They could just give them faction ability to spawn miners just like menace below. It shouldn't be a problem given all the monogods and ogres have their very strong faction abilities.
That loss took very long to play out even though it was obvious the moment you saw the 5 thunderers. Without a cannon the Norscan player dictated the engagements, without layers of defense the chariots needed only bumrush through the main line to get into the thunderers, and without gyrobombers the chariots ran rampant.
The thing about CA and TWW is that you can be 100% sure they'll do it, but when is a big-ass question. I use the analogy of dressing yourself out of order. Like first you put on a sock, then a hat, then a shirt, etc - something like that. It took them until TWW2 was almost done to rework Beastmen, a TWW 1 (DLC) race, and before that Skaven got like 2-3 DLCs, but CA did rework the Beastmen after all.
@@steelbear2063 The issue is that Beastmen had shit campaign mechanics but their actual units weren't that bad. For dwarves it's like the opposite. Their campaign features feel pretty fleshed out, but they have the same issue in battle as in tabletop where their only hammer is gun/artillery line. They just feel very one dimensional given the lack of proper magic, fast units, SEM's and anti-infrantry melee units.
Blame the player not the faction. Huge mistake to not start with artillery and force the enemy to be overly aggressive before the capture zones even opened up, forcing them into the dwarfs reinforcement zone if they want to get the artillery...or just get shot up if they don't.
Plus no Slayers to back them up? No Runesmith to snare a chariot unit? Playing as Dwarves, you have to play the long game. So plan for a long game. Force your opponent to come to you with Cannons/Range backed up with Runesmith/Slayers/Gyrocopters
@@xeldronx runesmith vs chariots is a trap. They're still much faster than dwarf infantry, and pull out easily. For slows to work vs chariots, you need to stack them, and that's only a guaranteed payoff if they're out of position vs thunderers or slayers/
@@TheAmazingDom Not quite understanding what you're saying. Chariots, and other large units, that are used to go after the gun line are often out of position.
@@xeldronx and dwarfs are still usually too slow to punish them. It's never just one unit pressuring the backline, so any missile units you have to punish the slowed chariot are probably dealing with chariots/zombie summons/plague rats/cavalry/furies/fell bats/Skaven summons etc. of their own and unable to help. Since dwarfs can't rely on their front line to win, anyone playing against them can put 90% of their effort towards disrupting their missile units.
There was a manticore about 50 meters behind the skyhammer, if I saw correctly It looked like a decently good micro, getting that RoR out of it's path so quickly after dropping the majority of it's payload...but the dwarf loss says otherwise?
I'm waiting for Domination mode to open up to the public. I want to try a artillery piece supported by Slayers like old times. You never see that nowadays from players who try Dwarves. There was no Runesmith for snaring or Slayers to defend that gun line.
Theory crafting. Early bolt throwers. They are fairly cheap, can hide in forests(surprise!) and are ideal for taking down rushing chariots and SEMs. Their damage is just high enough that each bolt can take down heavy infantry models(depending on angle, maybe 4-5). Position the Artillery so that your vanguard deployments can quickly assist them if needed(Rangers with Greatweapons). Rather than focusing on taking 2 objectives early on, try to secure the "best" flank, and play it like a land battle. Decimate enemy formations and whittle down their numbers, winning the value trade. Keep reinforcing that point, so that you never lose it and keep smashing the enemies within reach. Then, when the time is right, rush the closest of the 2 other objectives with cheap rangers(vanguard deployment and stalk, so they are harder to respond to), with support from your "firebase".
How about artillery, like a flame cannon, or Organ guns? or Irondrakes? I feel that Dwarfs could have just one unit to summon as a counter to mass blobs, and force the enemy to counter. One artillery piece, and a slayer guarding it... no?
It just costs too much, you want the slayers chasing the chariots and if you leave a unit to gaurd the artillery than that's one less unit on the points. War hounds, bats, furies, harpies, chariots, and manticores are just too cost effective against gun line armies in domination. The real issue is that dwarves do not have a solid melee unit to crush chaff like mauraders.
I think it might be too strong so RU-vidrs don't cast it? Like to me it looks so op to have artillery near your reinforcement zone. So unless you overcommit a fuckton to get the cannons anything you send there will just get intercepted by reinforcements.
