_"What's important is not standing by and allowing someone to suffer or die because you do nothing! If you don't get that, then you don't get the first thing about being Spider-Man!"_
90s yes, but 616 was likely not invited because he raveled his universe by making deals with the devil. Not to mention he started the notion of Peter's life always being miserable.
@@fenrirsrage4609 that or do what Hobbie did or even go as far as proving him wrong to the whole society. That’s what you expect from Otto specifically.
I think 616 Spider-Man would be pissed and ready to attack Miguel once he told him about the Canon Events. He had been suffering ever since one more day, him losing his wife and kid thanks to the Devil, MJ left Peter for Paul, got nerfed so badly he had to beg, Gwen died and came back to judge him, everyone he knows started HATING HIM FOR NO GODDAMN REASON! That man has every right to be pissed.
90s spiderman is the best spiderman. He shows empathy, and logic. Both of which 2099 has the least of. 90s spiderman was on point. Miles universe was not in danger. 2099 switched places with his alternate self something miles never did.
@@antyepHe already admitted to that though? He even says him messing with that world's canon is what caused it to vanish, that's why he's so adamant on no one else doing what he did. There's a good chance he's wrong about all this but after seeing what happened, he just doesn't want to take another chance. I don't know where all these "he's actually plotting something evil" ideas came from...
@@antyep Why would he need to say any of that? Miguel says what happened, that watched his other self with his family and only stepped in once he died. Now could he have gone into more detail? Sure, but why would he? He was giving Miles an explanation for the Spider-verse and canon events, not an hour long life story. He said only what he thought was essential. Miguel causing his alternate self to die? That's an assumption that makes him out to be some irreedemable killer, it's highly unlikely given the information we have.
@@megablueflash1816 if this assumption is true and that would make him seem like a irredeemable killer…why would he WANT to mention that detail? Now, this won’t reflect the original Miguel from the comics who is almost worthy to wield Mjölnir. Do you think the Miquel of this movie is worthy?
@@proxywolf2006you are right which is why in the spider-girl comics. Peter gets hurt and it’s her cannon event. She takes the mantle from her dad and that universe only has one “spider-man”
The funny thing is, it's literally not Miles' fault. It's Spot's for opening up the wormhole in the first place. He's taking it out on the wrong person and in the worst way.
@@NicoBlack69 Well Miles did save the world but he didn't turn off the machine correctly and if he did turned it off correctly Spot wouldn't been created so in turn Miles still saved the Multiverse from Kingpin but created a Villain even worse
That's why I think the Spectacular Spider-man we see in Across the Spider-Verse is a variant because the real Spectacular would never agree with Miguel.
@@MegaHeaf thats probably a version who JUST lost Gwen and/or George, so he's easily manipulated. There was this hypothetical season 3 I seen where he faced the Spot, allowing him to save George, but the new timeline was unstable, forcing him to go back and undo the changes. Maybe that's why he sides with Miguel. I know, not official, but still...
This is actually so damn true and should've been used hopefully they'll do something similar in beyond the Spider-Verse. Spider-Man is always supposed to do the right thing never stand by and just let bad things no matter what.
THE 2 SPIDERMEN WHO INSTANTLY CAME TO MY HEAD WHEN I HEARD THE STUPID ARGUMENT/LOGIC MIGUEL HAD Thank you so much for doing this, my biggest issue with that sequel was how nobody, be it Peter or others didn't think of anything to refute him, I just couldn't believe it.
Most of them either know what's wrong and are ready to switch teams once everything goes south like Hobbie, or Miguel most likely plays on their vulnerable cords like he did with Gwen
@@wukongisas9564 I honestly doubt he's "playing on their cords" - it's made quite clear in ATSV, that Miguel and the Spider-Society doesn't actually know how this works - they are basing all their knowledge on an isolated case, that Miguel caused and has nothing but theories to back up. They probably just think it makes sense cosnidering the knowledge they have so far.
