Is Geothermal Heating & Cooling Worth It? 

I put in the original Geothermal heat pump in 1986 for our all electric house because we had no gas at our location. The cost was twice as much as a system that would use propane. The heat pump was very efficient, we had low electric bills for heating and cooling. After 10 years we needed a part to fix the Geothermal heat pump unit but the company went out of business. We had to buy another system and spent over $15,000, this lasted for around 15 years until the fluid in the loop ate out the inside of the unit. Then we had to replace the liquid in the loop and another unit which cost over $26,000. I will not use another Geothermal heat pump system again. In 30 years I spent over $48,000 on units, I did not get that back in savings. I am going with Mini-splits now.

As I got older and wiser, I found out the best way to improve efficiency was to move from our 5,700 sf home to our present 1700 sf home. Now we have a farm with horses, 3000 sf of external shop/ horse barn and a much more happy lifestyle from when what we had when we were chasing our tail . With solar, our electric bill is about 30 to 40 bucks per month with 2 stage air source heat pump. Electric bill with the older home was about $250 per month. Thanks for posting and good luck with your interesting builds Garrett.

Built a ground source heat pump in 1976 in Western Washington state. It performed well at one third cost of a Carrier heat pump next door. Dug down 4ft. 4 loops on 3 trenches for 3 ton unit. Used a r12 pump down system. Never lacked heating and cooling.

Glad I stumbled across your videos. I didn't have a lot of good info on geothermal, but now on my upcoming build (on an acreage, using hydronic in-floor heating), I'll definitely be planning a geothermal setup. And conveniently, my new build will be of similar size to yours, so your series has been just perfect for me. Thanks!

Please keep these updates coming. Your videos have inspired my family and my parents to sell our houses and do this ourselves. We have purchased land and just starting the steps to build our dream home. I'm using ICF and geothermal thanks greatly to you sharing your experience. These updates on anything you did allows me to make any adjustments based on things i might hear. I would like to hear more about the hot water tank being heated by geothermal. Keep up these great videos and perfect format.

2004 I put in a well-type Geothermal in Folsom California. I designed and built my house as a simple carpenter's house. As a Carpenter I knew to go heavy on the insulation with 2x6 exterior walls and 2" rigid foam over that. The doors and windows are highly insulative as well as the clay tile roof. I put in 4 each 250 foot wells for a 2200 sf house. We had to rock drill but hit water at 85 feet. My electricity bill averages $150 per month without solar with high California electrical bills. My neighbors houses, which are 1,000 sf bigger, run $750 to $1,000 per month. If I had to do it over again I'd also use ICF exterior walls (I've done a large ICF project now) but would still keep the house simple and use the most insulative doors and windows in reason. Funny how most people don't understand that to really be Green you need to design you're house to Conserve, heat, energy and materials. In 18 years my repair bills have been $1,000 for an HVAC Tech to make two trips and replace one of my "pond pumps" that circulates the water.

My geothermal system in Western Oregon works great and it's over 20 years old. It's also connected to my hot water heater. I only have it serviced every other year.

Wow, thanks for the update! yeah as a carpenter, I keep thinking that we ought to install geothermal coils every time we backfill a basement. Same with septic systems, just bury some loops under the weeping bed and the tank. Also waterfront places don't need loops, just intake pipes going close to the bottom of the water body to get the naturally cool in summer and warmer in winter temps down there. I live in Canada so air source heat pumps need to be backed up because they stop working at -18 C when we need it the most!

I did the same about ten years ago, I put it into an old leaky farmhouse on 11 acres, put about 2000' of loop under the pasture, and it's been great. If it hadn't I would have set iy up to use my well water from my current 450' well and and put the return over into the pond. The whole thing unit as well as installing it myself cost about $6,000. Only problem I've had with it is the condensation drain plugging up after 5-6 years which is common for all types of systems around here.

Thank you for the update I watch the very first one. Plan on putting one in my little farm in Tennessee. I'm going to go for a very large field I have a greenhouse I want to cool and heat and a few other projects on the property that I want to use it for two.

I put my Geo thermal in 11 years ago. love it.