Dwarf infantry needs a buff. More specifically their killing power across the board. There's no reason why dwarf infantry is so bad at killing things, they were WS4/S4 on tabletop. But it seems like in Warhammer TW they are balanced towards holding power only since they have abysmal MA and WS . From a balance standpoint, they need to be able to push the enemy off the objective. And without magic OR mobility, dwarf infantry needs to be able to kill things as well as holding. And of course they need a Thunderbarge with rappelling Ironbeakers .
Everyone here is talking about how weak the Dawi are, but honestly most of this L was just from bad play and bad preparation from the man on the reins. Ungrim running around doing literally nothing, 5 (FIVE) (五) Thunderer units hoping that a single slayer and a single gyro can protect them, not a single unit that can provide slows, the list goes on.
Dwarfs are a stupid concept in general. The only good dwarfs are in Dragon Age and in The Elder Scrolls (they are elves there, but whatever). Warhammer Dwarfs are especially dumb.
@Pax Gravis Oh right, they have a book that makes them attack allies and drags them into pointless costly wars. It's a miracle they have survived for as long as they did. Then again hiding in mountains is a good strategy to survive and then act smug and superior. Work IRL too
@@steelbear2063 dragon age dwarfs are just warhammer dwarfs but worse what are you on about? same clan hierarchy, same architecture, same everything. They're just a whole lot weaker physically in Dragon age.
waaaay too optimistic. i wouldnt bring more than 2. invest into a gyrobomber and maybe an Irondrake or great cannon to leave at spawn to pick away at the large units so they have to devote time to take it out. also get a damn runesmith
@@JakeBaldwin1 the big thing is there projectiles are so easy to see and move slowly so you can dodge them pretty easily, not to mention the short range for artillery and there extreme cost, really I think the unit that people sleep on is irondrakes, they can be put into risk with ranged infantry, but even a single volley on a good target can cause them to pay for themselves
Domination is the one thing Dwarves should be good at. Just sit their slow selves on an objective and let the enemy come to them. Yet, they are so badly underpowered in almost every way that they still lose at even camping a spot. So sad.
For Dwarfs to get an increase in speed, there's a few things CA could do/add: CHANGES Slayer Ability: "Look Snorri, Trolls!" Inspired by the Slayer Army Book special rule, an ability to buff their speed similar to Foe Seeker. Makes slayers better able to chase their targets and move locations, but are still below Cav (as they should be). Summon Miners: As they could on the board, summon basic miners from below the ground exactly like Menace Below. Rune Magic: Stop making runes so utterly useless and not have EVERY rune go on cooldown at once. This would incentivise people to use the one that buffs speed way more. Gyrocopter mount for Engineers: It's shocking they still don't have this option. NEW UNITS Rune Golems: Monstrous infantry with a speed of around 45-50 would give them something that is still plodding by "rapid" rate but far more able to move about. Deathrollers: Yes, the classic dwarven steamroller! Say a unit of 4 like chariots, give them a speed of around 60-70. Again not FAST, Dwarfs will still be slower, but it's SOMETHING able to better move. Juggernaught: The Dwarf Steam Tank from way back, again faster than infantry, without being full on cav speed. Gatling Gun Wagon: Anyone who's read Dragonslayer knows this one. Pony drawn wagon with a rapid fire gatling cannon atop it. Mobile artillery akin to the Skull Cannon or Scrap Launcha. Doomseekers: Slayers who are even more mental, thus could easily have a small buff to speed. Thunderbarge: You want air supremecy, this is how you get air supremecy.
idk, i like unique factions, like Vampire counts who got zero missles. They are still good. Dawii should keep their unique no cav angle, apart from that i agree. Most of all give us Thunderbarges!!!! plz
I really want dwarfs to get love, but this isn't what they should get, ideally we should get a few of them, like the thunderbarge as it is just a slow artillery platform that Flys, it fits into the dwarfs play, however dwarfs shouldn't have chariots, and if dwarfs get monstrous infantry golems, they should have a passive calles stone skin, which gives them stupid high ranged resistance, and speed barely above infantry, the way you'd use them is to either block enemy monsters or to support them with irondrakes, also I love the idea of the the getting gun cart, however I think this should be limited to a legendary hero, which would probably mean they'd make it a refined version of the war wagon ROR in the empire,
I think the Dwarves need some kind of armored boar riders, like LOTR style. They need need something that can move around and counter other cav. That’s the only mobile ground unit I can think of that makes some sense for them. They need something though
What if they gave dwarves the ability for gyrocopters to capture points and be the only race with flyers that can cap points? At least it would give them SOME kind of option to quickly get capture weight on points.
