My favorite jet of all time, the F-15C. It should be a very competitive plane moving into the patch. Looking forward to it. MY DECAL + 3% OFF GAIJIN STORE: store.gaijin.n... My Discord: / discord Air Models Affiliate: airmodels.net/...
@@SeekerHeadcould be that they'll only lower it to 12.3 Seems like they want to make 12.3 the baseline for the new arh seeing as they raised the J-8F from 11.7 to 12.3
It also needs the F4E RWR if if this version was the last to be produced and upgraded you think it would have a better RWR to actually give you a missile launch warning
@@nick4754 Tbh it kinda does in top tier Air. But that's just by virtue of Germany having a massive gap in aircraft between stuff like the F-104 and then Eurofighter.
ive seen alot of people point out how the su27 can carry 2 more r77s and while I think thats a fair point id like to say as an average su27 pilot ill still be carrying 2 R27ETs regardless of how good or bad fox 3s are. The versatility they have is pretty great to have and if I had to guess I probably wont be the only one running 4 fox 3s at most. Also obligatory su27 cant dogfight moment
Agreed on both points - I now wish I had MORE ET slots because due to ARHs everybody hugs the deck even tighter, which makes a double tap with am r77+ET a guaranteed kill. Everybody also listens for the rwr sound a lot more and they seem to not notice the ETs dropping from high heavens. And yeah it still can't dogfight.
because they already went balls deep into giving the most op loadout and now if they changed the flight model it'd break the game, imagine a gripen with 720 cm's and they decide to give it r73, it'd break the game( i know thats not historically accurate but it's an example)
@@SeekerHead to be entirely fair, the only REAL differences between the 2, was that the B model has a reprogrammable WGU-41/B guidance section, rather than the hardware changes required in the A's programming section. There werent any performance differences, since everything else stayed the same, and WT doesnt feature missile programming by maintenance crews.
id personally say the Gripen's fm is better for air rb imo, I just dont like how the F-15's locks up at higher speeds and the gun placement is horrible
@@mamarussellthepie3995 yeah but then you can have smth like the gripen that doesnt lock up as much and also doesnt just shit away all of its speed in 1 turn. And the F-15's combination of locking up and the awful gun placement make it really hard to get shots on people
The gun placement leads to a nice 9 seconds of trigger time though, so you can be on the trigger a little earlier if that's your issue. The gun convergence really doesn't make too much a difference if your gun conversion is set to 500m since the shots taken past that are realistically too low of probability of hit, let alone PK.
Unpopular opinion: since once I’m done spading the plane I mainly fly it in ground rb for pest control (aka su25’s and ka50’s removal) I’d much rather have the opportunity of loading 8 aim9m’s since the smokeless motor makes them a way better threat than aim7 or 120’s
I don’t have German TT but damn, why tf the ICE sits at 12.7, because of AMRAAM’s? But fox 3’s are nearly useless and will be nearly useless until multipathing is fixed so it is just a Phantom with 9L’s and 4 radar missiles that will be dodged by doing ….. nothing but flying low without even manoeuvring and it will face all the top dogs that have better … everything lmao
I genuinely don't understand the decision. I'm pretty sure the 6 amraams and 2 heaters loadout is the standard for F-15s, I see it all the time. With the Mirage getting the 2 and 6 loadout with, atleast IRL, better missiles than the Aim-120A, the flight performance excuse seems very hollow
@@jjnmr flight model. its the turn/drag/etc. its how the plane flys when you hear "that plane has bad FM" it means that it doesnt turn well (or in SU27/MIG29 case, they bleed all of their speed once they turn)
They need to keep the Su-27 FM issue for it to be balanced, otherwise it would be better in every way. It’s what you get when Gaijin adds decade(s) newer Soviet vehicles
@@gasparferrandisromero1075 the R-77 is bugged/modeled incorrectly right now, the Su-27SM’s load out is still much better than the F-15C’s even if it got 8x AIM-120As. If they were adding the F-18D/E with 8x AIM-120As, I could understand unnerfing the Su-27SM’s FM.