Although I am reading this one year after it was put on RU-vid, there is a comment that I'd like to make regarding propane. He said that the price was volatile during certain times of the year and he is absolutely correct. If you have a propane tank that belongs to the propane supplier, you are paying the highest price for propane particularly in the winter months, astronomically high per gallon. I got an education on propane purchasing when I was a Director at a 501 C nonprofit organization. Subsequently at the same time I was moving to a home that had electric heat and I wanted to change it to propane. Here is what is necessary to get the lowest price and it is unbelievably cost saving. You must own your own propane tanks. I recommend you buy two 1000 gallon either below ground or above ground propane tanks that you own. Each tank will hold 85% of 1000 gallons. in my situation one 850 gallons would handle one winter season. I didn't need to buy any additional propane during the winter. The only time that I bought propane was in mid June or early July when the price was lowest. Because you own your own tanks you contact all of the suppliers in your area and give them the information that you own your own tanks and you're interested in filling one or more within the next week or two. You will be stunned at how low the price is comparatively. If you can't handle buying one or two propane tanks, I recommend you don't attempt to heat your home with propane. A good thing to remember is that electric heat is 100% efficient. If you insulate properly and I mean properly that is also a very good option.

Helpful tips on installing this type of system. Thank you

Great install. I'm am hvac tech. I always loved installing Geothermal. I would recommend a outdoor split geothermal system if possible. It keeps the noise outside and they are actually much quite than a all in one package geothermal system. No noise to worry about cause it's just a very low hum..

about to build a new house on a farm with plenty of land...and we have been discussing your system as an option

I appreciate this. Thank you!

Good to hear. Thanks for sharing.

You can further your efforts to quiet the noise heard in your son's bedroom either by the use of spray foam insulation, or a much more DIY friendlier installation of some rock wool. Rock wool installs just as easy as the pink stuff, it's fire proof, there is no need to worry about fiberglass fibers, and there is the sound deadening aspect of it as well.

Holy doody your house is amazing.

Excellent video !!

Great update!

Rockwool safe and sound would way better for sound deadening between floor joists.

For sound reduction this from Home Depot works wonders: 1/2 in. x 48 ft. x 8 ft. R-1.2 Sound Board Sound Barrier EPS Rigid Foam Board Insulation

Would like to see a video showing how the geothermal system works. How deep must you go to reach heat underground to warm the home in the winter?

Thanks for taking the time to post and especially a 4 year review !! How many months is Typically winter out with you ? What is typically the Temperature in Winter ? For a 3000 foot house what size Land is required for the Pipe Grid ?

Great informative video. Better too many loops till it's time for a bigger pump.😊

@ 4:55 Try a soft starter on the compressor unit. YT has videos on it.

Thank you for this vids. So you use two systens - geotermic and solar. Without them, how much did you would be paying for energy? Just the geotermic can provide for the entirelly house?

awww just finished my garden, put so much effort in it. i could never dig it all open again :s

Rockwool is used in pro sound dampening panels, so maybe try that and see how it does?

Regarding your farmhouse example, I still think a ground loop heat pump is the way to go. With "no" insulation, any system you install is gonna run continuously, so it may as well be as efficient as possible, and nothing that I'm aware of can beat ground loop. More efficient still would be a coat of spray foam in the cavities of the exterior walls though. That can be done after the tax credit though. 🤓👍

Covering the inside of that mechanical room with something like Rockwool safe 'n sound will effectively kill that noise.

I had a 3 ton WaterFurnace closed horizontal ground loop installed at my former waterfront home in Northern Ontario. Adequate ground loops are imperative. The house has to be well insulated. The noise can be irritating. And you have to live in an area where electrical pricing isn’t subject to idiotic price changes.

Thank you sir!

This has to be super fella. I am looking into doing the same thing. A home with 2400 square feet not really very well insulated, how much of a loop do I need ?? Thanks

been a while! congrats on your geothermal glad it worked out for you. I haven't done anything with that on my end yet because I have to go through bunch of permits and right now I'm preparing to install 25 KW solar array. after that maybe a simplified heat pump system with geothermal

I think your building envelope should be your primary investment as far as efficiency because that’s going to give you the best ROI then geothermal system is a great option , as you mentioned farm house we recently inherited my wife’s family’s farmhouse that is a great candidate for geo but as you stated , we are in process of completing all the upgrades to bring it up to the year 2022 and the last time it had any attention was 1972 ? Yea , luckily I’m retired ( I think ) and having equipment to do the work . Did I mention there’s a lot of old structures, barns , shop and they all predate the house as far as the last time they received maintenance. If it wasn’t for are grandkids it would not have been my first choice going into retirement and they have helped with all the work thus far including zip lines , go kart track , lots of tractors to repair . If it gets them out here to visit that’s my goal ! And get heat & cooling by summer 2023 ? Lol 😂

Next Step: Geothermal Water Well Using burried plastic sewer pipes and an air pump your DIY can percipitate your own drinking water to the tune of 15gph. Forget about CA water consumption restrictions. Plus the excess airflow not only provides dringing water but can be used to cool and heat your home!

