PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE COMMENTING. So Book 4 came out, and contrary to what many of us hoped, we didn't get the MLM representation we would have liked. It was still a delightful season and I enjoyed it. PLEASE REFRAIN from dropping snarky, mean-spirited, or otherwise unkind comments pointing out how this video "got it wrong." I made this video because it's a topic that is important to me personally, and the discourse surrounding Infinity Train at the time gave me a platform to discuss something that I care about, and in a relative amount of depth. I am not going to delete or de-list this video. At the end of the day, Min and Ryan were just a catalyst for me to discuss the broader topic and the recent history of LGBTQ+ representation in cartoons. I don't want to turn comments off for this video, because there are still so many wonderful responses I got to this video that make doing what I do worthwhile
@@petscopkid me too friend, me too. I will make a video about Book 4, and will unpack why I think their relationship is more than platonic in as much detail as I can
Honestly the only thing that really points to them maybe being gay is how Ryan (I think it was Ryan) Blushing after min hugs him. And how every relationship Ryan had was with a female but each one never worked out
I have a bunch of theories. It’s either an unhealthy co-dependent relationship, a one-sided romance, or they both have feelings for each other but won’t admit it.
When I first saw the trailer I thought it was going to be another depressing one where Min-Gi and Ryan had to come to terms with unresolvable issues with their relationship and part ways but damn I like option three a lot better and there’s lots of evidence for it!
god i really hope it's not the 2nd one, one-sided feelings make me so sad lol. on the other hand, i really hope they don't end up parting ways because that would be equally painful, but the trailer really emphasized that even with their problems, they want to be together so i don't think that's it.
It’s gotta be one of those I’m hopping that is not an unhealthy relationship dynamic. My hope is they both have feelings for each other but don’t want to admit it. Since it seems like this book is a prequel it would make sense for them to hide their feelings given the time period of ppl are correct about that. Also they probably don’t want to potential ruin their friendship by admitting their feelings for each other
I have two theories for this book: 1. They have feelings for eachother, and neither of them want to admit it in fear of destroying the friendship. That could've been why they sound a little nervous when they say "best friends", kind of like they want it to be something more but are afraid to move forward. 2. They're drifting away from eachother and don't want to admit it. This could also be a reason why they sound a little nervous when they say "best friends", like they want to pretend everything is fine and not acknowledge that they're drifting apart.
These are both really well-considered ideas, either could be totally possible. From what Owen Dennis has said thus far, this season is going to be lighter in tone than previous seasons were, which has me thinking no.1 is more likely than no.2, but it's all about execution
I want it to be number 1 more than number 2. I really hope it’s number 1 and they both eventually get together in the season. Either one could happen I’m hoping for number 1 with a happy ending. Also I love your profile picture
I really want them to be gay. We really deserve some MLM characters I mean I love all lesbians but in some how the creators of various shows are forgetting about gay men and we have to fight and ask them to give us content about this, not all world is lesbian. So I really wish Inifnity Train does that (
@@boywithnoname4079 but then that's just giving the reason to the straight people. Just imagine putting more WLW représentation just cuz is more acceptable cuz is fetishized for straight man. Then why is the Lgbtq figth for? Wr have the représentation for.us or.for them to like us?
I told my friends that they were actually lovers and my friends don't think so, but my gut feeling just say that they either love each other in a romantic way or the problem is because one of them don't want to follow the singer career, or maybe it is both
I'm pretty happy how Infinity Train could do something a bit more original with representing mlm protagonists in a modern cartoon, rather than going with the wlw protagonist route, which gets so much more representation than mlm does (in modern-day cartoons). Don't get me wrong, wlw representation is important, but people are forgetting mlm relationships need good representation too. Also I really hope one of them is confirmed bi, because we SERIOUSLY need to normalize men being bisexual
I agree there needs to be better representation across the board but especially for mlm. We have gotten more wlm representation witch is great but there should be representation for different relationships that can happen with LGBTQ+ ppl. You don’t want to forget a portion of ppl in the group that are also super important
w/w relationships tend to be less shocking for the heterosexual male audience, and thus less probable to cause a riot about it. That being said, I'd actually like these both to be just friends. Friendship itself doesn't get much attention either. Normally it's something it exists in the world, but nothing they give much deepness about, and it saddens me sometimes. But it'll be fine for me no matter which route they decide to take.
