Is Spider-Man 3 really THAT bad? 

There is an alternative scene where ,instead of the butler telling Harry the truth about Norman, Harry finds an old broken picture of him Peter and MJ and instantly abandons his revenge in order to help them

The sad truth is that Sam Raimi never planned to have Venom in the 3rd Spider Man movie, he wanted Sandman to be the main focus and save Venom for a 4th Spiderman movie that goes in much more depth. It's the studio's fault of twists Sam Raimi's hand into cramming 2 movies into 1...

Something funny i found was that eddie being in the church was because peter told him "you want forgiveness? Get religion" And my man actually took it to heart. 100000/10 writing

I think one thing that would’ve helped the movie out while also maintaining the push from Sony to include venom would be just to replace Eddie’s character with Harry. Sure there’s a disconnect between the comics and the movie because now the guy that supposed to be the hob goblin is venom, but you could totally do a comparison of peter to harry and represent that with the rivalry of spiderman and venom. Have Harry be ultimately consumed by his own hatred and revenge turning into a literal monster who doesn’t even think for himself anymore. The symbolism of Peter literally tearing off this negative version of himself that is clouding his judgment works well comparatively to someone unable to.

Even after ruining everything They gave AVI ARAD a big thank you in the credits of NO WAY HOME

I love Spiderman 3 for the mess that it is. There's something special for me about Tobey Maguire's portrayal of Peter Parker/Spiderman. It's definitely not a cinematic masterpiece but I enjoy the disjointed journey the movie takes me on every single time.

The symbiote and Venom was a decision made by the producers to increase appeal for the movie since they were so iconic to fans. Sam Rami has stated he didn't like adding Venom

Say what you want about Spider-Man 3, but it easily has the best soundtrack of the trilogy.

"He just happened to be in the church." I mean, that's exactly where Peter told him to go.

It has its not so great moments but it was the only one from the trilogy that i saw in theartes i still enjoy it for what it is you can still see Sam's strong writing seeping through the cracks

Favorite of the trilogy. The symbiote is fucking awesome. It might not be the tightest, but no movie with the sandman scene can be an outright bad movie. If nothing else it's inspired. I'll always remeber watching it for the first time with my dad and brothers. I grew up with the first 2 (it's half the reason I learned english). For everyone in my family, the 3rd one is the best. It always breaks my heart when people say it's awful, because more often than not they're just echoing this narrative that "it's the worst spiderman movie", and therefore it must be a bad movie. Fuck that. It's a good movie. Maybe not great, but damnit does it deliver some of the most iconic moments in a superhero movie, and it's a standout movie amongst the crowd.

They should have had Venom in a fourth movie instead. I'd also prefer if at some point it doesn't need its host anymore and kills Brock so we can get a purely monstrous crazy Venom experience.

>not as campy >literally the movie with the most funny scenes

See, I really like the symbiote in Spidey 3. I think I'd have a lot of difficulty buying that peter would murder sandman after his arc in the first 2 films. It's very obvious his ego is possessing him, and that he's troubled by Sandman's identity, but the power of the symbiote is how it pushes peter over that edge to create the conflict, and also gives him the internal strength to overcome it. Honestly, without Venom in this movie, the Symbiote arc wouldn't be too dissimilar to the Symbiote arc in Spectacular Spider-man, which, IMHO was really good.

I believe that the reason Spiderman 3 disappointed so hard is that given that it's well known that Sam Rami & Sony were clashing over what to do with the movie when you actually look at the movie, you can tell these are two different movies clashed into one. Everything from the characters, scenes, & dialogues felt like two different ppl were tryna do their own versions and the final product suffered as a result. Me personally, I understand the problems people have with this movie but I think Spiderman 3 is very overhated

There may have been a legitimate reason that the Butler didn't tell Harry about the Norman's true cause of death earlier. Possibly because Norman asked him not to let Harry know he was the green goblin. You may recall this was literally the last request Norman uttered right before he died in the first move. Now he says this to Peter not the butler, and it appears Peter actually followed this request, as he did remove the green goblin suit prior returning Norman's body to his penthouse. And while we don't see Norman tell his butler this but it would be in line w/ what we know about Norman for such a request to have occurred or for the Butler to understand that Norman wouldn't want Harry to know this horrible truth about him. And only decided to tell Harry the about it after seeing him start to fall down the same self destructive spiral that Norman went through. But obviously such an explanation isn't presented by the movie so who know :P

