Is the Gender Pay Gap Real? 

Given the content of the video and many of the comments, it seems like the inverse is happening a lot.

+dave19941000 not really.

Matthew Black If you look at the top rated comments, you'll find that actually yes, really. The brothers even dismiss facts openly in some of their responses.

+dave19941000 like which ones?

Christian Isbister Their response to BBBuild12 comes to mind

+Leap Of Faith All things considered there's a bit of fire but not quite flame war yet.

Too late...

+Leap Of Faith lol he took a leap of faith? ... I'll see myself out

+hannathesinger he took that leap, and as a nerd, crashed and split his pants.

I belive it was a valiant effort that may change some people's minds... maybe....

😂

i think it would be funnier if you said .38 cents because thats .77 of 50c but maybe less people would get it at first so nevermind yours was funnier

Hmmmmmmm, the man is 50 cent....hmmmmmmm.

That's *more* than Fitty Cent!

One more obnoxious musician?

On paper the men make more when they become fathers but the wife still lives the lifestyle without raking in the $$. I would be happier taking care of the kids instead of being at work. But that is seen as a burden and being att work as a privilege.

@@JustAboutToEat that's what I see too. The relationships I have been in indicate an expectation that they will be able to stay home with the kids more than me. After all her dad worked while here mother stayed home, her brothers work while their wives stay home, her sisters stay home while their husbands work. I feel like I'm the one being put in a box yet no one gives a damn.

Men work longer hours when they have kids and women work less

@@JustAboutToEat you do know how hard taking care of kids is right? It's not all sunshine and rainbows Taking care of kids is difficult and stressful and saying women should be happy to stay at home as their husbands provide for the family is stupid some women want a carer not just taking care of kid their whole lives woman shouldn't automatically be forced to take care of kids and stay at home and be happy with it

​@@kayleechristley8861 "I would be happier taking care of the kids instead of being at work." that was what that person you replied to said. Instead you played the victim game and twisted their word and responded "....*saying women* should be happy to stay at home as their husbands provide for the family is stupid....". Cheap debate tactic. If a 21st century woman, from let say the U.S., wants a career instead of taking care of the kids, then she should be discussing that with her male partner before procreate. Maybe some kind of arrangement (childcare) can be agreed upon. If there's no agreement, then find another mate or don't have kid at all. No one can legally force women to have kids in the first place. Social construct dictates that mother should take care of kids yes, but social construct is not a law. If you let society pressures you into be a stay-at-home mom, it's on you, maybe it's on your parents for not teaching you to break social construct, or maybe it's on your partner, or your friends, and so on. But most importantly, it's on you!

+CodeDarkBlue Sometimes when I'm done clipping my toenails, I like to bend the clipped toe nail using my teeth.

With education why can do something about this, dont lost your faith

+CodeDarkBlue Sometimes the most futile fights are the fights that are most important to fight! :D

+CodeDarkBlue watch this RU-vid video if you want to live in Johns make believe paper town fantasy world for 13 year old girls, better than twilight

+CodeDarkBlue Yup.

+JamesBacha Cite your source, please.

+JamesBacha True, and he also didn't mention that men share their salaries more often, which in turn leads to more effective negotiations. That said, I'm still impressed by the ammount of data and perspective he managed to jam into a 6 minutes video. Way to go John

+bananafritter www.nber.org/papers/w18511.pdf

+bananafritter Look at the Freakanomics episode that John lists in the description. That fact is cited by a female Harvard economist.

+Nemo Tu Novi Abstract: "One explanation advanced for the persistent gender pay differences in labor markets is that women avoid salary negotiations. By using a natural field experiment that randomizes nearly 2,500 job-seekers into jobs that vary important details of the labor contract, we are able to observe both the nature of sorting and the extent of salary negotiations. We observe interesting data patterns. For example, we find that when there is no explicit statement that wages are negotiable, men are more likely to negotiate than women. However, when we explicitly mention the possibility that wages are negotiable, this difference disappears, and even tends to reverse. In terms of sorting, we find that men in contrast to women prefer job environments where the ‘rules of wage determination’ are ambiguous. This leads to the gender gap being much more pronounced in jobs that leave negotiation of wage ambiguous." Sorry I didn't post this with the original link. You know how youtube can be. It's a 2012 study and I'm not sure if any other studies have come to the same results, but I still think it's something to chew on when discussing the 'unexplainable' part of the wage gap.