@@BradySpector do you wanna type it up again? I saw a preview of it and wanted to read it properly. I set the video to "hold potentially inappropriate comments" but nothing in the preview of the comment seemed rude or inappropriate. RU-vid is just being WEIRD
@@bv0804 I know there's a playlist on Spotify which you can find here open.spotify.com/playlist/6G7Q2b8SPcKO2qNcZv59pW but I don't know about a soundtrack, like an OST
Though they're not in love as far as we know, I still love their dynamic, love the fact that they're Asian but raised in North America (like myself), and that they cry and hug, despite the fact that guys are typically told not to. Just little things that make me love this book so much
What if only one of them is gay and that character told the other that they liked them. Witch became very awkward. And they have to overcome this to continue being friends without one of there feelings to hurt their relationship
I really really hope we get a gay love story. Knowing how much historical and political context they crammed into Amelia’s short backstory, the fact that this book seems to be set in 80s america at the height of homophobia surrounding the aids pandemic it makes it seem like they’re setting it up for some kind of gay story. It’d make a lot of sense in that setting that their issue might be closeted feelings for each other they don’t want to accept because of homophobia. Plus more rep for gay men in animation is always great
i'm really hoping too that this new book explores that possibility! Especially because Owen Dennis (creator of Infinity Train) has made different statements on this season trying something pretty different from other seasons and that 'they hope it comes as a pleasant surprise to most fans', and like god i hope that means LGBT representation
I think the season was well in progress when it was confirmed that the show was canceled and that’s why we are getting the 4th season. I do hope they went full gay with this season
I have never even watched this show, but I watched the whole thing and now I'm excited to watch the show. You make such high quality videos its awesome!
@@ordinarygamer2655 no? Not sure where you got that idea. This was a really well done video by someone I’m subscribed to and if they enjoy it then I probably would too. That’s all
@@ordinarygamer2655 try reading the comment again. I’m praising the quality of video and because the creator enjoys the show, I think I might enjoy it too. Plus the clips I saw look intriguing to me. Idk why you felt the need to bring this up in the first place though but thanks
Absolutely criminal that you don’t have way more subscribers - Amazing analysis around queer representation in media and how the “one gay character” in many shows coming out right now is integral to building onto positive associations later (maybe even inspiring other shows like She-Ra). Infinity Train has had one of the best interpretations of a non-binary character, Lake, and I would be over the moon to see more incredible writing and LGBTQ+ characters and their issues! Makes me so happy to see myself in media like I couldn’t when I was younger.
I'm really happy you enjoyed my video! It's all developmental--if creators can prove to studio figureheads that LGBTQ+ representation isn't an instant death wish for their series, the studios will allow people to be increasingly bold with that representation
All I see in the comments is people trying to deny them being gay. Anyone could be gay. Relationships are diverse, and they need to be represented to confront stereotypes. We don't get to see male gay characters as protagonists that often, facing issues in their relationships and I realy hope the show takes this chance to show us this.
There are some comments which I did have to remove because they were so unpleasant. I'm really happy I've had so many comments like this one, comments that see what I saw and understand why it's important. Thanks for commenting and making my day better!
Even when we didn't get explicit mlm rep, it's OBVIOUS they're gay for each other. This video is really awesome and each time I see it it gets better and better. Now that we have more to analyze, I think we got a lot more clues that tell us a cool story. Also, Min saying he "has bad thoughts all the time" and seeing all of Ryan's past relationships with women fail, but still keep thinking about MIn all the time... You definetly were onto something in this video and I still love it.
