Iconic Corpse: Elena de Hoyos & Carl Tanzler 

Agreed.

I have no idea what I would do if U would hear about such a cardboard tube inserted 'there' in my late Mama's corpse. We know how Elena's sister tried to get justice for her poor sister. It was denied. And then they laid her on display for the masses. That was done to her as if it was not enough what Tänzler had done to her.

Im the 1100th like nice

No it isn't

@Mazxj Stripes decay is a normal process. Defiling a body in this way is sick and unnatural and wrong.

Lon Osaurus who says he was romantic? I think everyone can agree he's fucking crazy

Lon Osaurus a better love story than twilight....*throws up*

uʍop ǝpısdn Caitlin talks about it in the video, people back then celebrated him

I don’t see anyone here who thinks he was a romantic lol

Lon Osaurus ikr

She was her sister's heroine beyond the grave and got that creeper Carl Tanzler off of her back.

I actually felt that this was his only real crime. Because, surely, Elena was long gone at this point. Unless, your body tethers your soul until it's completely decomposed… in which case… poor mummies!

If he was that desperate he could've easily got a hold of a Sears or Wards Catalouge;turned to the women's underwear section;dropped his drawers and "took matters in hand!!!

Hes preserving her like Goldie hawn & Merl streep in death becomes her

😂😂😂😂

Mr. Tanzler clearly was suffering from some very severe psychological delusions.

in every way. funny on the surface level, but upsetting when you actually think about it

Touché!!!!!

Who is this Florida man? If I may ask...

Ehhh... I don't know about that... At least it's more interesting

Biscuit Gidoni more interesting yet worser and grosser

It’s not really a love story...it was one sided gross pining that the woman never wanted any part of 😭

@@Narangedi Like most marriages! Ha! Ha! Ha!

Here is a human 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

"DECLARED" sane. It's a pretty good guess he had a pretty serious neuro-psychological condition, which may have helped his public image. Pardon Caitlin, but it's not always "evil man exploits poor woman". Mrs Hoyos' fate is tragic, especially if Tanzler accelerated her demise (manslaughter), but somebody who seriously thinks he can revive the dead by "cosmic radiation" AS A MEDIC is, himself, in dire need of psychiatric help. If Tanzler was no MD/medic, how could he have worked as radiologist? In Germany, radiologists are indeed specialised medics ("Facharzt" (sg) / "Fachärzte" (pl)).

Yes, in Florida, yes

@mejor no, a court's declaration of sanity is generally a declaration of legal sanity; the person knows the difference between right and wrong and can appreciate the consequences of their actions. You can pretty loopy, but legally sane. This guy was obviously a few fries short of a Happy Meal, but the behavior described fits with a legally sane person.

@@linabasilisk1955 Lol I'm stealing that happy meal phrase. I didn't know that was a saying. I see, that makes sense. I think we have a bit of a different definition where I live. Thanks!

He has to be declared sane to stand trial. Otherwise, they couldn't charge him.

She was also married.

@Elaine M Exactly!!

Yes, like pedophilia, necrophilia is a disgusting act inflicted on a defenselessness individual by a sick and twisted perp who belongs locked up for life!

Aniabas What ‘public’? He was literally prosecuted and imprisoned.

He was barely punished, in fact! Seems like he committed a significant crime - desecration of a corpse, big time!

@@MJW238 He wasn't imprisoned; they didn't convict him as the statute of limitations for grave robbing had ended. Furthermore, Caitlin explicitly states in the video that the public largely sympathized with him. If you think she's wrong, you should be calling _her_ out on it.

Voice of Adam I am calling her out on it. She says the public sympathised with him, but then provides no evidence for that claim.

Aniabas The public sympathises with gay marriage too.

Also, I choose the title of Princess Francisco von Gaga.

If it's Count Chocula, she might enjoy it.... err, him.

Holly Hobgoblin This is messed up that our society even in death doesn't allow women to have body autonomy. A basic human right afforded to men 😢😢

And don't forget that tuberculosis was considered to beautify women who had it because they became pale and waifish - see Edgar Allen Poe who just loved dying tubercular women.