Growing up I loved this film so much, I knew every single line

as I get older and watch more reviews of this movie, I kind of feel obligated to things I didn't like about it myself... but i'm honestly struggling? it just appeals to my primordial lizard brain I guess. maybe i'm leaning too much into the suspension of disbelief. but i'm also a musician/producer so the score really stood out to me as well. the reveal of black suit peter is one of my favorite themes in the trilogy. danny elfman barely ever misses the mark other things I liked about this movie: the birth of sandman sequence was really compelling to me, visually and emotionally. I also thought rosemary harris acted her ass off, especially in the birthday scene. for the most part they kept it tonally consistent, like yeah there was some wild and goofy stuff but it still felt connected to the other two movies. I think a big part of that is how well they captured the grit of NY

I highly suggest watching the Editor's Cut. It's shorter. But they rearrange events and I think give the movie a much better flow.

Your videos and analyses are all so so great!!! You're so inspiring :) ALSO i can't wait for the amazing spiderman videos to come, looking forward to that

I still love this as much as the 2nd and 1st. May not be as polished and consistent, but i can't really shake the feeling there were at least hitters and the value I still get from re-watching it. I love that it took itself seriously and build upon that more than the last two. It challenges peter's morality about what it really means to control that tempered darkness and how it will destroy you and your loved ones around you if you aren't careful enough (That's what I got from it) My complaint to this day though, i wish they made a 2 part of spider-man 3. Like they can still have eddie brock and flesh out more of his character naturally as well as harry. Then by the 2nd part, they can all have the time to express eddie and peter's journey without it being too forced just for the sake of a big fight scene. I think that would make it a lot more personal and meaningful too. (I wouldn't mind waiting 3 or more years for it to be made if that were the case). Can't tell if its Sony or others involved in the movie that made that decision to push in everything.

The harry has amnesia and then remembers is strait from the comics and was almost the same. I found it to be pretty alright in the movie more like an actual part of the plot.

3 may have flopped, but I still can't help but wish we got the 4th Raimi movie with Mysterio.

In 15 years people are going to be making "was Morbius REALLY that bad" type videos unironically

Hey lowart 👋🏽 I love your videos man Keep at it 💖

I have to say I really enjoy having one of your videos to listen to every day

I blame AVI ARAD for destroying Sam Raimi's ambition He forced the inclusion of VENOM just so he could sell more toys

What does the Symbiote add to the movie? Merchandising! Sam Raimi wanted to do the Sandman story only, but Studio medling led to Venom getting added cause he had become a popular part of Spider-Man lore. Which is probably why we got the whole Church scene that feels ripped out of the comics and the 90s cartoon. I remember in the cartoon that they established earlier that the symbiote was weak to loud sounds which is why he thinks of using the Church Bell later on. It's sad how this movie couldn't be what the director originally wanted it to be. But at least we got Bully Maguire memes to pull us through.

It's so sad how Sam Raimis ideas were just dismissed. The movie series would've worked so much better if they focused on Sand-man on the 3rd and focused on Venom for the fourth.

When you consider all that was cut from the film, this could've been SO much greater. There were a number of Sandman scenes that were deleted from the final cut that would've fleshed out his character more and made his conflict meaningful. Even Venom could've been good but he had to be toned down because he was deemed too scary for kids.

I honestly love spider-man 3. Maybe some of it is nostalgia but regardless I always have fun with this movie. The first 2 are lightyears better but I still really like 3.

Interesting perspective that you liked it in theaters but ended up disappointed by it later on. I had the reverse reaction. As someone who knew about the symbiote arc from the 90s Spider Man cartoon, I was really let down by the handling of Brock, Venom, the symbiote, and just how overstuffed the movie felt. And while a lot of these criticisms still rang true upon rewatch, I found myself not getting hung up so much about what my vision of the film should have been and just enjoying it for what it was, and from that perspective I was able to have fun with it. There were still quite a few great scenes and at the end of the day while it's easily the weakest of the trilogy, I still don't think it's as much of a quality drop as some perceive it to be. In fact I would still rate it higher than quite a few MCU films, so I don't think I would call it bad anymore, but it definitely should have been better than it was, especially with the source material it was tapping into.

Better than anything that came after.

It's a classic case of studio executives literally shitting in the stew pot. Raimi didn't care about Venom either, you see. However, the executives wanted Venom because Venom is popular. So, rather than doing the right thing, and let Raimi finish his movie about Sandman, so that he could study Venom for a future film..... They forced him to shoehorn Eddie and the Symbiote in. That's why this stuff feels tacked on, because it was. It's still enjoyable, imho, but it could have been more. Venom would have done better as Spider-man 4, and they could have guaranteed an audience for it with a cliffhanger about the symbiote. Maybe still have Eddie in 3 as an introduction, so his shitty behavior and basic motivations, as a side character, but not a main antagonist. Delve deeper and flesh it out in 4, maybe taking a queue from TAS and using Shocker and Rhino as minor early on antagonists for 4.