Your video is so well edited, I love how far in depth you went into this especially with the Steven Universe section. Representation does matter, hopefully we get more of it in the future. Great video keep up the awesome work!!!
I'm still so surprised (in a good way) how many people have commented just to say how exciting it would be to see that kind of relationship!! I really hope it happens
I found more meaning for 202 -The meaning of 202 when it comes to Love. The message of the angel number 202 is to listen to your heart. ... You cannot regret something that's made out of love. Be open to the gifts and blessings that this love will bring into your life because they will make you a much better person. And -Being associated with Venus, the planet that essentially represents love and sexuality, number 202 is a good omen for love. To people whom angels send number 202 love comes in unexpected places and moments. The true love often happens only in times we do not seek for it or force ourselves to find it.
I already talked to my friends of all the ways that this season could go in my point of view: -maybe one of them gets out of the train before the other kinda like Jesse, you can see ryan's number going down and the door opens, probably min would have more things to work on. -they end up together, we see tensión between them but we don't know what kind of tensión. -they drift away in good terms, over the time they started to fell apart, the tensión that we see could be this. -they drift away in bad terms, *coff coff Simon and Grace coff coff* -one of them dies maybe trying to protect the other. idk I really look forward to a mlm couple in the show, I'm checking other options and not treating it like canon so I don't get disappointed.
in the animation of recent times, the lgbt + characters have been mostly women because they are better lived on a social level and i entered the television audience, but in the case of two gay men in a series transmitted by a children's channel, that is when the controversy begins, if in infinity train they can put two male protagonists, in a romantic relationship, it is because the series is on hbo max, since channels such as the cartoon network would not allow it, they had a good progress with the relationship of ruby and sapphire (characters from steven universe who look like women, although they are not gender), but when it comes to two boys it is different, usually for the worse, because of people with a retrograde / closed mentality or parents who recently worry about what their children see on tv, when a few decades ago no, for example cartoon network (a children's channel), it broadcast adolt suin, which had content not suitable for minors, but people get angry by representation, as if it was the same.
Since I saw the trailer, I could tell that their relationship is much more than friendship, it seems that they appreciate each other but there is something that without a doubt they are avoiding, which makes there a certain tension (romantic? platonic?) As I see it, It seems that without a doubt they like each other or one of them likes the other, but they do not admit it because being friends from childhood there is confusion or fear, because it could be like that unattainable or impossible love. So they just ignore it which makes them distance themselves and their relationship is at risk, I just hope that this season does not make me cry like the previous one and that those two come out alive and together from that train, of course reinforcing their relationship, it would be a great opportunity to be a canonical couple, infinity train has had some memorable characters each with a unique development. Whatever happens between the two of them, I know it's going to see a lot of drama about it.
Too bad we didn’t get the representation but I think we all know that they are gay lol. But besides that I really liked this video. It shows how important representation is and how it can change the world to be a more excepting place.
Well... Since this story probably takes place around the 1980's, it'll be quite the bumpy road for em' for a few years, when they get off the train together...
that might definitely be part of their relationship that they need to fix! one or both of them may have internalized homophobia that was forced into them from the stigma during that time period, and the main arc may be them having to get over that.
given that lake reads to me, a nonbinary person, as well as other trans people i know as a strong nonbinary and trans parallel, i would definitely not be surprised if the show had these two be at least implicitly romantic. the people working on infinity train do seem to care a lot about its representation even though they're still working under the potential of being censored and all that.
And if not mistaken, a crewmember said that the two cops (Mace and Sieve) where a cuple. also in the crew book that owen dennis got from the crew, there was some story board art of the two of the dancing and of them was Sieve kissing Mace in the neck.