@@TheGreatMoonFrog I meant that Gyros are bad at pushing enemies off a capture point and can't hold it against a counter attack. Even the best capture weight rating in the world won't change that.
@@Lukashoffmann94 No, but did you not see the capitalized SOME in SOME kind of option. I fully realize it's not as good as the options every single other army has, but it's SOMETHING. They can use bombing runs and their guns to get rid of some units. Like if there's some spears left on a back cap? Summon 2 or 3 gyrocopters, bomb/shoot them off fairly quick and go in for the cap. Again it's not perfect but I feel it's better than the current option of: nothing.
Is that really surprising? They only have maximum dmg potential of 9,2k. Against the 85 armor of those chariots that already drops to 8,5k. Accuracy doesn’t seem to be great either and you even have to deal with the 10% physical resist after a while. Yeah no wonder they struggle to deal with the 6,1k hp of those chariots.
That Norsca build is pretty similar to one I used against my friend's Dwarves in game II, when his love of Flame Cannons and Irondrakes rendered my Trolls and Skin-Wolves ineffective. Marauder Champion GW, Ice Wolf Chariots and the Shaman-Sorcerer (though I usually go with Plague of Rust and the armour buff spell whose name is eluding me as I type this). Nice to see a much better player running the same type of list.
It's actually depressing how horrendously garbage all the dwarven melee infantry is in comparison to everyone else. One would think the faction with ZERO mobility would get at least Linebacker Melee Infantry, but nope.
Dwarf miners need a one time use teleport "deep strike" ability, and then dwarfs can participate in the obnoxious melee spam meta just fine. Or CA can finally make it so units that are shattered or dead don't go back into reinforcements and dwarfs would be fine with their sturdy infantry if they can value trade their opponent.
these map types are awesome; it would allow to focus much more on each races specialty without it breaking the balance (like there are FEW races that would stand a chance grinding vs. dwarfs in lore situations; only bc of balance 90%+ of these races can fight the dwarfs in melee and not get crushed :P )
Here's an interesting suggestion for fixing the dwarf mobility issue; give them a sprint ability. Increases movement speed by 10-20% for 20 seconds, and only recharges if standing still for 2 minutes or so.
To be fair, I've seen some good use of miners with the High King in the first and second game. I would even go as far as to use the term "a miner build".
I feel like the meta will shift to Dawi-tide style in Domination. 10 miners on the initial deployment backed by dwarf warriors (basically 15+ units in the initial army). Reinforce with slayers or gyros.
9:40 guessing it was low on ammo and no bombs and was desummoning it before that manticore got on it and made it run in circles or die for the rest of the game ^^ maybe allowing summoning on a point you own would be good for the slower/ranged races, which are heavily nerfed in combat power to balance them out in normal combat :)
the dwarfs just need way more war machines. gyros with helstorms, gyros with flame cannons, gyros with organ guns, tanks, thunderbarges, troop carrier gyros that drop off ironbreaker marines with shotguns, rune golems, brewmasters, and why not some rangers with breach-loaders. just make the dwarfs the meme everyone wants them to be: US marine cav battalion in the 1960.
It would be cool to see a best of 5 game with 3 race bans per participant and completely random races. So people draw a random race to play as and they have to play it versus the opponent's random race. The bans are to eliminate the other person's most comfortable factions.
It's like they need an anti infantry slayer unit cheap and fast. A cheap skirmish cav wouldn't go a miss either maybe a little group of steam dune buggies with grenade launchers. If gyrocopters exist nearly any vehicle can for them.