I feel like this would have worked better as 2 movies to fully flesh out everything. Maybe split Venom and Harry into separate movies with the Sandman being a carryover between the two. It's like with Daredevil that came out close to the same time. There were under developed villains and unnecessary wasted time. Cut down the "cool" but meaningless stuff in order to better build characters. I don't remember the Kingpin type character much because he wasn't other than he killed [insert close family member] and this is so similar to Venom where he's the guy that tried to kill MJ and nothing else.

God I hated the kiss scene! It should’ve never been re-created. ☹️

The reason venom as in this movie in the first place was because one of the producers wanted venom in it.

It isn't that bad

Honestly I love this movie (unironically)

You *really* should watch the Spiderman TAS(90-s show) segment about Venom. It's done so much better and so much more logical. Peter doesn't just happen to be near the symbiote, he gets it because of rescuing people from a spaceship, because it's an alien organism, so so it makes perfect sense. Brock doesn't just happen to be near Peter when he loses the suit, he's a journalist and was chasing a story, so it makes sense that he was close to Spiderman when Peter lost the suit. Plus Peter truly goes into a killing rage when he's in the symbiote(the voice actor does a great job at showing it). The movie is just such a poor adaptation of the story, and it could had been done much better.

The Symbiote was great, as you said both personifying Peter's darkness in a visible way and allowing it to realistically progress at a fast pace in the movie. Also, its just plain creepy and I love that. Venom, otoh.....they should've either held off on that for a sequel or made Harry be Venom. Eddie Brock just clutters the movie too much.

In my opinion the films biggest sin is changing uncle Ben's murder. If Peter stopped the burglar he wouldn't have killed his uncle; that's Spiderman. Not his uncle somehow accidentally got shot or sth.

I thought Spider-Man 3 was just as good as the others when I was younger now rewatching this movie and it’s still as good as when I first watched it

Spiderman 3 is much better than modern mcu films. I also think it’s a great film. While it does have its flaws people often admit it’s the one they’ve watched the most and the one they find the most memorable. (Probably bc of the memes)

I just watched it a few weeks ago and I thought it was actually good, just maybe that they should have given a bit more of development to the villains

Spider-Man 3 was great and helps me with forgiving people who wronged me

Personally I don't think it's as bad as it's made out to be, I actually like it because it does feel like it's staying true to this timeline and the quality of the film feels just like the other two! I like how Harry's motivation was set up even though a dumb plotline was used only for it to lead to nothing since he gets his memory back anyways, I like the character arc Peter goes through now I do think it wasn't needed since he was all innocent in 1 and 2 so it felt wired and out of character but it is a listen for kids to learn. Some people are first jerks but later learn truth and wrong to right so I think it's a good massage for kids and teens even if it's a little out of place from the first two movies and last but not least Eddie, Now he sucks when he's venom but before he becomes venom he is a great dirtbag like real dirtbags it works so well in this movie only when he becomes venom does his character fall down.

Oh God. He’s doing the amazing spider man movies too? God speed Lowart

I think they should of sort of had Venom earlier in the film but besides that its really good, that's all that matters to me myself and I. (it should have been a mystery who Venom was and then they revealed it at the end)

If Sony greenlits SPIDER-MAN 4, they need to get rid of AVI ARAD Or else it will be just another failure

well i personally loved the venom in this movie, what do you think of venom in the spectacular spiderman series?

Spider Man 3 started out as a good movie. But the black Spiderman ruined it for me. The movie should've saved Venom for a 4th movie and kept Sandman and Hop Goblin as the only villains in Spider Man 3

The black suit theme was pretty fire

Yes, next video

like what is so wrong with eddie ?? he beat tf outta spiderman how is he still not intimidating and why is his motivation unbelievable he's a competitive dude and peter out competed him for a job and embarassed him in the process and then he came into power (the symbiote) and seeked revenge thats so unbelievable and corny?? my only fault with the movie is venom shouldn't have died and 1 more movie with venom as the main villain should have been released

Couldn't harry just think the death by glider could have eailly been Spiderman using it to kill goblin. I always thought that revelation wasn't the most effective but maybe I misunderstood the scene