It sucks honestly, considering with the inclusion of Insomniac Peter, would imply the rest of the Video Game Peters in some capacity exist, Including the Shattered Dimension/Edge of Time cast, and with that they've already made a similar idea in EOT With Peter getting on Miguel's ass for not wanting to save MJ because "There'd be no Time" and all that extra stuff.
@@JetSetWave thank you so much for bringing up this to the table, as soon as they showed PS4 Peter I paused it and just had that mental breakdown over edge of time spiderman, they didn't put his version in this movie precisely because of this, maybe he will be on Miles team in the sequel
My head canon is that 90s Spidey WAS part of the spider society, but got kicked out for speaking his mind. That’s why there’s no references to him when almost everything else is referenced even the most unknown stuff. We know Miguel isn’t above excluding people (MCU Peter for example), and I believe that’s why Andrew and Tobey aren’t part of it either, because he knows they’d never go along with Jeff dying
Technically I don't think it just a case of that unlimited is technically the same person of 90s and the 90s song of it was playing so he technically canonically canon to the 90s
Well technically he could be the same or an alternative variant of the 90s as the theme song form the 90 s was playing in that show in the first episode
I actually believe we see the spider bite from Spider-Man the Animated Series but it's only showing his hand. I do think 90s Spider-Man was a part of this society but was fired. Why would Miguel show footage of universes with Spider-Men that he hasn't recruited unless he knows they would not agree with him. I know someone who created Spectacular along with Josh Keaton thought Spectacular wouldn't agree with Miguel and that creator said it could be a variant. And maybe that is the case with there being 2 or 3 Spider-Man Unlimited's shown.
@@Suii2008Spider-Man Unlimited and the 90s show are definitely not the same universe. Because in Unlimited I think Venom and Carnage are brothers while the 90s show has them as father and son. And just because Unlimited had a scene with the 90s theme doesn't mean they're the same as we saw with the MCU having the 90s X-Men theme and earth 838 having the X-Men theme. I do think your theory about Unlimited being a variant of 90s could be correct. Not trying to be rude, just saying what I think.
Yes! This is exactly how this would play out. If anyone could tell Miguel how full of it he is, and a reeeeeeally good point was brought up here, it's the guy that has saved the multiverse, lost and found his girlfriend again, and gone through a whoooooole lot of crap!
0:58 It was funny hearing that coming from 90's spider-man when his voice actor actually voiced miguel in Edge of Time and got that same lecture from Josh Keaton's spidey, lol
If we're bringing in 90s Spider-Man, can we bring in 90s Spider-Man 2099? Y'know, the one who would go on to unite humanity as a civilian leader, and even be worthy to lift Mjölnir?
I don't think it's a coincidence that, in the entire Spider Society, there is only one Miguel. I think he keeps it that way on purpose because he knows the one person who can talk him out of it the most and could see through his bs the most would be himself.
I love peters out burst of "You're pathetic!" In response to miguels lack of an actual argument to his question about miles supposedly being an anomaly I hope peter b parker has a similar inteaction with miguel in beyond
I don't think that gotta happen. Since Miguel isn't wrong his misguied so instead of a man rosting a "villain" is gotta be a friend helping a friend to go back to the right track. He was there.@@MadHawkMoody
I think they should've added a scene like this in the final movie, but maybe that would've been a little bit of a spoiler for the reveal. Maybe they can bring back 90's Spider-Man in Beyond the Spider-Verse
Hoenstly, I don't blame this version of Miguel (Yes I say "this version" because Edge of Time and Shattered Dimensions Miguel exist (also Ultimate Spider-Man Miguel)) for giving up the Spider-Man code. He watched a variant of his world and family collapse and vanished before his very eyes, so his depressed view of the multiverse and canon events are reasonable. But that doesn't make him right.
@@dylansharp8471 How can uncle Ben's and Stacy's deaths be canon events if Iron Spider is married to Gwen Stacy and his uncle Ben is alive and well in his timeline? Tobey's Gwen is alive, we can assume Tom's is too. So that basically shows that "canon events" are bogus that the movie used to force you to sympathize with O'Hara (who himself is a bastardized version of the character already). And if you're asking about 90's Spiderverse then it's because the whole idea of multiple Spider-Men was introduced in the 90's animated series where the point was to show that Peter grew through the series.
