Iraq: The Legacy 

The fact that these two have continued to work together for a long time after this conversation took place is testament to their characters. No matter where you sit on this debate, its a joy to see two people act like grown ups - in a world that is fragmented, populist focussed, and obsessed with the view of the general public. Bravo.

Former French president Jacques Chirac warned that this unjustified military invasion of Iraq would have disastrous consequences for the region and the world, 2 decades later we are still dealing with the repercussions terror, hatred, resentment and violence. This is the legacy of the bush - Blair era. I thank Rory very much for his impartial and truthful analysis, I find it hard to believe that Mr Campbell is still in denial even after 2 decades of this unmitigated catastrophe. Some people can’t handle the truth

You cant say this podcast doesn't do tough conversations. I have a lot of respect for Alistair Campbell here, purely for the fact its the one conversation you'd expect them to avoid. They confront it head on for nearly two hours, and there is a lot to be said for that alone.

Rory is a wonderful friend here to Alastair.

I have been waiting for this difficult conversation for some time and it was worth the wait. Kudos to you both for facing it square on.

The complete lack of contrition or any admission from Alistair Campbell that he got it horribly wrong is depressing and disappointing but in no way surprising.

AC is not picking up the point Rory is trying to repeatedly make about the depth of cultural and geopolitical misunderstanding about the region and the impact of their decision-making.

One of the reasons why Campbell was such an effective member of Blair's team is that he seems to genuinely 100% believe his own spin; the spin that helped to legitimise Blair's bs. And he hasn't changed. He can't. I don't think there are many people that could comprehend and accept the consequences of their own actions when they are so impactful and significant and wrong.

I can clearly remember Helen Clark saying she had seen the same intelligence, due to 5 eyes and in what you have to admit took some courage kept NZ out of Iraq. She saw the same info but drew the correct conclusion. You should interview Helen Clark and ask her how she got it right.

'Part of the case for war' - what utter and unmitigated horseshit. The case for war made to the British people was that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction that could hit us within 45 minutes and that they were prepared to do so, necessitating a pre-emptive strike. We lived through those times and we remember. Going back to the question 'Do you understand why people are still angry about the war?' - have you ever considered that a major part of it is decades of post-hoc justifications and gaslighting the public, trying to say that this was not the case being made for the war? We will go to our graves angry about it if this is not engaged with honestly.

Really fascinating. Just one thing not discussed. I was a Blairite at the time and supported the build up to the Iraq invasion to force Iraq's compliance with UN resolutions, until the very moment our troops crossed the border. Just before, with US and UK build up on the border, everyone's forgotten that Sadam did fully capitulate and agreed to all demands to allow full inspections. I thought, naively, wow its worked! No need for war now. But we still invaded anyway, to my horror, and at that moment my support stopped as i realised it was not about WMDs at all but about a desire for war itself.

I enjoy the rest is politics, but I am so angry about the Iraq war that sometimes I find it hard to listen to Alistair. I was one of the million that went to the protest against the Iraq war in London and was devastated when we went ahead with the war. Hundreds of thousands died. I look forward to listening to this, but it may be the end of me listening to this podcast.

The desire to find WMD cost Dr David Kelly his life, whether by suicide or MI6/MI5 sculduggery. Before that, he was called a middle brow academic by a press stooge of the government, instead of an expert in his field, which he was. That was what sickened the public once they had time to consider all the ramifications. It was and looked forced.

Cambell is still in denial. Maybe for someone suffering from depression it is hard for him to face the terrible terrible mistake he made.

This episode highlights why I respect Rory much more than Alastair even though I'm on the left politically.

My loathing for the majority of British politicians started with Blair and Campbell. They took our country in to war on a lie. That's the worst betrayal I can imagine.

Thank you Rory for reiterating the facts to Alistar, and having the moral compass to admit when you’re wrong and when you’re right, even when it doesn’t reflect well on you.

Appreciate this, the misinformation on this is rampant, the historical record as always is much much more complex

RIP Dr. David Kelly

Rory comes out of this conversation as an honest man and a superior intellect. Campbell is still living in the Bliar Bubble.

