Is Sonic Lore Actually Important? 

I feel like it was in the best interest of frontiers to bring up previous events since as the game shook up a lot of the canon by revealing the origins of the chaos emeralds, it’s good to remind people of other events surrounding the gyms just to let everyone know “this is still all part of the ongoing story“ so this isn’t a tears of the kingdom situation where they change so much of the Lore that it might as well be a reboot. Also with mentions like dark Gaia, it helps our understanding of just how serious of a threat the end is. A single attack from it was comparable to the power output of dark Gaia. The fact it’s able to leave devastation comparable to a world destroyer so casually helps emphasize the fact that it is a threat

In my opinion, Frontiers referencing past games was Ian's way of telling us that story matters again in the games and isn't just some throw-away Saturday morning cartoon plot where everything gets reset back to zero (outside of the wisps) like was when Pontaff wrote for the series where Eggman is suddenly out of the time limbo after Generations with no explanation on how he got out.

I believe even with the new lore team some things just feel like they don't click... Sure, Tails references the writing missteps with his character as an in-world thing he struggles with, but othe characters' strange behavior doesn't get acknowledged, or we get Amy having highly independent outings in the "classic" era which makes her whole Adventure arc feel redundant or less impactful if "canonically" she was already such a heroic character joining in with Sonic, Knuckles and Tails... That's why I for one would just find it cool to have Shadow be an optional side character in a Classic game like Superstars, maybe even alongside all the other cool "classic" characters, because the canonicity of that story is inconsequential... I'd rather have the characters acting properly, and not become bastardizations of themselves like they did throughout the post-unleashed era, I can sort the "timeline" and canon events in my own head through head canons if necessary... Alternatively, I'd be more than happy with a "reboot" that focuses far more on lore and storytelling, remaking the Adventure games and more properly connecting both of those games, alongside any other game that gets made, or remade, afterwards

The lore is important to the series. With that being said, I believe the fandom is so...obsessed(?) with what media is canon, what isn't, and where exactly they all fit, and it's consistency. For example, people on that cesspool of a site (Twitter) were up in arms about Ian and what he said about Sonic Prime's placement in the canon (it was after Advance 3, but not immediately after). Or how everyone was upset at how Shadow won't be a playable character in a Classic game because SA2 hadn't happened at that point. (I didn't want Shadow in a classic game either, but then again I think he's overrated as a character, so I might be biased). What doesn't help is how the games have treated the continuity. People often say how the 2010s just ignored it all together, but I say that's more of an issue ever since Unleashed and it seemingly got "worse" as time went on. Overall, I think the continuity gets in the way of the fandom's enjoyment due to how Sega/Sonic Team and its writers handle things, but also because fans sweat every little detail and if one small thing doesn't add up, it all falls apart for them. It's a mess, for sure, but nothing a little cleanup can't fix, right?

I just don't want them to pull a Freedom Fighters or Sonic X on the IDW characters, that's all. SEGA seems to have something against characters that aren't from the games themselves even if tons of people love 'em. They'll probably pull it on the movie ones (by that I mean Stone and Longclaw, the only ones that matter) guaranteed and sadly.

In my opinion i think timeline is the main issues... Because we had the timeline perfect after mania... Then forces killed it... And such.

Lore (and the characters) is what got me into the franchise (I started out with watching Underground and playing Battle, Advance 1 and Heroes) so I absolutely appreciate that it's been more important recently, that there are great attempts to make it make sense with as little contradictions as possible (like, say, Fang's names) As for questions like whether (classic) Shadow should or shouldn't be in Superstars, I'm of the opinion that it simply depends on how he's implemented. Unless you specifically establish it's a timeline where Shadow was freed earlier (which would be unnecessarily convoluted) or it's some timetravelling plot like you suggested, it wouldn't make sense to give him a campaign in the game and I definitely wouldn't like that. If he only was a skin for Sonic in the game (with perhaps some of his powers implemented) though? Yeah then I really don't care, go have fun with it. You don't see anyone claiming it messes with the lore that there are Lego versions of the characters running around, so why should it matter that Sonic looks like Shadow in the game or whatever Also, I agree with what you said about rather including characters that were playable even less in the past. Why not just use whoever makes the most sense given the scenario - or come up with scenarios to justify why you get to play certain characters? If anything that only makes the game better As for Frontiers' heavy emphasis on references, I can totally understand if people find it a bit too much (I personally don't mind, but I get where it's coming from). And looking back at it sometime in the future will probably strengthen that opinion too. But then again I rather have a little too much than nothing at all (like how Sonic never even *once* alluded even slightly to having had robot doppelgängers in the past when meeting Chaos Sonic in Prime). The references probably are too much on Frontiers' side, but I also think this is first and foremost to bring a lot of the lore back into consciousness rather than them trying to throw every reference to anything every at the wall in future entries. We'll have to wait and see how the next title balances it I suppose