Not really, dwarfs have built land vehicles, and there is at least one dwarf to have crewed a steam tank, but they don't like it, and they shouldn't have many fast attack troops, what they should have is a real hybrid infantry unit that doesn't throw blasting charges, Longdong and hid slayer pirates are the best bet for a fast version, however we could easily see units with drake fire pistols, which would allow them to have there stalwart infantry with a ranged attack that makes it so that you don't have to deadicated infantry ranged units to deal with chariots, or cav speed is supposed to be a dwarf weakness
Do dwarves have chariots in the table top? They build *Gyrocopters*. I mean... Dwarves need fast units and it just seems like a missed opportunity if they don't.
No, the point of the dwarfs in table top was they were the infantry and artillery faction, every unit they had that wasn't a war machine, was infantry, giving them movement would take away the point of them, the real problem is that dwarfs lost one of there best tools, the abylity to shut down magic like a old people in the 90s when there daughter mentioned something about witches, and the fact that summons weren't able to to instantly shut down any unit on the field, they had to summon them, wait a turn, then move them closer to your unit they want dead (which is after the dwarfs had a turn to set up there response to it be it having infantry charge them or turning to shoot them) or if they wanted to risk it, they could try for an unlikely charge, and if they are very unlikely to get into melee until they've been in the game for 3 turns, in a game that has at most 6 turns,
Dwarfs are not weak, if you want to win in domination you need to go full miner and warrior spam and swarm the objectives holding with numbers not speed. Few copters or a bomber for some fluidity is ok. Trading value should be forgotten with dwarfs. Thorek is the only good lord option in this tactic, just buff defense for holding power.
Footlords being ignoreable in domination and Dawi having no other lord type is a feelsbad moment. At least Grombi has flashbomb and Thorek has buffs+runes, but Ungrim, Thorgrim, Belegar, and the vanilla lord need some serious help.
The real sad thing is that the foot lords are easier to force into a melee here and they still barely get to do there thing, mounts are probably the second most OP thing in the game, only behind magic
@@Lukashoffmann94 grombrindal has 1000 hp more them him, that's a giant amount, then you have the fact grombrindal actually buffs his army, AND none of his abilities debuff him, ungrim is a beast when he can fight a large guy, but he spends the whole game chasing after them just so he can hit it twice
@@calebbarnhouse496 Dwarf Lord + Master Engineer is cheaper than Grombi, if the flash bomb is all you care about. In Domination you could even stuff the Lord into your reinforcements and never summon him at all.
@@Lukashoffmann94 and the master engineer is another thing to protect, and easy to sniper with a basic lord, not to mention of course that you still get the unbreakable abylity that boosts the hell out of your melee stats temporarily while making your guys stop running away, just the perfect counter to a compromised Backline because one button can make dwarf warriors match the MD of ironbreakers
Not sure why dwarves were never given a mining cart unit. Can't imagine how they would mine out their massive karaks without some sort of cart. They would be slow so they would fit with theme but provide essential mass to deal with chariots and other large units. Could give them either blasting charges or thunderer attacks and they would be pretty decent. Just an idea. If that's somehow too lore breaking could give them beer carts. I know they had those in lore for sure!
Mining carts are lore friendly, but they don't ride them, dwarfs don't like vehicles, very few will ride in a cart, the only vehicles dwarfs are willing to use are boats, but again, only dwarfs considered insane use them, particularly submarine crews who are on the teir of slayers when it comes to being insane, and Gyrocopter pilots, who fly mostly to prove the Gyrocopter is a good invention, and as a result of being an invention is hated for it, there is a dwarfhold so stubborn in the old ways they won't even use gunpowder, something they have had since before the war of vengeance, beer carts aren't a viable option outside of a hero mount, what the dwarfs need is tools to make mobility there weakness, rather then the thing they are helpless against, for instance slayers, if we got a unit of slayers that can fire while moving with some basic attack, all of a sudden the dwarfs have the abylity to chase after targets because they don't need to catch them, they just have to be near them, that combined with the fact that dwarf charge bonuses are way to low, they had a special rule that let them hit harder when they charged, so they were bad at getting the charge (as only one unit in a fight cab charge the enemy) because that's how turn based games work, this meant that when they charged, they became some of the most cost effective fighting units in the game, outside of slayers, particularly giant slayers, but that'd because they were horribly weak
@@calebbarnhouse496 That would be super helpful for the dawi having some kind of ranged slayer unit. Might even solve their problem. I'm not much of a lore expert so this was pretty interesting. Are there a generalist non anti-large slayer variant by some chance? Could make use of it. Definitely think their roster is lacking some of the tools for domination and new units might help.
