The first half of Seed Destiny is actually enjoyable when it follows the main cast, the crew of the Minerva. However, it becomes rather awful when the focus shifts to Kira, and the crew of the Archangel.
The episode with the ZAFT forces fighting to try and stop the drop of Junius 7 is legit one of my favorite episodes in all of Gundam. It freaking kills me to think that it and Meer Campbell are in the same series
Lemme put it this way, Boo: Episode 28 is the drop off point point where everything starts to go downhill. And Episode 39 is officially the Point of No Return for the entire series. Let that give you a general idea of when to expect the nosedive to begin. Have some french fries ready, because there will be SALT. 😉
WackyModder84 That is an UNDERSTATEMENT once it hits episode 39. BOOFIRE191, that is the episode where we meet the abomination that is the Strike Freedom.
Nope, it was the writer and his wife that did the deed, not the fans. The shit that goes down behind the scenes is mind-boggling horrible. We're talking that the Japanese VA of Gundam SEED outright stating that she will NEVER go back to SEED ever again. Almost all of Kagalli's character derails in DESTINY? That was because the writer was vindictive when the VA for Kagalli had the 'audacity' to complain! The writer was insanely pissed when the Alpha (or was it Z... there are far too many versions to keep track of) series of Super Robot Wars did what the writer did but BETTER! From what I've heard, that writer tried to take a wack at Super Robot Wars because of it! Gundam SEED and SEED: DESTINY shared the same writer and said writer was BAD from a writer's standpoint. That ass would always get the script into the studio at the last minute, making sure that said writer was the ONLY writer, loved going onto the soapbox, liked doing Mary Sue/Gary Stu BS, that sort of thing. It was outright stated that Kira and Lacus were all-but-SIs-of-the-writer-and-the-significant-other-in-name. It doesn't help that said significant other had a MASSIVE influence on where the story went as well...
I heard there was drama going on behind the scenes. Morisawa thought they Fukuda was cheating on him with Cagalli's Seiyu, and when Shinn's Seiyu got in the middle of it to defend Cagalli's Seiyu, Shinn got bad treatment in the series as well.
@@BOOFIRE191 It's kind of true that SEED was partially written by fans' suggestions, and the staff would think about how to incorporate the suggestions into the plot.
@@BOOFIRE191 I only heard this second hand from Gundam fans sadly enough, everyone who liked Gundam (even the Gundam SEED lovers) called SEED 'pissed opportunity' and 'wasted potential'. Then again, my primary forums were the Spacebattles 'family' of forums (i.e. Spacebattles, Sufficient Velocity, Questionable Questing, among a few others).
I am one of those that ended up really liking Shinn, even after things went off the deep end. I guess I am just able to syphasize with him thanks to having played Spec Ops The Line and its main character Captain Walker.
I like the *IDEA* of Shinn more than the character himself. He's a good set up for the main hero and the plot provides a lot of opportunities for him to grow into the role, similar to Kamile from Zeta Gundam or Loran from Turn-A. The problem is the writers shove all that aside so they can bring back Kira and Lacus despite their is nothing for them to do but repeat everything they said in SEED.
I will always say this: If the second half of Destiny wouldn't have happened the way it did Shinn would propably be one of my all time favorite Gundam pilots. There were just so many great possibilitys for his story, but none of them ever came to be thanks in most part to the insane behind-the-scenes shenanigans that in the end killed seed-Destiny as a whole
Shinn's a bit of a blood knight throughout the series. It's understandable since he's still got A LOT of anger with him over his family and tearing through enemies is his way of dealing with it but it's also that anger that makes him unfairly lash out at others like Cagali. It also doesn't help that he allows Rey to influence his decisions rather than making them on his own.
Finally, someone who really appreciates Mobile Suit design doctrines. I'm kind of a mobile suit nerd myself and I really enjoy looking into things like development history, design doctrines and various other things. With UC there has always been a unified aesthetic within mobile suit design and, whatever era it might be, you can look at it and see where it came from, for example the GM, the Jesta and the Heavygun, despite being from different time periods they are still unified under one aesthetic, that first started with the GM and RX-78, it's a lineage that is kept through the aesthetic. On another hand I feel sorry for you. Not that you like Destiny so far, because I sure as hell liked it, but because that enjoyment will make the disappointment much harder hitting. If only Jesus Yamato stayed dead.
@@lordalpharius5928 he will rack of them kill count if he keep piloting Strike Gundam,he is very skilled on close quarters combat and medium range combat
And this is just the first half and I personally do like Shinn. The second half ... Anyone mention seeing any Star Wars parallels, as in deliberate similarities?
@@JeanLucCaptain superweapons are kind of a given; even in Gundam something is going to resemble the big superlaser on a small moon sized platform at some point. But when you have a room that almost looks like an exact replica to the Emperor's throne from RotJ, while Durandal is almost on par to Palpatine from the Prequels (minus the over the top acting); that's a little too on the nose.