1:51 Why should that matter? Make his inclusion non-cannon and you make two out of three people happy. Except for the Sonic fans who doesn’t think Shadow fits appropriately in the world of Classic Sonic. Like I want the lore to be consistent, but why can’t we have non-cannon game elements. Does that mean Sonic canonically went through Crisis City Hard Mode, Mighty and Ray were were there with Team Sonic during Mania mode, etc?

I’m generally of the position that continuous continuity should be an element of the series story, even though I have my gripes with Frontiers referencing Boom and IDW characters. That said, I do have major problems with the way it’s been handled post Generations. I think that Forces’ idea of Classic Sonic being from “another dimension” (timeline) was actually a good thing. We keep having new Classic games post 3&K/pre Adventure which don’t properly fit into one continuous timeline. Why does Eggman forget about the Phantom Ruby after Mania and not recognize it in Forces? Why is Trip completely forgotten about by the modern cast? TailsTube is hardly a band-aid fix to the problem with how 4th wall breaking it is. Most jarring of all, why does Classic Robotnik proceed to attempt the exact same schemes after seeing the failures of his older self in Generations? Not to mention that you’d think Classic Sonic would already now know the rest of the modern cast by the time he eventually meets them in their respective games. It would make so much more sense if Generations resulted in a separate branch of the timeline where the Classic series never ended. Games like Mania and Superstars would be exclusive to said branch that the modern cast does not experience. Classic Robotnik is extremely unhinged in Mania (Death Egg Robot in Green Hill Zone) and it would make total sense that he’s losing his mind from the fact he just saw that his older self failed to defeat Sonic for decades. The only explanation I can think of is that the Phantom Ruby somehow messed with everyone’s memories--although that doesn't explain problems brought about by Superstars. Either that or I don’t understand how time travel works. An explanation of any of this would be appreciated.

I have the idea that they should build upon previously established lore. For example, The Chaos Emeralds can create 7 deities manifested from the negative energy and Sonic would have to go Full Asura’s Wrath on them.

I personally don't think continuity should matter in Sonic games. The series is constantly evolving and changing with each entry so I think it would be better if each game stood on their own story-wise.

I still stand by it the Sonic's lore exists it can be important, but you don't have to know it nor learn it. You can if you want BUT you don't have to

it is, they messed it up in the middle portion of the franchise, since there's inconsistencies people dismiss it completely. It can work if you kinda ignore those plot holes from the era where they didn't care.

Funny enough, pariah pointed out the continuity errors within the series and according to him, they're all better off being their own separate universes because the games had always acted like bubbles of universes. (Also he said that true sonic died in 2010.) To me, the sonic timeline feels a bit more like the bubble universes or bubble worlds in HI3 but lined up into this horrible mess that we call "canon".

Lore is definitely important. Haven't played Sonic Superstars yet, but I think Shadow is more or less just another Sonic costume. Costume's don't add to the lore. All they do is serve as Easter eggs and references.

