Is Beauty Privilege Real?

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Why do women post sexy selfies? And why does this behaviour anger some people?
Claire Lehmann and Zoe Booth discuss the complex world of intrasexual female competition and their experiences with it, concluding that the more we know about human behaviour, the more empowered we are to make good decisions.
"Slut shaming" can also be referred to as sexual shaming, sexual bullying, sexual stigmatization, or promiscuity shaming. It refers to the practice of criticizing or mocking someone, usually a woman, for their real or presumed sexual behavior, including for dressing in a sexual manner, having premarital, casual, or promiscuous sex, or for behaving in ways that deviate from traditional or socially accepted gender expectations.
"Thirst trapping" is a term that originated in online and social media culture. It refers to the act of posting provocative or tantalizing images or messages on social media platforms to attract attention, particularly of a sexual or romantic nature. The intention behind a "thirst trap" is to elicit compliments, admiration, or even expressions of desire, often called "thirst," from others. While it's commonly associated with photos that emphasize physical attractiveness, a thirst trap can also be a post that highlights other desirable qualities or achievements to gain attention or admiration.
00:00 Intro
02:15 Beauty privilege
06:00 Meghan Murphy's tweet
08:55 Claire's experience with shaming
12:47 Roy Baumeister and Kathleen Vohs' Theory of Sexual Economics
17:30 Female vs male bullying
19:00 Signalling
27:00 Objectification and Exhibitionism
28:00 The male gaze
30:45 Is female sexuality autogynephilic?
33:00 Knowledge is power
35:00 Politicising sexual behaviour
#socialmedia #psychology #gender #beauty #woman
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Quillette is an Australian-based but internationally-focused online magazine that specialises in long-form analysis and cultural commentary. We are politically non-partisan, but rely on reason, science, and humanism as our guiding values. Contributors include Steven Pinker, Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Francis Fukuyama, Camille Paglia, and Jordan Peterson.
Quillette was founded by Claire Lehmann in 2015, and incorporated in 2018 in Sydney, Australia. The Quillette team regularly throws parties for its subscribers all around the world. These parties are called Quillette Socials, and they're a chance for our community to come together, network, and have fun.

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8 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 90

@jumblyman Год назад

Congratulations for “going there”, especially from two attractive women. One thing I think women wildly under appreciate is just how intoxicating beauty is to men. Men see in even a moderately attractive woman the equivalent of what women might see in only movie star level handsome men. Women who begin transition by taking testosterone talk about how their brain becomes suffused with desire. And if you want to understand the raw biological differences between males and females simply look at gay sexual culture vs lesbian sexual culture. An ordinary gay man has access to sex at a level only attainable to heterosexual men of very high status. This explains a lot of the incel mindset: the desire and hate for women for the power they have over them.

@LionKimbro 10 месяцев назад

I visited Japan with a bisexual friend. I had 1 date, that fizzled, and went nowhere. He had sex with 17 men, including two threesomes. Eye opening, to be sure. Nary a complaint of "sexual objectification." And I came to the realization: "All men are gay men; We're just exclusively attracted to women. And the women control the game, and even our minds."

@skreeeboy Год назад

A few years ago, my brother's computer stopped working, and so he borrowed my 70-something mother's laptop for a week. When she got it back, she noticed that his browsing history included visits to porn sites. She was upset about this and I could tell she completely did not understand how sex affects the minds of most males. I had to defend him by telling her that in my own life, that among the most common motivators; money, status, power, resources, sex, etc... by FAR the most corrupting one for me in my own life has been sex. And as a single man, it's not surprising at all that my brother would visit porn sites. I just wanted her to not have a negative image of him for it. As for myself, as I've gotten older, I've been far better at monitoring and improving the choices I make, but I've found it nearly impossible to attenuate how much of my mind's bandwidth is devoted to sex. I do think perhaps some women are similarly preoccupied with sex, but on the whole, I don't think most women can understand what this is like. At best it's merely distracting, but honestly, it's exhausting much of the time. Unfortunately it's a driving force in how men and women interact, and how we all compete with each other. It's difficult to adapt this primitive, chimp-brain wiring to our modern sensibilities.