STOP COMPLANING AMERICA MAINS, look at every other country and see how ridiculously bad having 8 aim120s would be. German Main here tired of getting fucked by gaijin and US/USSR mains and left at the curb
I would like to see AMRAAMs on the wings because that is historical and probably 6 AMRAAMs are the best in GRB. However looking at how F-14's players are doing in the past, firing 6 AIM-54 and RTB (without even trying to kill with guns or the remaining AIM-9s. I hope they just release with 4 AIM-120s for now so there wont be someone grind out F-15C just spamming 8 AIM-120s and hit nothing because the targets are out of range. (If they release it with 8 AMRAAMs I'm also fine)
well no early F-15C variants such as the one in game... could not carry 8 aim120s. first the wing pylons couldnt support the 120 as they are the same pylons as the A variants. second the actual control unit of the early F-15C's couldnt support more then 4. yes that was changed later on but its not some bias bullshit thing its just the variant chosen couldnt carry 8
Tbh I think a more important disparity than missile loadouts is that stuff like the Gripen has effectively infinite countermeasures, F-15 has a great amount and the Soviets have a very limited number. Crying about "Russian bias" is a real skill issue tbh.
@@SeekerHead wasn't meant to be a hate comment, I actually quite enjoyed the video and was just saying it was nice that they changed it soon after the video dropped
I love how people complain about f15c carrying more than 4 amraams will ruin the game while no one gives a f about su27 carrying the whole arsenal, never even mention amraams seem to be one of the worst fox3 in the dev server rn
Nobody complained while Su-27 grabbing the most stupid overpowered loadout called 6*R-27E without any restriction in Air Superiority, bringing back ‘Danger Zone’ flashbacks but complaining historical 8*AIM-120 is ridiculous.
@acdfg3the wobble on all of them and I agree, it’s annoying. I hope they fix that but if they don’t make 6v6 an event tab or smaller matches not showing up more often, then they should keep multipathing. The brainless gameplay of flying low and dumping AIM-9Ms now being advanced Fox 3s dumping those along with multipathing being gone would just be worse braindead gameplay
@acdfg3removing multipathing is stupid, thats how missiles and radars act irl, although i do agree it is annoying, gaijin probably (hopefully) will maybe nerf multipathing a bit so that there's a smaller chance of the missile missing but i don't think removing it completely is possible
M4K has seen multiple loadout and other changes during devserver, so there's still hope for you Eagle enjoyers. Also, as long as there are sources for it carrying 8 AMRAAMs, bug reports should do the trick. Unless Gaijin direclty states it's a balance choice, then it'd make no sense.
I think it's kind of common knowledge it can carry AMRAAM on the wing pylons, there's plentiful amounts of pictures of it. It seems this is a balancing decesion so I'm not hopeful bug reports matter
@@SeekerHead Historically common knowledge hasn't seemed to influence gaijin a lot when making these kinds of decisions. I would still give the bug reports a try, even if it doesn't work we'd get a proper explanation for this loadout restriction.
@@MrNPCok,stop coming on war thunder videos just to brag that your game is better, just stfu an use your brain to realise that not everyone can afford a pc to run dcs.
The su27sm can carry 10 r77's irl.... it only has 6 in the game like the f16c with its amraams... there is no bias yall just dont know how to use ur brain
this is what we all need to do, we shouldn't be divided into Us mains vs Usst mains, we should be united as a community vs. Gaijin making fm's incorrect and weapon loadouts historically innacurate, it's not the Us mains fault the su27 cant dogfight how its supposed to, and it's not the Ussr mains fault that the f15 has a bad loadout, its gaijins fault
The argument that the F 15 alone having 6-8 ammrams will make it just like the tomcat is ridiculous. All planes this patch have a pretty high chance to be like the tomcat in terms of spamming missiles and then going back to base. Also, performance doesn't matter as much in top tier if it stays 16 vs 16 and the Su-27 gets 6 missiles and 4 ir missiles at the same time. If the F-15 got the ability to carry 8 ammramms (which it should) it wouldn't suddenly make the Su-27 the worst plane.
right! and all the other jets that can carry 6 fox 3s, couldnt they all be classified as being like the f14? same amount of missiles, and thats clearly what people are worried about
My favorite is people assuming that AMRAAMs weren’t designed with the INTENT of the engagement taking place at BVR almost exclusively 😂 Don’t ask for a technology and then complain when said technology accomplishes exactly what it was designed to do
i just wish su27 got more flares/chaff , i dont think u would even have enough flares/chaff to stay alive long enough to use all your missiles in su27.