I'd encourage everyone watching this video to do their own research and not let AC and others try and obfuscate the facts by saying "well at that moment in time..." AC was Blair's professional spin doctor and he will never stop spinning tales on Iraq. It's all he knows.

I find it absolutely amazing that you bring up Sadam Husain's record when he was supported by the West throughout the 1980s when he was fighting Iran and gassing his own people !! Not to mention the fact that the UK was trying to sell him a 'super gun' (having already supplied his regime with weapons) on the eve of the fiest Gulf War. But to listen to Alistair butter woildnt melt. It is this fundamental lack of honesty that makes people ro angry about this to this day.

"Constantly defied the UN and got away with it" - Alasdair Campbell is talking about Israel, right?

This podcast, one of your finest and most earnest exchanges, is a testament to your commitment to learning and growth. Your ability to disagree agreeably, share honest recollections, and offer stern rebuttals while always being willing to then consider each other’s experiences is truly inspiring. We have all learnt from the light of experience in the case of this war, and its legacy will preoccupy our universal consciousness. To you both, your integrity has not only survived beyond this war but has also contributed to our collective learning. With its insightful discussions, your podcast continues to be a valuable source of learning for all. Well done, guys.

I love this podcast, but I just can’t listen to it anymore and support Alastair. He’s pathetic and makes zero attempt to admit any mistake. You, Blair and bush and the rest should be in prison. It’s outrageous Alastair cosplays as a timid mental health advocate, I wonder how many thousands of Iraqi have PTSD as a result of his and his awful friend’s blood thirsty policy.

Still running defence for war crimes

I don't know why he can't just say he was wrong

Reading the comments is unbelievable. You would assume everyone watching this podcast is a fan of these two men, but I can’t see a single person supporting Alistair

Rory saying he doesn't want to be fair to the intelligence services because they "fucked up bigly" is excellent and more discourse should be like this.

Sadly the politicians/people who pushed for this war and made it a reality will not get prosecuted.

The destruction of an entire people is truly devastating. Many fail to grasp the complexities of power in the Middle East. A Syrian friend of mine, now a refugee in Australia, believes the region isn’t ready for democracy due to the influence of extremist groups within Islam, which we saw firsthand in Syria. For now, secular dictatorships seem to provide the most stability. While democracy could be possible in the future, the region simply isn’t ready yet. Many Iraqis have even said that life was better under Saddam, with stability, no hyperinflation, reliable access to basic services like water and without US companies exploiting their resources. Unfortunately, this important context is often ignored in favour of a Western-centric perspective. Stop being so naive, Alistair. Iraq was an easy target for the US after 9/11-to appear in control, sell weapons, allow US-backed companies to dominate key Iraqi industries and strengthen their regional influence. I believe Blair knew this, kissed the emperor’s ring, and you Alistair, played a key role in selling it to the British public. Your denial and defense of Blair, (a war criminal), is pathetic.

Even Eliza Manningham-Buller, MI5,said on this podcast that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

I get why Rory feels like he does about the catastrophe that unfolded after the successful toppling of the Iraqi government. I’m happy to accept Alastair’s account, unlike many others, but what I find so difficult to understand is why were the Americans and the Brits so naive over the natural anger and resentment of the Shia having been so brutally repressed for so long. The consequences of not grasping that most obvious of outcomes is where I condemn both Tony Blair and George Bush. The results speak for themselves in the internecine fighting between Sunni and Shia, the destruction of the ancient Christian community and the persecution of all the other religious communities in Iraq. It seems to me a no brainer that Shia Iran was bound to jump in and cause chaos and quite honestly you wouldn’t have had to be a savant to imagine that resulting in a group like ISIS. This isn’t 20 20 vision; this is simply a basic understanding of history. In a way, you can understand the Americans being dumb….but Blair should have given thought to the consequences…..when you knock the lid off a powder keg you first game-plan how to manage the after effects. Having said all that you can understand the effect on the American psyche of having highjacked planes full of passengers being flown into office blocks in New York and the Pentagon. Just imagine the trauma if that had happened in London or Birmingham or Edinburgh.