First 22 episodes excluding 13-14, are PEAK GSD. Solid Military anime when its Minerva Squad focused, been saying this. Thank you for seeing it too m8✅✅✅
Ignoring my love-hate relationship with Seed Destiny for a moment, Durandal's plan to take advantage of Lacus's identity makes complete sense in my mind. She's a famous pop idol whose words brought moments of peace during the previous war. She's the daughter of Siegel Clyne, the previous chairman of the PLANTs and Supreme Council, and thus herself is highly influential with many connections. Most importantly, she's the war maiden who lead the terminal faction to victory during the previous war and without the influence her image had, their faction would never have been able to collect such influential people like Andrew Waldfeld and Reverend Malchio under a single banner even if their philosophical beliefs overlapped. Not to mention she was also engaged to war hero Athrun Zala, who in the previous war defected from his own faction to fight on the front lines for what he thought was right. Everything else to do with Meer was an absolute shitshow for sure but the choice to take advantage of Lacus's image I think made sense.
Because its victim-blaming mentality at its finest. Because people like to think that if they are put in Shinn's shoes they won't be that edgy. But we forgot that this is a teen with trauma fighting a war and trying his hardest not to let tragedies like him happen again.
Saw JH the Ian with that logic, doesnt that apply for every single one of them? Shinn, like everyone in these series, suffer from terrible writing. The focus on Kira is too much so everything gets thrown out the window whenever he and his team gets on-screen. Shinn was ruined due to that much like everyone else. Saying that he is a good character because "trauma" and "noble goals" is very superficial. Anyone that buys that as "deep characterization" is as gullible as those people who just take things face value. Shinn is a crybaby. Personal experiences like trauma does not matter. He is unstable and his unstableness worked against who he stands for. Meaning his personality does not reflect his values. Basically, remember when Kira reveals himself to be alive and says do not fight then proceeds to cut everyone down and cause somebody to escape to commit genocide? Yeah, that is Shinn ALL the time. His words, values and everything he stands for is completely spun around by his actions. A crybaby. "I dont want to fight you Athrun!" Then goes for the kill while Lunamaria's sister is on board as well. For example, in SD, when the Destiny plan was revealed, he went along with it. Another is when Athrun ran away, Shinn was more focused on killing him because Rey says so. Since were talking about Rey, he is also another superficial character. He has no will of his own. Both Rey and Shinn suck as characters.
@@stretchdandy "blah blah is a great character" sure.... a badly written story with badly written characters that never seem to expand o their archetypes and tropes somehow have great characters. "Hi! I'm Shinn and I am traumatize for losing my family and friends due to war so I'm going to be a hero to stop that from happening. Lemme demonstrate by committing genocide on my home place" GREEEAAAATTTT CHARACTER.
Traces of Kira being "always right" have been showing since he got the Freedom in SEED and it pissed me off that he was confused, depressed, and unsure of his motivations before his "death" on his battle with Athrun but right after, he spends quite some time to think in Lacus's place, is given the Freedom, he goes "I know the answer this war needs" which are things that are easier said than done. Then, he washed himself off any affiliation with both sides while he borrowed the Archangel and the crew to house his mobile suit. Sure, Archangel and her crew deserted but did Jesus see it coming that they would join him?
Rumor has it (and i cannot stress the word Rumor enough) the creator Chiaki Morosawa Hated both Cagalli and Shinn's voice actors and that's why things changed.
I was dumbfounded by the Zaft leader's sudden shift into full blown super villain after the Feds got their comeuppance. They forced his character to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
I've always preferred the Astray manga. From the cat stroking villain to the hero not killing anyone on the battlefield or even the random super weapons that pop up all over the place, the Cosmic Era just has an inherent goofiness to it that the anime choose's to try and play completely straight while Astray seems to just run with it and ends up being a lot more fun. The easiest example I can give is in the Promotional short for Astray R, Lowes cuts up an enemy MS and leaves the pilot alive and sat in the cockpit which is ridiculous but it fits with the overall tone, in contrast you see in this video Kira shooting all the weapons and limbs off the amphibious MS and it's being taken completely seriously despite the absurdity of it.
It’s actually nice to see someone point out some of the good in Destiny. Sadly it doesn’t end well. Btw if you hate Kira, you’re going to love it when Shinn goes apeshit on him. Also I notice your gameplay of Cross rays in background and can’t help to notice you have the flagship from 00. Good choice and I find it hilarious that you made Marina Ishmail into a Captain.
BOOFIRE191 really? Good to Know that. I put that into good use once I start playing Cross Rays...............when I get a gaming laptop with the right graphics card.😑 Anyways, good luck getting through the second half of Destiny. Because it would make you rip your face off.
@@therebelliousaxel8535 that proves to me that people behind Gundam loves Lacus so much they made a version of her but with less screen time, still become a heroine, and now given a good skill for the game. I like Lacus (SEED), but this is a bit too much
Fun fact: I purchased Cross rays as a Christmas present and was obviously super excited to play after the massive download was complete. I played a couple of missions and just leveled up my suits to develop into my favourite non main character gundam. All I had to do was complete the mission and..... my computers motherboard completely crapped itself and the laptop is no longer useable until it presumably gets repaired. No warnings, no sound, nothing
shraffe naqiuddin I actually prefer Meer over Lacus for a couple of things. One; is isn’t preaching. Two; She has a personality. Three; and the reason why Meer is better because she is actually helping the troops with moral support with her concerts while they are fighting against Space ISIS. While Lacus is doing NOTHING!!
