Many people claim Gundam 00 second season is lacking. After watching it for myself I can't quite figure out why. Link to the Discord: / discord Link to Patreon: www.patreon.com/user?u=312627...
While I do like both seasons of 00, I can see why someone might dislike 00 season 2... but calling it SEED Destiny level bad I can not understand. Even at it's worst points 00 never became infuriating or outright annoying, something which Destiny to me did multiple times. Also at no point in 00 was I ever practically screaming at the screen: "How can anyone in the story be stupid enough to believe such an obvious lie!?!"...
@@BOOFIRE191 Ironic that those are same people who thinks IBO S2 was good. IBO S2 is really bad because of forced deaths as well unresolved plot lines from S1
@@BOOFIRE191 I don't think so much a massive dip in quality so much it felt like a very different show in Season 2 versus season 1. Granted there was a dip in quality. One thing that drew me in was the series setting and characters felt a lot more real and grounded compared with other Gundam series set in the so distant future they're using a different Calendar. As a big historical and political buff 00 really caught my eye as a series. So it was kind a let down when the second season felt so different from the first. It wasn't terrible, but it sure as hell wasn't what drew me into the series to begin with.
I actually liked Ribbons as the villain because he fits the role of Lucifer really well. He was created to help humanity but sees himself as superior to them. His first appearance is angelic when he saves Setsuna, and Setsuna is in awe at the 0 gundam. This make the imagery in the first episode a lot deeper than what we first think. I also like how both Setsuna and Ribbons both had an impact on each other that led them to where they are now. Ribbons saves Setsuna and influences Veda to make him a meister and Setsunas awe when Ribbons saves him shows Ribbons that he is superior to humans. The last thing to note is that the Marinas monologue at the end to Setsuna is almost a response Setsunas monologue at the end of season 1.
The point of Seiji and Louise (Hope I spelled her name right) was actually very important, and very Gundam: They were the only civilists among the main-cast. Suprisingly enough the main-characters of Gundam OO were all soldiers, people who were trained to both fight and kill when given the order which is completly different from allmost all the other Gundam-shows. Normally our PoV character is a civilian who gets pulled into a war and has to find somehow a way out of it alive. Not this time. This is why they were important, they grounded the events and showed the audience what these kinds of events could do to somebody, esspecially Louise. She is the "worst case" scenario of what could happen to a character in Gundam, that they could lose themselves in the lunacy that is war while Seiji represented what this franchise is in its core: Normall people trieng to survive by trieng to talk to one another. Something Setsuna can't realy do because that's not quite his side of the story. That's also why I was actually speculating before season 2 was about to be revealed that Seiji and Louise would replace Lockon and Tieria as Gundam Meisters, considering that they both would have fit the narrative mold of Gundam to a T.
@@barrybend7189 We don't talk about awakening of the trailblazer. That movie was propably one of the worst messes ever produced in th Gundam-franchise.
@@EnerKaizer Really? I thought it fit 00 super well and was a pretty good conclusion. The aliens are def kinda weird, but they'd been foreshadowed before and I thought it fit the themes pretty perfectly. Idk I enjoyed it personally.
T.J. Jones That was a beautiful scene but thinking back on it I don’t get why they didn’t just pull a Kira and blow all the suits limbs off, then throw her in storage till after the big battle.
Slufffy G because Ribbons was about to off Lockon. Setsuna had to stop her/him without room for much tact. If the OORaiser hadn’t been damaged that fight might have tilted in Lockon’s favor.
I didn't really care for Anew that much. She was a really bland mole character. And the new lockon wasn't even remotely as interesting as the first one.
@@transformersrevenge9 true though,they are trying to imitate Zeta scene like Four and Kamille scene,taking the new Lockon just because he is Lockon brother is pure publicity and nepotism
You must have high expectations while being a 12 year old kid to think 00 was bad. Its a pretty good representation of what could happen story wise in the real world. There were some plot holes but think about it this way.... hmm.... Gundam 0079 ........ a kid with a manual trying to learn a gundam facing some real world killers that are used to piloting mechs ...... hmmm can that happen?? HMMMMMMMM......... Yet people think that's a good gundam series .... OMEGALUL
I must say, finale of 0079 was indeed something to behold. It always reminded me of how ancient fables used to describe fighting of heroes - "And first they've fought in Mobile Suits, broke the mobile suits and left them. Then they fought with Firearms, spent all the ammo and left them. Then they fought with the swords, broke them and left them. Then they fought with words, but the words couldn't reach them."
@@dontuspowerus1093 ...did you not watch the video all the way through? Boo talked about the final fight of 00S2 being awesome, just still topped by 0079's final fight.
I'd prefer how overpowered setsuna and the 00 was if during season 2s opening setsuna with the armless exia was kicking butt and show us the audience during the several years time jump setsuna was getting skilled and a now old piece of tech could beat the newer models. So an updated gundam of course he could do crazy things with the 00.