I don't know if that is about the genders involved. Many, many jobs have experienced stagnating wages and a loss of prestige, regardless of the demographic that fills them. It seems like a broader societal issue, imho.

@@hhiippiittyy There has been some serious research done into this effect. Obviously, there are also broader trends and not all stagnating wages are down to this, but it is definitely a thing.

The reason that many jobs have lost prestige and pay is because women got into them before if you wanted to hire a teacher you could only hire from 50% of the population but now you can hire from 100% of population however the demand for a teacher didn't go up as much because each teacher can teach up to 20 or 30 people once you double the supply of labour but the demand kind of stays the same you can expect a loss of value in each unit relative decrease in wages have been happening since women entered the workforce in many professions actually not only teachers (sorry for bad English)

@@mani_saber If this is true then it would make sense. Not anyone's fault individually and women definitely deserve to seek any (legal) profession they want; the diluting of the job market was just inevitable and still supports the commenter's point that women just couldn't/can't win. I mean, it was a net gain since at least they can do the job they want to do, but being paid less than people before you definitely hurts.

There's also such a thing as supply and demand. IF both men and women can work a job, then the pay can go down cause there's just more people to do it. If I was the only school in a 20 mile radius and my application pool doubled due to both sexes now applying for the few jobs I'd previously had, I'd just cut wages and hire more people, which could in turn get me more money from the government because we can get more kids or increase the actual value of the education provided since people can focus solely on specific topics, thus turning it into a private school (at least back in the day) to rake in money as well. There's no reason for me to pay a premium to attract people to apply to what maybe wasn't the "cool job" that most kids turned adults didn't want to focus on or go into in the first place when I don't need to anymore. The illusion that you "Can always be replaced" is kind of what stagnates jobs in this day and age. If your boss threatens that they could have someone in here tomorrow, what's the point of ever raising your wage? Someone would be fine having what you have now. If the pool of applicants suddenly decreased by a bit more than 50% (Because there are more women than men) they'd be way more keen to keep you and thus give you a raise as your talent is actually more valuable now. Same with hiring in general. All this on top of everything he said like paid hours, education, skill, time off, choice of profession, etc. I work in IT and I obviously make more than a liberal arts major which more women would choose to go into in college. Remember, it's literally illegal to actually pay a women less for the same job, so if you do find a job where you're not actually getting paid the same amount of money per hour (Not accounting for raises and the like) you should be able to "Easily" sue and win since all you'd really need to start a case is a male colleague's pay stub vs your own for the exact same hours worked in the exact same position. Actually fight for your supposed income too, don't let people low ball your starting pay, yada yada yada.

Based af

@Dean Turner Fr feminazis dont give af about men's issues

that is called patriarchy. patriarchy was made by MEN lol

yeah, same in poland...

@@nourkhalid7116 of course it had to be the patriarchy

+NoogahOogah It would be nice if I could just trust a "Here's a source, it must be factual", but enough 'feminist' studies have been published and spun that I'm kind of jaded. While he's putting a logical argument together, I can't trust the sources without researching them. Unfortunately, I'm either running into "can't connect to server" problems in source links or finding statistics that are based on a median or average, which still does not accurately portray the 1 man v 1 woman in the same job doing the same work.

Nick Stice I for one share your doubts. Statistics are the easiest kind of data to manipulate, and in the case of sex discrimination, it happens all the time. Even Greene admits that any discrimination would be 4% at most, and I'm quite sure there are factors besides primeval discrimination at play even in that small margin of difference. But Greene is definitely approaching the issue with much more fairness and nuance than most people, and I can tolerate even an extremely far out view when it is articulated with such thoughtfulness.

+NoogahOogah If you think you can go to 1 place to get all your info on any topic and trust it 100% and that place is giving you what you want to hear, you my friend are susceptible to bias.

+0zfer Isn't assuming people stopped after the first source also bias?

no... thats normal fact of life with SJWs

Can I just check something are you male or female or other

+Sophia B why would that matter?