@@redfondant4726 well strictly speaking while slayers are monster hunters, outside of total war, they have very rarely had anything that would mean you only want to fight large units, slayers are just deadly warriors that prefer to fight monsters with the hero and lord versios having specialization to fight dragons, or deamons, if you ever read the gotrek and Felix books, they rarely ever fight a monster, it's almost exclusively infantry, and almost all of them die to gotrek, however the general consensus is that doomseekers should be anti infantry slayers, they use blades or hammers that are chained to them because they are the most insane dwarfs to ever live, they ate pretty cool, but a lot of people want them to act like chariots when really they should be a monstrous infantry sized group with a stupid bonus vs infantry, splash attacks, and a high charge bonus, and like all slayers should have they need some physical resistance
It's crazy how good dwarfs should be in domination. They're the faction that rules the "sit on an objective and hold to the end" concept and yet still somehow the meta of this game eludes my beardy boys.
Please CA make it so chariots cannot push through braced dwarf infantry and give the faction armour piercing resitance on their armour. Marauders should not armour pen dwarf armour lol
Another huge mistake is to bring brimstone gyros instead of the steam ones, so much more infantry on the map, you are better off getting rid of the chariots with thunderers + slow from chars or runes. Steam Gyros do insane dmg to infantry, especially marauders + cheaper... Like those people have early access and don't even test out all kinds of stuff like this is super weird to me.
Bad take, steam gyros take too long to generate value and dwarfs had plenty of marauder chaff clear, and the dwarf player had no slows to pin down the chariots for slow shooting units to deal any damage to them. Brimstone or Gyrobomber on the chariots from the start might have at least got them low enough to minimize their backline disruption of the thunderers that lost him the game.
@@RHINO_Mk_II They didn't, that's why their ranged units got overwhelmed, the thunderers were a complete waste. I agree that he brought a terrible build. Complete waste of thunders, no slows? Very bad choice. Steam gyros get rid of unarmored infantry very quickly. Give it a quick test in custom battle please.
Another video that shows the hot garbageness of Dwarfs in MP and how they are the worst (by far) in Domination. At this point it's not really interesting anymore to make videos about them, the outcome is already decided at the start of the battle, it's pathetic. They have only weaknesses and not a even a single thing where they're the best of the best (they don't even have the best artillery lmao) unlike so many other factions. Can't wait for Chaos Dwarfs to finally have a viable Dwarf faction. Great content though. Thanks.
5 minutes in and im already pissed off. I get that its hard to do everything, and you cant possibly do everything, but positioning your guns and taking down the mobile anti-infantry units first is key. a normal grind the dawi will win hands down. Dont ever let anyone compromise your gunlines!
Dwarfs aren't bad it's the player, has 5 thunders grouped up only protected by one slayer... FLIP ME when I get mortal empires I'm gonna eat so much BUSSY that's for DAMN SURE
Man dwarfs feels so fragile. Without any speed or mass, they can barely defend more than one or two ranged pieces against anything more than the dumb AI. Not sure what the fairest solution is. Could be more melee survivability across the board to help grind and defend, more melee punch to make rushing them a bit more costly, or some more utility on certain units. Hope they get some love one day that improves their strengths enough to justify their crippling handicaps.
I mean when I watched 8th edition battle reports of dwarfs the comment sections were filled with salt about how OP dwarfs are because they have organ guns
@@calebbarnhouse496 Then the comment section had no clue what they are talking about xD while organs are certainly strong I bet there was some serious rng involved that skewed the perception. In general either grudge thrower or cannon were better choices.
@@-Kidzin the problem is that you don't choose between cannons or organ guns, you choose both and trim down your infantry to substitute it, but no, it's pretty clear from when I compared to what is supposed to happen on average being better then what he shot, but still slaughters units cause a few runes makes the thing pretty much impossible to not kill things well unless it gets sniped by a cannon
