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In Defence of... The Way of the Four Elements Monk - DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE - Slice and Dice 

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Wanted to play a character that would become the Avatar, harnessing the power of the elements? Or otherwise want to play a Monk that can also Fly or cast Fireball? You may have wanted to try The Way of the Four Elements... but perhaps you were dissuaded by friends, videos or online forums, who claim the subclass needs to be "FIXED". Well, we here at Slice & Dice say: DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!
In this video, Jack discusses all aspects of the subclass, why it's much better than people think, but also ways it could be tweaked or used. Gather your Ki points, and watch on!
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25 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 30   
@aarons.8161
@aarons.8161 Год назад
This is a pretty good video and has made me want to go try an Four Elements Monk someday. That said, there is a couple things that one could do to me the subclass even better. 1. Ki-Fueled Strike from Tashas. All the Elemental Disciplines (save for one) require you to spend at least 1 Ki as an action. You can then follow that up with a Bonus Action Unarmed Strike or Attack with a Monk Weapon. Note, some Monk Weapons are Ranged Weapons. From thrown (dagger, hand axe, Light Hammer, Javelin, spear, and Darts) and Ranged Weapons (Sling, Shortbow and Light Crossbow). Then more with Dedicated Weapon (after you gain proficiency with them first). 2. With some Elemental Disciplines being Spells, either taking a dip into Sorcerer or the Metamagic Adept Feat, would grant you ways to alter your Elemental Spells. Though, I don't think Quicken Spell would work as the Disciplines require you to spend Ki points as an action. Though Careful Spell, Distant Spell, Empowered Spell, Extend Spell, Heightened Spell, Transmute Spell and even Twinned Spell could all be quite useful for a Four Elements Monk. Casting Rush of the Gale Spirits, yet having the winds bend around your allies while pushing the enemies away. Flames of the Phoenix, instead becomes, Waves of the Phoenix, Winds of the Phoenix, Stone of the Phoenix. Clench of the North Winds now holds two targets instead of one, or even Eternal Mountains Defense, Mist Stance, and Ride the Wind could potentially be twinned, targeting not only yourself, but one other as well (Note: None are self targeting spells, just single target by default, though may be up to GM if they'd allow twinning the Disciplines).
@marssmit84
@marssmit84 3 года назад
Fizzban’s treasury of dragons includes a belt that lets a Monk recover a Martial arts die worth of Ki once per day. Also increases your Ki save DC. That will help this subclass a lot. Something else to consider is one level of Arcana Cleric to get Booming Blade and Green Flame blade as Cleric Cantrips and GFB working off Wisdom . You also get 2 Level 1 spells and can scribe scrolls!
@binolombardi
@binolombardi Год назад
While a few of the elemental disciplines aren’t actually spells, they are all magical. The unique non spell effects won’t be able to be dispelled, counterspelled, or impacted by globe of invulnerability. All of them would be impacted by a beholders anti magic cone or some other anti magic field. Another thing to keep in mind is that the features water whip and fist of unbroken air would be subject to magic resistance since they’re still magical.
@HighPhoenix1754
@HighPhoenix1754 3 года назад
Honestly, when I played it at first, I was frustrated with how little I was able to do. But, once I started to think of the elements as an extra tool in the monk tool box I became a very valued member of the party-- shoving enemies around, being able to move around and get to places that my other party members couldn't get to, all with that elemental and sage like feel.
@sliceandd6
@sliceandd6 3 года назад
I think that's perfectly understandable, particularly at level 3 as you essentially have 1 elemental trick that you can do (outside of the Elemental Attunement discipline) which you will likely only use occasionally. It's great fun to play though, and I believe it will only become more fun at higher levels and with more disciplines. I'm glad you feel the same way!
@binolombardi
@binolombardi 3 года назад
So you focused more on base class features? That doesn’t seem like a strong endorsement for the subclass.
@HighPhoenix1754
@HighPhoenix1754 3 года назад
@@binolombardi Nope, I integrated base class features more with smart usage of subclass features. All of what I said was achieved through this integration. I was using subclass features roughly 50% of the time or more while playing that character.
@binolombardi
@binolombardi 3 года назад
@@HighPhoenix1754 do you have any examples of what those smart uses were? I’m playing a 4 elements monk next.
@HighPhoenix1754
@HighPhoenix1754 3 года назад
@@binolombardi during lower levels, I didn't spam much and only used things like Fist of Unbroken Air or Water Whip if it granted my melee teammates (Had a Barbarian and a Paladin at the time in the party along with a Wizard) advantage while simultaneously keeping any combatants who got through my Frontline away from my squishy backline. Also used the fact that they could reposition enemies to my advantage in clutch situations. Like knocking a warlord off a cliff. That was fun. By level 6 I had a solid AOE option in Gong of the Summit (Shatter) and ways to shatter through walls and make both entrances and exits. By level 11 "Ride the Wind" (Fly) Gave me great mobility to continue to use the options given before. Just as with the base monk, position is key and I used the elemental disciplines to extend my reach and enable me to do monk stuff from a longer distance.