He was definitely still giving a-laws all the work with his damaged exia😂😂 also even though the final battle was truthfully only close because of the stolen tech for the twin drive, I still enjoyed the banagher links level bullshit he was pulling😂😂😂 00-raiser really one of the most OP gundams ever 😂😂
Me too. What's even crazier is how Setsuna defeated 3 GNX III with a Flag holding a GN Sword and thats it, won the fight in less than a minute. Whereas Exia Repair only held up against a few GNX III and Aheads. Really shows how much improvement in terms of skills Setsuna has had as a genuine Innovator.
About the GN drives: it is important to note that it was a technology that Aeolia developed with celestial beings and that the Gundams had the originals that were manufactured in Jupiter's orbit. The ones that the gnx and other earth mobile suits had were pseudo GN drives and do not have their own solar furnaces. This was already made clear in season 1. So the advantages on machine potential and development alone was still on the side of Celestial Being by season 2. So it's not surprising that that's what happened and the technology was simply developed and escalated. Heck we could even see that development history from the basic gund concept in the 0-GUNDAM in the beginning which was a basic suit with a rifle and shield to the specialized units the Meisters wielded a few years later when Celestial Being made its debut in world. The earth was in essence, reverse engineering a copy, and to make that much MS in such a short time skip, of course they wouldnt have the time for a Jupiter expedition to mass produce. 2 as for the machine potential again. Tieria questioned why lockon would recommend setsuna to join their organization when he lacked experience (we could assume he meant as a pilot since we know that Setsuna was in fact a child soldier) which shows that even in season 1, the machines were not able to show off their full potential as, though well trained, the Meisters were not veteran pilots. By season 2, setsuna was so it is still believable that he could do crazy shit to next gen gnx and Aheads with a busted ass Exia: he was just that much better a pilot who knows the ins and outs of the technology and he has a machine with the full potential of the original GN drive. But yeah the bump up in technology just goes bonkers.
this is my point, but to go a step further, the big climactic battle at the end of S1 where the gundams were suddenly outmatched was due to a list of things occurring at the same time: They lost their super-computer link in VEDA The GN-X came out of nowhere and only existed because of insider betrayal Ali Al-Sachez was given a Gundam, one of the Thrones. This meant he was pretty much on par with the Gundams. Throughout S1 the Gundam curb-stomped just about everything, which didn't help in proper battle experience. So while comfortable in their machines, the meisters were not ready for near-equal combat. What I'm saying is that if 1 or 2 of those things weren't in the mix, CB would have turned it all around in S1.
I’ve also heard that the gundam team tinkered with their GN Drives between seasons, and that the new suits use their GN energy more efficiently. Though this was revealed in side content. It should have honestly been explained in the show they could have done it while introducing the Double 0. I’m more confused about why celestial being didn’t also build tau drives. You know for use with gundams from season 1.
@@awesomechainsaw Probably either they focus on the quality of the new generation Gundams or they refuse to use GN Tau out of principle since that said drive was a pale imitation and mockery of the true GN Drive
to add to the fact the tau drives are polar opposites in concept to a true gn drive . One of those features is any damage caused to the piots of either suit or exposure could lead to cancer and wounds that dont recover even with all the advanced medical tech in the 00 universe .
My main complaint about S2 is that it got rid of my favorite dynamic of S1, the different factions. Seeing each one deal with problems differently and with various goals made it very interesting, fairly grounded and kept me entertained. But when everyone was magically suddenly on the same team, that dynamic was gone and it just felt like every other Gundam. Not bad, not as interesting as S1 though.
Sure the different blocks were interesting to watch and the way they their technology developed so differently from one another, but they didn't really "magically" got together, whole first season was in a way, about the process it took to the world to get together in order to fight a "common threat", Celestial Being.
Ribbons was interesting for the fact he basically is homage Amuro(sharing the same VA), but now being evo cetric. Though if I have to give 00 second season any kinda props, good the MS design got crazy fun and stupid in the best way possible.
Season 2 has a lot of awesome moments, to be fair. The fall of Orbital Elevator (probably my favorite), Capt. Smirnoff's death, Lockon and Anew's heartbreaking fight, even Louise's monologue in her cockpit after she killed Nena Trinity. Those were so good! My only disappointment maybe is the flat character arc of a favorite of mine, Alleluia, wherein he basically shouted "Marie!!!!" in all its entirety. Poor guy!
I love Gundam 00 overall though the movie does go a bit too overboard. And from a meta stand point I found it very interesting that Ribbons is voiced by the same person who voiced Amuro.
that's funny, I thought 00 Season 2 was alright. where's all the hate coming from? sure, I checked out a few times out of disinterest for what was currently happening, but it mostly kept my attention.