@johnmacrae2006 11 месяцев назад

@skreeeboy Porn is maybe the greatest scourge of our age. Funny how free and accessible it is.

@cigogneaugmentee5398 Год назад

As an ugly man I am regularily reminded that beauty privilege is real and tragic. However I think men are judged by their looks just as much as women, but unlike women that judgment is inaccurate. An ugly man will more often be judged as "creepy" or "weird" even when we are groomed and behave normally. It seems as if we men are more victim of the halo effect, ie our ugliness is seen as a reflection of our whole being, while people can more easily separate a woman's (un)attractiveness from her personnality as a whole. That's my impression though it may be inaccurate.

@Quillette Год назад

Thanks for sharing

@dancroitoru364 3 месяца назад

"be judged as "creepy" or "weird" even when we are groomed and behave normally". and what is "behave normally"? an "attractive" person could behave with entitlement so in that sense beauty is a curse and a "non attractive" person could behave meekly and needy. In both cases "normal" would be defined as following from their looks. Yet anyone knows countless examples of people behaving counter to their normal "beauty privilege". So there's no "normal behavior" and no "beauty privilege". The discussion in this video is navel gazing. Good looks are validated up to a point (usually in the young age range). Look at this journal and numerous other young lookers opinion outlets. 95% of their output is navel gazing and is only validated because of their looks. Most useful output (in any domain of the human spirit) is not produced by navel gazers.

@robynmarler1951 Месяц назад

Cigogneaugmentee, God bless you. I don't know if you're right, I think it might be more possible for an odd looking man to be perceived as characterful. But I knew exactly what you meant by someone being clean and behaving normally. The world is very harsh💔

@SeanMach Год назад

Human behavior is a fascinating topic especially through the lens of male and female interaction. The candid nature of this conversation lends credibility to the topic and it's hosts.

@Quillette Год назад

Thanks!! :)

@roseh1132 Год назад

This is a good topic to delve into. Beauty is tied to socioeconic class. As Claire pointed out,' technology ' allows some women to control the aging process. We see this all the time in celebrity culture, whereby women well into their 50s look 'hot'. A lot of this is down to the capital available to maintain their appearance.

@mxvega1097 Год назад

Beauty, smarts and height - the last one is often under-appreciated. Taller people exhibit a number of traits which are projected onto them, but they end up embodying: height proxies for good diet, good genes, strength, leadership, responsibility etc. Numerous studies have been done with emergency management or crisis response where - in the absence of an obvious leader - everyone looks to the tall person to lead. That starts young, and compounds. Add smarts and looks and that's a dynamic combination. They might be amoral psychopaths, but genetic value assessment prima facie says they're highly desirable.

@rachellandry3116 11 месяцев назад

wait.. are you telling me that we dont want no short people, dont want no short people round here?!? 😆

@allcolorsareentombedinblack 5 месяцев назад

It's not “good genes”. That's a stereotype that comes from the XIX century and was used by the Nazis. Height is not a strong indicator for a good genetic makeup, there's a correlation, but it's almost nonexistent (lower than 4%).

@charlesculbertson2469 Год назад

38 year old, married man here. I've noticed over the years that my wife (same age) has become weirdly competitive over the years. It's hard to put a finger on it because it's so subtle. Nothing overt but usually a side comment or 'helpful suggestion' exchanges between moms. So weird. She's always on me for not having friends but from my PoV, it's lonelier for her because all she has is the pretense of friendship. This episode is helpful insight for me to be more empathetic.

@Quillette Год назад

Thanks for sharing. Perhaps she'll get something out of this conversation. As I said in the video, learning about intrasexual competition helped me be more kind to myself and understand these difficult emotions that I'd feel at times. - Zoe

@clairelehmann2494 Год назад

Mothers definitely engage in a lot of competition with each other! (One reason why I have always avoided mothers groups)

@dogsareboss Год назад

@@clairelehmann2494one reason I've always avoided those mothers groups is because I have no children and I'm a man in my 40s. X

@erinrichardson588 Год назад

Really great convo. Very thought provoking!