I have literally spent thousands of dollars on WT, full hotas and head tracking set up for Sim. But I had to quit because of the fantasy Russian hypersonic fox 1 missiles. It was so absurdly Russian cope and fantasy I could no longer give gaijin more money
@@jesusofbullets"eh stick em wherever they fit cause fuck it why not?" This mentality is the American way of experimenting. (Skunkworks and the like) And i love it. XD
@@Niko_rj Theoretically, the F-15EX could, but they’d need to put pylons on stations 1 and 9, which they don’t do because of potential long term structural issues. Theoretically, he’s right. Practically, you’re right.
@jesusofbullets in theory, F15EX can carry 20 missiles. There are different pylons for different places, even under the hull in place of 4 AIM7, you can install pylons that allow you to carry 2 times more missiles. but in fact this is just an experiment, the prototype of pylons which is not in service and there is no need for it. and the Air Force itself claims 12 AIM120 missiles on F15EX.
Gaigin's problem is that they're always gonna be Russian bias and it's too obvious but whatever, we will always find a way past all that and win anyways
The limited number of AMRAAMs isn't unprecedented. I heard the Su-17M4 should be able to carry up to 10x R-60Ms IRL, but is limited to 6 in game for balance reasons.
I think that every plane in game should have access to its historical loadouts, or at least the most representative ones. At least that's how it used to be before 3rd generation jets were added. That said, I think I kinda see the point of not giving the F-15C the full 8xAMRAAM loadout. Every other top tier jets has only 6 (with 2-4 IR missiles though, I understand that's better) but the F-15C would combine having 8 with a better airframe and radar, making it arguably better for most situations. I think a good balance for now would be giving it 6 AIM-120s (2 more on the outer Sidewinder pylons, for example) or making the AMRAAMs a tier 1-2 upgrade, with stock AIM-7Ms.
It's funny when the MIG-29 first came out with r73s everyone argued that the FM + thrustvectoring IRs is OP but now that it's the F-15s turn suddenly the FM doesn't really matter. :)
As I said in the video, IRCCM is still meta. The gripen for example having the most busted FM in the game while having 6 strong IRCCM makes it very hand hold. Also, at that time there was no other IRCCM missile. Just Russian R73. Good thing it didn’t get pushed to the live server. Your argument doesn’t line up as well as you seem to think.
@@SeekerHead Oh come on dude that's litterly every ru main arguement there was for the 29, "eh, other plane also op so why my plain not op now?". And you argued that it would be better whitout r73 because of "balance" and look what you're doing now. Be honest that it's anoying when one of your favourit jets gets gimped.
Most people were calling bullshit on the R73's, which were coming with much better IRCCM than they do now and enough range to do a full 180° turn and still hit an enemy jet. Also they had no competition until they decided to drop the 9M with it, which made it all the more egregious.
Did anyone ever mentioned the devs how we're still missing 3000 kilos of afterburner thrust in each engine of the F15A, in game we have 8510, that's 18761.34 pounds when is 25.000 pounds each engine which is 11339 kilos, and this information is public and published in the national museum of america, but the SU 27 is close to the real number with 11.660 kilos out of the 12.519 is been published, i wonder why they don't make speeds as they should, and is something i've noticed for the past 4 years.
It's nothing new, many aircraft are like that, check the MiG29s engines. There are many reasons for that like, making the aircraft weight less with less drag therefore needing to reduce the thrust, or in-game's 1kgf is different from RL 1kgf etc. You're just nitpicking at this point or you just wanna play Ace Combat in WT instead cause adding 3000kgf more to the best accelerating plane in game will simply create a UFO but I guess you just don't care.
@@KingMen1Force lmao is one of the many changes gaijin do to make the game slower than what it should be, when you have the word ''REALISTIC'' slap, of course people are going to look at every detail, this is the same with the JA 37, at release it was fast and then got turbo nerf to the paint it barely accelerates, afterburner speeds are no joke, there's a reason jets don't go full burner 100% and when they do you can feel the sense of speed, DCS is the best example, and the F15 is an extremely fast plane, just like the viper, mig 29, SU 27 and others, like the F4 phantoms, which now are a joke of a plane, gaijin just doesn't know how to make speeds, accelerations etc, and they start making their own numbers to ''balance'' things out missing 3000 kilos of afterburner thrust is a big deal.