If I may add something about Kira's kidnapping of Cagalli. From what I always gathered, the Orb Emirs especially the family of whom they wanted to Cagalli to marry their son Yuuna, intended to USE her and limit her power while using her Princess of orb reputation and her goodwill for their own. In a way, Cagalli unless she grew a spine the size of a colony with how she was handled in Seed Destiny, was doomed to be a puppet. Kira's kidnapping of her may have not helped things out, but ultimately I think the intentions were actually for the best. The later execution of actions post-rescue/kidnapping just didn't pan out. Now alternatively, Kira could have thrown his weight to make the Emirs back off and let Cagalli ya'know LEAD as a proper leader. Not in an outright 'do as we say or else' fashion but enough force to remind them, that Cagalli's brother will not tolerate them trying to manipulate her or drag their homeland into another war nobody on Orb wants a part of. Plus while revealing the Freedom and Archangel were on Orb would always put targets on their backs; knowing a legendary veteran ship and Gundam was protecting Orb would give both the Federation and ZAFT pause to try and force Orb to yet again pick sides against their will. Plus the more power-hungry Emirs would have pause to think of their actions carefully since it would be obvious they couldn't just steamroll Cagalli without racing the wrath of very, VERY capable war vets.
I found them beautiful alongside cgue, bucue and dinn and other uc derived zeon mobile suits. That mono eye head just looks more appealing after watching too much v finned protagonist machines
Why Tekkadan and Celestial Being worked but not Terminal (Archangel Crew)? (Massive spoilers for IBO, 00 and Destiny) All three factions are terrorists and questionable in their faction's legality. The problem with Terminal is no one (aside maybe from Cagali) has enough self-reflection to realise what they did is utterly insane, especially the part where they (spoilers) indirectly allowed Jibril to escape into space so he can murder more Coordinators. They have more war crimes but it will take a whole dissertation to describe and explain why those are war crimes. And in the end when they overthrew Durandal, it is made like they are heroes? What...no... Celestial Being worked because at the end of season 1 during the UN operation to destroy them, Sumeragi and her crew acknowledges what they did is a form of terrorism and they have to die for the world to unite. As for Tekkadan, Orga has doubts in where he is leading the party. I like this. I like it when my characters are self aware enough to have doubts when bad things happen because it makes them human. In Celestial Being's case, this self awareness sort of lead the Ptolemy crew to grow as characters. As for Tekkadan, they die. They paid the price for change. Things should have consequences, you don't go barging into a warzone and shooting up both sides and think that you are heroes. You are not, you are a terrorist. This is why the Cosmic Era timeline, with its interesting concepts trying to tackle racism and outgroup homogenity, fails.
I'd argue Tekkadan are not terrorists. That's certainly what Gjallarhorn would label them as but Season 1 Tekkadan were heroes trapped in a government conspiracy plot. The people they killed were trying to kill them. Season 2 they participated in a coup an attempt to outright overthrow a corrupt system that had negatively affected their lives. they paid the price for failing sure but Gjallarhorn was undoubtedly in the wrong the whole time. i'll give you that Cestial being are terrorists and Terminal is just to up it's own ass to see they aren't helping but Tekkadan did nothing wrong.
@@genisisbeing Im not saying what Tekkadan did is wrong. But their actions can be viewed as terrorism by the normal populace. To make myself clear, my stance in the Heinz's dilemma is you are allowed to take the moral but illegal action BUT you have to face the consequences. Not a law student here but, if we start to make exceptions in the legal code based on the justification of the perp, there will be chaos, the law, even if its corrupt is there to make sure society doesn't fall apart. This is why I like how IBO ended because they paid the price, its a bittersweet sacrifice. As for Gjallarhorn, unpopular opinion, I do think what Rustal did is justified (but I see the other members of the Seven Stars as bumbling corrupt morons). Rustal is dealing with a group of 'terrorists' that are unstoppable. Does Rustal have his own agenda? Yes, but the outcome is a happy one since he worked with Kudelia to bring democracy in. As for Terminal, they are exactly like the terrorists we see in real life history. They think that their actions are correct all the time and everyone else is evil. It might be bad writing, but Lacus' justification for war against Durandal is so flimsy that it makes real life terrorist's propaganda seem well reasoned. So whats my point? If you wanna write a group that fights against social norms, use IBO and 00 as examples but DO NOT ever use Seed or Destiny.
I've heard the studio or what ever put pressure on the writers to bring "Jesus" back. Sadly Kira and his gundam are absolute fan favorites in japan right up there with amazing characters like Char & Amuro and their respective mechs from Counter Attack. If I'm not mistaken the top fan favorite characters in Japan are Char, Amuro, Orga, and Kira in that order in most fan polls done by companies and magazines.
@@TheDJman248 I agree. Destiny was messed up on purpose due to the marriage issues of the person who worked on it. The same person also developed some serious physical health issues around the same time.
