I Suppose We Have to Talk About Netcode and Features Again 

He needed to play order sajam for the matchup

It's not like it's just games either, it's pretty much any fandom. Sports and anime communities are especially bad with this I've noticed.

Yeah you can't fully blame people for being defensive when there ARE people out there that just shit on everything because it's trendy to do at the time.

This Especially when it comes to voicing opinions on the Internet Like, there's no in-between, you either with, or against

Unfortunately this is one of the big downsides of the internet. In groups, opinions and feelings tend to get magnified out of proportion. The internet multiplies this by 100, and it seems to have given people some kinda PTSD or something. Middle ground and nuance is lost in something that often times looks like virtual group think. You have something that just metastasizes, like a cancer, into a cluster of vitriol.

I wrote an entire research paper on this phenomena and the history of it back to the Industrial Revolution. A huge part of it came down to how people who aren't able to do creative work will internalize external sources as part of their identity and then any criticism of it is criticism of them. It's only become worse in the last decade since I wrote the paper.

thats kind of disgusting, but thats the corporate machine you sign up for if you want to be a pro commentator i suppose. i know league casters can't refer to champs as "broken" or "overpowered", this shit is a lot more censored and restrictive than we can imagine

@@Jaynesslessly if you haven’t already seen it, see if you can find clips of commentators reacting to aphelios flamethrower pentakills. You can just tell they’re at a loss for what to say that isn’t just “that shit’s broken”

It is, but it's a standard package for years. In many games you aren't allowed to criticize any aspect of the game as a commentator. If you watch tournaments and competitions of bigger games, you see awkward pauses when some glitch happens or something blatantly bad balance-wise pops up during matches etc, because commentators get this brain fart for a couple of seconds where they know they can't describe what's going on anymore in an honest way, yet they need to keep commentating. It was very perceivable with Overwatch, for example, whenever there's a bug, you don't hear anything near "oh, the bug got them, unfortunate for the team A".

@@Puffufuf im sure thats true. ive seen interviews with doublelift where hes like "damn lucian is so useless and garbage in this meta" and the caster is like "ok lets not go there"

Wack as fuck indeed. Hope they can smooth that out- he's one of my favorite SF commentators.

I second this!

I mean at the time he seems pretty important but in the long run yeah he kind of never existed

Pain: peko

Obito/Kakashi also has Kamui that works kinda like absorption.

I know the feel. I've been messing around trying to learn G in SFV in training mode for like 4 days. I'll take him online someday... I promise!

Sounds familiar...

I literally have over 60hrs just sitting in training mode on ggxrd, skullgirls, and sfv 🥲

@@Astartes00 bruh i spent 100 hours in skullgirls training mode just trying to learn bnbs

This is true, and the truth hurts 😢

They absorbing your 60 bones. That tasty absorb net-code is working as expected

We do exist

absolutely no scene in Tulsa which is what i've been looking for since I've moved here 2 years ago sadge

My state has a google server and I still get delay matches like FUCK in VF. Virtua Fighter truly deserves better than that.

Nice

absorb-based netcode

It's because in general the japanese are pretty conservative when it comes to technology adaptation. They also historically have been more likely to rely on in-house tools over on-the-market solutions. Maybe due to the lack of translations, maybe because they still value arcades more, or maybe its just money pinching, but the adoption of clean, accurate rollback netcode is still in a transitional phase

Exactly. I played q1 and q2 with delay, quakeworld removed moving delay, but didn't remove shooting delay, q3 made more advances and somewhere about 20 years ago, we had full prediction netcode. Now, sure, by then, fighting games haven't really left the arcades yet and pc and online gaming was still on the rise. However, TWO DECADES (I had to capitalize this lol) later, we're still discussing this lol. Imagine having a game with insert coin mechanics on your machine at home. Or something like that. And this is just a part of a larger issue, which is extreme complacency seen with a subsection of players who mostly exclusively play fighting games. It's as if time stopped some 25 years ago and Capcom, Namco and the rest didn't grow into corporations and their games didn't grow into full AAA products and their profits didn't grow as well and there were no technological advancements in the meantime and video game industry standards. Harada is still based when he tells you off by saying Tekken is 3, mandatory player base-splitting standalone expansions are still a thing with some titles, menu structure, loading times, options, control options etc. are about the same as they were 15 years ago and so on and so forth. And that's not even a "fg boomer" thing, my first fighting game was International Karate and sf2ww was one of my most played games in my life. Still, that doesn't mean that I should be fine with buying a fully priced mid class car that doesn't have electric windows and central lock. I'm not from Mars lol