We’re angry because you and Tony aren’t in prison…

As a psychologist, I remember thinking that Saddam's ego motivated him to act as if he had WMD when he did not. It was so counter intuitive that the possibility not a bluff was taking place could not be risked. Thank you for your thoughtful discussion.

What really matters is the state of Iraq now. That's the legacy of this awful affair you can't get around it.

Campbell gets angry at the criticism of the 'Intelligence ' people (who were under pressure to tell Blair what he wanted to hear) His complete lack of remorse is shameful,he has no right to be angry.What about the real, deep, visceral anger of the parents of these young soldiers slaughtered needlessly .

"Hindsight". 130 Labour MPs knew your justification for war was nonsense. Robin Cook knew it was nonsense. 2 million people marching on the streets of London knew it was nonsense. You must have known it was nonsense yourself. So, why did you do it? TELL THE TRUTH.

To talk about the Iraq war and not mention the power of the war industry lobby is an absurd. The American vice president Dick Cheney was a war industry lobbyist.

am I the only person screaming at my screen as Alistair speaks ??? "

I grew up hating Tony and new Labour over the war. This was more my parents than my own view. Now as an adult I can empathise with the incredibly hard positions you both found yourselves in. I hear a little of Hitchens in Alistairs comments, I suspect the crime here is that we let Saddam go on for as long as he did. I did security work with an Afghani chap not too long ago, which helped put the horrors of these conflicts into perspective for me. Thank you both for your efforts

Campbell's demeanour when the topic gets near to "the dossier" tells you everything you need to know.

Thank you once again Alistair and Rory for this deep dive. This long format discussion is such an impressive example of why your podcast is so globally respected by every day people. Your close personal insights expand on this moment in history as an afterword not only for Great Britain but also the other allies of the west from that time; for myself as an Australian watching this all unfold in my early 20s is almost cathartic to help compartmentalize my country’s role in this war as well. Specifically with regards to Richard Butler who was chairman of UNSCOM and who was literally an Australian household name during the lead up to the invasion of Iraq due to his major role in “identifying” WMDs in Iraq at that time. Thank you for both opening up on your own personal perspectives and challenging each other on this incredibly controversial moment in modern history to help everyday laymen potentially come to either some kind of solace or at least have clarity that was never offered through traditional media at the time. Profound stuff.

AC and TB belong in the Hague next to Netenyahu. UK intelligence did not claim Iraq had WMD the US told them what to say

I can understand people saying they didn't believe the WMD existed and that they objected to the use of any military forces, but I'm baffled that any civilian would state that they _knew_ the WMD reports were wrong or deceptive at the time.

Cheney's commercial interests during the Iraq War were primarily tied to Halliburton, where he had been CEO before becoming Vice President. The contracts awarded to Halliburton, especially the no-bid ones, were seen by many as a direct line of benefit from his previous corporate role to the financial outcomes of the war, raising questions about the influence of commercial interests on foreign policy decisions. Grok

The 45 minute thing was so crazy, it was pushed very hard by Blair a complete joke

Blair looks a broken man but Campbell's still sticking to his story......

Campbell's responses to the questions are pure special pleading. Basically, they bolloxed it up and hid behind the skirts of Uncle Sam. It's that simple.

a total unmitigated disaster, huge loss of innocent life, and service men and women. The ramifications of the intervention live with us today with a more polarised world, and reduced UN.

Hans Blix the weapons inspector said diplomacy and inspections should be given more time to succeed. Why was there such a rush to invade?

Alastair is completely devoid of humility and contrition - entirely shameless and morally bankrupt

You lied Alastair, and people died there's not much more you can say to it other than if this country had accountability you would be in a jail cell.

Hundreds of thousands of innocents dead, Al Qaeda running riot later ISIS , families destroyed,whole population terrorized, Iraq left destabilized and under Iranian influence in most parts . Iraqis fleeing as refugees bringing with them hatred for what we did in their country . All these and it’s just a regrettable mistake and for the perpetrators of those crimes no consequences whatsoever.