Every get the feeling your heroes weren’t heroes but people with a alternative motive. Especially Lacus Clyne. She goes from pop star to war rebel to supreme ruler of the plant’s colony after her father was murder. It’s like she played everybody to kill each other while getting hitch to the most powerful plot armor character so that she can rule without question once every other force is too weak to fight back because she got gundams and the ultimate genetic warrior on her side whose also a prince to a powerful nation.
Shinn is generally more preferable than Kira, Shinn at least dosen't have any ass pulling Jesus moment, he's just a guy filled with rage and it's kinda natural since he lost his parents, Shinn and Kamille are a little similar but not very uncanny, also in SRW Shinn and Kamille became buddies 😅 Luna is defintely one of my fav characters, the biggest problem for her is how she is treated in the production AND in the actual story, she's a really nice person and only wants to fit with other people, like most other would. All in all, get ready for the battle of Impulse vs Freedom... and after that.
One of my LEAST favorite characters in Seed is the idiotic XO on the Minerva. Right from the start he questions EVERYTHING captain Gladys says and never seems to understand what is going on.
Shin does have a lot of ass pulling jessus monets.as to his rage most people wopuld deal with it.to get rid of it.Shin never does that.No does he ever think why am i fighting.it allways my superiors say they are the enemy.so they must die.
@@thunberbolttwo3953 Well... Kira did it worse--- at least Shinn didn't came back to life 3 damn times?! And besides, it's not like everyone was revolving around Shinn, the whole Seed/Destiny Cast (excluding the Minerva crew) were cheering Kira instead, regardless of whether his actions are right or wrong is always justified. Kira does shitty ways to engage in battle--- he's specialty is called *"Disabling Mobile Suits"* now THIS is were he's Jesus ass pulling comes from, Shinn actually uses strategy AND is going for the kill rather than disabling mobile suits. And Shinn isn't as unstoppable as Kira.
@@Red.Decimo The idea that everyone aside from the miberva crew was cheering kira one lol yeah no..As to shin its easier to kill the pilot.Than to just disable his mobile suit.kira doesnt want to kill anyone anymore.that why he disables the mobile sauit.instead of killing the pilot inside.Which is harder to do.Acording to you its shity to disable the mobile suit instead of just killing the pilot inside.LOL yeah no.Oh athrun kira and shin all have seed abilitys.that makes them all at jesus level ability compared to normal pilots.Your just salty people like kira over shin.There was only one time shin used stretegy that was againt kira.the rest it was just kill all the enemys.Yes shin was as unstopable as kira.
@@thunberbolttwo3953 How am I salty? All I said is that Shinn is likable than Kira, I never stated "Shinn never deserved hate" all I wanted was to clarify some points here about Shinn. Secondly, you know that shit is true--- everybody is cheering Kira on, even when it comes to disabling mobile suits--- you have people like Kio Asuno from AGE FX who also disables mobile suit the same way Kira does, only for him to be constantly scolded to NOT disable mobile suits--- so yeah, disabling mobile suits is a terrible way of pacifist fighting. Loran and Banagher are good examples of pacifist fighter, they fight because they have to, and they understand that it's war that they are dealing with--- Kira is nothing like that, disabling mobile suits won't guarantee that they won't come back. If you ask me about whose the stronger Seed mode user between the 3, I believe that would be Athrun, but in plot-wise it would most likely be Kira. Coordinators THEMSELVES are totally fine, It's the SEED FACTOR that's bullshit here. Also, please learn how to spell-- 9 times out of 10 of your sentence speaks nothing but bullshit that you provide, dumbass. *Edit:* another L for you--- Shinn is not as unstoppable as Kira (granted he survived injuries but not death) Athrun proved that, how? Watch the Infinite Justice vs Destiny Gundam battle.
Shin is great....Spoiler Until they need to make kira mc again so he "has" to be the villain. Also apparent backstage drama but Iv never seen a proper source to very it.
And some would say big spoiler warring. Toss around like when the big ally baddy is using his weapon to slice up plants right and left Shine and his team are only ones that close and able to stop him,then it's back here is kira to save the day , Shine is very much used like throw away hero.
Reason why GSD beginning war works is rising stakes, falling colony, ZAFT wasnt the bad guys, Shinn & his skills was prioritized and Athrun was in the mix. It wasnt just 1 ship getting chased across the planet for 16+ episodes, kira crying being the victim every episode, and flays sole function being a manipulative harlot which was criminal. Instead, Luna is likable, Shinn is proactive and We got to see Zaft soldiers get shit done. And possibly if allowed to, Athrun could've been to Shinn that Woolf was to Asemu. That is what should've happened.