Just did an amvic pour, very neat system 10m rebar

when you were talking about the hypothetical farmhouse, what did you mean by the ground could become saturated? thanks for both your videos on this system and congratulations- you did a lot of work!

What size heat pumps did you put in per floor? I'm curious as to what your load calculation came out to on a 3000 sqft per floor ICF home. What brand did you go with and what was the seer rating at the time.

We have a 1700sq ft home built in 1987 and had a geothermal system installed in September 2021. From Nov 21 to May 22 it cost an average of $175.57 per month. The system is closed loop with two wells each 288 ft deep and a 5 ton Geo Unit. We live in the Hudson Valley where temps can range from -5F to 95F depending on the season. In Jan and Feb we used about 100 gallons of heating oil each month with our old system. That would translate to about $350 - $500 depending on the price of oil in addition to the electric the furnace used. Our electric is about .23.5 per kwh. Love the Geothermal!

Soundproofing would help greatly.

Brilliant video

I have a ground source unit and love it. First unit ran for about 30 years no problems at all. Replaced it with a more efficient unit.

So - my take from your feedback is that success starts with a house that is highly insulated and positioned to maximise Solar PV take and equipped with radiators (or underfloor heating) sized for the lower flow temperatures you will obtain from the heat pump. Some form of electricity storage would probably help too. That sounds like a new-build house unfortunately.

Hey, just wanted to say that if you want to get rid of that hum in your son's room, hang some rock wool insulation. Rock wool is really really good at keeping noise down. I put it all around our laundry room, and you can never tell when someone is doing laundry.

it would be nice to know what your utility bill cost would be with out the solar array. That it works so well is great news.

Excellent!

Did you do a blower door test? What was your ACH? Aerobarrier could cut your ACH in half, and the blower door testing is continous during that process. Thank you so much for all the info on geothermal systems, I'm definitely gonna do this myself! Keep up the great work!!

04:35: warning equipmwnt fed by two sources.......very nice touch, may save sumones life someday. Proactive thinking.

Glad this worked out so well for him. Generally speaking, I don't recommend DIY geothermal because DIY has given geo a bad reputation in the past. A properly designed and installed system will give you insanely good efficiency and a worry-free system for decades. I understand the allure of DIY because the install cost is high. One growing trend that will bring down the cost of geothermal is utilities beginning to install geothermal over an entire neighborhood. Electric utilities love it because it reduces peak demand in the summer and provides electric demand in the winter. Just beware if you are a DIYer, there are many opportunities to screw it up.

I made mine very simple, could only go between 5 to 6 feet in clay and granite rock. did have air in the line, ended up using a 5 gallon bucket tossed in a small sub pump no pressure and no air in the line. Do not buy cheap units learned that lesson, use a Waterfurnace. Older homes it can run more often. use mine spring /summer /fall , dead of winter still need my boiler. -30c Big tip.. Geo kicks off 90% of the time the air filter is dirty.

Suggest rock wool insulation to mute bleed through noise.

I would recommend putting up some sound deadening foam and runner used in the music industry in sound rooms on the ceiling above the unit. Maybe in place if the sheetrock you screwed on.

thanks!

What did you do to size the system? I have a new barn and I am already digging a 350+ foot trench to build a new spring development. I was going to drop that water line at 6'. I could just go an additional 2' and i'd have a trench for the same type of setup. How did you calculate the amount of pipe to fan it out? Also, did you look into how tree root systems effect the pipe? This will be going under an orchard, but I could hae the trees avoid the strip.

Prior to escaping So-Cal 15 years ago, I was paying $950/Mo to air condition a 4,000 SF well-built 2-story house. I think it was about .15KW at the time. (It is .225 now😳) I researched ground-source heat pumps but the mean ground temp in North Idaho was just 44F. Heat is much more important than AC, so it didn’t quite pencil out, even with me digging the trenches. A pro advised that he’d installed 4 systems in the area and none were really paying off, so I went with 16 seer air-source heat pumps. This was over 10:years ago, but do your research.

Glueing some of that foam egg crate stuff to the ceiling would probably be a lot more effective than another piece of flat drywall. Like an anechoic chamber.

Run rockwool in the cavity, 2 layers of 5/8" on rc channel and then sound foam over the too. No sound will get through that

Thoughts on type of ground source heat pumps for radiant floor heating or forced air? Also what about heating potable water? I have read that the potable water does not get as hot? Thank you for your videos

Awesome video!! One question- how do you cool the house? Do you run the compressor, to a air heat exchanger or??