I was very reluctant to watch TRIP because of Campbell/Iraq. I still think that Iraq is the biggest disaster/catalyst for the disintegration of the middle east, British standing, political trust, world order, and Isis etc. My skin crawls whenever AC tries to weasel out, and makes me want to quit the pod, I'm thankful for Rory at least putting the case forward with authority/knowledge/conviction, especially considering even Rory's position could have labelled you an unpatriotic loon a couple decades ago, and at least we are beginning to have this conversation. I have very little sympathy for AC, but I can see/imagine the psychological defense mechanisms he must have put up to justify to himself what he did (though I have absolutely zero time for Blair).

As a 28 year old, the endless nuances of the politics and paranoia prior to the Iraq war are still a confusing mystery to me (no matter how much I read about it). That said, I did feel Alastair's sincerity, and Rory did really make good points, especially with regards to the intelligence services' failings. I don't think the real problem was the fact we went to war in Iraq. I think deposing Sadam Hussein was a worthy goal. I think the problem is that we did it badly. There was such poor planning for post invasion Iraq that we ended up with a nebulous, unclear mission leading to the unwinnable forever war...

Mr Campbell is unbearable. A generous interpretation of Campbells utterances here would be that the war was justifiable on the basis that it was strategic because of Saddam's long-term ambition to have WMDs, and further how evil Saddam was and his track record of using chemical weapons. That may well be true. However, that was not the message we, the public got. We were told Iraq represented an imminent danger to the UK and the West. And in my opinion they knew they could not get the support from the public based upon the long-term argument alone, so they ‘upped’ the part of their assessment that referred to the imminent threat to make it centre stage. IMO they mislead us at best. You can also accuse them, Campbell and Blair, of being utterly incompetent in making key assessments, about many things such as the ‘need’ for the sake of the special relationship to go to war alongside the US, not assuring themselves that there was an adequate post invasion plan, and the bullshit about creating a domino effect of a functioning democracy in the Middle East, and not asking the hard questions about the security assessments, and failing to realize that Iran would be the big winner of the conflict The story of how the attorney general came to change his mind is utterly unconvincing. The AG had, for sure, seen all details of all resolutions before he rendered his first opinion. There is no way he found out about the prior resolutions and /or newly understood that the case could be made that no new resolution was needed during a trip to the US. FFS. A top lawyer making one of the most difficult and important decisions since 1956. He’d read everything on the topic, and I mean everything. Top to bottom. A whole team of advisers doing research for him on each resolution etc etc . All giving him input. The AG knew every angle and argument. AC and TB are both very clever men, and they know, and knew, how to manipulate things. I should image it’s hard to get that high in government without those skills. But they were absolute masters of their trade. IMO he and Blair made their mind up and lent on the AG to change his opinion. In my opinion Campbell is a war criminal. and he knew that the best analysis was that the war was illegal and a new explicit UN resolution was required. His defence that we don’t know the counter factual is of course logically correct but that argument can be used to justify absolutely anything. On that basis you can say how do we know the world would not have been better had we not had ……..(insert your genocide of choice…) ? His and Blair’s decisions were utterly utterly appalling. Both in terms of their judgements strategically and morally. IMO war criminals the pair and the whole episode is a stain on Britain. It makes me wonder why anybody would give credence to what this man says on any topic given the glasses he wears don’t avail him of the truth on this topic. He is, IMO, an out and out liar, and a master of the half truth. Sadly, many lies have been lost in consequence of this war and much damage to the function of the UN and Western interests.

Two lads I went to school with died in your war alistair. And though my friendships and acquaintances span Reform and non-political working class people and London living metropolitans who moved to the city what we all have in common is we think it was a pointless and sickening war that has only brought miser. The knock on effects in terms of terrorism, mass migration and ethno religious resentments are too great to contemplate. I don’t care what your role is you had a duty to oppose such a foolish intervention in a land you didn’t understand. I can forgive my contemporaries who picked up weapons thinking they were doing good or furthering their career in the military. They were barely adults. You should join a monastery or something. Counterfactual history can be used to defend almost any position

R.I.P. Dr David Kelly x

23:50 "For Tony right to the very end he was motivated that this should not go to war". My God he's really convinced himself to believe that.