thank you, i was just about to comment something similar. people act like rollback is this new and bold thing and we need to be patient but japanese fighting games are literally 20+ years behind the industry standard. when carmack figured it out it didn't take years for other fps games to adapt, they just straight up copied him because the problem had been solved.

Don't give shooters too much credit, stuff like CoD and GoW still have mediocre online. See the same latency issues in CoD today that I saw when CoD 4 blew up.

@@LegendaryPlank No one is saying popular shooter devs aren't complacent as well, they have their set of issues and people should criticize that. However, fg's issues are about 15 years behind those in almost every aspect expect gameplay.

She smawt, she loyole; you appreciate that. I hope you read this in dj Khaled's voice.

While I agree rollback is a necessary change and needs to become standard, I never understood the need for offline fighting players strive for. I get that it's a different game because frames are really important but then again, does it impact so badly the "fun" that can be had in a game? I personally am an advocate for rollback, I wont play games that have notoriously bad netcode and I play games that have rollback BUT it doesnt mean I do not understand where companies come from when they decide not to include it. I think delay netcode if improved could be a good bridge for companies to traverse before getting to rollback or small companies to fall on if they just dont have the resources to add it. I still dont think netcode should be discouraged as much as it is in the FGC, it's sad because lag is such a normal occurence with the same effects in any competitive game. Diminishing delay is key but games need to be supported if they attempt improvement or cannot afford rollback yet.

@@chillaxboi2109 Dude you didn't see people playing MOBA that didn't have server near them. The attack on laggy connection was fierce. And remember what happened to FPS without dedicated server? Good thing twitter wasn't a thing 15 years ago so you people didn't get to see it as much as currently.

@@DuoMaxwellDS I play League of Legends and have played on Wi-Fi most of my life before getting an ethernet cable. Still don't find it as important. Plus, if you go to other regions apart from the western ones, you'll still find lag

@@chillaxboi2109 "cannot afford rollback" ggpo is zero dollars and is in Japanese now. The ones that have been holding out and holding everyone back, the Japanese, have no excuse not to learn it and add it instead of reinventing the wheel everytime and putting out a worse solution in the process.

Demanding a fully developed and playable game? What are you, a commie?

@@alejotomasortega547 Bu-buh....IT's freeeee, that means it's completely safe from criticism

​@@alejotomasortega547 Neither of those words describe any game in this discussion is the thing.

@@mitzi3262 Well yea it kind of should be, anything free should be considered a bonus and should be free from criticism cuz u could of easily got nothing.

@@maxrusty3596 Even if you didn’t spend money on a game, you still spent time on it. You might not have paid a cent, but the time wasted could’ve been used elsewhere. Sure I would be more tolerant of issues if I don’t have to pay, but that doesn’t stop a problem from being a problem.

I didn't know about plus r (my only experience before that was about one hour of xrd some years back at a friend's house when he showed it to me) or even care about guilty gear as a whole until accent got rollback and I finally gave the series a try. And I am glad I did. Now, I want to give kof2002 a try, whereas before, I had no interest in trying kof really because of not wanting to buy games with bad online anymore.

Almost the same. I did play XX#R a long time ago (10+ years) and I did like the core gameplay, but ultimately I did not like the lagy experience in like every 2nd or 3rd person I play. And then I forgot about this series and did not keep up with the news. Then I saw +R on Sajam channel with news about good netcode and I was like "Oh, I remember this series, it was pretty good, so I might try it out now that it has good online play".

I know Accent Core because i played it back then on my PSP. I immediately love the characters' looks and the soundtrack.

🥜

deez what sir?

Go ahead and try.

@@deez8318 I shall absorb you very good.

Ligma netcode

Because that means admitting that things are bad in the first place.