My problem is in the process of trying to tie the lore together, things are being retconned and changed, like in a way of feeling "I don't remember it that way, this isn't how it was in this past game" and I feel at this point it's too late to try to tie everything together without it all being a mess. Before there were things that were inconsistant, even during the 2000s, but nobody really questioned it too heavily. You could easily dismiss things if you didn't like it. Now it's having attention drawn to it, and it feels jarring. Also, superstars being put before adventure 1 doesn't really work. It doesn't make sense for some of the characters and their progression knuckles and sonic werent this close of friends yet, sa1 still had them a bit on edge around eachother, like, they had a rivalry and were kinda friendly, but not at the level as, say, heroes or riders and amy, sonic was shown to be uncomfortable when she approached him in sa1, he was nervous and backed away with his arms out, when in superstars he's fine being around her and has no problem. It just shows when trying to tie things together, it raises more questions, and alot of fans dont like the idea of changing past things to fit the mold of the "new consistant lore." Not everything is going to be able to tie together and make sense.

I find myself caught somewhere in the middle.... on the one hand I love to have more complex stories that may span multiple games or connect to random previous games. On the other hand, I've always liked that with Sonic you could kinda pick and choose which canon you liked most, what you personally wanted to acknoledge as canon and what you prefer to dismiss. Overall I think I do prefer the games to only loosely connect with each other, exceptions being mini game series like the Riders games for an example being more consistent and reliable on on one another. It's just that, after well over 30 years of barely consistant lore, trying to tie everything together without rebooting the entire series can only result in a giant mess....

What if in an alternate timeline, Sega of America kept Japan's Sonic designs and lores intact? And if both divisions had been better friends without barriers?

People need to f***ing chill, as long as Sega aren't contradicting themselves now a days or trying to hard to jam every single thing in one game just for nostalgia then nothing is worth complaining about.

So a lot of people in your comment have mixed opinions! I agree with the load that say lore should be consistent! Imo every franchise needs a lore! EVERY! Without story there's no spice! So in terms of Sonic, yes we're trying to declare if a piece of media is canon! I think it's not necessary to do this Mighty Emperor! Let's just leave the medias like Prime on it's own canon base! I have heard it being ahead of Adbance 3 is silly it's just trying to be forced into the main lore! It should be its own thing!

I'm sure you can understand I support the gradual emphasis on lore in Sonic. There's got to be some consistency in how the world and the characters are from game to game. I don't mind if some games are spin-offs, but things have to be explainable and have some relation to previous/future games.

We need to know the current economic and political situation of Station Square or else

I think lore and continuity makes a franchise more interesting. And the continuity breaks honestly bugged me in the 2010s. Such as Classic Sonic not being able to speak even though he could in the old days. And also the change from him being Sonic from the past, and then being from an alternate dimension in Forces. (P.S. I don't think he worked in Forces. Tails should have been playable instead.) However if SEGA insist on keeping the two worlds retcon canon to keep humans out, (Even though I prefer they keep em since they are a staple in the franchise.) then that makes Sonic X canon instead of the Adventure Games. (The only way to make it work.)

I think a timeline thing like generations can fix the timeline again.

8:01 correction on Sonic 1 and 2... Sega made CD come before sonic 2 via origins... Localization was mainly the problem... Thx sega for not making the teo games you were working on able to fit with and add to eachother... Yay...

The problem of lore team is that they are ultimately subservient to Iizuka who isn't good at storytelling or lore. They can fix and connect stuff, but then Iizuka writes the crappy story of Superstars and made the placement of Mania much more convoluted and then they have even more mess to clean up again.

The whole "Shadow shouldn't be in Superstars" thing is just more proof that this Modern/Classic divide should just not exist. If Superstars featured the characters in their Modern character designs and was the next game in the series timeline (instead of it being set before Sonic Adventure or in it's own separate "Classic timeline" or whatever Sega is implying with that game; I think even Sega doesn't know/care at this point) then you could've had Shadow as a playable character without messing with the lore. But no, we can't have that apparently. We can't have a 2D Sonic game with momentum based physics and the cure character designs because there are still Sonic fans out there who still can't stand "that stinky green eyed imposter Sonic!" It's ridiculous!