Holly Hobgoblin sorry as much as we try to mold a misogynist narrative, this is a story about a man with severe mental Illness.

Jess Hammond Thank you for pointing this out.

Can't say I've ever encountered that. Like, ever. At least not in a setting where it wasn't treated as creepy.

"Zat just means I'm not trying hard enough."

🤣😭💔

Mental illness everyone, it does things!

@@Dumb_Killjoy We know! nearly everyone on this comment section is practically verifiably insane! the mental illness is more than palpable!

FUCKEN YIKES

i also have seen that kind of disgusting retelling of this story and it makes me angry when i see it.

Elena was in fact in love with her estranged husband. Not a creepy old man with a disturbing fetish.

is there a book???

Caitlin is the FIRST person I'm aware of who has ever mentioned that Elena did not return Tanzler's sentiment.

😂

Preach!

Get it in writing, also. Because people can forget, or be certain that you changed your mind, or outright lie.

My death plan is a big area of anxiety for me since I don't have family or close friends. Plus I live in Thailand. At least I won't be embalmed here but I wish I could plan things out legally to make sure things are done a certain way when I die.

Contact an attorney who specializes in such matters for assistance. They should be able to set you up.

That made me chuckle! 😂👍But then again, I'm one of those annoying people who say "That's what *she* said" at every opportunity. 🤭

OMGosh.....does the woman that does these creepy videos look like Steven Tylers daughter?

@@susanmcarthur2204 Steven Tyler creeps me out too though. Look up Julia Holcomb.

You beat me on that comment !! haha

She was probably Catholic, so they believe the soul leaves the body at death. Maybe the soul is in purgatory, working its way through, or as protestants believe, the soul is with GOD. The bodies are lifeless shells, until the resurrection. Now if they believed in santaria or voodoo or something else, I cant say.

J. Garnet Why put emphasis on the lack of consent, or even that she was female, any more here than on all the others stories of crazy people engaged in grave robbing? That crematorium guy had over 300 bodies lying about his yard - around half of them would have been female, and they also didn’t consent?

MJW238 It's because of public reaction. People wouldn't call someone with 300 corpses "romantic" and sympathise with them, yet that has happened here. A woman who was not romantically involved with this man had her corpse stolen and desecrated, and people decided it was sad for HIM. It's worryingly telling of what we let people get away with under the guise of "romance".

Rotten Figs Where is the public reaction? No evidence is provided of most people thinking this romantic. All we know is he was arrested and prosecuted - hardly an indication of public support.

@@MJW238 The Wiki page mentions it, take that as you will, but it has a source. However, I will contend that the repeated articles writing about this and characterizing this dude as having an obsessive "love" and not just being some fucking gross necrophiliac rapist is in fact a pretty positive reinterpretation in the guy's favor.

@@MJW238 He wasn’t punished and the media made this shit all ‘aww that poor man’ despite him having a wife and kids, stealing someone’s corpse and desecrating it.

05:10 "I'll keep my eye on you..."

Thankfully they are a reenactment, not actual footage

@wainwright The same footage is used in another video on the subject. But in that video it is clearly labeled as a reenactment.

No they are actually REAL. I SAW this on an episode of HBOs autopsy. You can just Google it as well.

@@candicec854 "Real" can have two different meanings here. Yes, the footage is of actual people doing an actual autopsy. What this video casually implies with its editing is that the footage is of the actual victim and perpetrator, as opposed to a completely unrelated medical video. So in that sense, no it is not "real", as it is not depicting the criminal events being described in the voice over. Hope that clarifies what I meant.

Yeah...I also have this question as well.

@@Lilas.Duveteux Tuberculosis was considered fatal at that time. the first survivor thanks to a cure was in 1949

There were also reports in the 80s that they found a note supposedly written by Tanzler that he murdered her with a poisoned tonic. No proof if it's true though, but raises a lot of questions

Antibiotics were not widely used until WWII; so no cure for tuberculosis yet. Also did people even even know or think to make there wishes known for their death during this time. I mean who is going to think that a crazy old guy is going to take your daughter's/sister's corpse and have his way with it????