Could you share where you got your "Geothemal kit" from? Or the type of Bosch Units you used? Did some searching on the old inter webs and it get really confusing real fast with all kind of companies wanting to be your one stop installer. I like the DIY aspect of your setup

I build a super insulated house 1200 sg and I use a open radiant floor system, I use 2. 50 gal electric Geo

I wish I had a geothermal setup to deposit and withdraw heat through cement the basement floor of my townhouse condo (so probably no digging allowed). I also wish I had a loop with probably CO2 as the working fluid to transfer heat from the wastewater pipe to preheat water going to a heat pump water heater, and since I'm dreaming, that heat pump got most of its heat from the exiting water after the first loop (or maybe just a heat pump loop).

Good video, what temperature does your system keep your house when it's 110 degree's outside? Can you keep your house at 74, is that possible? Thanks!

They make a quilted sound barrier that you can put up around it with speed rail … just a suggestion I work on geothermal systems in mansions in the Hamptons of Long Island New York and that is what we do especially when we have 7 or 8 geothermal condensers all stacked together as you can imagine that vibration noise magnified by 8 but the sound Barrier deadens that to a small hum

I wanted to install geothermal in my new house but couldn't because we only have less than 30" of topsoil above 10,000' of bedrock. And drilling one or more wells would be very expensive especially since we have very cheap power at less than .05/kwh. So I have 2 heat pumps, which I recently had to replace both compressors after 22 years of service. My electrical cost runs from $150 in the summer to over $500 in the winter, in a very large over 5,000 sqft house. We're in Central Wash State where the temp runs from zero in winter to over 100 in the summer.

Man I wanna do something like this

you could sound insolate that area to stop the sound hum

Nice !!

I have been in the HVAC business my whole life and have installed all types of systems. I am a fan of geothermal but unless you can install yourself it’s not cost effective. A better insulated home with mini splits are the way to go in my opinion. The COP on a Geothermal might be 5.5 and the most efficient mini’ are around 4.5. That makes geothermal the winner if the costs were the same but unless your like me or the RU-vidr who made this video the best and first thing to do is build an efficient home. To be fair I did install geothermal on a home I built and did it all myself so it was the best way to go, but when I have to sell to a customer it’s still a great system just not cost effective.

Hey Gzarret thanks for the grezat report. I don't know if you can anwer this. Our utilityis offering a huge rebate to replace very old furnace with a thermal storage for thermal heating.. They heat the deramic bricks during offpeak houurs ant release the accumulated energy from the bricks when they are needed. It's tempting. What do you think?

The sound inside depends very much on the choise of compressor. Different conpressors have differnt soundlevels. Avoid piston-compressors if you have to place them on a place that is sound sensitive

Hi Garret based on watching your videos and taking your advice I have installed a closed loop geothermal sytem that does heating /cooling and domestic hot water and has a built in ERV. My cottage is a A frame structure and about 900 square ft. My Trench length is 95 feet and I have about 520 feet of 3/4" HDPE pipe. The cottage is located 46 degree latitude 78 Degree longitude. Place is called Lake Kipiwa Quebec Canada. The pipes went in the ground November 2022. at a depth of 6' . The system started operating in mid December 2022. Measuring the temperature of the copper pipe that carries the water/gycol mix from the ground in mid January it was 6C. In February the in was 10C, in March 14C. Now that i've been running the air conditioning the ground temperature coming in is 20C and this has been so since mid June. I attribute the early low temperature because in December 2022 when the water/gycol was inserted in the HDPE pipe it had been sitting in the unheated cottage therefore the water/gycol temperature was about 2-3C when it was fed into the HDPE pipes. Currently in mid August the incomimg temperature is 20C and the temperature going back into the ground is 32C; this is favourable as we will be getting into winter and nightime temperatures will dip to -30C . I also believe that the high ground temperature currently is partly due to very wet ground I encountered when digging the trenches. Yoiur thoughts ?

Do you harvest water at all?

Did you try foam to absorb some of the sound? I would think a couple inches of foam on the ceiling above the unit would mitigate nearly all the noise bleeding through to the room above

You might have been out of luck with your noisy heat pump. Usually, most of them aren't noisier than a fridge ! Or maybe there are some issues with the sound insulation (mechanical coupling, resonance...) ?

What is your electricity usage annually? And how much solar production is generated by your system?

My LEGO league team is presenting an Innovation project on Geothermal pump. Can they reach out to you anyway to seek some advice?

My septic system is in the way so I am going with solar that banks KWH for winter heat. I also don't have gas so solar may end up cheaper compared to bringing in gas and getting gas furnace and paying for dino fuel forever.

Awesome 😻😻😻🥳🥳🥳

Compressor noise - have you tried to have a rubber base under the compressor to isolate the vibration and noise. The rubber has to be of a certain type and size to get the best results (depends on the weight and frequency). see an Industrial noise consultant.?