Daniel Nolan Yeah... his interaction with Jerid and most especially that one officer he attacked with the Mk.II before Quattro showed up really sums up my issues with Kamille 😓 And seriously Kamille, what was your plan after this? Were ya just gonna hide the Mk.II in your backyard or something? Cuz I highly doubt he was getting out of his one thanks to dear old daddy 🤦🏻♂️
Daniel Nolan true but at least with Amuro him getting into the Gundam made sense in the moment because there was a fucking Zaku right in front of them and trying to kill everyone Kamille just got in a Gundam to bully and almost kill some dude who bitchslapped him for attacking a couple titans officers for slightly making fun of his name 🤦🏻♂️
Technically, the moment at heavens base, the Destroy Team should steamrolled the main cast, chiefly because they should have just fired at each other non stop, the crossfire would have been blocked by their positron shields, while overwhelming the dingy beam schilds of the hero suits easily. The combined fleet dies after that. Let us not forget that Djibril and cohort had the time and spare cash to build what, like 12 or so of these giant mofos. AND a giant superlaser. AND a large army of mooks. AND a large anti air cannon, no, an anti air mountain. AND a fashion designer from boretown..
Its interesting to see another perspective cause I actually liked Destiny more when it switched back to Kira I couldn't stand Shinn at all. I mainly watched Destiny to see how the old cast was doing and barely cared about the new cast apart from a few like Lunamaria and Meyrin. But I will say I hated how they treated Athrun and Cagalli
It's interesting to see this perspective flip over a decade later. I watched the shows when they aired and pack then, at least among the people I interacted with online, tons of fans vocally HATED Shinn and like you were mostly only interested in seeing the continuation of the story of the old cast. Where there was a lot of negativity about the show as a whole, much of it centered around things like the direction of AsuCaga relationship. It's interesting to see how opinions changed overall as time marched on. I remember tons of people cheering when Shinn lost his spotlight and was cast as a villain to be beaten down; while people loved Kira, I think part of the reason for the protagonist switch is just how many people were vocally anti-Shinn at the time.
The point at 7:40ish you're making about the rockets- Lad, it was supposed to be a stealth mission, the suits were just back up. Exactly how the episode went.
fun fact: The designer of Strike is rumoured to be Horiguchi Ooakigami (the same designer who designed Sisqueide) instead of Junichi Akutsu, the change in reason is unknown, however people suspected Horiguchi Ooakigami might have a bad relationship with bandai and hence his name was being replaced
And this is why I read fanfic people who actually have passion and a working brain have done Gundam seed better than the people who made the actual show made it worth the time to read it.
Hello MR,Boo! I have an idea for you. Now hear me out here: Gundam Seed Astray! It is a short, easy to digest ova that actually feels good! Don't worry about any bullshit. Just enjoy a tale of Red and Blue vs Gold.
@@Sonicfalcon16 yeah but you start to notice it in small pieces at first such as the plot, mobile suits, themes, characters, characters ideas. For insane Shinn is based on Koui from 0083. They both are reckless and sense people, and they both are defeated at the end of the series. Both trash different variety of their Gundams and try to take out a top ace fighter, who is in a OP Gundam.
@@jcruz2357 Are you sure about that? If anything, Shinn feels more like if they followed JERID from Zeta but had Kamille traits (ie super angst, Four = Stella)
may i ask how? I've heard the Zeta comparison a lot (along with the SEED 0079 comparison) which i just don't see because the plot, characters and setting don't really add up minus a few superficial things like shinn and kamille being angry teenagers, but they are angry for completely different reasons. If you are referring to the colony drops in both series, a majority of gundams series do that... its a gundam trope like how majority of gundam shows needs some man in a mask char clone. I'm watching ZZ and again i am not seeing the plot or character comparison. Haven't seen 0083 so i can't say anything on that, but it just seems like a stretch to call the show a rip off just because they share the same tropes... since it is the same franchise!
3:15 THANK YOU! This has something that has always bothered me about ZAFT! I think my only other complaint about "early Destiny" is that the EA is kind of reduced to a joke. Say what you will about ZAFT's grunts, but they still got kills. The poor Windam, (outside of Neo's Windam) despite its upgrade over the Strike Dagger and Dagger L was a joke of a mobile suit and never got an on-screen kill or even performed that remarkably. I'm just glad its finally getting a model after all these years in May.
A huge damn problem is if you read about the ea grunt units... they actually preformed just as well as zaft and the fights were suppose to have been even according to the writen lore of the events however in the show and manga they treat the ea like a doctor evil henchmen beyond exposable and not trained yet they are supposedly just as well trained as zaft and capable of fighting against coordinators without struggling to keep up with them.... and this is why i think the shows are crap cause they dont make you feel like there is anything of value to any threat
I honestly feel how they handled amuro in zeta was perfect, they kept the focus on kamille but allowed us to learn amuro's fate, see him, watch him fight again, show us how hes changed but not let it interfere with the main cast same for hiyato, sayla and kai
Growing up with this show in high school and writing fanfics that wasn't yaoi for it, I used to defend this show...until the 2nd half of it came out and I was confused borderline annoyed. Apparently people on reddit STILL defend the writing of this show.
your timing is impeccable, i just finished Destiny like two weeks ago, and throughly enjoyed the first half. however when the writers turn the crew of the minerva into a lot of incompetent tools, while kira and lacus turn into the paragons of righteousness that were always right about everything, that's when i stopped liking it as much. have you ever seen Turn A Gundam? I'd be interested to hear your take on it.