@@APPLECAKEPIE3477 Slower that it should be? What are you on about? Performance on aircraft in Realistic WT are definitely much higher than on DCS, simulator battles bring it a bit closer but still not comparable. Just try rolling the MiG29 at 1000+ kph in DCS then compare it to WT. In WT the F15 reaches mach 1 faster than any aircraft, just in a mater of few seconds , smoking any other aircraft in game without much effort and you want to add another 3000kgf of thrust? What you're probably referring to is the sense of speed but not the speed itself. It simply comes down to the scenery. In WT the scenery is much bigger than on DCS (like larger mountains etc. ) making the sense of speed feel slower. The biggest issue in top tier WT imo is the instructor and the "balancing of aircraft" but that's a whole other topic.
If you really want to know whats messed up its the RADAR. The only thing similar is the name. Missing basic modes Missing like 60% range getting inexistant soviet radar deficiencies like locking range loss.30% instead of 10% etc I've reported the radar issues since DECEMBER with no avail. The sneaky and disingenous radar dev(kstepanovich) ignores primary documentation like the A2A manual and performance documentation to match it to soviet documentation and a fairytale yefim gordon propagated, the su27s radar is as good as the F15s. And man. AS he is the one doing missile and radars. Once you go through the SU27s, Mig 29s and R27R manuals/technical documents. You truly see how far he artificially buffed them, its wouldn't be surprising to see them buffing them to match them to other missile but straight up making them just overperform anything else...
Man, I hope you do understand that the N001 radar is easily the worst radar at 11.7+ BR (along with M4K’s radar that only has HDN PD) and I hope that your second paragraph is just sarcastic otherwise it means that you never ever touched the Su-27 ig, F-15A’s radar is muuuch better than Su-27’s one even though it has no TWS mode
@@СергейНикольский-я2ц I repeat, I would understand if they tried to match it to other planes or missile but HE just makes it overperform. And unfortuantely I'm not being sarcastic, the values on the game code are exactly the same given on the soviet foreign aircraft handbook and the soviet F15 handbook. AS for the N001/R27 overperforming take at look at the forum discussion, (vympel r-27 alamo history -design performance discussion and go to post 203. It terms of kinematic performance, the R27ER IS accurate but what is completely artificial is the guidance. Its just insane. Look at my bug report for the R27, Incorrect search(acquisition) speedgate for R27 R/ER, search it on the issues website of gaijin. The current value is 1/3rd of RL and smaller than the sparrow. Not even equal to atleast claim balanzz, just overperformance. With such an insanely low guidance limits it can pull unbelievable shots, match it with a fast missile and its just insane. You can see aswell my multiple reports of the APG63 just ignored and closed since december
@@СергейНикольский-я2ц and the funny thing with the R27 is that the speedgate was correct on the dev. But got artificially buffed when the update went live
Why is it that google and other on the surface websites include .mil sites say it can carry up to 8 AIM 120s? With pictures of this and video evidence.. surely their reasoning is towards balance and NOT because they "Gaijin" doesn't believe it.
seek they did a report on the 4 amraams issue, gaijin already acknowledged and trickzzter marked it as a suggestion. Maybe on the next hotfix they'll give it 8 amraams
As I said in the video, there’s no way they didn’t already know it could have 8. There’s pictures of it having 8 all over the internet. Makes it seem like a balancing thing so I don’t think the report will do anything. We’ll see
Gaijin is full of bad decision making. I only play now to waste time and talk to my online friends. I'd love to get them all on DCS but with our schedules and family lives it's a lot harder to get everyone on board. All that being said, where is the US AV-8B+? Why can't the F-111 drop bombs above mach? Why can't most planes drop above mach? Why so many SU-25 variants but only one tech tree and one premium A-10?
ye thats pretty bs aswell, even joob pointed out that 9m's look silly on those huge wingtips, so everyone was kinda expecting amraams on that pylon but i guess the snail said no
Indeed, but there isnt a single plane at top tier that cant make a full 180 degree turn or multiple, from mach 1.1 and not still be roughly supersonic with a little bit of neg elevator tapping. Su27 is just fine for a normal match
The f-15A is missing amraams and tws. The F-15C is missing aim-9X too. The f-14B is missing aim-9M, (I think the F-14A is missing 9L too). Also both F-15s are significantly below their irl thrust to weight ratio, nowhere close to as good irl.