I am building a cottage in Quebec Canada. It's an A frame building and about 950 square feet. Very well insulated with triple glazed windows. I am off grid and have a 7 kW solar system with batteries and a back up propane generator. I have a all in one ERV/split Heat pump. I am on a lake and originally was going to put my pipes in lake water however the distance to the lake and the distance to get to a 10 foot depth was too much. We have a well so then I thought I'll go open loop however my HVAC contractor convinced me to go to closed loop ground. Even though I'm on almost 2 acres I only have a small area next to the cottage that is cleared. I can only fit 2 trenches 30' long. My soil is surrounded by bedrock and is very wet ( digging for the foundation we hit standing water). My thought is: given the size and efficiency of the building as well as having a super efficient ERV/Heat pump and my wet soil. I think that 50-60 of trench and installing coil pumping should suffice for cold Canadian temperatures. Your thoughts?

Problem with all this energy efficient stuff is it's initial cost .they say it can save money in the long run or adds resale value . Then they give you the line you don't buy it to save money you buy it to to save the planet.

We had solar installed in Oct of 2022, and boy was that expensive. I've been interested in geothermal for over 10 years. Given you did this yourself, what do you do for a living?

Good, informative video! That's a lot of space to heat and cool! Nice! People were telling us we should install a system like this, but in our area, and with the passive solar design of our house we should be able to stay comfortable with the occasional use of a wood burning stove in the winter, and an evaporative cooler in the summer. We are all solar, but putting in some propane for our stove, and we'll have the option for the dryer as well. 😊🏜️

My geothermal system passes air through 4 inch landscaping drainage corrugated pipe and pushes air to my AC condenser coil. Not a heat pump but at least I save money in the summer. This is the second summer of use. My electric cost went down about $500 per season. It cost me $1500 to install and next year I will have recovered 100% of my investment. If and when my AC system breaks down, I will replace it with a heat pump to use year round and the cost should go down even more. My total summer electric bill from May to Sept, went down from $900 to $400. So even a poor mans geothermal can work for you. I am designing a cheap liquid heat exchanger to test out on a swimming pool as a heat sink.

So tell me, Mr. do it yourselfer, if you had any warranty issues, how did those work out for you?

Do you run the backup system every so often? Or does it just sitting there not effect it negatively over time?

Ground source heat pump is a good name and should be used, to not confuse it with geothermal energy from deep drilling. Geothermal energy provides much higher temperatures.

Will a teothermal cooling system work in an areas where there will be need of cooling all year round and the temperature in the middle of the day is appr. 32 degrees C all year round?

With regard to cooling (in our climate we never need heating) I'm about to build a new small retirement house on a couple of acres. I intend to make a large swimming pond/lake. I'm thinking of laying piping in the bottom of the lake, pumped through a heat pump to cool the house, Much less work to install but would it be as efficient as in ground?

You cold put some of your over heat into a greenhouse and grow food as well .

question. I am wanting to cool and heat a green house. 200 sq ft. to place the pipe in a pit is it better to use 90 deg turns or not? was planning on 200 ft of pipe approx 7 feet down. would this be enough to make an affect on temps? . no return to earth just straight in.

I had a 3-ton, 3 vertical well geo system retrofitted to existing ductwork this past November 2021. I also have a 10.5 kW solar array. So, far I love both, and this year I anticipate being net zero. My geothermal system is from Carrier/Bryant, and the total cost was $19,300 (less a 26% tax credit). A friend of mine paid nearly $12K for a new HVAC system, so to my mind, having this system installed was a 'no-brainer' once the cost and efficiency were considered. I pretty much agree with all of Garrett's comments. While there is a low-end hum from the compressor, the variable speed fan is much quieter than my old air handler, so from a noise perspective, I think the geo unit is quieter overall.

Try active noise canceling.

I have 6.25 tons of air source heat pumps and my electric bill is zero. Oh yeah, I’m powering everything with solar and lithium iron phosphate batteries. Now that’s freaking incredible.

Hi, Im building a house in south of Mexico and it is very hot down here, the house design is very ventilated so the house isn't sealed at all, do you think it's worth doing this system for my case?

Also, I am wondering if you have ever measured amp draw on the system while functioning. I have a 3 ton unit that runs currently about 2500w and I am looking for something that works in a much more efficient fashion. I can never seem to get an answer on running wattage of these and would love to know. I have to use a 5 or 6 ton unit when I install as I want it to cover both floors of my home and I really do not want to use anything else other than this so that I can account for that load. Thanks!