What factors would consider women to value things differently?

the problem is it's 78 cents for women and $1 for men FOR THE SAME WORK

+Stephanie Lang Well try to conjure the stereotypical image of the room of a man living alone... and then of a woman living alone.. Yes... generally men don't clean that often. (which is quiet sad to be honest)

Yes. That probably is part of that 4-8%. I can't tell if you are arguing against the existence of the pay gap or not but the fact that this is a common thing to happen that the male gets the important job and the female gets whatever is available is something that would be interesting to look into

Kind of. It’s also average age. On average whites are much older than other racial groups. The average ages are as followed(rounded): Latinos:28, African Americans: 33, Native Americans: 34, Asians: 36, whites: 43. As someone ages they tend to make more money

? That's a personal family thing.

@@ericmans215 And? Homie, I was 100% down with being with my exes who had potential 6 figure salaries, why is it a bad thing that the girls want to take it easy? Sounds like a positive.

@@IskandarTheWack I don't think it is nessasarily a negative. I think it just might contribute to the gap. It would be interesting to look into more deeply

Spoopy UnamusedDeathGod 2020

You can't commit a basic logic fallacy, mislead your viewers, and expect not to receive criticism. John commits the argument from ignorance when he states the unexplained gap is sexism.

@@jhonklan3794 No he doesn't. That isn't an argument from ignorance. The fact that it exists regardless of of causation is by definition sexism.

@@CoryMck He literally states that we cannot explain this 4% gap, therefore its sexism. That is in a literal sense an argument from ignorance. He provides nothing to support that statement. I could easily postulate that that gap is explained by previous work experience. Secondly, that statement is not even true. When you control for agreeableness you find that the gap diminishes to zero. The issue here is John controlled for 5 factors and assumed it was enough when there are way more factors that could influence income Generally, you can never conclude anything from ignorance. If something is unexplained, by definition you cannot explain it. He states the gap is unexplained, yet goes on to explain it which is a textbook argument from ignorance fallacy. Its like stating, we don't know what caused this house to be destroyed therefore it must be a tornado. Logically, if you don't know something you must stop there, you cannot conclude anything from ignorance.

​@@jhonklan3794 Did you not hear me before? THE FACT THAT THE GAP EXISTS IS SEXIST IN AND OF ITSELF. The gap is not explained by previous work experience. tens of thousands of researchers in economics, sociology, public planning & policy, human resources management have studied it, you don't have to postulate shit, just use your ears. When you control for everything there is still an unexplained wage gap. Trust me, you didn't solve the problem. "yet goes on to explain it which is a textbook argument from ignorance fallacy" It factually isn't. You're either blatantly lying or weren't listening. *"most nonpartisan analysis agree that this part of the wage gap is directly due to gender discrimination. By the way, you can find links and lots of sources in the doobly-doo".* That's not an argument from ignorance, it's scientific data that you simply refuse to acknowledge.

+Ellenore Holbrook Thank you for giving me the encouragement and reminder I needed. I'm logging off comments now to do take care of the kids. Thanks for watching the video! -John

+vlogbrothers Thanks for everything you're doing John! DFTBA

+vlogbrothers I dont want to sound like an ass but can it be said that men are far more likely to be promoted to higher positions of work because they generally exude better leadership skills.

I would like to see some statistical backing to the claim that men are better leaders than women because that's a hilarious claim

+Ellenore Holbrook Statistics is not always the answer; it can sometimes be misleading.

+BF2Cavs If they pay women less, it's because they think women are incompetent and they would like to discourage women from working with them. So they'd keep hiring men because men are seen as more capable and having more potential for leadership roles than women. Male employees would also be promoted into senior positions and managerial positions at a faster rate than women.

+Khoo Wei Cyn no, just no

+BF2Cavs You need to acknowledge the reasons why women are paid less. When I was 13 my teacher told all the girls in the class its totally okay for people to refuse to employ us because 'we will just end up having babies anyway' and needing maternity leave or they would 'waste'; their time training us if we left to have kids. At 13 i had enough common sense to see this happen and know it is wrong. What if im single, i pay just as much rent as a man. If i'm a single mum i rely on that income. If my partner cannot work for whatever reason. If i cant even have kids or don't want them. If you partner is a say at home dad. What if im gay, what then? It's because on the whole it's so ingrained that women are no more then walking wombs and as a society we struggle to shake of traditional roles and expectations. And yes, im planning on being a stay at home mum but until then I still need a job just as much as my male counter part.

+BF2Cavs hahah I know right? woman are more capable than men smarter even! but we pay them less for for better work!!! and not one evil capatolist businessman is exploiting this clear advantage over the competition with 100% female work force? ow sorry strip clubs do usually, lol. , lol hahahahah jesus...lol

+BF2Cavs Yes, if business could really just pay women $0.77 for every $1.00 that men make, for the exact same work, then it would make sense to just hire women in order to cut on payroll costs.