If you got diagnosed with tuberculosis back then, it was basically a death sentence.

Kaylie Nunn What did she say about Elena?

She hoped he could heal her, he tried and failed and couldn't accept it. It's a sad story that went crazy..

@@inconnu4961 Yeah, and then they wonder why they only attract a--holes in their lives...

@@inconnu4961 ...You do know that, irregardless of gender, it would upset anybody? Because (and I can't believe it needs to be said), necrophilia is gross, no matter who is the abuser and who is the victim.

Tanzler: "What's the fine for Necrophilia in the US? Just asking..." Hero of Kvatch: "Is it your first offense?" Tanzler: "Let's assume... No."

Before then it was creepy, he was all lovey-dovey, despite her rejecting his advances.

@@alexthebudgie9071 She was just playing hard to get! LOL

At least he wasn't sexually involved with them?

@@laceneil4570 i think he was...

Moskvin's story is as sad as it is disturbing. In that case, he was a very mentally ill man who truly believed that burying children was cruel because their spirit remained in the body. He didn't do anything sexual with them, rather he read them stories, watched cartoons with them and had conversations with them. Moskvin was a deeply disturbed man who, in his own damaged mind, believed he was helping those dead children by digging them up and making them "comfortable". Still very messed up but not as much as this guy that "married" a corpse.

Yike

Wut

Papi Mae Yes! I seriously clicked away from another video to be here on time! 😂

Same, I have to see Caitlin's videos first! XD

always

ditto!

Yep in San Antonio, right? I still can't believe they haven't solved this one...

Yes in San Antonio I know how sad 😢😭

@@chanimarie6692 WAIT WHAT??

That's terrible.

A dude actually tried to entice you with those 'sweet nothings'? Did you recommend the chap to visit a psychologist for a little eval? C'mon boys, you can do better than this! No woman is worth necrophilia!

andrineslife tb still exists too... It's just not a death sentence anymore.

TB Definitely exists, hospital workers see this every day. there are multiple patients with TB at a hospital at one given time. I think the average is somewhere around 2 patients to every 100 patient in a hospital have TB. So its not really rare.

It still exists, difference is we have the medicine to fully treat it, my sister had tb in the early 2000s but got treated

andrineslife To everybody assuming this person meant it disappeared: “tuberculosis isn’t that common any more”. Read properly...

Unfortunately, they do (women can be creepy, too)

The photos are from the autopsy/police investigation. Also, ditto on the wanting to sleep tonight thing because JESUS that was morbid.

I WAS NOT PREPARED FOR THOSE PHOTOS.

Like, seriously, that picture of the autopsy with the face with that white paint and horrible fake eyebrows bothers me more than pictures of normal decomposing bodies......

It's like a real life incarnation of what the creature from the Frankenstein novel might have looked like crossed with something out of a Dario Argento movie... Pure horror. But this is real.

Ms. Hoyo's waxy face has been my nightmare fuel since I was a fucking kid. DAMN YOU TANZLER!

wait until you find out that worms & maggots eat your flesh! i hope you dont become one of those sickos that donate your body to science! who knows what violations your body will experience at the hands of strangers, especially men!

Was the pun intended? "Skyrocket". Because that is what he wanted to to with her, go into space with her so the radiation in space would revive her.

Bump this #askamortitician please do

Probably did it late at night is my guess.

Florida was mostly woods/vegitation at this time. It was the late 30s / early 40s so you could get away with a lot back then

Just Florida.

just another day in florida, don’t think people cared

He was simply the Florida Man of his time.

Hah! You assume this creepo had friends.

@@ImNotaRussianBot A woman actually agreed to marry him & have a child with him! LOL SO . . . either he was crazy and she married him, or he was sane and his wife drove him crazy! Either way, things aint looking too good for his wife! PLUS, she took him back, reconciled with him AFTER the fact! WOMEN are cray-cray man!

It's like the episode on Twilight Zone -Night Call ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-C1ltL2qo6Tg.html

The elves inside his head. I work at a mental hospital. I've seen patients at the public phones, holding the receivers to their ears, and having conversations with themselves.