I dont think anyone hate 00 season 2 it just contains so much thing that similar to what boofire dont like about gundam series before it so they just speculate boofire will not like this but in the process they forget about other things
Lyle was already shown very early into season 1. He wasn't some asspull character that the writers introduced just because they regretted killing Neil. And even though they had a similar cheerful personality, Lyle's insecurities as the "inferior twin" provided its own interesting character arc. Neil's sacrifice was always meaningful, and that doesn't change just because a look-alike is piloting his gundam.
Oh boy, as a 00 fanboy, I love this review! It's pretty much in line with my views on the 2nd season! I have a lot to say, so here goes. 1) One thing I got from Saji's character is that he is like a variant of the typical "pacifist" in the Gundam franchise. Yes, the scenes with him being preachy and him getting hung up on Louise can get pretty redundant. But what I like about him is that later on, he accepts the reality of his situation and focuses on what he can do. 2) Celestial Being’s Gundams are stronger than most of their enemies, but they still had to hustle their way through their missions cause’ the odds were against them. 3) Yes, 00 Raiser is crazy strong, but not even it could solve every problem. The Elevator debris episode is one example.
My favorite part of 00 was the movie Awakening of the Trailblazer. I loved the concept of a Gundam series where the enemy was this unknown actual alien force. Sure, it may not have been the best narrative in the franchise, but it was something totally new, and evened the playing field in what had become (like many anime) a race among the protagonists to see who could have the most deus ex machina absurd powers.
Kanon Matsubara mmmm. I would say the deaths aren’t forced. It shows how Tekkadan traded their ideals for ambition. And it ultimately destroys them. Its a grim take on the concepts of Gundam. Still Much like 00 S2 I do remember enjoying IBO S2 less than S1. But again, it doesn’t feel like such a downgrade. Then again it has been a while since I saw it. May have to refresh.
@@LFdonohue94 I wouldn't say the deaths were forced either, but it felt like way too many were done just for the sake of it. I personally think they could've saved most of them for a huge blowout.
@@nedinnis6752 Not to mention, Mari Okada Literally changed the plans just because she got boner over Gaelio's voice. This is real as she really admitted it It's Seed Destiny all over again
i think my favorite part about 00 season 2 are the portions where it just refuses to let up on the pace, like how the desperate memento mori raid immediately leads into the team being pursued while on their back foot.
@@Revkor the first half of Destiny was rather decent. However in my opinion it became a bit of an incoherent mess in the second half. Honestly the series struggled on who was the main character.
One thing I liked about the first season is it felt very grounded and real with it's aesthetic and setting. It was still in Anno Domini. It touched on a lot of issues that exist in our own world and felt very familiar. It made the series really stand out compared to the far off and unrecognizable distant future. So it was kind of jarring when a lot of that felt like it was dropped in the second season. The show just got way more over the top and wackier. The second season just felt kind of alien to the first. I get this is mostly a matter of taste, but I feel it is important if a show presents itself a certain way there are expectations it would continue that way. Not morph into something radically different all of a sudden.
I'll just say that as someone with a history degree and a greater degree of interest in geopolitics than the average person, I didn't feel like season 1 was particularly familiar. I think the entire obsessive middle east subplot in season 1 was the product of an extremely superficial understanding of middle eastern politics, with no understanding of the history of the middle east. The princess/Azadistan subplot was outright agonizing and alien to me. The only thing I can say is vaguely recognizable is the existence of three power blocs roughly analogous to the EU, the eastern bloc (assuming China was able to subjugate the entire Asian continent), and the US and satellite/clients in the western hemisphere. That's about it. The premise of superpowered Gundams showing up all of a sudden that can wipe out the global military was completely ridiculous on its face, as was the whole Aeolia Schenberg 200 year scheme nonsense, all of which led directly into season 2's ridiculousness. In fact, one point they were making was that the unification of humanity can lead into a conglomeration of abusive state power with the rest of the world having no ability to resist, and there's a lot of commentary on the self defeating or futile nature of Schenberg's plot in season 2. I found that more believable than the entirety of season 1.
I wondered why he came out to fight & had a piece of tech the heros had and not explanation why he had it. I know the GN particles people had but the other thing HE just had
@@Sonicfalcon16 he has a scratch built Trans Am system made from theoretical data of what the 3rd gen Gundams did. His is also made out of the limitations of the GN Tau drives( with the Inovades the drives self destruct unlike the sputter out like the graham version).
Boofire 00 as a whole it also helped as it follows a very old sci-fi concept. Look to Asimov's foundation series of books to see the parallels. As Ribbons is the Mule of the story.
Anyone willing to bet that those who harp on the abilities of the 00 Raiser are also ardent defenders of The random overpowered newtype stuff in UC, such as with the Zeta and Nu or even the random and overpowered stuff from G-Reco. I have seen people, and I kid you not, say that 00 is trash simply cause the 00 Raiser being able to produce a huge ass beam saber or that the Regnant is able to curve it's beam. Meanwhile they say nothing energy barriers coming out of nowhere or using the ghosts of the dead to attack a heavily armored opponent, or pushing a huge meteor moving at terminal velocity out of the atmosphere (against it's direction of motion I might add), or having random space beam tree's and the like, or mechs going JoJo or Dragonball on their opponents.