@Poecilia1963 Год назад

Ancient at 38. "You look amazing considering your age, which isn't... old". Ugh. I did manage to watch a few more minutes though, until Claire says "we don't really talk about" how women compete with each other in "interesting and covert ways". Well, I just turned 60, and I can tell you people have been talking about this forever (which is how long I've been around, I'm much older than merely "ancient"). I generally enjoy their discussions but I tuned out here, though I will also add, when I talk to female friends about the stage of life we are at now, the overwhelming sentiment is "I'm so glad I'm past all that". This is probably impossible for a younger person to believe, but there's a lot of freedom in it.

@Quillette Год назад

Thanks for watching!

@Poecilia1963 Год назад

@@Quillette ☺

@zoekyranne5883 Год назад

When Claire says “ancient” it’s tongue in cheek.

@lostcause6100 Год назад

68 and delighted to be 'past it' although my boyfriend who is 61 still finds me desirable - but in public I am happy to be a senior citizen and to put all that misery behind me - I dress entirely to please myself as I am now invisible which is a huge relief - I hated being stared at by men - it creeped me out. My female friends are not remotely competitive as we are all old ladies now and just don't care any more. You are right - the feeling of freedom is wonderful!

@thepiggishshow Год назад

Thought-provoking as always, girls. Happy Birthday Claire! 🎉❤

@annarboriter Год назад

Megan Murphy is quite the scold, ever defining down what proper sexuality is for all women in the name of feminist empowerment

@daheikkinen Год назад

Her hair is phenomenal though.

@annarboriter Год назад

@@daheikkinen Admittedly, ginger is my weakness, too, but I doubt I could stay very long in the same room with her

@benp4877 Год назад

@@daheikkinenyeah, I’m a sucker for the curly hair.

@bushwacka5187 Год назад

Well, she's not entirely wrong here though.....🤷🏼‍♂

@CBHS1962 Год назад

Everyone interested in this area needs to tap into Alexander Grace's commentaries on male and female issues. He is a relatively young Australian male. He has remarkable insight into female behaviour that women would often find chilling. He is on RU-vid. Research shows women's desirability is at it peak at 23 everywhere. Males at peak at 35 everywhere and this surprised me somwhat as I thought late 20s or very early 30s.Women of average to good looks have extreme power over men in the ages 16-30. And this power is very strong in Australia where numbers until recently favoured women even more for supply and demand reasons. When I travelled to mainland Europe at 30 "my pulling power" to my great surprise significantly increased - it was probably a numbers game.Women in Australia for the most part did not notice me and when I returned to Australia a year later I reverted to being hardly noticed.

@jposhpaws2588 Год назад

Why would any women be interested in the thoughts of a disgusting misogynistic incel like Alexander Grace.

@daheikkinen Год назад

Large lips aren’t attractive to me at all. I suspect this is a myth perpetuated among females for some reason. I want a small, thin-lipped girl. Guys tend to have fatter lips than females in my experience. I also want smaller women almost everywhere else except hips and maybe breasts, which all comes down to preference.

@banistersmind Год назад

A valuable conversation with some insights that I hadn't given a lot of thought to previously. Thank you ladies!

@Quillette Год назад

Thanks 🙏

@tommysmith7031 Год назад

Claire and Zoe looking might fine today :)

@Quillette Год назад

💅💅

@natosharogers3609 9 месяцев назад

Great discussion and solid points!

@bobbethard Год назад

wish Claire Lehmann and Zoe Booth would do a (video PUH-LEESE) panel on this topic including (just as a start) : Kat Rosenfield, Julia Galef, June Lupine, Diana Fleischman, Jules Terpak, Lydia Moynihan, Lauren Chen, Amy Mainzer .....

@Quillette Год назад

Thanks for the idea!

@noahpincus8344 Год назад

I think self-deception keeps us sane. If you stare long enough at the abyss, it stares back at you

@cut_thru Год назад

Pretty sure that Joseph Conrad reference is about the abyss is about stopping the deception and confronting the truth, the darkness.

@adelaidedupont9017 Год назад

@@cut_thru I thought it was Nietzsche who mentioned the abyss, in *Zarathustra* . What Conrad book or story mentioned the Abyss [and it looking back?].