@ttvkyberwolf6659 dude it doesn't have the 9X because of balance, not because it had them. Most planes can have 9Xs or IRIS-Ts or something like that, yet they don't because balance.
omg its locked to 4 fox 3´s, also the F-4f ICE having no HMD, nor good RWR, nor 9Ms, nor more fox 3´s. why are people talking about the F-15C with good flight performance and a lot of good missiles when theres the ICE at 12.7 (basicly 13.0) wich has just got nothing going for it. why is noone talking about how much of a joke the ICE is? and its the only fox 3 carrier for the german tree, its not like "just play the other top tiers") the german tree hasn´t got other actually competitive top tier planes, not for CAS, not for SIM, not for CAS. And then people say "the F-15C will be dead on arrival" what is the ICE? a joke on arrival? i just dont get it.
Honestly though I wouldnt put the ICE below 12.0; Id say 12.3 is where it should be. I know its a dated frame at that point; but it has a very good radar. The new jets are all BVR focused, and this patch seems to focus on BVR and honestly, the ICE can still pull it around in 12.7 as long as it keeps its distance from enemy planes. But Id put it to 12.3 still. The 11.3 meta is already screwed, there is no need to screw it over too much by putting the ICE to 12.0 or lower.
Pov us tt F4E Fighting all aspects and irccm jets Next to no cms Only 9Js 9E2DFs and no 7F/M/9L/M like irl. . . Breh All to represent a wrap up of vietnam modification with agile eagle. . . While fighting 10-20 years newer jets constantly. . . I c r y
@@loneirregular1280 id agree with 12.3 and maybe 12.7, allthought it NEEDS a better RWR, its current one is worse than the F-14As wich is just a joke at 12.7 and makes BVR next to impossible. if it got that better RWR and maybe some more countermeasures it would be fine imo, fine isnt great but playable. i think we can all agree that germany needs good CAS and fighters and alltought the ICE is new, with just the mentioned upgrades it wouldnt really help the situation, it wont make it worse but it also wont fix it
@@mamarussellthepie3995 did you notice that the F-4E has got: 1. the same amount of cms as the ICE, 2. cant face tt as it is 11.0 and tt is 12.7 3. has a WAY BETTER RWR 4.wont face more than 4 12.0 planes at once 5.can and will get downtiered to 10.0. now think of the ICE: 1.7 brs higher, worse airframe, worse RWR, same amount of flares, missiles that are the minimum standart for its br nowadays. would you really say the F-4E is a bad aircraft? (i think so) and if you just answered with yes, isnt the ICE a way worse aircraft and a tt one too? you can get F-15s in the US tree and have fun, germany cant since the ICE is the ONLY fox 3 carrier they get and the "best" tt they have, thats the biggest point IMO, just the fact that you cant get any better aircraft or just play something else.
How much you wanna bet the F-20 wont receive its 4 AMRAAMs it can carry under the wings and the Zuni pods it has been missing since release? Also cant wait to see the update release and the A-6E TRAM still be unusable with its Paveways still being bugged and not working properly despite it moving up in BR twice now and that being the ONLY good A2G weapons it has.
just cus its going to be fine if its either 4 or 8, doesnt mean we should just straight up give up and and say fine to it just having 4, same with the su27 too its not getting the amount of r77s its supposed to be able to carry i think its similar with ICE aswell should be able to carry 8. I feel these are the type of things that if you let gaijin get awy with and time goes on and the community just stops advocating for its one of those things they will just never fix cus they already moved to other shit
Funnily enough from my experience the fucking AAM 3 is garbage but the F15J Kai is still a great aircraft. Radar has some issues with chaff but the HMD is great for the AAM 3s just wish missiles would connect.