Because those hax only amps up the power of the mobile suit except if you have psychoframe which is full brain ded but the thing is that 00 Raiser's abilities are not hax.
On the topic of the power scaling, at least in my opinion, it wasn't so much the 00 Raiser becoming all-powerful and more of how the rest of the Gundams couldn't keep up. One of the things I loved about season 1 was the teamplay and tactics they employed because each Gundam was specialized for a particular purpose and needed to coordinate with each other for larger scale operations, even with the technological advantage. In season 2, this dynamic kinda disappears throughout the show. I'm aware the 00R is equipped with the Twin Drive system which exponentially raises its particle output, but seeing Setsuna just Raiser Sword a Memento Mori away _while engaging_ the Empress mobile armor _while escaping orbit_ launching from the Ptolemy after _just recovering_ from a gunshot wound (don't forget he had a round robin with Saachez and Mr. Bushido while still bleeding before that) when it took the literal combination of the entire rest of the team to destroy one (Arios powering the Ptolemy with Trans-Am, Seravee blasting a hole through the outer armor while covering with the GN Field, and the Cherudim using its bits to guard the Ptolemy while taking aim) kinda downplays and undermines everyone else. Not saying they were useless, but the gap between them and Setsuna just becomes too apparent. He definitely didn't reach Jesus Yamato levels of OP-ness, but it's definitely a jarring disparity from what was first established in season 1. One of the things I think could've been done to rectify/avoid the power scaling problem altogether was to emphasize more on Sumeragi's battle plans. In season 1, while the Gundams were far superior in performance, they didn't just go blindly into the battlefield and button mash their way to victory (though arguably they could've); Sumeragi and Veda still had to cook up a detailed battle plan with accurate predictions to guide the Meisters to victory. Perhaps if they did more of that in season 2, they could've maintained the threat of the Tau Drives without the Gundams' abilities becoming too ridiculous. Not saying there weren't any as the Allelujah Rescue mission and (1st) Memento Mori takedown were good examples, but later on, the fights just ended up becoming "go here", "shoot down as much as you can", "hold out until ", or a combination of that. Granted, they were operating without Veda in S2, but we've seen Sumeragi going beyond just parroting whatever Veda says as early as S1 (not logging the Thrones' data into Veda, making a back-up system for the Gundams in case their link to Veda gets cut).
I still found it less corny than watching Dynasty Warriors Gundam, e.g. the first two-thirds of season 1 of 00. You can expand on your complaints on the power scaling in season 2 all you want, it doesn't help season 1 look any better by comparison.
Hard agree. 00 is a top 5 Gundam series for me and have never really understood the hate. One caveat: these are the lightest skinned Arabs I've seen since Magi or Qatra.
The blond guy in the samurai armor who got a quick fight with setsuna and just left when it tsn out of trans am was a weird "we forgot about this character" moment
I hated him because there was more important things to do and he just comes in trying to fight like none of that mattered. He would do things to piss off MS teams like not supporting anyone only to fight the 00. Where the fuck was he when the orbital elevator fell apart on a metropolitan area.
I liked both seasons but season 2 has a different feel compared to season 1, i didn't like how they did lockon & basically just used his twin as the replacement
Season 2 clearly shows a world where the Earth Federation is holding its own vs the Gundams. They're being hunted and often just BARELY escape after taking some serious hits.
Nah to be considered ‘bad’ it needs to be Seed Destiny levels of bad. I actually liked second season and btw i didn’t even know there was a bit of hate for this show until this came into my recommended lol
the other thing that i like about 00 (aside the real world applications, the messages, the mecha designs, and how the narrative is literally flipped: the main characters being overpowered as opposed to the enemies being overpowered) is how the sequels are very much connected to each other, unlike other stories with 2 seasons with a movie, where the first season being the main story and the 2nd one being just a sequel having the same narrative as the 1st one, and the movie being all the same with the previous anime. Here, it's not the same. In fact, it was split into 3 different categories. as we all know (if you learned english) a story is split up into 5 different categories: introduction, rising action, climax, falling action, and resolution. here it was split up in a very unique and cool way. Season 1 is how the story began, and not just on what their motives and characters, but also on why the world is like that on season 2, the introduction. Season 2 is where the conflict actually starts, which basically covers the climax up until half of the falling action. And season 3 is the result of the said conflict, with having one more conflict that has to be solved before entering the resolution and conclude the story. In other words, the reason why i loved 00 so much is because of how the story is really thought of very well, and unlike others that had sequels that is very repetitive of each other. and to me, although it did have some downsides like some scenes being rushed and the inclusion of innovades (although don't get me wrong, the innovades are the best villains on s2 that the charactesr have to face) and aliens, the story and world-building wins it for me. yes, although i like that 00 would get another sequel so we could get to see 00 again, and finally see 00 having the recognition it needs, i still think we don't need a sequel for it. The story already conluded after the movie, and even if it would be a different story within the 00 universe, i thought it would just be repetitve again, just like what i mentioned above. But hey i think it would be enjoyable nontheless, if it did air.