I actually don't agree that gameplay is the end all be all, sure its important but if it truly was the only thing that mattered then genres like RPGs wouldn't exist and people wouldn't prefer Sonic and Kirby over Mario. Just like books and movies I believe video games are a unique form to tell stories with its own advantages and disadvantages. (so yeah I'm really against Shadow ever being in the Classic Era) Regarding the Genesis Era fans, while I am part of that group technically, (Sonic 1 being my first Sonic game) thanks to the internet and old sites including Sonic Retro I quickly got into the SEGA!Sonic side of the fandom. Which I guess is part of the reason why I love Sonic's lore so much. As for Frontier's Cyberspace design I do wonder if that was more a result of the weakness of the boost formula (needing something to help prop it up) and time constraints.

In my opinion, yeah.

I want the lore to be connected

I’m writing this before watching the video. The lore isn’t important to the games. But so many people cares about the lore and characters that they should not try to break it. Or break it more.

The stuff outside of the games are canon, but negligible. They won't affect the games in any meaningful way.

I'm alright with Sonic games having lore and being interconnected... as long as they take some games out the canon. Mainly Lost World and Forces, as those games contain conflicting elements. Maybe also Unleashed.(Even though that game's actually decent.)

The lore dosent matter The branfing always mattered If u say human in sonic until colors its because thry are no longer part of the brand Same thing wth the broken moon , a broken moon isnt part of the branding anymore.

Can you please do a Sonic crossover where Sonic and his friends meet the Eighth Doctor?

Tails tube eps did help the sonic lore.

I personally think Classic Shadow can look good. I can easily point towards many of the fan made Classic Shadow sprites in the 3&K style for example.

i prefer it when light hearted media doesnt get into its own lore. self contained stories and fun are above anything else. its why boom is still the best cartoon. im the kind of person who rolls their eyes when a certain type of fan complains about continuity errors and such. i just dont care

Personally I do appreciate the lore although the Sonic series should be easy to approach for new players without having to do mass amounts of research for games that barely connect with each other.

Not really. “Cannon” is only used for marketing projects that aren’t the Mainline Sonic Games (Prime, IDW Comics, Dream Team, etc). People just don’t realize that these projects can stand on their own instead of being apart of a convoluted continuity.

The Answer’s Yes And No.

Yo solo dire que el canon de sonic es algo confuso y sin sentido intenta arreglarlo pero ya es imposible no tiene arreglos y ojo solo es mi punto de vista