Don't forget, they've already shown an LGBTQ representation in the show. Lake is literally non-binary and they leave the train together with Jesse. So having more representation in the show wouldn't be completely different from what we've already seen
I don't think they're gay. I mean just because they're friends doesn't automatically make them gay. they're in a band so I believe they have to work hard as a team as well work on they're trust issues or else the band will break apart. but if they are gay that's cool too.
is anyone gonna talk about how theyre wearing an outfit like amelia’s? did all old train passengers have to wear costumes like that until she took over as the false conductor?
presumably so! It certainly legitimizes the widely-held belief that this series takes place in the past (the 80s or 90s seem to be the popular decades)
I’m literally just finished watching season four about three minutes ago oh my god they did representation right, that’s what I’ll tell you it’s not what you expect but they did it right and you can tell that there is romance
I did really enjoy Min and Ryan's dynamic. I agree there's definitely romance, and I'll unpack that in a later video, although it would have been nice to see something a little more overt, but that's just me. I also very much appreciated that they didn't leave the cultural aspect unspoken
@@CurmudgeonMedia It is good enough that from my understanding Disney green light season 2 before airing episode 1 of it. Also it's cute with some gay stuff in there (Forgot to add. Some people like episode 1 others it takes episode 2 to see where the show shines)
Tbh I feel like, while they weren't able to make it explicit, the intention is certainly there. I'm guessing the romance arc got turned down, possibly due to the sexualization of mlm, but the subtext is rather apparent, just like with lake in book 2
As much as I’d love mlm (what I’m presuming means Male Loves Male) to be incorporated into the show I doubt that’ll happen, not to say it doesn’t have a decent chance on happening but it’s just my personal thoughts.
that's fair enough! honestly I just wanted to use the opportunity talk a little about the recent history of representation and the context surrounding it
@@smashlimeblogspot1 I did! Thank you, I'm glad you like them! All the drawings and animatics are all done by me, I post art sometimes on our Instagram c:
4:57 I'm italian and when the episode when Ruby asked to Sapphire to marry her,in the Italian dub she says:"Sapphire...do you want to be with me?" Like they weren't been lovers. But,fortunately,their kiss they didn't censor it.
thanks so much for the kind words! we're trying to build a little community, and we hope you subscribe for more stuff c: we're putting a discord together as well!
While I would love to see the 2 leads be in a relationship. I'm not getting that vibe from the trailer. To me the storyline seems more like "Long time friends who start to drift apart." I would be very glad to be proven wrong. But we'll have to wait and see
Even if we didn't got what we wanted this is still an amazing video that talks about a very important topic. Hopefully on the future we'll get the representation we wanted
Dude, I just want books 5 through 8 because they wanted 8 books. (Because 8 on its side is the infinity symbol ♾) Infinity train is my #1 favorite show and after this comes out, I’m boycotting CN.
It'll be curious to see if Infinity Train will return in the future like Samurai Jack did, and with a more mature tone. We know for sure that Owen Dennis would love to write the series for an adult audience
So they're not gay. That's fine. Had they been gay, that would have been fine too. We still have gay dudes in Kipo and other shows, and I'm sure there will be more down the line. However, I wish people would stop shipping characters just because they looked at each other, and then get mad when their ship doesn't happen. This applies to all kinds of ships and not just gay ones.
not sure if anyone is mad specifically, although I've not paid too much attention to Twitter since the season dropped. As for myself, I enjoyed book 4, and I'll be making a video about it as and when. I'm glad I made this video because I wanted to take the opportunity to talk about a topic that matters to me
HEY HI YOU MAKE VERY HIGH-QUALITY AND ENTERTAINING VIDEOS!!! YOU ARE CRIMINALLY UNDERATED AND IM HERE TO OFFER MY SUPPORT BY SUBSCRIBING!! And hopefully this doesn't come off as weird but!!! Your voice in general feels very natural and nice to listen to for extended periods of time and I thought that was neat :o!!!
To me its hinted to them being brothers rather than anything else, maybe twins, giving them the same number (obv not identical twins). The "tension" you mention could just be them trying to say that they're perfectly fine in their relationship as brothers, but not as friends.
@@CurmudgeonMedia I didn't know they were name dropped so I guess I was wrong, or someone was adopted and keeping their last name. Either way, that does put your opinion at a greater advantage than mine.