At least for me, it just felt like 00 S1 was great, and then S2 kinda just devolved into normal gundam stuff. I don't think it's bad by any means (except for the gn particle nonsense) but I just felt like the season 2 could have been so much better.
Wait, you realize there's a sequel movie? And quite good at that I think but it drives UNDERSTANDING theme to the absolute extreme. I also don't dislike second season, it's just that first one with its politics and intrigue hooked me, second one with emphasis on relationships seemed lackluster(also Graham turned into a parody of Char, moments like Allelujah and Soma on the island, Marina and children singing... ewww). But more fun MS's and Innovades were its saving grace.
Honestly in my opinion the 2nd season wasn't as good as the first season but it was pretty solid! I liked it. If you want a bad Gundam series, try AGE!
Hot take, AGE's Second Generation (Asemu's arc) is actually pretty good. Singlehandedly saved the series and kept me watching until the end - yes, even through Kio's arc - just to see how the Asemu/Zeheart rivalry ends, they did them dirty in the anime, though. At least the Memory of Eden movie gave us a more passable ending to their stories.
This is probably the second time a second season did the same thing to the Gundam fandom as each alternate continuity does. Personally, it was... above average.
It's not bad... But it didn't feel like Gundam 00 Season 1. I also rather liked S2, but felt it might've been better suited for another show considering how Super Robot it became... Shame the Braves series is cancelled. EDIT: That is to say... The themes and the plot isn't my problem with it, it's how everything will eventually be solved with everybody becoming Innovators, and how suddenly the 00 Raiser can teleport, has a moon-sized beam saber, and completely dominated the battlefield.
Gundam did that before. It was called G Gundam, then later Gundam Build Fighters. It was strange they did it in a show with a more serious plot and relatively grounded universe without going full super robot from the start.
Just out of curiosity boo fire will you be doing the oo Gundam series finale movie next, cuz I think that movie really 'jumps the shark' when it comes to the plot of the entire series?
Main problem with 00 s2 is they brought Lockon back and the whole Anew thing was infuriating. I loved Lockon, he was one of the best characters but it felt cheap to have him back.
@@GMM5Art Not really. Unlike Neil who was very confident in his skill, Lyle has an inferiority complex. Lyle also a lesser sniper (but still very good) compared to Neil and more of a gunslinger.
Very good video, I agree with Saji not being that interesting in season 2 but I'll go one further and say that Saji exists for the sake of Louise, and in my opinion that's completely fine because, in my view, Saji is just a vessel for the viewer to impersonate themselves on. Both Saji and Louise are average kids with life goals of their own but everything goes out the window because of a war they should have no part in, Saji goes on to follow his life goals and work at the space colonies but Louise becomes something more. Losing her family pushes her to become a MS pilot herself to seek revenge. Saji in both season 1 and season 2 remains a normal dude who just wants the war to stop but doesn't know nor has the power to do so, however, circumstances lead him to come into contact with those that can and again, circumstances lead him to join those people but he ultimately still remains a normal dude, just like the viewer. The reason why for me personally season 2 was so strong is because of how strong season 1 started, giving life to many threads and stories and they all neatly wrap up in season 2, Louise's revenge plot line was especially impressive to me considering how it was planned across 2 seasons and you get to see the toll of her new way of life getting to her all the way up until the final realization that it was all for nothing anyway, even stronger how they used the most satisfying death in the series to hammer home the "revenge isn't good" point. And sure, the point was already made, with other characters but those characters are people of war, they see death all the time. Louise on the other hand isn't, she's just a normal girl in season 1, you would never have guessed she would've turned into what she turned into in season 2 and helps drive home how far a normal human being, with no ill will towards anybody, could completely change because of hatred. Also yes, innovades are real freaky and weird AF.
Now that you mention that 00 is pretty much inspired from IRL events which were pretty much hot topics at the time it was airing, I now can't help but wonder if the next Gundam series will tackle biowarfare or something...... :P
I will say this while ham fisted at times I do love Saji and Louses time in 00 S1 they were our important POV characters showing us another view of what the people just trying to eek out a life in this world think of what the major named characters are doing, which makes the tragedy hit all the harder , and still like you said fits the core message of gundam feel like Sajis who redundancy is there for first time viewers or young teen viewers who might not be able to get the points with out someone beating them over head with it . I also personally lamp shade it with it being a cooping thing for Saji since unlike most of the other core cast, he;s just a civi that got roped into it due to his old neighbor saving him , Louses joined the military and was trained up, Saji is just some engineer who was in the wrong time at the wrong place , and got saved by the people he blamed for a lot of the suffering he experienced and saw in S1, so him needing extra time to processes and comes to grip with things, like verbally saying what he's thinking to reaffirm it kinda tracks
-started talking about innovades Me: But they should be wierd. They are "Artificially made" and Animoo in Aeolia's time is probably... wierd that it became the concept of their hair color.