I was in elementary school when 9/11 happened, and now that I’m a lot more politically aware, it’s absolutely fascinating to hear about the thought process about the response to that event. I appreciate your openness and candor about it. Thank you.

I was anti war and went on the march. My views on Alistair have softened through listening to this podcast week after week. I feel now not persuaded of the case for the war but much more sympathetic to the position of those who made the decision to go. I also think I have a better understanding of the complexity of the choice as a result of listening to this. The best laid plans of mice and men .....

How Campbell has the bare faced cheek to defend his actions is beyond me. He and Blair should never be allowed to forget the carnage they caused. How many British soldiers died for nothing?

The US says jump, we ask how high, it's been that way for 70+ years now, so there was no need to tie yourself in knots pretending you had a choice...

"You can't prove a counter-factual" -Alastair Campbell "Let me just give you a counter-factual" -Alastair Campbell The man is just tying himself in knots, because there is no honest way of coming out of this conversation appearing moral.

Iraq was my generations Vietnam. I will never forgive you Alastair You are responsible for millons of deaths.

I almost feel some sympathy for Alastair Campbell over Iraq. He has to reconcile two opposing beliefs in his head at the same time, but can only openly admit to one of them. It was always obvious that the US had decided that they were going into Iraq soon after 9/11. The UK due it its "special relationship" was almost obliged to support the US in this endeavour due to geopolitical reasons, so Blair had little choice but to support the US in the "coalition of the willing" in order to keep that relationship intact as it was going to happen even if he opposed it. Hindsight's a wonderful thing but the UK was placed in an almost impossible position. I don't think this is quite comparable to Wilson and Vietnam, as was suggested in the podcast. Our military was much more powerful and independent then.

I can’t imagine I’d ever feel peace in my heart for the rest of my life if I played the role Alastair did in a (wholly pointless) war that killed a million Iraqi’s. Frankly, I’d never show my face in public again

A lot of stuff Rory says is bang on correct. The group think and the politicking was a huge factor.

The Rest is Politics is an excellent podcast. I have to say however that I have little respect for Alistair Campbell due to his sycophantic support for Tony Blair and his determination to paper over their disastrous actions over Iraq. That major tragedy has fuelled the war and terrorism that we have witnessed ever since. The US rightfully did not support us over Suez and we should not have supported the US over Iraq. This disaster was foreseen. Even Kofi Annan considered this to be an illegal war.

I am grateful for this conversation. It was a brave thing to do, and there are obvious differences of opinion between you, but I love the dynamic of the podcast as you deal with them. It's an invitation to all the haters to fill the thread with insults and well rehearsed one liners, but I hope there will be many who will have appreciated your insights and memories of your experience of those tragic events as insiders. Historians have got their work cut out to unravel the issues for decades to come. I feel more enlightened. Thank you.

It is very odd that this conversation happens without focusing on the fact that America was going to invade regardless of UK participation. The only ethical case for Britain’s involvement is that it could improve things, at the margin. There’s no real discussion of this. Manning’s remark is very revealing of UK diplomatic ambition.

Tony Blair's biggest issue was and is that he has enormous belief in his own expertise. Even when he has a very limited experience. Even after this enormous cluster... he ended up as some kind of special consultant for the middle east. When it comes down to it, Blair was and is a western democracy hawk. He's still making the same expertise errors around Israel now.

Alastair C is still in denial it seems.

Alistair still lying about it all.

Rory nailed it with why didn't you question the intelligence officers about how reliable their sources were. For me, you didn't because you didn't care you just wanted to join the USA in their war.

Tremendous respect for Alastair's willingness to wrestle with this historic turning-point and his role in it. Likewise, great respect to Rory for a probing, yet compassionate, inquiry. Many commenters, having received their History training in the modern classroom, will content themselves with passing judgement on the British and American leaders of the time. There's nothing so comforting as the moral superiority that comes with hindsight. But serious students of History have, since Thucydides, understood that the greatest value of their subject is to learn from the experience of imperfect leaders of the past - and to apply those lessons to new, equally difficult, challenges in new times. For that latter purpose, this sort of deep inquiry is invaluable. I was opposed to the Iraq War at the time, and I have not changed my mind about that. But I was delighted to understand more about how decent men and women, with the best of intentions, stumbled into a disaster.