I've been complaining about Russian bias for years, only now that you're seeing that it's real. Look at Pantsir and Su25m3, it's killing tank games....
could the f15 not carry 6x amraam and 4x 9m?? the 9m pylons are on the side of the inner-underwing pylons and the amraams would go on the bottom of those same pylons and i dont think they would conflict? no? idk im just an idiot
I mean it's the same exact thing every single update or when they add new stuff they completely limit the United States and give the most to Russia. I quit playing war thunder just because what they're doing to the United States. I play dcs now
LOL i knew it, I called this way back with that whole abrams debacle thing , i just knew they were gonna pull some bs when these missiles came out. tbh expect more of this as you get more and more advanced/modern stuff, cus the more classified the stuff the more BS they can pull
Allegedly ( I don’t know anything about this stuff) it is currently 500 kg over weight. Which, if corrected, should make it almost the same as the F15JKai
F15 lacks 30% of thrust 6000kg / 3000kg on each engine and now they are giving only 4 amramms instead of 8..... If gaijin doesn't fix it then its not anymore ( realistic game) bcs they put they own speed , statistiscs and weapons not like irl...
Not gonna cry bias BUT. I do find it funny that USA consistently needs artificial nerfs to make everyone else competitive. Image if gaijin added in missile tech from the US late 90s like Russia currently has.
Thing is, both ussr and American planes are artificially nerfed in some ways. Us faces overpowered ERs that weren't in mass production until 90s, and ussr has their flight performance cut in half, literally. Mig's and SU's perfomance should be roughly similar to f15's and f16's, while they should fight with regular r27
Amraam 1991 - R-77 1991 Also isn't that funny how russian planes need constant artificial nerf to keep us mains from crying? Mig-21 can do a cobra, but in game it's a flying drift car, Mig-29 and Su-27 are just flying airbrakes that take all the speed they have and convert it into a death by stalling, while IRL they should be very much competitive with their counterparts, worse in 2 circles for sure, but not reach stalling speeds at that
@@aenodarr7936 you are aware the 27er is contemporary to the 120 and r77 right? And its beein in the game for what? 2 years? Not to mention american jets have consistently had nerfed radars and gimped missiles while russian radars and missiles have beend fudged hard
@@aenodarr7936 The R77 never entered service with Russia lmao. Russia's first R77 that they used in service is the R77-1, which entered service in 2015
My issue is that britain gets the B while we get the A. Shouldn't the HOME COUNTRY get the best missile of its kind? Japan got the 7F on their F-16, we got the 7M. It's as simple as that, we simply got cheated out of it.
The A and B are identical both in War thunder and IRL. In real life it’s a logistical electronic upgrade that doesn’t affect any performance metrics of the missile. In other words, it’s irrelevant
The R73 was stronger than it is today and would be competing with unbuffed magics (less pull, less energy retention, no irccm) and aim 9ls (less pull, no irccm) you cant argue that its more balanced. The SU27SM is insane, I have had a consistent 3 k/d ratio in the normal su 27 while only having a 2 k/d ratio in the f15. Having r27ets, ers, r77s and r73 is insane. In my opinion its flight model has been great too. Not as good as the eagle but you can definetly do work with it.
Thry were going to add it with r73s that were in excess of the capabilities thry have now with no counterpart. Do you seriously not remeber that? It wasnt gimped for no reason. If it had been given thag loadout it would have been busted. With the f15 its being artificially limited against planes with superior loadouts.
From my experience, good acceleration, top speed and energy retention are extremely helpful in top tier matches. They give you ability to choose your fights (at least until your allies are still alive), which dramatically increases your survival. F15 is the best plane in this regard
Russia getting its full suite of weapons, some of them breaking the game (vikhyr, 27ER, kh38mt/ml) with no need for the community to lobby for it is what’s exhausting. NATO weapons consistently come to the game incorrect, and require laborious bug reporting and lobbying to have them fixed. It’s exhausting to see Russia continuing to get treated like the teachers pet at worst.
Nah, it's fine. And the mirage 2k-5f will probably stay with 8 missiles, the 6 missiles limit was present on earlier versions of the avionics as far as i know
I just want the F15 to stop breaking its wings when I am manoeuvring sub sonic. I will make 4 120's do the work of 8. But if she is still so prone to wing breaks this becomes very challenging.
Im pretty sure the f15 radar has also the ability to lock people from like 150km cause of dcs. (wich doesnt matter ingame) and so faar if noticed that the amraam seeker head seems to be the best. but it could just be my feeling.