The pay gap groups part-time and full time work together when you just compare full time work the pay gap disappears

you mean the only one you want to believe lol, this guys in the video is a dummy, economists know far more than him about this subject lol

I would recommend looking into Sir Sic’s commentary on this. He does very well at discrediting his claim. Boiling down to choice, women having babies, and natural programming. Such as maternal instincts and how those pertain to their choices, and how males tend to do the more unfavorable jobs such as plumbing, going into waste pits, working for moving companies (lifting heavy furniture), or among others who now have a responsibility to provide for their families.

@@adrianh.3102 women having babies isn’t usually a choice. Most pregnancies aren’t planned, and we can’t get abortions in a lot of places

@@miad6160: You could turn to a orphanage, and I do agree many don’t plan to have children. Many being young careless women who seek thrills or experiences adults have. As cruel as it may sound, that was their decision to make, that is their consequence. A friend of mine was placed with a similar dilemma. A ex wishing to return to him after getting herself pregnant by another man. The man left her, which I had my own vices about. However, she then decided to try to get back with the man she left (my friend), hoping to share the trouble with raising a child with him. My friend said no, that he spent a year trying to get over her and now she comes pregnant from another man, hoping to return to how it was after little to no communication? It is sad, but it was a choice she made, and she placed her faith in the wrong person. Both of them are nineteen mind you. I have even been to middle schools where it was common to see a used condom in a water fountain. Or where students participate in sexual acts in the cafeteria, or in hidden places around the school. Again, that is the fault of them making those choices. Many have ruined their lives only because they put their hopes in the wrong person, through no fault of the child growing within them. Unfortunately the sex culture won’t be going away anytime soon, until we are able to change our mindset, we can only inform people of the consequences for the actions they take. I also have come to know several who regret making the decision to have the abortion, depending on the stage their pregnancy is in. Personally I don’t wish to see it again. Edit: But to say MOST pregnancies are not planned, is a bit exaggerated. Many know the chances and how to prevent it, and think “oh it won’t happen to me” or “It is a safe day”. People tend to gamble with odds saying “It is mostly in my favor”. Sure they may not be planned but it is far from unexpected given prior warning from peers, friends, and family alike. At least from my point of view and experience. Being “You refuse to listen until it is too late or ends up being you in that chance happening to you”.

Parental/bonding leave is covered for moms and dads were I live, idk what prehistoric village you live in

Yeah but there is also the cost of training for an organization as well as the cost of a job becoming unfilled and the lost productivity from it as well as the cost of the new replacement not being at peak efficiency yet due to being new to the game.

iulia Jesus. That’s nuts

@@hufflebuffben welcome to America

@@drnanard9605 welcome to America where woman have the most success and freedom in the known world.

+TutuOnAbridger Since the full text of the study is behind a pay wall here is an article covering similar research. www.newyorker.com/science/maria-konnikova/lean-out-the-dangers-for-women-who-negotiate

I highly disagree, because the links you give don't explain the full context of each situation. If I'm hiring for a position, I'm given a budget. My budget essentially says, "Find the person you can afford. You can be flexible, but go with the best option on your best judgment." If a candidate negotiates too much up front, then it hurts their candidacy. And if more women apply for the position than men, then of course there will be more women who are rejected after negotiating. Many, many factors that are not even mentioned here.

Daniel Meyers The article I linked basically says the opposite: Women who are assertive and aggressive are Punished for it, socially and financially in job interviews. It's not that they are negotiating poorly, it's that women negotiating their salary at all is interpreted as abrasive and makes them seem like "Not a Team Player". Men on the other hand, are also interpreted as aggressive but suffer little to no consequences.