I understand AC gets attacked a lot over Iraq which is likely why he is so defensive. The main thing that appears to grind people's gears is that WITH hindsight neither Tony or AC appear to have any remorse for the mess they were part of and they still insist on the idea that on balance they made the right call. There is also a problem that AC highlights all the evidence and intelligence that was coming across Tony's desk, I get it but why can't he admit he was mislead? AC insists that part of the main reason they went to war was Saddam's record etc. That was not the argument that was made to the public. There was an impression that they made their decision and then set the media machine to work in convincing the public to be on side with the bullshit report. I remember seeing pictures in the Daily Mail of Saddam's nuclear weapons bunkers in the desert and how he could launch WMD at any moment. It was all garbage and regardless of blame, its infuriating to hear AC/Tony not accept we went to war on false pretense. It's so important as it is a defining moment of my later teenage years and for many millennials is a trigger point for the utter distrust and lack of faith in modern government. Exactly like with Covid, we have to ask the question, is it ok to mislead the public to get them to support an end goal that might be correct? There is a very real boy called wolf situation and after a time people will not respond in the way you expect.

You can't lay the whole war on the shoulders of one man.

Huge respect to Rory on how he navigated this one.

The brass neck of Alistair. Rory handled this well Alistair ready to explode as usual.

Quite brave of alistair to agree to this no matter what you feel about the decisions he has made.

Robin Cook’s resignation speech was the highwater mark of British politics. Respectfully resigned, made a key point on WMD which as he was in cabinet undermines the post invasion wmd spin.

When I tell people I watch the Rest Is Politics with Alistair Campbell they often react with “that monster?” and at first I didn’t fully get it. After watching this episode however, I now do. You do get a sense that he thinks he can brutishly plow through his own interpretation of events: “the intelligence we were given was at fault”…but then later “I do think we should go lightly on the head of MI6 at the time” (paraphrase)… or the fact he admits “how difficult it was to gather information at the time” but then how they nevertheless decided to commit the lives of thousands of service(wo)men and Iraqi citizens on said intelligence. All this mixed with his unearned air of irritability and abrasiveness about being asked why and how he screwed up makes for a pretty tough watch. Imagine working for this man as an intern when you know he’s wrong on something and needing to inform/convince him of it when he thinks he’s right - ask yourself, how would this man react? This vid gives a pretty good idea. Kudos to Rory for asking some great questions though. In the end it’s all just very tragic. A declining country holding on (under hubristic leadership) for foreign policy relevancy at the behest of a few very dubious individuals pulling the strings in US politics (whom Alistair also seems to go lightly on btw…)

Watching Alistair here as a reminder that I should not believe anything from no one, no matter how reasonable they sound, for they might be up to actively participate of the mass murder of hundreds of thousands and twenty years later still be unapologetic about it. Wonder what goes on in that head; how is it possible that someone seemingly smart and honest on so many issues can however be so wrong on something so basic. Or whether he's actually not honest at all in anything.

I love how Rory sits there grinning whilst Alistair is getting quite worked up 😂 Well handled by both, clearly a lot of passion from Alistair and Rory did a perfect job of grilling him without going too far. This is the kind of transparency into politics that the British public deserve.

Mistakes were made, everyone did their best and no one is to blame. - A.Campbell

Alistair is still living in his bubble, let's not forget that the Iraqi war on Iran was supported by the west and the golf countries. So when you talk about what happened there out of context you make it seem like he was commanding a rogue state all along but you omit to mention that his actions until the invasion of Kuwait was supported by the west. It is intellectually dishonest to put things that way especially 20 years after the disaster, you knew if not fully partially what would happen, everyone in the Arab world knew that it would be this disastrous even our useless leaders knew. It is and was all about petroleum and exerting control over the world. BE HONEST.