You can blame Durandal for the return of Kira & co. He was the one who sent assassins to kill Lacus so that his plan can go smoothly. Unfortunately for Durandal, the Archangel has the power to retaliate.
we had a similar sentiment with the seeds though the details are different. it took like a year or six months for me to get through seed even though i liked it. but i blazed through destiny in a week or two and really enjoyed my time with it.
luckily i watched dub so the whole show is just all that Ed & Edd gag type beat, helps that both Kira and Athrun being voiced by the same folks who did Ed and Double D's voices respectively
I was never a fan of seed or destiny but god dammit japanese loves it a lot it seems which is shame. Would be interested to hear your thoughts on After War Gundam X as i dont think (could be wrong) it gets much love and i remember enjoying it.
@@BOOFIRE191 Appropriately enough, the Gundam X cast was playing in the background, with Tifa surprisingly using a mobile suit, fascinatingly, the Bertigo. Foreshadowing!!
X is good, but I think it's weaker than it should be in the end. It cannot be overstated just how much the mid-series cancellation cripples it. What should've been a more fleshed-out space arc is rushed and compressed, leaving the SRA and the rebels underdeveloped. And the Frost brothers go from awesome villain duo to a joke when their secret motivations are hurriedly laid bare without any real foreshadowing. X is a great watch, but the ending plot arc had me going "that's it??" It deserved way better than it got.
@@comradefreedom8275 The ending itself is fine, and does manage to wrap stuff up...I just think it needed a lot more lead-in. I feel like the show really rushed to the ending just to deal with losing what could've been a full 50 episode count, and it suffered for it. Don't get me wrong, I like X. I just prefer the Earth-based arc way more than the rushed space one. Their Char clone also lacks a lot of development because of that story compression, compared to Jamil as an excellent fleshed-out Amuro-analogue.
Wait till Berlin. Then it all goes to hell in a handbasket. And after Angel Down, which I must say is one of the best Gundam fights ever put to screen it goes to utter shit. Then once Kira gets the Strike Freedom, we've gone round that bend into fucktard land. Watch, it will happen. Oh and you like Shinn at the start, but after Angel Down, Shinn will become Anakin Skywalker.
I don't really understand why everybody thinks that the story is about Shin or the Minerva 🤦♂️ Think about it, which character is trough out the series always in the center of the story... In my opinion it's clearly Athrun, regardless if on board the Minerva, the Archangel, in Orb or on the Plants. It's not that Kira takes the spotlight from shin, but that the story follows it's main protagonist, Athrun and leaves a normal protagonist in this case an antagonists behind. Athrun is the narrator and he is the one who is still searching for his answer. Maybe the misunderstanding steams from the series' name, "Destiny" and every idiot thinking that that makes Shin automatically the hero. But on the contrary he is one of the antagonists which until the real "hero", Athrun beats the shit out of him, doesn't waste a single thought about any consequences and follows his target of romance Ray's and his idealised hero, Durandal's every word. Shin has no character development what so ever, because he is self-righteous from the beginning until the very end and almost kills Luna-Maria in a blind self-righteous tantrum. Please try to Borden your view a bit and look at the story and not just at the title. For me it was clear that Durandal was up to no good the moment I saw this self-righteous Kid being allowed to pilot not only an MS but a Gundam. Think about it, he disregards orders, frees a prisoner of war, harms comrades in the process, is immensely disrespectful to the head of the state of another at that time neutral nation, shows disrespectful behavior to his superior and has to face no consequences. Yes he is a good pilot, but ultimately without the prep work from Ray he would have his ass kicked by Kira and has his ass man handeld by Athrun. Shin is through out the series nothing more than a spoiled brat and his role is only to show that following blindly your believes, disregarding other opinions can leed to sever consequences. Think about how many people died at the hands of this prisoner he freed, how he killed the Orb military commander who previously saved his live or how he almost killed the sister of Luna-Maria. Yes Kira is somewhat of a Mary-Sue but that doesn't change what Shin is. On the contrary, Kira shows clear remorse when faced with the consequences of his doings, such as killing Walltfelds wife or after he killed Athruns friend and co pilot in rage because his friend was killed earlier. During the battle of Alaska Kira remembered how the shuttle full of civilians was shot town by the Duel but controlled his anger. Shin has non of such development as a character. He is emotionally unstable and no organization should put someone as him in a position of power period!