Louise Halevy seems more like a twisting of the Maneva/Mariemaia archetype. She not only becomes the backer for the A-Laws but is being manipulated by Ribbons who is turning her into an Innovade in the hopes of making her the first conversion or even the first true Innovator. As for the performance gap... It really comes down to the fact that the Gundams were using true GN Drives versus the fake GN Drives. This meant their technologies progressed differently alongside the different focuses of their factions. Alongside the Gundams having been in development longer than the GN-X related designs. The GN-X III didn't see much improvement in performance over the GN-X. The third iteration was simply a refinement of the technology to be slightly more efficient and a bit cheaper for mass production. In fact the Advance GN-X outperformed the GN-X III but was deemed overly expensive for production. Its technology however was incorporated into later generations where possible. And honestly... The 3.5 gen gundams make sense as a logical progression from the 3rd gen. The 4th gen (Gundam 00 itself) makes sense in context of it being based on a theory inside the black box. Edit: Innovades are essentially a variation of the Elpeo Ple cyber newtype clones.
One of the things that didnt appeal to me was how all the main pilots survived season 1. For most part, season 1 ending looked like these characters were dead. Turns out they were all alive?! For Lockon who really really died, we have a twin brother to take his role. It undermines the tragic ending of season1 and gives me the impression that these people have untouchable plot armour. Thus within first couple episode, I just felt the creator is being lazy and the show is not engaging without much sense of threat.
@Waifu Kun Honestly could have got a new cast. No one grew at all in season 2. I feel season 1 could have just ended as it did. Absolutely not convinced, but definitely cheapened any kind of emotional response they were trying to pull.
@Waifu Kun Well, then why create the fake death. I agree that some of the character appeared to have chance of not dying. It is not impossible. And other than Setsuna , I didn't see much character development for other pilots. It could be said that there is character development as a whole for the celestal being in season 2 where they recognize the wrong doing of their past and rectifying it. However, you can still do that with loss of some of the existing members and new members learning their predecessors mistake. Like if Hallelujah was not in season 2, would the story be dramatically different? Also, if Lock On's arc was done then why did the creator decide to just adding lol but he has a twin brother. (Now I also remember my other complaint why are the antagonists alive as well? Specifically why is Ali al-Saachez alive as well. What was Lock on's last fight? For shits and giggles?) Revealing no body died just cheapen the previous experience and gives me the impression that the creator want to keep the already established casts instead of new one as the existing ones are more likely to be marketable. I will be honest after Mu La Flaga BS, I had no tolerance for "JK Not Dead" so that might have put bias on how I felt about the Season 2. However, I would have preferred if the creator either (1) just not bother with BS death scene and let the casts escape for season 2 (2) lose some of the existing casts and get new members to join the "reformed" celestial being
Why would you guys think that Alelujah was dead when the enemy captured him? Because I know within reason that the enemy prefer a POW to have him tell them about Celestial Being? An organization that is filled with secrecy that they cannot even trace? As for Setsuna, the Gundam is powered by a GN Drive, his cockpit is intact, and we even saw Exia in the first episode capable of atmospheric reentry without any physical shields. They could also kill off Tieria and make him pop vack in and tell everyone that he is an innovade and have numerous bodies so getting Tieria killed is far better than having Neil killed no? VEDA, the Super Computer deemed Neil's skills to be acceptable as a gundam meister. A Super Computer that got hacked by the enemy and that CB does not need a shitty pilot to train in 1 to 2 years or more and only find out that his goals and ideals does not match nor alligned with veda. Like Fon Spaak that only wanted to see how will CB's actions change the world even though he is an outstanding pilot but only to be sent to Team Fereshite instead. So how will you even find a Meister capable that can be trusted and not a shitty pilot? A Twin brother that is almost an exact carbon copy. This is not as shitty as you might expect because he is different than Neil in personality and skills. These traits are -He is much more of a playboy than the brotherly figure that Neil conveys -Someone that wants to not be called a Neil lookalike -Someone that never wants to be told that he is like his brother -Wanting to surpass him in some field of experties, in this case, sniping that he found out that he is more of a gunslinger than a Sniper -Shorter hair. And please don't tell me that "his skills are too convenient" that we do not even see this IRL... As for Setsuna, he is more open than he is in season one to the point that this little soldier boi gave a SPEACH that got Fedlt's heart tugging towards him until he became an innovator that he became wierded out of himself that he started to push everyone way from him again. (Plus he's probably wierded out of hearing someone's thoughts inside his head that he is not even thinking. Or the feelings that he feels that he is currently not feeling. (Most notably from Fedlt becauses she's head over heels for him and he does not know how to reciprocate that feeling. Remember, this is the guy that FINALLY understood that he got a crush on Marina and the reason why he spilled out that he's in Celestial Being TO FLEX for 59 YEARS! [2 years + 7 years timeskip and the 50 year timeskip in the ending of the movie] Yes. Setsuna is denser than Judau even if Haman's telling him that she loves him.)