1:51 I want to talk about this more. I really don't like the idea of Classic Sonic being Modern Sonic as a kid. It breaks things a lot more than people realize. To start off, Classic Sonic back in the day was used interchangeably between Adventure/Modern Sonic. From Modern being used in the boxart for Sonic Mega Collection (a collection of classic games), to Adventure 1 flashbacks using the Adventure designs instead of the Classic designs, Metal Sonic switching to his modern design in Sonic 4 despite being stuck on little planet from Sonic CD, and Sonic Adventure's Pinball minigame using classic designs for the icons. Generations even fits this concept to some degree. Whenever Classic saves a friend, they usually point out his appearance or refer to him as looking entirely different from the Sonic they know, like Knuckles teasing him for having a rounder belly (even though he should remember this from Sonic 3). The only one who seems to view Classic Sonic as younger is Amy, but that's probably just because he's shorter and cuter than Modern. Even Modern Sonic's last line for Classic Sonic "Hey Sonic, enjoy your future, it's gonna be great!" could be him saying that in a meta sense, as if he were talking to Sonic from 1991 in 2012. The whole birthday thing could be seen as the cast celebrating the franchise's anniversary and not Sonic's literal birthday since they never mention his age. All of this makes Generations feel like a non-canon filler episode, like the Dr.Slump crossover in Dragon Ball Super. It's not supposed to be taken seriously. Maybe this was why Classic Sonic was said to be from another "dimension" or "era" (whatever it's supposed to be) in Forces because Classic was never Modern. They both went through the events of the genesis era as shown in Sonic Adventure, but Classic doesn't grow into Modern, they just switch artstyles. Though I should make it clear that I dislike Classic's inclusion in Forces. There's no reason why an anniversary character should return in a Modern game. So for all of the reasons stated above, you can see why I dislike the new retcon right? It's bad because it limits what Sega can do with the Classic Sonic games, Classic designs (example: Classic Shadow), and in general doesn't make any sense to me. This retcon doesn't work in the canon because if we were to de-age the Classic cast to be younger than the Modern cast, some of the ages wouldn't make sense. Classic Sonic is shown to be just under Modern Tails' height, so if we de-age them consistently, Classic Sonic would be no older than 8 years. And because there's a 7 year difference between Sonic and Tails, wouldn't that make Classic Tails a 1 year old?? And what about Cream? She's supposed to be 6 years, yet stands at around the same height as Classic Tails. You can't make Classic Sonic 12-13 years because then he would have to be around the same height as Modern Amy (which is nearly equal to Modern Sonic). It would also be a pretty drastic change to go from Classic to Modern in only 2-3 years. All of it just wouldn't work without breaking too many rules.There doesn't need to be an answer for why Classic characters are shorter and cuter, they just look like that. And then there's Classic Eggman compared to Modern Eggman. Does there need to be a reason to justify how different he looks from Modern Eggman even though they're both middle-aged? Ocarina of Time Ganondorf never needed a reason to justify why he looks different in Wind Waker so why should Eggman? And going back to Sonic 4, how does Metal Sonic change into his modern design while broken and stuck on little planet? This calls into question Sonic 4's placement in the timeline because Metal still uses his Classic design from Sonic Adventure to Heroes. The problem here is that all of these questions wouldn't need weird cop-out answers if this retcon simply didn't exist. All of this can be explained away as the artstyle changing between games and moving on. It didn't have to get this complicated. The consequences of this retcon imply that no Classic Sonic title can take place before Adventure because now Classic canonically grows into Adventure. We can never have a Classic Shadow or a Classic Blaze because of this. And don't tell me a Classic Shadow wouldn't work because nothing stopped Nintendo from redesigning Ganondorf to fit the cute bubbly art style of Wind Waker while still looking cool. And now if Sega ever wanted to introduce a new classic character like Trip, they have to find a way to cram them somewhere in between the Genesis and Adventure era which is really awkward. We'll probably also never see the Chaos emerald abilities from Sonic SuperStars again because that would obviously mess with the current lore, so now they're forever tied to the North Star islands which will likely never come back in a future game. Now this is even affecting gameplay mechanics. These problems wouldn't exist if SuperStars was simply the latest game in the timeline. There wouldn't even need to be cop-out answers to justify it. Just have Sonic and friends go straight to the North Star islands after their adventure on the Star Fall islands. There also wouldn't need to be an explanation for where Trip has been for the past 20 or so games since she'd be a brand new character. This really annoys me because if Sega ever wants to make a game with a more cute/welcoming artstyle like the supposedly leaked Sonic mobile game, it's gonna use something like the souless looking Sonic and Friends artstyle just so they have access to characters like Shadow when Classic would've been perfect. I also agree that Classic characters should be used in Modern media too, there's no reason why they can't show up anymore. Sorry for the extremely long comment, but this has never sat right with me as I love the Classic style as much as the Modern style and would love to see it used more often for smaller spin-off titles or larger projects and not just 2d platformers so it sucks that we'll likely never get that. We need more people talking about this.

No

The lore never mattered instead the branding always mattered If u say humans in sonic before colors its becayse they are no longer part of the brand . Even the broken moon isnt part the brand anymore so they fixed it into a full moon . And the classic characters stays in the classic series And frontiers references dosent contrast wth its story So idw isnt canon Especially the west ruining the franchise wth their missconception and clash of cultures . Also ian flyn is close to get blacklisted bcuz of him ruining the lore by canonizing his ideas and doing shady pratices to make amy rose bad to bring back freedom fighters and glorifying sonally . Ans sega HATES western sonic medias cuz they ruined the original vision of the franchise . If sega were protective of their ips then satam and sonic underground would NEVER existed in the first place and archie comics would focuss on main characters not illegaly creating badly designed chracters like the comics characters now wth their sega of america and europe new presdident shuji utsumi they will no longer trust western writers to write sonic games cuz they all have experience wth the freedom fighters and archie .

I Feel Like Ian Flynn Should Be Fired Soon, Because Of Due To The Backclash Of Sonic Prime Canon To Advance 3!

First