks!
Btw I meant if you gave a video where you show how to do this when you have all instruments and vocals not just a backtrack and a vocal. Also, if you just have waves plugins you’re screwed no? Lolol Waves Q10 is the closest thing I’m thinking and still comes short of fabfilter Idk if fab is for fabulous, but it should be.
Thank you Streaky for these videos. When I'm feeling down and depressed I always check on your videos for some genuine smiles from the bullshitery you have constantly going on here. Thanks again and don't you dare open a fckin' proper book about sound engineering!We need you!
Streaky, you are a good man. now, I'm new at ProQ3. when arrived to the delete section, logic asked me if I wanted to delete the track. thankfully I did not. decided to totally copy the vocal track as a safe. idid the whole thing 4 times, learning. eventually I deleted...my vocal track 5 hrs of work, haha. but had the backup. then noticed that delete meant hitting the little x. now I got it!!! thank you Streaky! your consistent advice has made me a better engineer. ps just word of caution to the newbies...
I mix boom bap for vinyl releases if you find yourself needing a hand dude. Most recent thing was the Triple Darkness double vinyl LP, got a bunch of other mixes waiting to drop tho
Hey Sneaky, I have another content suggestion!: Since waves just released its subscription plan, you should make a video about the most essentia plug-ins you need, instead of needing a whole fleet of plug-ins you’ll never use.
Interesting! I tried it on something I had recently recorded and there's definitely an audible difference in the way the vocal track sits in the mix. I used to do this with waves' linear phase multi band compressor, but this approach [with the proq3] is much more surgical. Question: would you route your entire vocal buss (including harmonies, etc), or just the lead vocals? Also, the FX busses should remain directed to the stereo buss and should NOT be sidechained into the proq3 correct?
Just wanted to thank you and shout you out for this video. I took what you did, made a submix channel (instead of bouncing the instrumental) and this process worked like a dream. Thanks again!
@@joechapman8208 really? You know you can adjust the attack and release? With insanely fast attack and release I find there's no obvious and audible pumping
Q: How do professional mixing engineers make the vocals sit so perfectly with the backing track. A: They don't! For decades, there has been been a tendency to mix the vocals louder and louder (driven by unmusical excecutives). This has made the vocals become disconnected with the instruments. Just compare mixes from the 50's, 60's 70's and 80's, with "modern" mixes. The vocals were part of the track. Today, they are a separate entity from the instruments. Yes, it's correct to use EQ to make room for the vocal. But before you do anything, lower the vocal a with bout 3dB and you will find that the vocal "gels" much better with the instruments. (I have done tests with separating vocals, for several tracks, and lowering the vocals by aproximately 3dB "improves" the track a lot by making the vocal connect with the instruments.). This has been driven by corporate excecutives, that has no knowlege about music. There are lots of mixing engineers that intentionally misslabel the "normal" level mix as "vocal up", in order to trick the excecutives. I saw an interview with a mixing engineer (I don't recall the name), who said that he always sent three mixes to the labels named; vocal down, normal, vocal up. Nobody used the "vocal down" mix. A few used the "normal" mix. But the majority used the "vocal up" mix. The thing is that the "normal" and the "vocal up" mixes were identical! Just the fact that the mix was labeled "vocal up" convinced the executives that it was "better"! What can we learn about this? Before you do anything, make sure that the vocal sits at a LEVEL that makes it feel like part of the mix. Not something that is disconnected and soars far above the music. THEN you can use EQ (and compression) to improve the legibility of the vocal. That's the differece between songs and musically backed poetry recitals.
Closed my eyes, couldn’t here the difference. Listening through QC35s. I challenge you to close your eyes and signal to a second person when the effect is in/out
Isn’t this attenuating each band according to amplitude instead of frequency? Would there be a way for it to act more like a side-chained Soothe, or IZ Unmask / Trackspacer, where it ducks the track only at the fundamentals that peak out instead of flatly ducking all the masking frequencies by the same amount? Asking for a friend
It’s not bad without. And it’s debatable that it’s “better” with it. I for one don’t want strangely dynamically ducked pop song. The beat is critically important. I want the full range power of the instrumental-unmolested. If the vocals are static on top, fader automation/surgical cuts on the instrumental and or parallel processing is the better route. Lastly, in a hybrid pitch-catch setup this technique becomes wildly complex and not worth the trouble.
Hola! It also works very well when instead of choosing it to work over the stereo, we choose it to work only on the CENTER channel, which is where the vocals are usually placed in many mixes. Greetings!
Visual placebo is amazing I love it. The difference to me is unnoticeable if I'm not looking, I don't know when it's bypassed. Also willing to bet everything that literally nobody is doing this :)))) But hey it might actually be useful at some point, as with all your tips n tricks. :)
Top mixing engineers DO do this to some extent (although they might prefer other tools and plugins to reduce frequency masking) but it's only really for final polish on major label stuff where it's "important". The average listener can't tell a 1dB drop in volume on an entire track, let alone in very narrow frequency ranges. I think this is the sort of thing that separates Grammy winners from nominees, but it's mostly irrelevant for bedroom producers with 38 subscribers. (Albeit there's some fun to be had just from learning the tools and techniques of top producers, even if you don't create songs as good as theirs).
@@AutPen38 spot on, but also, people think these kinds of crazy techniques is what makes a song sound great. If the song is good, good vocals, good vibe, great hook and everything just really inspired, the rest doesnt really matter. As the saying goes, cant polish a turd. :) and it just so happens that great songs also receive top-end mixing and mastering but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be there without the extra polish. Just my view.
@@GabrielSuceaOfficial Yeah, I love watching production and mixing tutorials as much as the next person, and I can lose hours in my home studio doing little tweaks as I try to sprinkle magic dust on my tracks using the various tricks I've learned, but it's kind of pointless spending so much time working on the "final 1%" if the song is no good in the first place. It's fun to learn those technical processes though.
Streaky I know your a good teacher - But i've never heard your mixes or productions. Time to show us, so I can actually trust your guidance based off proof.
@@matttanner1062 And you write long answers back but refuse to tell me one single record he's produced... time for introspection honey. You claim he's a prominent mixer and producer - prove it. I don't have to google your claims.
Why bother with all this if the music we have today are dynamically compressed? When you compress the final result, it doesn't matter. Today audio engineers need to learn a lot from the old ones.
This is an interaction between the vocal and the music. Your comment makes no sense. It’s like saying ‘why carve dovetails in these wooden panels when later on I’m gonna paint everything’
I’ve had pro Q for years and I’ve freakin always wanted to know how to do this , the algorithm just decided that today it’s time for me to learn this thanks
0:05 first off, I don't have the same impression. They use the right compressor type, the right amount of compression and "more 2k than the rest" to punch their voices into your face. But taking a look at how many people are involved in "getting a mix" not even mastered I'm quite sure the last in line just uses track spacer to wash out all the "creative decisions" his predecessors made.
Also, good sir: If you are working on an "organic beat" like a full band instrumental behind the Vox, would you bounce the various backing instruments into a "beat" track so that all the drums, guitars, bass etc can be dealt with in a similar fashion to this example, and the ducking side chain effect can be more easily applied across the various instruments? thank you again!
The only problem I have is that the tips he gives are logic specific. He just says "click here, here and here, and you're good." That doesn't help if you're using ableton, reaper or other DAWS.