Those arent fake deaths. Setsuna was still alive in Exia after the fight with GN Flag. Allelujah was captured for interrogation. They did explicitly show the deaths of Lockon, Christina, and licht. Allelujah and Tieria was still fixated on Soma and Veda respectively, but they did loosen up by the end of the series. Allelujah was able to accept Marie as Soma and Hallelujah as part of himself. Tieria was able to act more humanly without showing a strict standard on Veda as an innovade. Those are real, palpable character development. No, they didn't just add a twin brother for lockon because that brother already exists and was mentioned in season 1, it's not like they did an ass pull just because. And not all fights are fruitful, not all vengeful acts serve purposes. Lockon tried to avenge his family and failed, but his brother took up the mantle and finished the job. They didn't conceal anyone's death and reveal them to be alive in any means. Throne Zwei was explicitly shown to be damaged by the GN Cannon right below the torso and Ali's survival is more than likely to be possible with heavy injury.
I love season 1 but when I want to rewatch a random episode while eating or cleaning, I'll usually throw on season 2 because I thought the fights and drama were much more entertaining. Especially sumeragi and the focus on her tactics - I really enjoyed that in season 2
BOOFIRE191 Looked around and couldnt find it, sad bout that. Good choice for music tho, really works with your scripts format, thanks for the good content and getting me back into gundam.
Yeah tbh I have a really similar opinion to you on 00 S2. Saji & Louise is weird for me cuz Soji is alright but I ended up loving Louise. She feels almost like a better written Shinn to an extent. I absolutely love that cockpit scene you mentioned, and really Louise's development just hits a ton of tropes I super love. I can agree tho both their developments were pretty "blunt", but I think it worked a lot better with Louise than Saji. Innovades are def a bit wack, but I enjoyed having the "Newtypes" be the villain even tho it's been done before in Gundam. I didn't mind the Gundams being OP that much, it still felt like certain stakes were there to a degree. Overall just like you I enjoyed s2 more than s1, and yeah they probs used the word "understanding" way more than I care, but I do really love the overall message and theme of the show even if it's a bit cheesy at times. I look forward to your thoughts on the 00 movie assuming you watch that.
My one criticism of 00 is the fact that Aeolia Schenbenrg is such an impossible character to the point of breaking my whole immersion. Like, goddamn, for a series that likes to hammer dowm that god isn't a thing as much as this one, Aeolia might be the second best thing. Dude even has his own Lucifer.
Before watching this video, I wasn't even aware there was a disdain for 00's second season, I just thought it was a bit over the top and whacky, which felt earned due to the progression of the technology of the series.
So i assume the 00 movie is next then? Because i am really interested in your opinion on that one, mostly since it pushes the boundarys of gundam (and real robots for that matter of fact) quite a bit...
Well the whole point of Saji is to depict a normal guy who got involved into a conflict that he didn’t want to be a part of and showing his growth through battles while seeing this war going via another perspective. So in a sense the season 2 becomes a double-protagonist drama. However, I do agree that The execution part is problematic despite this difference between other characters like Lyle, Anew, Soma etc., and I feel like the issue is the screen writer tries to describe too many characters at once but then fails to execute each one of them equally well.
I'll be patiently waiting for your thoughts on "Awakening of the trailblazer" I hear alot of conflicting things about it and my thoughts on it are also a bit iffy.
I dunno about the Saji-Louise factor. For me it shows the effects of war on civilians. People who are otherwise living normal lives get dragged into it. Mere bystanders during the first season and active participants during season 2. It gives perspective how wars affect civilians that are thrown into it (unsuspecting or not). Marina shows what people with no power to fight in the war are affected.
So I noticed something. A lot of the so called flak by people complained about it usually comes from people who like Seed or Turn A, lol. I’m guessing they think it’s a copy/paste of Wing.
@@dontuspowerus1093 ok so you're telling me that Lock-on suffered injury despite not being as close to the GNX's beam saber and still losing an eye. However we have Setsuna who suffered minor injuries even though a GN beam saber from not a GNX but a Throne was placed next to his face. Now can compare the sabers size, where they struck and their energy output along with the injuries received both pilots. @Dontus powerus if your counter argument towards 00 haters is a reddit thread(basically a collection of meritless brainfarts)means you had none to begin with. As for this"rule of psychic(though I'm sure the word is physics)" you mentioned is nothing than an excuse to justify your ass pull logic of"it is possible that GN Beam Saber only damage metal and not living being". So by that logic you're saying even though Virtue vaporized an entire fleet the entire crews of each ship all came out unscathed and besides the beam sabers that damaged Exia and Dynames weren't the Celestial Being sabers that emit clean green GN particles but the sabers that emit red radioactive GN particles.