@cut_thru Год назад

Loved this

@Quillette Год назад

Thank you!

@CBHS1962 Год назад

The reaction to the film Barbie will be interesting. The ultimate sex object???

@yogsogothyogosmith 11 месяцев назад

smart conversation, so refreshing. Thank you.

@alannothnagle Год назад

Excellent point about the need for greater knowledge on everyone‘s part. There‘s been vast research on sexuality, mating etc. over the years, but all we ever hear in public discourse is endless twattle about „patriarchy,“ as if merely uttering this magic word somehow ends all discussion.

@three3thou Год назад

Very interesting conversation as always. These conversations are as important for men as they give us insight into the feminine perspective.

@Quillette Год назад

Thanks!

@jamesl1806 11 месяцев назад

Great conversation. Just discovered this having been a long time Quillete reader. My one bug bear with this conversation is that it treats all shame as socially conditioned, whereas the notion of the sacred and the danger of defiling it has existed across all time and cultures - especially one's romantic partner. This is especially held to be true by Christian Critical Theory.

@MrAtoz-jq5ry Год назад

So academia has finally confirmed the old saying "why buy a cow when milk is free"

@user-wq8sd2qc4u Год назад

happy birthday!

@fraserct533 11 месяцев назад

This sounds like a rational & honest conversation - useful insight & confirmaton for us guys on how you ladies think & operate in the world +/- 60% I think I think I knew already, 20% I kind of knew, 20% new info. Be interesting to continue it by including 2 equally honest guys.

@consorharley2 Год назад

Maybe this is internalized Christian values, but I don't feel comfortable flaunting myself in any way. Not my looks, intelligence, achievements, none of it. Honestly that whole mindset grosses me out a little bit. If I broadcast something, it's done to achieve some goal (e.g. read my work so that my work is read and therefore meaningful), not to show off myself. I wonder if this behavior is gendered, too.

@Quillette Год назад

Interesting insight, thank you for sharing

@RenegadeContext 11 месяцев назад

Are the men in your Christian "culture" likely to temper themselves too or just the women? I put culture in inverted commas because I was not referring to a nationality

@XxsonicfanxX60 10 месяцев назад

@@RenegadeContextI'm a Christian man and for what its worth I try in certain contexts to temper myself aswell. For example, as a worship leader I try not to wear tight fitting clothing as to not be a distraction to what my mission is, which is to lead a worship experience through song. The goal is to get people to think about God not my looks. Now ofcourse I'm not representative of Christian culture as a whole and there's vast variety in Christian cultures as you may know. I will say though that the bible teaches meekness as a positive trait in general -- not just for women.

@RenegadeContext 11 месяцев назад

Were these people born wealthy? Because they seem to have no understanding how socioeconomic status effects people

@billyb8356 11 месяцев назад

Married man with sons. For a few reasons, I've felt quite territorial about my wife. Rather than letting it build up in my own mind until it turns into resentment, I've talked it through with her, and she has the kindness to listen and try to understand. I think a lot of it comes from the knowledge of how the male brain works, and I instinctively know that other men will lust after my wife with just one look. I can imagine that if I had a daughter I'd feel VERY protective. As for the marriage, it's very important to regularly talk things through, however unpleasant the conversations might be to hear. It's the only way to maintain trust and keep the marriage strong. Without nurturing, it would be easy for frustration and resentment to build up, which can lead to divorce, or even worse, a prolonged and unhappy emotionally and/or physically abusive relationship. One thing she did say is when she gets glammed up for events with the make-up and nice dresses, the motivation leans more towards upstaging other women as opposed to attracting the attention of men. But then doesnt this come down to the inherent instinct to be the most attractive mate in a competitive market?

@uncleskipsprairiejustice9367 11 месяцев назад

If I didn't know better I'd say Zoe Booth was Jennifer Connelly's kid sister. But then she probably gets that a lot. Oh and the sexual marketplace theory? Any guy dumb enough to think that having lots of sex with lots of women somehow lowers the value of sex or woman is a moron way beyond remediation. So what does that say about women who somehow believe in or perpetuate this model?