@DurandalsFate
@DurandalsFate 3 года назад
The Ki Fueled Strike in _Tasha's_ helped to address one of the big gripes about this subclass, which is the opportunity cost of using Elemental Disciplines. So now you can more easily mix your elemental powers with your martial arts; for example, you can pull someone close and hit them, or knock them prone and then hit them, or paralyze them and still get a hit in, or cast _fly_ and then go up and hit your enemy. Absolutely agree with allowing players to take an extra Elemental Discipline at 3rd/6th/11th/17th, and allowing them to switch Elemental Disciplines whenever they level. Also agree they should have added in the Elemental Evil spells; while the Arcane Trickster and Eldritch Knight continued to get more versatile every time new wizard spells were released, the Four Elements monk was forgotten. But as the power creep continues with every new release, the Way of the Ascendant Dragon has several features that a lot of people dreamed of adding to the Four Elements monk: changing your unarmed strike damage to an elemental damage type of your choice, an extra language (they get Draconic, while the Four Elements should get Primordial), an elemental damage breath weapon that you can use for *0* ki points a number of times equal to your proficiency modifier, enhanced Step of the Wind at 6th level, an elemental damage resistance aura at 11th level, and even more AoE elemental damage at 17th level. I think that's a bit much, but here's another idea that really adds to the flavor of the Four Elements monk on a regular basis. (Keeping in mind that we don't want the features to compete with the monk's existing features but rather complement them, and we don't want the subclass to become overpowered.) Take those non-damage elemental cantrips - _control flames, gust, mold earth,_ and _shape water_ - and allow the Four Elements monk to take one of those cantrips at each of their feature levels: 3rd, 6th, 11th, and 17th. Then allow them to cast those cantrips as _free actions_ when they use certain ki features: * Immediately before or after you use Flurry of Blows, you may cast _control flames_ or _mold earth_ as a free action. * Immediately before, during, or after you Dash using Step of the Wind, you may cast _gust_ or _shape water_ as a free action. * Immediately before or after you Disengage using Step of the Wind, you may cast _control flames_ or _gust_ as a free action. * Immediately before or after you use Patient Defense, you may cast _mold earth_ or _shape water_ as a free action. Additionally, when you spend a ki point to throw a missile caught with Deflect Missiles, you may deal 1d4 additional damage. If you know _control flames,_ you may make this additional damage fire damage. If you know _gust,_ you may make it magical slashing damage. If you know _mold earth,_ you may make it magical bludgeoning damage. If you know _shape water,_ you may make it cold damage. (It's not a lot, but it encourages you to use that monk feature and you get a little something extra.) That way, when you do the ordinary things monks do, you get some elemental flavoring and have opportunities for creative tactics, without going gonzo. It encourages the DM to think about how they use objects, water features, and other terrain.
@akmi1931
@akmi1931 Год назад
A lot you mentioned I had included in redesign of the W4E monk. Including the 4 cantrips. But I also redesigned its casting to where it’s “spells” aren’t actually spell you cast but are “Spell-like” monk abilities that you can instead of casting.
@Sleeplessmaster
@Sleeplessmaster 3 года назад
Hi Slice, ty for the opinion on the class: I have been learning it for one of my player and see where all the backlash comes from. I think you are right about being careful at making the class too OP. on another note, please drop the cutscene music volume drastically: the number of time it hurt my ears because my volume was high to listen to you was not fun; the content is, not the sudden rock concert lol
@sliceandd6
@sliceandd6 3 года назад
Thanks for the feedback Mario - we'll try and get the balance better for the next video!
@mattnerdy7236
@mattnerdy7236 3 года назад
Hello Slice & Dice, this is the video I have been waiting for! I agree with you this class is over looked. I looked up the warlock's invocation and the warlock can switch out invocation at every new level, so why can't this class. The base cost to cast a cantrip or 1st level spell is 2 ki points plus one ki point per level above 1st level. I believe 5th level is the highest spell level. So with this in mind you can add new spells, with your DM's approval. Thanks for going over each disciple of the elements and spells, shape the flowing water, I completely over looked that one, seems like an excellent choice at 3rd level. Finally, the bugbear has a 10 foot reach, with fangs of the fire snake the bugbear now has a 20 foot reach, WoW! Jedi Knight: PSI Warrior (TCoE) all this character will need is the Sun Blade, (Variant Human, Feat: Telepathy). Thanks Slice & Dice have a wonderful day.