Shit! they made the graphics better. Why can't they make the netcode better?

No, they don't. If they did, they wouldn't be arguing againdy improvement in the first place.

theres genuinely people who think rollback ruins games. theres honest to god folks who think 4g cell signal is fine for fighting games too.

@@WaluTime I mean if the rollback is poorly implemented, then yeah, it can still be bad. SFV technically has rollback, they just didn't give themselves any delay frames to work with, and the game doesn't handle desyncs well. Which is the equivalent of that extension cord that is Technically long enough to get it to where you need to go, but it's hanging 2 feet off the ground in a walkway and is running diagonally up the wall. It'll technically work, but if the smallest thing goes wrong it can turn to a catastrophe. But in an ideal world, all fighting games would release with properly implemented rollback.

When the pandemic thing happened and locals were dead I just stopped playing a lot of the things I used to play weekly at Playbook... Tekken, Smash, Samsho, even MK11. I dunno if playbook would even be around right now. Can I ger a survey, whatchu think is the best telco out here for fighting games? We at the local Splatoon community just loves dunking on PLDT as a meme, I just want to be sure we've got the right villain here.

back in my day we yabba dabba doo'd in our cars and we LIKED it. spoiled kids with their not square wheels.

vidboy wheels, pfft. back in my day our cars had legs. We called them “horses.”

Because some people feel like they have nothing else going for them in their lives except this one thing they got WAY into and wrapped their identity around this. It's not true, though, but that's what they feel. It's sad, and a pitiable state of affairs.

Most people don't have enough self esteem to view themselves as valuable individuals. Instead of reflecting on themselves, they blamed the beasts.

Making a hobby your personality is 101 for a majority of the "Gamer TM" crowd

So kind of like furries.

@@Plasmacat1 If only it stopped there. It permeates most facets of entertainment now where people struggle to dissasociate themselves from their thing.

Kind of depends, parts of the west coast actually have huge scenes, namely California

I think you are lastcody

@@xxmujinscxx3516 lastcody was in our hearts all along

@@xxmujinscxx3516 this is a great compliment, but I am unfortunately not lastcody 😅

@@Arlo5.13 are you dizzy?

@@xxmujinscxx3516 Nah, the real Lastcody were the friends we made along the way.

Are u gonna main axl?

@@dylanbrown3057 That's so presumptuous, just because I'm british doesn't mean I want to main the london pacifist time himbo with the borderline offensive accent. On an unrelated note, yes.

@@LainPuzzlewell Oh man, I tried to get into tekken and fucking hell. It's one of the best-feeling fighting games I've played... in training mode.

Insecurity

But they don’t just say they don’t play, they go outta their way to shit on your games because of it. It’s like you’re not allowed to enjoy those games because of bad netcode.

@@MaikSpike They shit on the product and its lack of basic features, not the core game. I have yet to see someone shitting on VF's gameplay, for example. If anything, people who love those games should be more pissed, not less.

@@doolioart3314 That's bs tho, there's been an active campaign by western social media to kill Granblue (and to a lesser extent DBFZ), you literally can't say anything positive about it on reddit without getting mass downvoted and buried on "muh netcode" shitposts because it hurts the rollbackia cultist dogma that the two best selling non-NRS games don't have rollback and Strive is not likely to touch their sales records.

@@doolioart3314 They don't need to shit on the gameplay if what they do is shit on the ENTIRE game because of no rollback. See what Bum said about this whole ordeal.

Making it Ps4 exclusive was the dumbest idea, especially when the ps5 in already on sale.

@@manzanito3652 but it’s not a PS4 exclusive. It’s a PS exclusive. It’s still playable and can be matched on the PS5. Also, this might just be a deal Sony had with RGG (the developers of this remaster and the Yakuza series) to continue their relationship of exclusives, which is the case for a LOT of their releases. Plus, as a PS+ free game, you guarantee a larger initial audience than what you would’ve otherwise gotten on a set platform. I’m not defending this practice, but from a business standpoint, it makes some sense.