We used to see a guy at the bus stop that used to stand there with his hand up by his ear like he was talking into a phone. ( Before cell phones ). Then finally someone gave him a phone receiver to talk into, and he'd stand there talking into that.

Ashly Taylor yeah, WHO WAS PHONE?

Ashly Taylor GASP

😂😂

Winning comment 👏😂😂

😂😂😂😂😂😂

Fellow Mainer here, can confirm. Story is warmer than the outside lol.

Come to Phoenix, we are in the 80's and sunny.

😳

I saw a documentary about this, creepy!!!

Thank you!

I just googled that…what the hell???? What is wrong with some people?????

why would you comment this and above all why did i fucking google it

I hope you're not referring this to the present day. This was in the era where there was no cure for tuberculosis i.e a LOT of years have passed and a LOT of things have changed.

@@madamada7458 Not enough things have changed. There are still places in the world where women have no autonomy in life, nevermind after they’re dead. And even in the places that are thought to be progressive, we’re still constantly dealing with issues of consent and bodily autonomy. If you need a specific example, it is a common and legal practice for doctors to deny married women tubal ligation unless their husband consents or deny single women on the basis that they might change their mind in a future relationship.

He was in fact insane

Him being declared sane by the courts only means that he knew what he was doing was wrong and could therefore be charged with a crime

What does his age matter? Are you saying if he had been younger it would have been O.K.?

@@MJW238 Literally noone said that. You do know the man in question here IS a 50 something yo old dirty bag, ye?

Nomi. It’s clearly playing on the ageist, and sexist, “dirty old man” stereotype - and I pointed out the ridiculous conclusion of such thinking. What if in the crematorium case someone said, “how horrible it would be having my body abused by a black man”? Why didn’t the video or commenter once mention his race - he literally was a black man?

MJW238 .......

@@MJW238 man your the only one making this about age stop making excuses for these disgusting actions

Don't forget the Lore podcast episode 88, Crossing the Line.

Do you remember which video it is?

@@elliottlupin dead body hijinks part 2

You say that as if Sam actually sympathised with him

I used to follow this page called the Thanatos Archive, full of Victorian postmortem photos. I think it's still online.

Bish Tomane Yes! Juana la Loca. She was the daughter of Ferdinand and Isabella-known for financing Christopher Columbus... Her sister Catherine was Henry VIII’s first wife. Small world. 😀

And when they get rejected it's because the women are shallow or don't want a real man

@@lazyhomebody1356 lmao what real man a 50 something dude can be

9 years of decomposition

@@p_eabean well, hair is already dead so that's actually true

I wanna know too

@@p_eabean I think she was referring to the owner of the channel.....

Look at the photo of the "sympathetic public". A bunch of white dudes supporting a white dude.

It's always been this way...

Precisely what I was thinking, Elena. Except for the sisters part!

GALMA 0 you don’t have to have a crappy ex boyfriend to know that men will come out in droves to defend a pervert

Y'all can go fuck yourself.

nobody thinks that except people like him

An open window = an open widow. There is a pun to be had here.

oooh i just started the audiobook last weekend and about to finish the last few chapters. In love with it and so chuffed she read it to us herself

We don't know the exact nature of his paraphilia. He could have been scared off by a healthy woman capable of making her own decisions. Or he might have expected her to be grateful to him and to show it by being obedient and compliant (a definition of grateful that seems all too common) -- which could have been the start of a life of verbal and psychological abuse. All too often, we think it 'sweet' or 'romantic' when someone lets their obsession with another define their life. "Oh, I wish I had a lover whose every thought was about me," says the young person trying to find The One and learning that life doesn't work that way. We never take that idea to its dark conclusion, no matter how many times we read about stalkers murdering the objects of their warped affections. The people who pitied Tanzler saw an old man in love, not a creepy old dude whose wife was his beard, and probably imagined a doomed romance rather than a one-sided obsession.

Feminism Is Cancer

When I first heard this story it was on the HBO show Autopsy. Few things scare me nowadays, but I had to turn the lights on (it was late at night) haha. It seriously freaked me out! It still does but I haven't found any story that's comparable to this....yet.