@sliceandd6
@sliceandd6 3 года назад
Thanks Matt, glad we could help! With the release of Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, there are new optional features for the monk that help the 4 Elements monk synergise much better with the base class (Ki-Empowered Strikes seemingly built especially for 4E monks). This should drop on our channel next week - and I hope you find it just as helpful. Have a great day! :)
@HeroG9000
@HeroG9000 2 года назад
You need some serious adjustments on the music and sound levels, you really blasted my ear drums with your transitions
@sliceandd6
@sliceandd6 2 года назад
Hi Hero, yes apologies for the imbalance here, I’ve now got new software that’s a lot easier to adjust levels so future audio should be a lot better balanced
@KingMJAH
@KingMJAH 3 года назад
When they add this to boldersgate 3 it’s going to be powerful I think, specifically how they treat elemental effects, and the cool environment effects.
@sliceandd6
@sliceandd6 3 года назад
very excited for that! Once the full game releases, do you think we should play it on livestream?
@HighPhoenix1754
@HighPhoenix1754 3 года назад
@@sliceandd6 wouldn't be too bad of an idea. If the game lives up to the hype.
@ZaWyvern
@ZaWyvern 3 года назад
I'm playing one in our current campaign. I multiclassed with a hexblade warlock. Just a few levels. The hexblade abilities and spells really stack nicely with the monk ones and the couple of ki points lost are more than made up for by the extra spells, especially hex, and at will abilities. With Tasha's dedicated weapon and ki empowered strike it works well with using a weapon, so don't suffer as much with the slower progression of the martial arts die. And of course both classes refresh after a short rest. Plus the RP is nice, a corrupted temple of assassins, thinking they're doing good... But maybe not.
@sliceandd6
@sliceandd6 3 года назад
Hi Joshua, wow that's a MAD build but sounds good fun! And, of course, being able to get everything back on a short rest makes great synergy between the two classes!
@marc0s158
@marc0s158 2 года назад
hmm i am a year late on this one. Okay! I find the biggest downfall of Wo4E is not having enough impact in an average adventuring day. At lvl 3, you can use one discipline in combat before being locked out of your subclass. your elemental attunement is potentially useful, but unfortunately such flavor/utility is easily grabbed by a full caster. so by the time you get your utility feature, another player has likely been using an equivalent for the last two levels. Short rests are common, but not free. to compare it to the fighter: battlemaster, psi warrior, rune knight, and even samurai can all utilize their subclass combat abilities more than once per short rest right at lvl 3. An argument can be made that stronger features should be available less often, but I think I am safe to say 80% of the Wo4E options are not stronger/comparable to the fighter subclasses. finally, in using ki, it not only limits subclass features, but main class features as well, which is something not found anywhere else in dnd5e (if I'm not mistaken). This is a list of unfortunate issues, and i have been highlighting early levels in particular, but that doesn't mean It isn't enjoyable to play. I really love the flavor and the characters i can build. but .. With power creep It has gotten increasingly difficult to feel impactful as a WO4E monk. There are a lot of trap options, and it is easy for players to spend 8+ levels feeling jealous of the other monk subclass. You made a good point in it being more enjoyable around 10th, but most games end at 10th level, so... sadly most people just see the grind, and none of the perks if dnd5e is truely moving towards a 5.5e, I home this is one that gets a work over.
@Tekgnome.
@Tekgnome. 2 года назад
Helpful criticism here. Please adjust your music to match the volume levels of your mic. Every time there's a transition between you talking to music, the music is extremely loud.
@dominicl5862
@dominicl5862 Год назад
You make good points and then contradict yourself almost right away. The idea that its unique to cast spells isn't even unique to monks (shadow, sun) let alone a martial character. If you consider that a lvl 11 character (im assuming now, white room): would use some ki points for stunning strike, dodge, dash, increase accuracy, etc. AND cast at least a spell, hopefully two or three. The monk just can't do all of what people praise of them being able to do all at once. If you are able to get a short rest ever 2 fights then the problems go away almost immediately. Another thing. There is no elemental monk that will out cast a full caster, let alone a half caster. I also cannot believe you said a monk is the most jedi thing you've seen in 5e. A Bladesinger does exactly what you describe, a man in flowing robes wielding a sword in one hand a blasting away foes with his other open palm. Now just imagine you can use your powers more often, get better choices and much more versatile, get a combat ability that makes you better in melee than a monk. I played a Bladesinger 1-15 and i literally flavored it that he came from a monastery's library, training in martial arts and spells. We need to stop sugar coating that monks are poorly designed "FROM A GAMEPLAY" perspective. I also love the flavor and versatility and lore and imagery of a monk. I just wish the class was designed to meet the standards of the game.
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