@@nikhilbhavani981 not really when you consider that most console players have a "herd mentality". its exactly as the guy says. Once the console players get tired of the game in a month and its lost 90% of its audience, we'll be right back where we started. At least fighting games on PC tend to last longer or have a more active community like with Fightcade and such.

@@lordxmugen It also helps you don't have to pay extra for the online on pc.

That's already the case. It's been standard in the west for a decade and people are complaining about people playing online instead driving 10000 miles to the nearest local and playing there.

Those people are jusst afraid to scape their sweaty comfort zone of playing the same 20 people each week and stomp on them and dont confront people around the globe that might smoke em or have unusual playstyles that you dont usually see offline

Delay-based stockholm syndrome

Capitalism

Brands have been marketing the idea of "People with X personality choose this product" and now it's become so normal that tons of people live towards that idea. Especially people with large social media followings are afraid to look stupid enjoying a flawed product, because they think they might lose fans otherwise.

The issue is there are so many rollback games that get zero play. Where the hell is the roll back army for them. All games should have them but people act like its a deal breaker, because even when its in a game it doesnt mean the game will be played.

@@alvinmercado6305 what does that have to do with the discussion at hand? a game that has rollback is not guaranteed success. true, and? how is that relevant to what DoolioArt said?

@@alvinmercado6305 That's the nature of games, some get popular and some don't. As Sajam says in this video, having rollback doesn't make a game automatically interesting or fun to play (and he doesn't just stick with games on the basis of them having rollback). But it does mean that a massive barrier to entry (of having to worry about the basic play experience) is removed just by having rollback. Regardless, as you say all fighting games should have rollback as a basic QoL feature. Which yes, makes it a deal breaker if a game doesn't include it, because having functional online play for everybody has become a core part of the fighting game experience. Not sure I understand how someone could simultaneously hold the view that "all games should have it" and "it's not that big a deal".

@@JoelBurger many people wouldn’t call dbfz functional nor tekken nor mortal Kombat yet they are played and sold well..

@@alvinmercado6305 What point are you even trying to make here? You seem to just be making a bunch of tangents.

People just gotta people man. No two cents about it.

TK x VF, Capcom x Snk, Anime x non Anime, 2d fg's x 3d fg's, traditional fg's x SSB, etc... That's totally normal in the community. Not nice but normal. It's only weird if the "hate" is not motivated by any of those standard rivalries.

This EXACTLY. I've seen tons of hate and toxicity from TEKKEN players specifically, not really anyone else. Any video dealing with VF always has at least a few Tekken fanboys in the comments trying to shit on the game, and this stuff has been going on for YEARS at this point, way before this new version of VF5 even came out. It's weird man. It's like they feel threatened by it or something. Maybe i'm biased as a VF fan, but i've honestly never ever see any VF players doing that to Tekken. I even saw a video of a Tekken player calling out other members of their community about it.

And they also got shat on by other scenes for the exact problem of not being alive for years on end. Decades of VF chair memes can Jokerfy a senior citizen.

And this is what our economy does to people. Spend, spend, spend, entertain yourself so revenue can flow. Meanwhile so many become addicted to what it is they are buying to an unhealthy degree.

This

Being mean doesn't help, but I doubt people are being mean as a strategy, they're just pissed. And what we're dealing with in this genre is completely mind boggling regarding how much it drags behind the industry standards (even if the industry is rotten and its standards are usually pretty low anyways). In other words, would it be ok to be mean if a game releases without rollback in 2040? I get what you're saying, but I can't be overly critical towards people who are snapping, the genre is lagging behind even up to 20 years with some features. That's a bit too much.

Pat is just the loudest complainer in general, it doesn't mean much

Same here. I am totally befuddled why people would expect this game to have roll back. It's an older games that was never built with roll back in mind. Why get mad about something that wasn't there in the first place and anyone with any common sense would know it would take tons of labor and sunk cost to produce a product that probably wouldn't sell a statistically more number of units of roll back was there.

There is that factor too

Better not to touch that mess lmao

That is server tick I believe.

They’re probably snippets of different streams

Cool for u guy but over here in New Zealand we have a very small player base on fighting games specially old fighting games. Soo me playing against people over in Japan and Korea with rollback games are amazing I can actually find people around my lvl.