Parker should of had the symbiote after harry’s amnesia

I didn't find the jazz club scene ruined the flow at all. I don't think it's that long, I think the tone is handled well. It's a bit chaotic, but I don't really mind. And no I don't even enjoy it in a funny or ironic way, I * do* think it's better written than the first two. Not just the MJ stuff. I thought the tone was an improvement. The dance did not take away from that for me. Peter being the way he was. It's just...kind of the point? he's lost it. I'm also not laughing at any Venom scene. Not to mention 3 has incredible fight scenes that made a lot more sense in some areas tbh, 2s contrivances were worse and 3 overall peak comedy, like when Peter starts bragging about how epic he is. 3 grown on me a lot with time. I think it's better than your making it out to be, but it's about perspective. I thought it was bad up until I started seeing a lot of flaws with the first two. So that might have something to do with it.

I saw this movie the day it came out and I loved it.

They pretty much took story from the 90s Spider-Man cartoon for the venom storyline lol. Also originally Rami wanted this to be a two part movie with this one ending with Peter getting the symbiote and more focused on harry Osbourne and sandman with the Osbourne storyline ending here and venom being much more developed in the next movie with the vulture and "vultress". Blame Avi Arad for this movie.

The movie’s initial premise and development really was shaping to be great. To me it seems that the movie wrapped too fast once it established Venom as the antagonist… like they could’ve set up a Spider-Man 4 and they were told to close everything on 3…

Eddie with that pitch and tone sounds right to me.

Movie would've worked better as 2 parter. Harry is called New Goblin, because he is a mix of main universe version where was a Green Goblin and the Ultimate universe version where he was the only Hobgoblin. Venom WAS tagged on, because Sony studio wanted him in the movie, Raimi didn't want it yet. How Eddie got the costume is accurate, at least main universe. I love Venom (he is mine fav Marvel character, heck 1 of mine fav characters in general), don't like his movies. The book version ad some extra things.

I've only watched 'Spider-Man 3' once and it was in the theaters. I personally hated the movie.

I just found out Sam wanted to focus on the Sandman and Harry is the new Goblin to the story but it was changed the Venom was forced in blame producer Avi Arad for is interferences he forced Venom in Sam said he doesn't no Venom Spider-Man 3 picture logo would have stayed red and not have black red like the first and second

I love it so much

Actually Vemon was always a goofball in the comics, if you watch @JaxBlade and @ComicTropes, he always the oddball this actually true to the character, - the lack of big muscles since Eddie was a buff dude in the comics. But ya this version of the character was kinda weak, that was until I watch a video about this version of this character from @ToonGrin that shows there's some I repeat some parts of the character from the comics that are in this version of Eddie, just not the muscles that's all. Also the reason he was at the church because in the comics he was about to well *mhmm* to put it likely, self game over, let's put it like that, thinking how spiderman and Peter fucked him over in his life and praying to God for forgiveness, because Eddie is Catholic, it just so happened that Peter was there getting the symbiot off his body using the church bell lound sounds to get it off. But, I can say one thing about this Vemon, he has a really cool never before seen design that combine his classic look from the comics and the spiderman web outlines that Peter was warring though out the movie, they really need to bring it back in some shape or form in the comics or in other media because this look is kind of fucking badass in my opinion, just saying.

In defence the butler was promised not to tell Harry the truth

AVI ARAD is now gonna ruin BORDERLANDS and KRAVEN THE HUNTER The same way he ruined this movie and TASM2

This is actually one of the first movies I saw in theaters

In ohter words F you Aavi arad for forcing venom

Yes

I watched Spider-Man 3 about five or six years after it came out and I enjoyed it a LOT more than anyone would have had me believe. Was it great? No. Definitely not. But was it the worst thing ever like people were saying when it first came out? Also no.

I generally put movies into 3 categories: Interesting, fun and boring As long as it's not purely the last one, I will enjoy it no matter how much of a mess it is lol

I like the black suits in this movie

I honestly love symbiote and venom, but yeah it sucks that there was infighting between the director and producers

what matters is whats in the movie not how long it is.