@@dylansharp8471I have the theory that both Miguel and Miles are right and wrong about the Canon Events at the same time. All the examples you did was done by the same people of the same universe, it was Tobey's Peter who saved his Gwen Stacy. It was the 90s rich Peter who catche the thief and let Ben alive. But in the otherhand, Miguel O'Hara disrupt a canon event by intervining in an universe that wasn't his. It would be way different if instead of Tobey's Peter saving Gwen Stacy a portal appear and Andrew's Peter saved her instead. This theory was futher confirmed after George Stacy of Earth-65 quit form being a police officer it was HIS decicion inspired by HIS Gwen. We can still have INDIRECT outside help. Such as Miles Morales helping Peter B. Parker to become a dad or Gwen's departoure to his universe make George Stacy to quit his job. If Miles wanted to help Pavitr he could focus on the bus and let Pavitr just focus to save Inspector Singh since that wouldn't mess with the Canon. I think that Gwen discovered that and that Miguel qould discover that too. Making saving Jefferson Davis' all in Miles' shoulders now.
Funny that edge of time Peter is also here considering that he was willing to risk everyone's lives to prevent something that wouldn't happen anyway if Miguel's plan worked.
To be fair, Time Travel can be easily be used to fix a universe, it's another case where doing anything that was fixed point can lead to more problems.
First Madame Web scolding O'Hara like a strict Aunt or Grandmother was perfect, and this one... Just makes it better. There is so much wrong in Miguel's perspective, he's following what he believes, and he's making other variants follow that choice, it's as if they're afraid of him.
Funny how if the 90s spiderman would have had madamweb to show Miguel hes wrong and that hes right. But also remember that theres a spiderman that got everything they would ever want, ubcle ben is alive, is dating gwen and is an owner if a great company. Miguel seems to have cherry picked the spiders that fit his idea
Fr Miguel is kind of arrogant in the comics but he is way closer to being Spider-Man imo, he still bust his ass to save whole timeline and he is funnier
YOU'RE PATHETIC! So that's it? You're afraid to fail - AGAIN?! TOUGH! I've lost more times than i've won, and every damn time i got back up! That's all that matters! When victory is easy, it's cheap! Every fight that's ever been worth fighting has been against adversity! Against a so-called "unbeatable" foe! But there is no such thing! Every enemy has a weakness! You just have to find it! Once! You just have to win ONE TIME! We all have feet of clay. We all fall down. But in us is the spirit! It's not the powers of the SPIDER that makes any of us who we are! It's the will of MAN! So get up! Get up and fight! (c) even Otto Octavius as Spider-Man had more resolve that ASV Miguel
@@milesbradshaw6643not necessarily. An antagonist is someone who opposes the protagonist but they’re not evil. Miguel wants to make sure history doesn’t repeat itself and another world is erased by the distribution of canon events. Miles wants to save every world and everyone. They both have good intentions but how they go about it differs and they don’t agree with each other.
@@MidnightShadowStrikerwhat he means is we don't like the only mainstream version of him atm being depicted like this, for someone that likes the charactee in the comics, seeing the fandom on mass saying he doesn't deserve to be spider-man is descouraging.
@@Mr.Maguro that I understand and I agree. I know a little about Miguel before this movie and it’s kinda sad to see so many ppl misunderstand him and pin him as the bad guy
If Edge of Time Miguel (literally voiced by 90s Spidey) came in and kicked SV Miguel around for not getting Spider-Man, then Across becomes 10/10 to me. Otherwise, it'll be a 8 or 9 and say they should've used Superior Spidey instead.