@douglashanson7489 3 месяца назад

There's nothing tragic about ugliness, because it's completely avoidable. We are completely capable, culturally, of eradicating that condition. Pride is the roadblock. Everyone thinks they, themselves, individually- have an existential mandate to replicate, even if they _know_ their heritable genes are a burden, and their offspring will be a victim of those undesirable genes. It takes an _incredible_ amount of selfishness to personally experience the unending discomfort of being ugly, or dim-witted, and to then _knowingly condemn your own offspring_ to being born that way, without any say in the matter. There's no reason we can't arrive at a set of cultural values, where people have the humility to admit that their genes _just aren't worth reproducing._ Ugly and stupid people would still be born, for many generations, but at less and less frequent rates. And there'd be no reason why they couldn't lead happy lives too, say, by adopting the orphaned children of beautiful intelligent people. All it would take, would be admitting, as a culture, that we value beauty, health, and intelligence. We _Do_ value these things, we just refuse to admit it as a culture. It's like we think there's some kind of "moral high ground" to justifying the overproduction of defective genetics. Nature normally weeds those out, but the agricultural revolution started putting an end to that ten thousand years ago. If we won't let nature select us, then _we have to select us._

@CBHS1962 Год назад

A tattoo on the younger woman?? Do tattoos on women have the same affect as tattoos on men?

@bostonseeker Год назад

The hosts of the Quillette RU-vid channel seem to project no insecurity here ....

@aresmars2003 7 месяцев назад

Yes, the sense a big fish in a small pond, but after that competition hell!

@jonnieinbangkok 4 месяца назад

Zoe is 🔥

@krillr_prawn 3 месяца назад

Loving the evolutionary biology links to the dialogue.

@luke2642 11 месяцев назад

Interesting, but using the "man in the bank" example repeatedly isn't great. Maybe switch it up with a man on the oil rig, man working as private security in Iraq, plenty of high earning 99% male examples which aren't actually desirable to women.

@birsay123 3 месяца назад

Unibrow 😮

@uchihakakashi354 9 месяцев назад

personally i love thirst traps as a man

@ConanDuke 10 месяцев назад

If she's 38, I'm Chairman Mao. Oh, wait...

@clifb.3521 10 месяцев назад

This episode is a thirst trap yo

@adamjutras7024 Месяц назад

Sexualization isn't inherently bad.....

@joanr3189 11 месяцев назад

She’s 38? Quel horreur! Ennuyant.

@allcolorsareentombedinblack 5 месяцев назад

Slut-shaming is a reality check for privileged people. That's all.

@deleted01 2 месяца назад

It's Communism in the SMP

@shaunclubberlang2887 Год назад

This sexual market place value stuff is utter nonsense. People are free to do what they want. If a woman wants to have a lot of sex that's her business not yours. Truly pathetic

@mayormccheese6171 Год назад

You know that's not how the world works though.

@shaunclubberlang2887 Год назад

@@mayormccheese6171 What? You mean that women like this are free to be judgemental assholes? Fine, The women who like sex for the sake of sex will just do their thing and ignore them anyway. This sexual marketplace value nonsense is just there to make the pussy incels who aren't getting any feel better about themselves.

@shaunclubberlang2887 Год назад

@@peteMickeal33 Er.. no. It's a simple concept. One group of people wanting to impose their values and beliefs on another group. Only in this case they are dressing it up in a new pseudo intellectual term that is nonsense. It's the age old looking at other people's behaviour and tut-tutting, rather than just minding your own fucking business, which is what you should do.

@cut_thru Год назад

Calling something 'utter nonsense' with no justification is whats "truly pathetic". Take a page out of the book of these two on the video who support their assertions with more than just opinion. Of course it's a woman's business if she wants to have a lot of sex, but that's not the point of what this video is about - no one here is telling women how much sex to have or not to have, you gormless amoeba. Did you even watch it or are you just another incel-esque troll venting his life away on videos like this? Perhaps you can expand and explain your case or.... If you want to see truly pathetic, go back and look in the mirror (then go back and re-read all the comments you've made on this and other videos).