I think this movie handled Sandman beautifully, it was kinda perfect... but very hard to appreciate with all the other chaos going on. The way it handled Harry was kinda baffling because there were so many moments that seemed like fantastic ideas until they did something cliche to ruin it. And then Eddie Brock is just evil Eric Foreman. In my opinion, this movie's biggest problem is by far the way they made Peter Parker so despicable and difficult to root for. I think there was an easy way to fix Harry. They could have depicted Harry as faking his amnesia out of stress and a desire to have things return to normal, but then things slowly line up for him to take a cheap shot at Peter when MJ kisses him. It would have made him more of a direct foil to dark suit Spider-Man, and made his arc so much sadder. If there was no dumb "sir, the glider wounds" butler scene, then Harry is legitimately forgiving Peter for something he never knows he didn't do, by realizing he already forgave him once, when he pretended to forget what he thought Peter did to steal moments of friendship with him, free of the tragedy of losing "the only family he's got left". That makes his decision to help them anyway an even more powerful gesture, to make his eventual sacrifice a lot more thematically impactful and directly tie it to the ending the other characters take out of it. It would've made Harry the wisest character throughout the finale. I made a fan edit of this movie, based on similar rationale to my fix for Harry. A better movie just falls into place from having the problem scenes removed, which makes me wonder if the original script looked something like this until the studio got their hands on it and added a bunch of little changes out of fear it would be too introspective for most audiences to grasp. Most of what I removed are just flimsy, cliche, surface level explanations for character motives, and with those gone I noticed a lot of the character motives naturally took on a different, more mature context. Excuse me for rambling, I'm just eternally fascinated by how this movie turned out. It had everything it needed to be a phenomenal final installment to a perfect trilogy and it just didn't.

If we get Spider-Man 4! Spider-Man 3 would be filler for me.

Spider-Man 3 > Spider-Man 2 I said what I said

I mean, they canned Spider-Man 4 over this despite Sam Raimi being ready to make another one and Spiderman 3 making plenty of money.

This sounds like it has great concepts but poor implementation. It's movies like Spiderman 3 which I wish got a remake, because it has potential which wasn't realized.

I can totally buy the emo dance. Peter Parker is a complete dork, I'd imagine this is what being cool looks like to him

Sam Rami even HATES part 3!!

I saw this in theaters and yeah it is not as good as the first two but I never thought it was as bad as people said it was and there are good things in it

Honestly, with the symbiote and Eddie Brock. Sam raimi didn't feel like he knew the character enough to be put into a movie. But avi Arad and Sony really pushed it on him because everyone loved venom and it will make good money. So if they didn't add venom, I can agree that it would've been better. But I still enjoy it for what it is. But I won't blame the director for the movie because he tried to understand the character but he didn't have a lot of time and it was forced onto him to be put in it.

This eddie looks like he is from some twitter sh...t

I love Eddie in this movie

Topher Grace Venom is god cbm character

The Raimi Trilogy is still 1000x better than the 2 Marc Webb films and anything the MCU has produced... Great video though and I respect your opinion 😊👍

it's peak i'm afraid

Biggest highlight of Spiderman 3 for me was the actress who played Gwen Stacy was drop dead gorgeous.

To be honest I always felt Sandman’s storyline was unnecessary. We were done with uncle Ben and we didn’t need to retcon the original killer. And I personally wanted Venom more. Harry was being built up and it should have just been him toying with Peter who gets the black suit. Then either have it become Venom halfway though or save him for a 4th film.

If only the studio didn't force him to add Venom to the story against his wishes

Nah this movie go hard lol 😂 since i was a kid it went hard actually one of the best Adult Spider-Man stories

I thought the emo Parker cafe dance scene was still funny. Dig on this is gold tier.

Sam Raimi wanted Sandman as the Maine villain with Harry Osborne Side Story finally being completed with his death no Venom to be seeing producer Avi Arad reportedly went to Sam if he wanted fans to like Spider-Man 3 put in their favorite character Venom Sam said he didn't understand that well and he did not want to put a character he did not understand himself which is totally reasonable Avi Arad push him to Avi Arad should have left Sam's script alone

Spider-Man 3 is a weird one. I don't think it's close to the other 2 in terms of quality, and you can definitely tell that Sony and Raimi butted heads several times during production. Maybe it's the superhero fatigue of the last few years, but i can't help but look back at this movie and see at least someone who actually cared behind the camera, instead of just feeling like another lifeless product made in a factory. It's still a well directed movie, with an AMAZING soundtrack, the special effects still hold up well (especially considering more recent movies) and it still manages to have some great scenes here and there, particularly Sandman's birth.

I will say this i don't think Spider-Man 3 wasn't a bad movie even it was mess a lot of areas it wasn't terrible and plus this got even memed so hard and ill be honest this is my favorite sam raimi movie i even like it more than spider-man 2 but thats just my opinion

to me it was ok some people just looking for reason to dislike movies they have 0 reasons to dislike