While I do agree that even early on Athrun has more character focus than Shinn, especially when outside of combat, so it would be erroneous to single Shinn out as the main character at any point, really, it's not like the opening credits for the first three quarters of the series, and being the focal character for the first scene of the entire show, aren't trying to sell Shinn as the protagonist. Also, I wouldn't say that Shinn has no character development or depth at all. Yes, he's narrow-minded and has anger management issues, and those flaws only get worse as the series progresses. The very fact that he gets worse is itself a form of character development, but that's beside the point. The point is that those are not his only character traits. He may be prone to anger and disrespecting authority, but he's also prone to compassion and, at least early on, his fits of rage are balanced out by his attempts to save people, with or without orders. He could have left Athrun alone to die on Junius 7 when it was coming down and return to the Minerva as Gladys ordered, but he chose to stay with Athrun and help him destroy it. He broke rank to liberate an unjust prison camp. And when it comes to Stella, handing her back to Neo was the only way to save her life. And Shinn's attempt to calm Stella down and stop the Destroy's rampage peacefully would have *worked* if Kira stayed out of it like Shinn asked him to and didn't trigger her with the Freedom's sudden appearance. BTW, it's disingenuous to blame Stella's rampage in the Destroy on Shinn freeing her since Shinn gave Stella to Neo on the condition that he never make her fight again. Neo broke his promise and betrayed Shinn's wishes when he put her in the Destroy. Anyway, Shinn's tendency to disobey orders is more often than not portrayed positively in early Destiny since it tends to accompany his best moments. One of the problems with later Destiny is that his compassion and tendency to screw the rules if it means doing the right thing is forgotten. After Operation Angel Down Shinn, quite frankly, starts following orders that he shouldn't. Early Shinn wouldn't have shot Athrun and Meyrin down just because Rey told him to; Athrun had become like a brother to him and Meyrin is Luna's sister. And Shinn would never wish the pain of losing a sibling on anyone, especially not himself or one of his friends. Early Shinn would also defy the Destiny Plan outright rather than support it despite being uncomfortable with it himself, which Shinn is shown to be on-screen. It's a paradox to say that Shinn doesn't follow orders as well as say that Shinn listens to everything Rey and Durandal tell him, and it's a problem with the writing that Shinn switches from one extreme to the other without a natural progression. Oh, and that bit with shooting down Athrun and Meyrin? Shinn does show remorse for it. He apologizes to Luna the first time he sees her after the fact and they cry together over it. Granted, Shinn's guilt about killing Athrun is a dropped plot point that doesn't go anywhere (like a lot of things in Seed Destiny). Both their fights after this just have Shinn scream "traitor!" at him without any relief that he's still alive or trying to clear up his confusion about why Athrun and Meyrin defected in the first place. Shinn's actions from Episode 37 onward are monstrous, certainly, but they're the result of inconsistent characterization caused by the writing staff not paying as much attention to him (and possibly a deliberate attempt at character assassination because Kenichi Suzumura complained about Morosawa's overdue scripts). They're not evidence that Shinn was somehow irredeemable from day one. And the idea that Durandal wanted an unstable loose cannon to be his minion (which I presume is why you thought Durandal was up to no good just because Shinn found his way onto the Minerva's crew at its ace pilot) doesn't make a lick of sense. Durandal needed a powerful but loyal servant who could enforce the Destiny Plan without question. A loose cannon willing to disobey orders to follow his heart, whether that heart is filled with hatred or compassion, is the exact opposite of that. Durandal demands control and Shinn is uncontrollable. Durandal's endgame hinges on genetic determinism, nature, while Shinn's personality is driven by his experiences, by nurture. The Destiny Plan is textbook Lawful Evil while Shinn, pre episode 37 anyway, is Chaotic Good. If Durandal really was planning on Shinn being his enforcer for the Destiny Plan the whole time (which he totally wasn't, BTW. It's obvious that Athrun was his first choice and settled on Shinn as a back-up), he's an idiot. Because Shinn is diametrically opposed to Durandal's endgame in every way. Or at least he would have been were he written consistently. As for Shinn passing ZAFT's psychological tests and getting onto the Minerva to begin with? I think it's just that Shinn wasn't anywhere near as volatile during his training. At the very beginning Shinn only really gets pissed off when he's talking to Cagalli or when fighting the Extended trio who stole Chaos, Gaia, and Abyss. Otherwise he's well-adjusted if a bit of an introvert. Seeing an ORB representative and the threat of another war triggered him and brought two years' worth of pent up angst to the surface.
@@DracoFlame67 Were he written consistently...🤷♂️ Why do all supporters of Shin always come up with this gibberish about the writing staff? As if that would matter... It doesn't matter if *you* think that Shin was destined to take another route in his character development or not, because it doesn't change the outcome and I'm not going to debate what ifs. In the end of things Shin *is* this self-righteous not quite so lose cannon. Shin was Durandal's first choice until another hopefully better canidate presented himself (Athrun). After the presumably better choice turned him down he settled for the previous canidate. Why he suits Durandal's purpose? Well because he he anti war and in this standpoint doesn't question the means in achieving lofty goals such as everlasting peace. Does Shin show remorse? Yes, but only for these he knows. As such the motives of his remorse are more then questionable considering his "empathy" for Stella and the relationship between Luna-Maria and the person he supposedly killed Meyrin... Where is his remorse in literally killing thousands or other people and other people he knows? Why he is so full of hatred towards Athrun? Well, he dares to question his moral high ground. How can I not make shin responsible for the dead people in Berlin?(zaft only engages Stella in Berlin but the effected area is much bigger) Let me get this right... Shin wants to save Stella and gives her in the hands of the people which have dinner that to her?🤦♂️🤦♂️ Kira is responsible for this because he hadn't stud back? How was he supposed to know that eavan the sight of the freedom was enough to trigger her in to full berserk mode?(btw as seen later in the show to "some" people the impulse which Shin pilots at the time can in a fit of rage be mistaken for the freedom but that is another what if) I can make him eavan more responsible than the people making Kira responsible for orbs alliance with the earth alliance because the later in the story doesn't seams to be avoidable and the marriage between Cagalli and Juno? Would only cement this idiot as the state of the head and so Cagalli at least remains the highest authority. If one were to be blamed for orbs alliance it had to be mostly Athrun but yes also Kira and this military officer which name I've forgotten 🙈 Because they left her a 18? Years old girl Handel a freaking state. Kira is to blame for retiring with his lover and seemingly running an orphanage rather than lending his sister emotional support. The same goes for Lacus, Captain Marun and Andrew Waltfeld. At the moment they had to abduct her from her wedding it was sadly, partly to their fault, the best thing they could have done.