Catradora is meh... i mean i get why its important to so many people as it was their first contact with a gay main couple in a cartoon being so important but it is not without its shortcomings
You're totally right, it's important to include when discussing this topic, but there were certainly aspects that could have been handled better. Noelle Stevenson is clearly super talented though, and I believe She-Ra was their first experience helming a show, let alone of that scale
She-ra was enemies to lovers, however it was done in a really toxic way. Catra tried to harm, maim, and kill both Adora and her friends at every opportunity she got, just to one up Adora because she had issues.
@@numnuts241 thought it was a wonderful series all in all. I'll definitely make a review, because there's a lot to be said in relation to this being "the last series," etc. The fact the characters didn't turn out to be romantically involved doesn't affect my opinion of the series. Like I say in my other speculation video, I was always down for whatever Owen Dennis had in store because he's a great showrunner. I am going to keep this video up though, because the primary purpose for this video was to explore the recent history of the discourse, and (as the title says) why it's important. The possibility of there being a romance really was just my window into talking about a topic I'm passionate about. If I get too many "ha ha they turned out to not be gay" comments, I may pin a comment explaining this aha I will also say that I still think the characters were heavily coded as romantically interested in one another, which I may explore whenever I make a review
Sugar didn't have great representation, for every moment that was good there were thousands more that were awful, harmful, tone deaf, or offensive. As hundreds of lgbt, people of color, and other marginalized groups have torn apart SU in countless essays, posts, videos, etc. The stuff with pearl lusting after pink and never getting over pink's death, aka the person pearl was given to as a slave. Not to mention most of the time the actual gay characters ruby and sapphire are shoved into a closet, and reduced to a character that does nothing but give exposition on fusion or whatever. (Edit: Not to mention you see many instances in the series where gems fuse for reasons that aren't romantic or important to a relationship, but just used to help fight a monster or move the plot. So not every fusion is a "carefully thought out relationship".) Not to mention every single lgbt character (except a one off character) in the show is either an alien or a fusion in a story where humans are present. I'll let you figure out why reducing all lgbt characters to aliens in a story where humans exists is problematic. There are many more issues with SU's bad lgbt, mental health, and racial representation. But I'm just talking about the lgbt stuff, so if you want to educate yourself on all of SU's other issues, then go read/watch the hundreds of essays, posts, videos, etc that lgbt people, people of color, and other marginalized groups have torn the show apart for.
This isn't great representation, infinity train is on an american exclusive steaming service. You want good representation have it not be on a country specific streaming service. Have it not be on a streaming service, have it be on actual tv. Foreign countries, and conservative parents in the US can easily deny lgbt content in streaming services, or up the age rating to adult/mature. Parents can chose to avoid the service or block the shows in question. With a show that is on air they can't do that as easily, when lgbt stuff comes into the show they aren't going to know that ahead of time, because it wasn't all dropped at once. So the show can still air uncensored for a while in those places.
Excuse the lateness, but it being a kids show is EXACTLY why people care. I assume you watched the video, so you probably heard about seeing yourself in media and having positive representation for giving positive and humanizing connotations in media as well as giving queer kids a positive example of strong and happy role models. There is so so few and we want more. Sorry if that sounded rude, but if you are still asking I recommend rewatching the video :) (also I would argue this is a early teenager show, it's a little more mature/dark/heavy than the average "kids" show)
i rewatched She-Ra with my brother recently who had never seen it, and now we've finished watching it and we've got a big hole in our hearts where She-Ra used to be :'(
@@CurmudgeonMedia hell yea man people need to know who you are, you deserve way more subscribers. Your gonna blow up I just know it, not many people animate the way you most people animate all cute and don’t put as much effort as you do. Your style is adorable and so detailed if you ever stop making videos that would suck pls keep making them 🙂
@@Incubusslut omg you're so kind!!! we're setting up a Discord server for folks like you to join, we'll post an update video with a link etc. so keep an eye out for that! c:
