Kinda odd to me that the guys wouldn’t even convincingly put Jokic in the top 10 big men. With what he does every season, I see no way that you can leave him off the top 10 list. He’s one of, if not the most, complete big man to play.
It's because it's boring. And I mean that in the most positive light because I am a lifelong Nuggets Fan and Jokic supporter. He comes in, it's not flashy then he sits down at the end of the game and he threw down 25 points 15 rebounds and 10 assists. It's just a very quiet methodical, and humble. Emdiid and Giannis have the celebrations and the attitude.
GIANNIS - 1,4 BLK 1 STEAL JOKIC - 1 BLK 1,4 STEAL. Defensive Rebound Pct - JOKIC - 2nd --------------GIANNIS 8th Defensive Box Plus/Minus - JOKIC - 1st -----------------GIANNIS 2nd Defensive Win Shares - JOKIC - 2nd ----------------GIANNIS 12th Steal Pct - JOKIC - 22nd-----GIANNIS 83th Block Pct- JOKIC -39th----------------GIANNIS 43th But if its not a CHASE BLOCK it doesnt count. I SEE GIANNIS getting drop in skates and nobody says a thing. EMBIID leaves his man alone all the time to get blocks thats why every body has a great game against EMBIID...
Do you really think that Shaq is capable to win championship without superstar player Kobe Bryant ???? Give JOKIC just 1 regular star player and he is good to win championship... NIKOLA + another superstar = absolutely NBA dominance
The level of disrespect for Joker keeps on rising. The best player in the league right now by a a huge margin, 2 times mvp 2 season in a row. If he wins a ring he is gonna be in conversation for the greatest big man to ever play the game, already probably top 3-5
I Agree with the statment Kenny said. When you come down the lane you think twice on shaq , you think twice on Akeem , you think twice on Kareem . for Joker he not that great on defense , you coming down the lane your thinking to go right at him .
@@jay4cee 1. Hakeem 2. Kareem 3.Shaq 4.Duncan 5. Jokic If he wins the ring he goes to spot number 1 or 2. The way he makes his teammates better and average triple double without chasing stats is completely insane, all that shooting 62% from the field...people dont understand how absurd these stats are
@@seunokix9319 my point exactly he’s the back to back MVP and continuing to create history and we hear more about players like Tatum Morant Embiid Luka and Durant over him when he’s literally one pace to be one of the best players ever and is already an all time great
@@paquinraino8180 Giannis won a title easier than the “bubble” he played no healthy teams that was 10 day contract year the most stats were out terrible season. At least in the bubble players were healthy and hooping
..Jokic is the most complete Center I have ever seen...Tim Duncan post moves, KG mid range jumper, with the 3 point shot and with the passing vision that is as good as anyone. Defensively he is not the liability that we typically see with great offensive players... Jokic is more skilled than Shaq, a better passer than Duncan...only thing he needs are rings...better playmaker than KG.
@@onlyfacts3178 shut it with the b.s stats.. why is it it that gsstate was picking on him in the pick n roll come playoff time. The eye test shows me he is a bad defender.
@@ozz7602 I can agree he wasn't a dominant defender during that series, but calling anyone inadequate at something for not measuring up against the current dynasty in the Warriors isn't the only eye test available. Also, you cannot ever say something as nutty as "don't use stats" in a sports discussion, that is illogical.
If defense was so important Magic and Steph wouldn't be considered top 10. Dirk wouldn't be considered one of the greatest PFs of all time. If you're so gifted offensively sometimes its okay if you're not a true two way player
Those guys are exceptions to the rule. Dirk the greatest shooting big man all-time, and Steph the greatest shooter all-time. Magic was a 6'9" point guard with all-time great playmaking and clutch ability. And lets be clear, Shaq was an absolute beast defensively and not just in title, he was All-defensive team 3 times while leading the Lakers 3-peat squad. You can always find exceptions to the rule but the majority of the greats were two-way in their prime.
@@masteroneal Joker is a 6'11'' point guard with all-time great playmaking and shot making. See what I did there? Joker's that special. His offence is that good.
They're saying Jokic isn't on that level because of defense, but Magic Johnson is ranked about top 5 all time on most people's list and he wasn't a particularly good defender, arguably worse than Jokic. Team defense is just as important to winning games as team offense but individual offense has alot more impact than an individuals Defense. Not saying it doesn't matter but Jokic isn't even bad on defense to say it's an issue. And he's arguably the best all around offensive big man ever because not only can he score and pass from every spot in the half court and start a fast break himself, but he can do it super efficiently and not in an overly ball dominant way that could be hard to play with.
NOW THIS IS THE CONVERSATION TO HAVE!!! everyone calls Luka Larry bird, but jokic shoots WAY BETTER and is a better passer; luka is a pick n roll passer, jokic orchestrates the offense; a true maestro the true heir to bird's point guard (forward)
Jokic is a Point Forwarding Center. Pretty simple. With all due respect Jokic would outclass Shaq. Love Shaq, but he can't shoot. Please be nice to me 😉
@@basengelblik5199 The only issue with that is jokic's defense isn't good enough to stop shaq at all so shaq would probably outclass because of this. A key reason Hakeen was better than shq and beat him head to head was because he was able to get key stops as the greatest defender of all time in addition to also being a top tier offensive center.
@@IknowMoreThanYou Jokic ain't guarding Shaq, but if the Nuggets had 2 bodybuilding 7 footers, who could foul Shaq 10 times, then maybe Joker would have a chance.
Jokic has the best touch for a big man in NBA history. You can't teach touch, that's talent. Also he is incredibly smart as well, intelligence is talent can't teach that either. He is able to stay calm and even keeled, again you cannot teach that, that's talent.
@@ralx225bJokic is born to play basketball it’s like God didn’t want him to unleash his athletic ability because if he ever had bounce an ounce of athleticism along to help his defence may the Lord have mercy on the NBA it’ll be DOMINANCE
I've been an avid basketball fan for almost half a century now. I watched Charles Barkley playing against Yugoslavia in 1983 and I loved him ever since. He was a phenomenal player despite being a bit chubby and so is Jokic. Nikola is such an extraordinary player, insanely talented and unique. He is breaking so many records in the NBA and literally changing the game of basketball with his style of playing.
He's got a legit claim for the #6 slot in the all time Centers ranking. Only the legendary 5 (Kareem, Wilt, Bill Russel, Shaq, & Hakeem) are untouchable. He's already at the table with Moses, David Robinson, & Patrick Ewing etc and by the time his career is over, he will very likely surpass these guys.
they are not untouchable .. we still gonna see 5+ years of prime jokic .. if he can get few title, and another MVP, we will talk about him in the top 5.
They say Harden is a top 10 guard bc of his triple double numbers and ability to fill up the stat sheet but we slight Jokic for the same thing because of his position
@@dylan4098 yeah but you are taking talent in terms of everyday vs sports. Sports usually has talent ie in terms of innate ability physical or what not, whereas jokic is perhaps not that gifted in terms of physical ability like jump or runoff but he has a complete package
@@mastermind401 and @dylan4098 a simple question if you are a GM which contract is dangerous the max one for westbrook or the max of jokic... Remember both have not won a championship and westbrook has reached a finals where as jokic has not.... Both of you are not realizing this but the upcoming CBA will cause a great deal of uproar among players because rookie extensions for players of lower performing teams are based on their numbers Nd even highlights.. I mean after next year would u give a max contract to jalen Green, josh giddy, obi toppin, bol bol, because these players use stats, highlights and even all star event appearances to dictate their contract terms... Of all the super max contracts offered how many have resulted in a championship?
@@dylan4098 wow dude jumping 48 fuccin inches is a talent it’s a talent 99 percent of us don’t have. Just like joker do you not think bing 6’11 and nearly 280 fuccin pounds doesn’t matter??? With that height he sees over people with that weight they can’t get around him.. you can’t have it both ways. Everyone knows joker is great ok. These old ass dinosaurs like Chuck and Kenny and Shaq they know Joker is great man it’s gonna take some time for him to get in the back room and smoke the stogie with the old guys. That’s all joker has to put in some more time become a veteran a body of work. Give him time these guys may come off as it’s because he’s a white guy but it’s not like that they’re old and being old that’s how they are everyone who they played with to them are the goats and these kids now are just that young whippersnappers no need to get racial bro. Sorry if I went off a bit but I like to talk ball no need to bring race stuff into it.
@@nassorkShaq played with Kobe a top 10 player ever and Wade a top 25 player ever who are superstars to win rings. I know Shaq was dominant as a scorer and rebounder and all but Jokic is also dominant as an ALL AROUND OFFENSIVE TALENT if you not only include scoring and rebounding but also ASSISTS/PLAYMAKING. Jokic has more talent if you also include basketball IQ and shooting from every area of the floor and Jokic is more efficient than Shaq despite Jokic taking way more midrange and 3 point shots and even in paint Jokic is more efficient than Shaq. It’s not even a debate who’s more versatile on offence. This is similar to Giannis vs Jokic where Giannis is like Shaq but with slightly better playmaking and better overall defence while Jokic has literally no weakness on offence but weaker defence but Jokic is top 15 in defensive rating and win shares and steals so he’s definitely above average on defence
If he continues to play on this past 2 years level the next 5 years, he will definately be top 3-5 on the end of his career. He is only 27, most NBA legends played/are playing till late 30ies so has time and space to reach greatness, if he stays healthy and keep working of course.
the Nuggets healthy were always the second biggest threat to the west. that Jokic MVP last year was deserved, regardless of what Embiid did. and he might be a candidate once again
@@Cloudcity20 triple doubles ain't no requirement and/or indication for someone to have a better season than the other one lmao. Why didn't Big O won so much MVP back then when he was pretty much the only one who makes such a stat a routine for him if your logic applies? @.@
@@dylan4098 Learn some logic pls.. First of all, I've never said that it should be given to a scoring leader in my entire writing. I was simply denouncing his premise that Jokic deserved both MVPs bcos he got more triple-doubles than Embiid. Hope that is clear now. Second of all, getting an MVP is the result of several factors. There's personal stats, there's team record, there's team's discrepancy when a player plays vs when he's not (or maybe a player's on/off minutes net ratings impact for their team), there's the gap of how a team fares before a certain guy comes into a franchise and how after that player comes into that franchise that franchise instantly have a significantly-increased record (be a top echelon team). So there's that. I just think that in the totality Embiid got a really good season in the last 2, and arguably he should've won one of them. I feel like Jokic got too much credits for the advanced stats that a player like him could easily attracts for like PER which always favor a player who can easily get triple-doubles. Just saying
Jokic is the Larry Bird of big men in this generation with his court vision, shooting touch, playmaking, rebounding, and decision-making. They aren't particularly great one-on-one defenders but they make up for it with key deflections and help defense. Jokic is on his way to becoming just the 4th player in NBA history to win three straights regular season MVPs since Larry Bird did it in 1983-1986.
Just because he's a big man that doesn't inherently protect the rim and challenge shots up there doesn't make him a bad defender. His skill level is elite and he's more fundamentally sound than Tim Duncan. There, I said it.
This is what's great about America, people are allowed to share their opinions freely. Even terrible ones like saying Jokic is good at defense and more fundamentally sound than Duncan. That must be why Nuggets have one of the worst team defenses in the nba.
@@sleeponsundays2417Jokic isn’t an elite defender but he’s an above average one and Jokic isn’t surrounded with defensive specialists like Giannis and Embiid have. So context matters. Jokic isn’t as good as those guys on defence overall but he clearly doesn’t have the same defensive structure as curry with GSW Draymond and Wiggins and others. Jokic never even played with an all star and missed his 2nd best option for the last 1.5 years. Jokic clearly makes denver a top 10 defensive team based on defensive efficiency and top 3 offensive efficiency when he is on the floor however when Jokic is off the floor the nuggets are one of the worst defensive teams and ranked in the middle of the pack on offence efficiency. Man is clearly mvp
Better shooter than Tim and a vastly better passer. But Duncan the better defender and they're about equal as rebounders. Both rock solid with fundamentals.
I'm just thankful I'm witnessing his career. If he keeps those numbers up for 5-6 more seasons, and grabs a ring, it's undeniable he's the most impactful and best center ever. Just one ring is enough, we're talking about Nuggets...
@@nndayo6408 that isnt true. If you are an mvp you should at least win a title or get your team to the finals at least once. Even the centers that havent won a ring at least been the best player who went to a finals.
@@FloydWhoElseTV Give Joker some player like Kobe was or D Wade and he will win ring easy, Shaq was second best player on Lakers after Kobe and second best in Miami after D Wade. As fan of Sacramento from that time I was only afraid of Kobe, he was far more bigger treat then Shaq.
As a Nuggets fan, im one of the few that continues to harp on this ... we should have kept J.Grant over MPJ. Grant on this squad with KCP and Bruce Brown defensively ... I'm getting mad again I'll chill 😑
@coffeegaming8714 That's a myth that he wanted to be a #1 option, he has spoke on this himself, he wanted to be valued more then just a 3&D guy and he wanted someone to commit to him. Den wasn't going to make a long term commitment because they were going to pay MPJ a max, he knew that. They offered the exact same as Detroit 3/60 mil ... if they would have bumped that to AG type money his ass will still be a nugget.
@Mr. AAB what you mean?Denver offered him the exact same contract as Detroit did, and he left. A 4 year well paying deal. If that's not "valuing a guy" idk what is.
@LILCHEESE99 You have 2 companies that offer you the same money to work for them but one company has hired your replacement and put clauses in your contract to get off your money easily when your replacement is ready. Is that being valued?!
Jokic will be considered the next-gen Tim Duncan when all is said and done (even though he plays C and Duncan played PF). He’s such a good player that makes his team better. Maybe just one more young All-Star to connect with, and they could win 3-4/10 championships.
Think he just fumbled and had a brain fart, couldn't remember the term "situational awareness." But ya, Kenny is like one of those furby dolls with the fucked up voice box that just says random fragments of a sentence.
When Shaq says stuff like "Defense is overrated" It really shows that his basketball iq isn't nearly as high as the other greatest players of all time.
I hate to do this but he has 4 rings that matters when you say Shaq in China or Africa or Brazil they know what it means that matters. I don’t agree with the diesel on a lot but hey he’s a certified unquestionable hof’er I remember Shaq he was unstoppable they changed the Rim because of that guy. With all that being said he’s dead dam WRONG!! Defense matters. I don’t think questioning his iq is fair he’s a proven champion several times over we don’t do that with anyone else.
@@renderuntocaesarwhatiscaes2300 his 4th RING he averaged 14 ppg and was carried by d wade His other RINGS Kobe ran the triangle offense; not him. It's fine to question his iq
@@renderuntocaesarwhatiscaes2300 His entire game was built around being bigger and stronger than everyone else. Not smarter or more skilled. I'm not questioning his accomplishments or saying he shouldn't be in the hall of fame or whatever else. All Im saying is that he doesn't understand the game to the same level of other all time great players because he didn't need to. Shaq is unquestionably top 10 all time. But all 9 of the other players in the top 10 regardless of who you have up there have a higher basketball IQ than him. His comment about defense is just the latest in a long line of dumb comments about basketball that a verified legend shouldn't even be capable of making.
Shaq has always stressed the importance of timely defense. Getting stops when it matters. He has said this multiple times in the past. His preference is relentless offense over consistent defense. And so long as you can get stops late in the game, it doesn't matter if you defend well overall. He has points, its not a totally invalid opinion.
Jokic is gone be 10 all-time big man no questions. Once he's career is done. I'm just scared if he doesn't get a chip. They gone disrespect him like the done C Webb hall of Fame... Top 10 career for power forward!!!!
Jokic is underrated defender. He reads defense well. Having 1-2 blocks more in your statline is an overrated measurement of defense. He's according to the defensive win shares in upper 20% of the league, above guys like KD, Steph, DeRozan, CP3. You never hear people using defens to deminish their greatness. And it's harder being top 10-20 defender in the league when whole team sucks on defense.
Jokic is a Point Center. It’s different from the traditional Center. The Point Center evolved in the modern game because of the various changes to how it’s being played over the past 2 decades. You can argue Kareem, Shaq and Hakeem, while may be great centers, may not even be in a championship winning team against the current crop of champions like GSW. Jokic is the best of a brand new breed of position in basketball.
Jokers last 2 seasons and the current season will put him in top 10 big men if he can maintain this level. He's only 27 and still improving. He easily has another 5yrs to be in this level of prime.
People don't remember the player by their defence. Offense always shines over defence when a player retires. You remember Shaq because he was dunking on over people. You don't remember Shaq for his dominate defence.
@@kennynguyen5248 I remember his( MVP/first ring) year mostly for his dominant defence. That was by far, his greatest year. He would be everywhere blocking everything in sight.
@@kennynguyen5248 you are missing the point. in the playoffs, all teams have good offense. they are all good. it's the defense that separates the good teams apart from each other. "remembering" players has nothing to do with it.
Jokic is just one assist behind Vlade Divac and 23 behind Pete Maravic. He'll become the best Serbian passer in the history of the NBA very soon. Legend!
The only big men I put over him on the more modern setting 80s and on is Hakeem and Shaq. One ring changes that. Hakeem is a top 5 player of all time imo over any other big.
In respond to kenny about other players like hakeem dominate the game with their defense, well jokic dominates the game with his passing. And joker is not bad on defense as other people says as bout him.
to be on that level jokic needs some epic playof runs. cant really be in a conversation with hakeem and shaq if you never played nba finals. this is not just up to him, but it is what it is (whispering: trade murray and porter jr. )
Any intelligent gm if asked to start a team with any player in the world would choose Jokic. A few may look hard at Antetokoumpo which isn't a bad choice either. But Jokic does it all and makes everyone around him better. Much better.
When you take a step back and look at the Nuggets Roster, with Jamal not yet back at his 100% and MPJ barely playing, how crazy it is that the Nuggets are the 1st seed in the Wester conference !?