God, I didn't even think of that! I was focused on how tragic it was that she died so very young and then suffered that kind of indignity in death. I didn't even think about the fact that if she had recovered she'd probably have had to still deal with him as a stalker! Ugh.

lol That podcast made me laugh so hard my husband thought I was crazy. They Definitely make it less creepy and more hilarious, well maybe not less creepy but very funny.

"This just in: Florida man robs grave and lives with corpse for 7 years."

There is this twitter account or something called "Florida man" and it's just a bunch of crazy news articles from Florida lmfao

And he’s German! Crazy on crazy!

Something in the water I tell you...

boscorner It is the penis of the US, and the Keys are the jizz.

monroe never said anything to hefner, since they never met

Same! My friends also don't get it. My mom neither. But I'll still be death positive ;)

Madeleine Sperling Yes! Only we need to get it. #ProudDeathling

hey how are you in honduras ?? i went a month ago and there where those riots :( are you ok now and did it turn out well ??

Maya Rolke The president stayed even though no one wants him there... The riots died down amd everything turned almost back to normal, despite the people that died or got hurt, or the businesses that were ruined... I'm just hoping that some years down the line we don't turn into Venezuela 2.0 :( My country is so beautiful and filled with amazing people, but so hurt by a corrupted goverment, poverty and crime...

If I get anymore feminist stuff I'm out.

Sad. Wish they hadn't blown it up, though. It was so lovely. Could have been reused

Isobel Higgs yep. I heard this story too and couldn't sleep for days. He was really sick.

godness I remember seeing a picture of her on a web page about it and not being able to get that smiling, painted face out of my head knowing what was underneath.

I think it would be within your death plans and ultimately legal action taken by your loved ones.

Here's a really bizarre edge case though: (and I'm not saying this has ever happened or would ever happen, and DEFINITELY not that it applies to the 'Tanzler x Hoyos' fiasco,) if, for the sake of argument, a person has the incredibly bizarre fetish that they dream of someone having sex with their own corpse after they die, and they say so in their death instrument... What should be done?

Alexander R. Jaruk i think it wouldnt be carried out. Just because its on the paper work doesnt mean it can be done. For example someone may put that they want to be mummified in fruit rollups and fed to ants but if that cant be easily done the people caring for the body will just try to like bury or cremate it. I think you have to put a few different options on paperwork or work those out with loved ones before death. I could be wrong, please correct me if i am.

Death By Reindeer fair enough. I asked the question because I didn't know the answer. The subtext of my question though was about the legality issue brought up above: clearly, a corpse cannot consent, but a corpse isn't a person anymore: so, if it was the express wish of the person whose body the corpse was that this is done, should it still be illegal? (Not saying it will actually happen, I mean, for starters, who could you get to be their 'partner'???)

Alexander R. Jaruk I love your question, it's a great one actually.

Dave H All Hail!

That's the idea@

"& now a word from us kids!"

Friendly librarian recommendation here! I’d recommend checking out Caitlin’s first book: Smoke Gets In Your Eyes. 🙂

She narrates her own audiobook, smoke gets in your eyes. It’s full of the dry wit and empathy that makes this channel, and Caitlin herself, so enjoyable

Read her book!

It's all in her book which was very good.

You've read that right !! :D

Ha haha

omfg your pic freaked me out only to see that its a dog oof

The “disgust” expression, right? Me, too! Gives me the major creeps.

I was doing this face as I scrolled past your comment . Lol . 2 years later still relevant 😂

Elizabeth Shaw there was quite a broad range of mental illness in his family background, which included schizophrenia

Ash Bell yes I know as it was stated here. I have also studied him quite a bit as I wonder why the human mind can do what it does. I'm a student of the mind and sociology. It was meant to be light-hearted as a joke is. He didn't look too well in that picture physically or mentally. Have a great night!

Elizabeth Shaw I used to lecture in sociology before I changed to criminology. best of luck with, and enjoy your studies elizabeth x

Ash Bell thank you so very much! I have a couple of postgraduate degrees but like you have decided to change my career path. Best of luck to you as well! :-)

@Redheaded Stranger "tin roof rusted" means knocked up

Eeeeee nope