@@DacusMalus1600 I'm not going to continue debating you on the new points you brought up. I'd just like to explain my previous post a little more. I'm not really "defending" Shinn as much as I was just giving an argument as to how the writing deteriorated. Whether you like him or hate him doesn't really matter to me. Shinn's later acts are inconsistent with his earlier ones because his defiance of orders disappears without explanation. And I didn't make up the bit about the writing staff; it's not a matter of debate that Morosawa handed in her scripts late and Suzumura complained about it. That actually happened. What is a matter of debate is whether or not that behind-the-scenes drama influenced the writing of the show. And as for Durandal's plans, there's room for doubt regarding how much oversight he had on the Minerva's development and crew selection, so he may not have been directly responsible for giving Shinn the Impulse in the first place. He didn't know how many mobile suits the Minerva was stocked with when he was on board at the start of the show, for example. His endgame may not have even relied on the Minerva to start with, since Chaos, Gaia, Abyss, and Savior weren't originally going to be on the Minerva and the only pilot who's a member of Faith prior to the start of the show (Heine) wasn't part of the Minerva's intended crew. The Minerva wound up being far more important than intended because outside circumstances and ZAFT's losses in the war forced Durandal to improvise. Actually... I'm not sure how much Durandal had planned in advance period. He was just as surprised as everyone else by the Requiem and Gladys' reaction to the Destiny Plan announcement (read: saying "Gilbert, no" under her breath) implies that she already knew about the plan but didn't think Durandal would go through with it. My interpretation is that Durandal originally thought the Destiny Plan was an unrealistic dream, and he said as much to Gladys off-screen at some point. But then he saw the Requiem in action, which gave him the means to enforce his every wish and so he revitalized the plan he had previously abandoned. Anyway, let's agree to disagree here.
@@DracoFlame67 Agreeing to disagree is very much an acceptable and welcome conclusion as it's the only rational thing to do in an argument about things every one precieves difrently✌️ Last point(only an addition not an argument) The concept of the destiny plan seams to be a fairly well known ideology to some extent. To at least former military within ZAFT as Athrun seemingly knows about it when Lacus tells the group about her findings.
Oh you might think Shinn is fine now but then he gets the Destiny Gundam and that’s where his intelligence takes a huge nosedive. Anyone who has seen Wackymodder84’s videos on the subject will know what I mean.
I love the google eyes on Kira and lacus. Lacus especially is one of the goofiest gundam characters ever right down to her long pink hair.shes aloof and I wonder if she really cares about others at all much like bubblegum from AT she seems like a good moral figure but I wonder..
Great video! Personally I never found Shinn super likeable after he eventually goes to far, but I loved him as a tragic antagonist to the old protagonists and the way you have some attachment to both sides of the battle. The rest of the Minerva crew I liked or was ok with, and again whenever the Archangel and the Minerva fight each other there's a special tension since you are rooting for both. One thing I really had a hard time with was Cagalli's on the early part of the show. Sure, she was always over emotional and politics can be ruthless and complex, but this is someone who fought in a war, commanded and lead the survivos of Orb and even at one point fought MS mounted in a jeep with a buch of guys with bazookas. I think you could have achived the same things in the story without making her seem so powerless, I actually believe that the Cagalli of early Seed Destiny wouldn't have stopped the war, just like Kira says, it's still bad writing since it would have made more sense for her to behave differently. While the plot with Lacus focuses a bit to much in the idol part, that's not what it's important about her, or at least not the most important. She is the daugther of a former Council leader, her father died and she was persecuted for wanting to descalate the war and oppose Zala's extreme objectives, she fougth in the Eternal and was there during the climactic battle and helped to stop either Earth or the Plants being destroyed. She being an idol is the cherry on top, but its her name and reputation what gives value to use her double as a political tool and propaganda. It also gives small foreshawing that the Chairman, who until that point was shown as a really moderate, sensible and well intended character, perhaps wasn't quite as perfect. So I'm personally quite ok with that part of the show.
2:00 the Strike Gundam was meant to carry the “all-purpose” adaptability role, or like, it has the combos of the other Gundams. That’s why it has all the packs: it has the sword striker (Duel), the launcher striker (Buster), and the Aile Strike (Aegis) packs. Then, the Duel is the melee/short range of role (originally until ZAFT modified it), the Buster as the long range, the Aegis is the middle range, and the Blitz (which you didn’t mention)is the stealth/covert role.