It was really sad that Animated Series Spider-Man wasn’t in ATSV, considering that Christopher Daniel Barnes was rumored to come back to voice Animated Series Spidey for the movie, only for him to address himself that the rumors were just simply that… rumors. Now at first I thought he was covering it up so that nobody knew he was in the movie, much like how Andrew Garfield infamously said he’s “not the Werewolf” when everyone was pointing out the fact that he was obviously in No Way Home to the point where every live action Spider-Man villain showed up in the trailers… but when I first watched ATSV in it’s premiere day, I was shocked & disappointed 90s Spidey didn’t show up, and realized that Chris Barnes was telling the truth.
Я думаю хорошо что его здесь нет. Здешним Пауки это не Человек Пауки, потому что Человек Паук так не поступает и это только испортило бы его, так что рад что я его там не увидел, потому что по правде, Человек Паук 94 уделал бы их всех, в том числе за то, что они тут учинили, как он уже делал это раньше.
Dear lord he spitting truths. We need more of this amazing content. Now we need any version of Spiderman talk to other heroes like the avengers or x men.
Beyond The SpiderVerse must have scenes of various famous versions of Spider-Man (90’s, Spectacular, Lego, Insomniac, etc) going against Miguel and his philosophy, until eventually, Miguel’s grip of the Spider Society completely breaks
I was really hoping he would be in ATSV with Spectacular! I was sad he wasn't but I know that they are saving him for Beyond the Spider-Verse for sure, Great work as always bro! 👏
I agree being spider man do not mean let somebody die I think Miguel need to understand that I do not think he have the right to call him self spider man
I got the fortune cookie reference lol. Please tell me this is setting up an EoT Miguel and ATSV Miguel showdown, complete with a joke about how EoT's voice sounds like "That Preachy Do Gooder Animated Series Spider-Man."
He was Probably kicked by Miguel from the "Spiderverse", But he Has His own group of Spidermans thanks to Madam Web, So thats not a big problem At all, He probably dont even Know what is Happening with miles XD
All I'm gonna say Canon Events can be rewritten. Retcons is a regular thing in the superhero industry as a whole. People might say it's only in the comics but what's stopping a writer or producer to change things in the cannon. I'm on the side of EOT Spider-Man and Miles
Well you can say that because we have viewer vision just like the watcher in WHAT IF or even know about the 4th wall breaks like deadpool,gwenpool or she hulk, so we know what's all gonna happen and know what retcons are, the characters don't cause there in the situation as were just watching or reading about it, now if the spider verse characters had our viewer vision then this whole canon event thing wouldn't even be a discussion
Funny thing. If you're a comic book fan you know there are no such thing as "canon events". Not even a superheros origin stories are set in stone, details are always changing so there is no such thing a "set time line", in fact, you messing with the flow of one timeline means YOU are the anomaly
@@VisualEnjoyer9756 im not a comic book nerd, but i have to ask sth regarding "origins not being set in stone" : Isnt Spidermans origin always the same? You did mention the changing details, but i dont remember any MAJOR details except for that Spiderman "what if Aunt May died instead of Uncle Ben?", but thats only a "what if".
@@andrei3436 What I mean by "Not set in stone" is while the major factors mostly stay the same the details surrounding what lead to those events taking place change all the time. Take Batman for instance. Some times he and his parents were leaving the cinema, sometimes they were leaving an opera. Why they were leaving also changes. Sometimes he wanted to leave through the alley, sometimes Alfred was late with the car, sometimes they just took a shortcut or sometimes the killer coherced them into the alley to rob them. See what I mean? Sometimes minor details end up being major factors at play into the wider scheme of things so Miguel wanting the bigger details to play out would make HIM the anomally in need of correcting because HE'S the one messing with the natural flow of a set timeline. He has no idea of how a timeline SHOULD play out, he just knows the general idea of how a Spider-Man story should play out, how it plays out in each timeline is what he ignores so if you put it into perspective... The whole concept of a "canon event" is irrelevant. Yes Uncle Ben dying is a big event for a Peter Parker but that's not the "canon event", it's the choice Peter makes of letting the shooter go that's the "canon event". "The devil is in the details", there is no "canon event" because whatever triggers Spider-Man becoming Spider-Man depends on the choices made in each universe. Miguel is the anomally, not Miles.
@VisualEnjoyer9756 see this is someone who agrees with me about miles, cause why would letting people die save a universe? Cause what's the point of being spider man and not trying to save people? Cause it looks when Miguel went to his dead self's universe he messed with the time stream causing that universe to implode on itself so I guess in this case there are no "canon events" so if you change enough it won't destroy anything
The reason 90's, the REAL spectacular, Tobey, Andrew, and Tom, and even ultimate weren't there was because they wouldn't agree with Miguel's ideology, only TRUE Spider-Men wouldn't join with him ....and because they probably couldn't squeeze more popular Spider-Men was because of money, licencing, and getting the voice actors back
@@antyep look up Miguel sends Gwen home; when Gwen ask Miguel if he knows what happens if Mike’s breaks the canon look to the right you will see ultimate
@@dwn2earthguy899 My personal hope is that he and Madame Web are going to help Miles in the alternate dimension. After all, it was The Spot that sent MJ away, so this could, potentially, tie into that storyline. Then again, the new fans wouldn't hardly understand that and it's doubtful too many modern people have watched an old saturday morning cartoon from the 90s.
God! This is what I love about the retro versions of spider man. You can still see that the main fundamentals of being spider man that Stan Lee layed into him is still present. It's almost as if these spider man (excluding O'Hara) still bear the thought and memory of Uncle Ben and his final words; something i didnt see enough of in the movie
Tbf, Miguel did something similar to what Miles is going to try to do he's just trying to make sure that universes don't collapse in on itself. It's 1 life against trillions, he doesn't really have a choice.
The plan of miguel does not sense, if you are right, let the kid learn the hardway, if you are wrong, scrap you doom yourself, but our guy can't take the chance that he has the chance to have to do anything trying to make his situation savable, but in his poor attemot to mantain what he call security is the risk of being a happy guy
Nice to see the 90s Spider-Man to bring up how Miguel overlooked the most important aspect of being Spider-Man; not letting people suffer or die due to doing nothing. Of course, Edge of Time Spider-Man had to be there to hear it since he said the same thing to his Miguel.
You know, this reminds me of the video I saw from this RU-vidr named Classicmand where he said and I quote “Miguel likes to push a narrative and surround himself with people who fit that narrative,” The Spider-Man and spider woman Miguel recruited in his Spider-society are ones that fit outside the normal variant of the Spider-Man we know, other versions of Spider-Man who believe his canon event headcanon with no questions asked while not recruiting the ones who would question his logic and call him out on not getting what being Spider-Man is about, like these two Spider-men, 616 Spider-Man, Marvel’s Ultimate Spider-Man from Disney XD, and the three live action Spider-Men who just recently saved the villains who already died in their universes. So yeah if any of these guys make an appearance in Beyond the Spider-Verse, expect them to side with Miles and call out Miguel for not understanding the first thing about being Spider-Man.
Of course he couldn’t be in the movie. He would’ve stolen the spotlight from Miles and undermine the whole “Miles is the only one that TRULY knows what it means to be Spider-Man out of everyone” thing it was going for
I don’t think Miles is the only one. Hobie for sure agrees. And we notice that some Spider-men weren’t there. I’m sure Miguel only recruits those he can convince he’s right.
@@makisbizarreadventure4669 Heck, they had a spiderman from mad max land, and it was a girl apparently, which I have a hard time believing was a good person. Heck, Miguel himself breaks the whole "canon events" spiel since he himself is not peter parker or any variant of peter parker. I'm still convinced it was him that ultimately caused the multiversal destruction and is just using Miles as a scapegoat.
Only if EoT Miguel is here. To proof this miguel wrong. Since he agrees with Eot Peter what it means to be Spiderman. & What's it is actually important is.
I miss 90’s spider man there wasn’t other spider people (besides Ben) in the show and every character was interesting and madam web wasn’t boring but had a mysterious power and background to her. And not shiting on spider man.