A fascinating and very important piece to put out. Voices from behind the curtain and from on the ground at the time. Very nicely done. I love a good honourable debate aswell! Thank you guys!

Thank you so much for this episode. Fascinating. I was and still am against the Iraq war. I appreciate your openness in this episode and respect Alistair. I understand the dilemma the prime minister must've been in. Now, I feel a lot of the terrorist threats we have are a result of this war. Who are we in the west to push our 'democratic' methods on other cultures. We in the west have a lot to answer for, why we always have to follow the US is beyond me. There were war crimes committed that have not been brought to trial. Double standards. Rory, I can't imagine how difficult it would've been to be plonked into southern Iraq at this time. I admire how much respect you have for other cultures.

Big fan of the podcast but I sometimes wonder if the real purpose of this podcast is to vindicate Tony and Alistair and cement their legacies in the history books by downplaying just how badly the government broke the trust of the electorate on this one. It's telling when you hear the case put forward here in this video is that same one that government completely switched to after they discovered that there was actually no threat and just had to go along with the American's war anyway because it suited their own internal politics. In one of the earlier podcast's Alistair described the UK's foreign policy as basically in step with the American's foreign policy. What I really wish Tony and Alistair admitted is the truth that they knew they shouldn't have gone along with that terrible, illegal war but they did so anyway to preserve that oh so "Special Relationship".

'Failure' in iraq and Afghanistan is one of the causes of the present the Age of Non-intervention. Reviewing and reevaluating those times will help give us the resolve to tackle Russian and Chinese aggression. Failure now could lead to one of the greatest reversals in recorded human history.

The idea that we should forcefully impose democracy on the world is a big issue

A good open conversation. Though I do take Rory's side completely and also think there is a bit of indifference being shown by Alistair towards the countless Iraqi lives that were lost

Conveniently, you forget to mention that the United States was backing Iraq against their insurgency into Iran, and historically prior to that the US back Iran restring Iraq. But it’s OK if the British had wanted Iraq for oil, we wouldn’t be in this place in the first place. And I don’t mean during the 90s when this happened I mean after the second World War™

I was living and working in the UK in 2003 (just finished my degree in South Africa) and was absolutely horrified at the support for invading Iraq. In February 2003, I went to Amsterdam to get away from the British propaganda in support of invading Iraq (putting tanks around Heathrow). Met an Israeli, came to visit Israel in March 2003, and was out of Tel Aviv on the last flight back to the UK with the airspace being closed. I landed in London and went to my friend, only to watch the live broadcasting of the bombing of Baghdad. Until today I am disgusted by Balairs handling of the invasion of Iraq. It was my first lesson in how f*cked government can be.

I'm from Turkiye and Middle East affairs interest me much. Listened with amazement at the elegance and the tact RS showed to AC. I could not have. I have always hated Blair and the lot for the massive muck-up. What really stuns me is the fact that AC can be out and about, walking, 'swimming' at his local pool, co-presenting a podcast, living a normal life. Is it possible to have a normal life after being even the tiniest part of such a disaster that caused the deaths of so many innocent people? How can you? How is it possible? Wow!

Thank you for doing this episode. It can't have been easy on a personal level. You are both stand up people and a testament on how to be polite and discuss this with courtesy and civility. Thank you again both of you.

Alastair goes on about how they thought Saddam was developing chemical weapons and were actively using them conveniently leaves out the fact the US and UK backed the Iraqis against Iran in the 80s and yeah they knew he had chemical weapons because they helped him get and use them…

Rory is definitely right. The intelligence was terrible and used in a calculated and misleading manner. Most would be evaluated as X4 or D4, unreliable source and uncorroborated information not known personally to them. Shocking that the intelligence professionals let that go into a dossier without massive caveats. And shocking that they didn't have any consequences. It seems that most of the people involved for carried away with the moment and confirming what the boss wants to hear. Relying on Tony Blairs 'view' and 'belief' doesn't make it any more reliable or trustworthy. I agree he had already decided and was seeking only a way forward to war, which then orchestrated the machinery confirm his thoughts and need to start a false war.