Not only that but Char's helmet is inspired by the Samurai Kabuto helmet. So you could say Graham LITERALLY became the LITTERAL mocking of Char in 00. :v
Dude Im glad you hit the high points of the anime. Idk why the series hit home for me but even you glossing over some parts brought up all the feelings I got from the show.
Season 1 felt a lot like a more serious version of Gundam Wing that really explored what changing the world really meant. Season 2 was just all over the damn place with clone people, naked white space mental time and a lot of talk about innovators without explaining what the hell an innovator was outright. And my biggest beef was Allelujah went from a great character to just a whiny bitch. There was literally one ep where he did nothing but press a button and say trans-am. Lock On being replaced like nothing caught me off guard and my friend had to show me the episode in season 1 showing he even had a twin brother I thought that was just pretty weird and would have made more sense for one of the bridge crew to slide into being a new pilot.
Lyle is such a mess of a character. I get his arc is supposed to be about finding his own purpose in life but he has so many plotlines jumbled in together without any of them being properly fleshed out that this doesn't fall through that well. The fact he just, casually exists even though he kinda contradicts Neil's arc doesn't help matters. I feel like instead of going with Lyle, it'd be a lot cooler if Feldt became the new Lockon. S1 did such a good job laying down a foundation for her arc but then S2 barely did anything with her and I think giving her more time to hang out with Setsuna and Tieria would lead to a lot of fun Neil-related talks while also letting her take over as the heart of the Meisters. And ditching Anew could instead lead to Tieria having more of a conflict regarding his being an Innovator because god he really needs it. I hate how little was done with him after the banquet.
Season 2 is nowhere near bad. But I would say it’s more oddly paced in parts than season 1 was and there’s maybe 1 or 2 character deaths or changes I’m not a big fan of. And yes Graham’s Mr. Bushido shtick was silly, something the movie of all things would actually fix funny enough, and I’m not a fan of how the Innovators look. But still I enjoyed it, especially after the excellence that was season 1. Also I love how the 0 Gundam was modeled after the original RX-78-2 and that they brought it and the Exia back for the final battle.
My biggest gripe about s2 was the fact that the team lost its roles with the 00-Riser being able to seemingly do everything better than the specialists. It could snipe, it can hit and run, and it brings the heavy firepower on top of being a melee monster.
@@gindias7119 the alien dialogue was possible with the quant T have a mini veda terminal. I was talking about how in s1 everyone had their roles on the team. setsuna was close range lockon long range hallelujah/allelujah fast atk and tierra heavy fire power/assault. S2 00 riser coud atk fast like alle/halle assualt like tierra and atk from long distance like lockon. So because 00 riser could do all 4 roles at once it made the rest of the team look almost useless or distractions while setsuna did all the real work and to me made s2 less enjoyable cause it took out some of the tension of the fights.
@@ez8195 the alien dialogue was possible because of the quantum system powered by the twin drive system. Veda Terminal helped Setsuna to take the load of information. But without the quantum field it cannot be done. The rest of the CB team still has their roles to play. Only with a slight change to Lockon because the second Lockon prefers to fight directly. 00 Raiser is shown to be an all-powerful CB MS as the product of its Twin Drive System and Setsuna's awakening as a genuine Innovator. TDS and Innovation give you as much.
@@ez8195 oh if you're talking about how enjoyable the show is then I rest my case. Because it's rather enjoyable for me that they decided to write it the way it is.
@@gindias7119 i was trying to answer both your points. A little rusty on the twin drive system and do remember thats what allowed setsuna to innovade. My main point was i loved in s1 each person had a role to play in battles and made things interesting. I thought 00 riser being so much better than the rest of the team it made things less interesting. Went from "how will the team pull out of this situation?" To "how will setsuna save the day?"
I didn’t even know season 2 was disliked. I’ve only watched IBO and 00 so far and honestly 00 was amazing. I liked season 2 more than 1, and the movie was awesome as well. Would love a third season
I think you hit the nail on the head with Saji and Louise. They honestly felt superfluous for about 75% of the time they were onscreen (minus Saji floundering during early Season 2 and nearly getting Celestial Being killed. Those moments felt very natural). I do think Marina Ismael is just as big a problem in that regard. She barely has any agency, and her only contributions of note in S2 are to write a song that changes Setsuna's mind about killing Ali, and to be the setup for an adorable scene with Marie and Allelujah. She's a diet Relena Peacecraft, except Marina never started acting being proactive (the thing that led to all of Relena's best moments). Now I really want to hear your thoughts on the movie.
Marina was more of a personal character for Setsuna than what Relana was in Wing. As even though she had agency( instilling hope in the background) her arc was protecting her own people from troubles without compromising her morals.