***** Yes I agree, negotiating up front is something that could absolutely negatively affect some one's chances of being hired--I don't think that the institution was AT ALL out of line for rescinding their offer. HOWEVER, the point I was arguing against was that the unexplained gap comes from Women not negotiating their salaries and raises. The counter evidence provided was a study that showed 1) Women do negotiate for their salaries at around the same rate as men, 2) that they are less rewarded for doing so. The article was added was to show that there are other effects going on which might make women less successful at doing so other than simply than vaginas and less testosterone, since the original paper is behind a pay wall and isn't accessible everywhere beyond an abstract. It is not a rigorous scientific study and I never claimed it to be one. The Point being, I don't think that the 4-8% gap is straight up unconscious bias in the way implied by the video--but it is almost certainly reinforced by a type of discrimination. It's not that men who negotiate are always rewarded and women are always punished--It's more like men can negotiate 3-4% higher before the hiring manager starts to think that they're too greedy and rescinds the offer. This doesn't happen to two people at the same time so that your brain can compare, it doesn't even happen in every instance so it's easy to disregard. But the evils of bias show up in the statistics and so maybe, maybe, we should stop writing them off either way and keep looking for the truth of the matter.

Is this study quantitative or qualitative data? How many more replicate the results? Where and when was it done? How big was the sample size?

+Rhea Varma If I had a dollar for every sexist comment on this video, I would have 77 cents for almost every comment on this video.

+Rhea Varma BRILL

+Rhea Varma brilliant move.

Thank you , thank you very much *bows*

that's a funny joke ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Your comment should get an award of its own.... I am changing careers for a lower starting salary because my previous career wont let me and my wife work in the same location if we each focus on our career. So i take a pay cut and start again. Its a multi dimensional issue. Also women are necessary for some part of child care that is irreplaceable. And in a competitive field like engineering you cant push the same hour continous with other priorities. I am doing my masters in another field and sometime i get to here stuff like"At now your are back, I have done it for these many months now you handle the kid". Its not like i dont want to, i am studying after 13 years of working with students 10 years younger while thinking about them. All that effort is overlooked, because men are supposed to be less caring and emotion less. Since we cant get credit we do what we are expected to do, show care by earning more more money at expense of spending time with family, inch for higher raises. Tell me if this is the case why shouldnt there be a pay gap? I expect it to be even higher. PS:- All countries have a gender descrimination law in constitution. If it could be verified its discriminatory it would be sued. Like in my country for govt job the salary is fixed and like inscribed on a stone fixed for everyone to see... most regulated places have that....

This is not the emotion-based, illogical response we see from most women.

@Danny Archer Yet yours is the elitist-based, illogical type of comment we see from most sexists.

​@@allbirdsarecatsThe problem is women are not working equal amount of hours, nor are they as reliable when it comes to working unscheduled shifts or overtime nor are they as willing to move. They call off more and take more vacation time. They are far more likely to take leave during pregnancy and paternal leave after delivering the baby, to care for the baby at home for a few weeks or months. They are not as likely to remain with the company. They are less likely ask for a raise. Please explain to me how you could fill these gaps AND pay the women equally, even pay for all the extra time off!

You've really nailed it on the head here. On the flipside, a lot of young fathers face the pressure to be better providers and will instead work MORE hours in the office or on the job, so that they can provide better for their wives and children. So both men and women face different pressures that lead to men taking on more paid work and women taking on less paid work. I do think women have more freedom in this though. Yes there's pressure to be a supermom, but ultimately you can make the choice to work more hours at work and spend less time with your kids. You do have that choice and it's unlikely to affect your romantic relationships and anybody who criticizes you for not being "supermom" is rightly criticized for being a misogynist. So you have a real choice in front of you. Most men do not have this choice. Not legitimately anyway. They can either be a provider or a provider. Men who sacrifice money and time at work are viewed as less ambitious and are thus less desirable to women. And this is reinforced even by feminist women who still put a lot of emphasis on a man's financial status when choosing a guy. A lot of women seem to think a man should make as much as them or more. Which is weird, because entering the workforce should have freed up women to focus on other traits when choosing a mate, but instead it seems to have made women even more selective, viewing with less financial status than them as "below them", and not worth considering as a future mate.

Sexual Dismorphism is probably a huge factor in this equation.

You won't get an [honest] reply. He calls it "unexplained" but then immediately claims it's due to sexism....despite already admitting that women and men pursue different degrees & careers. There's nothing "unexplained" or even sexist about it. Look at how many women work in the non-profit sector or work in health care. It's staggering. Those fields are low-paying and dominated by women. It's also a CHOICE to take time off work for children. If you make that choice, then you're sidelining your career. Men do that far less, and even when they do have kids, it doesn't biologically sideline them like it does women. If people want the wage gap to go away, women need to start following in the footsteps of men precisely. You can't have it all. The guy that's making more money? Yeah, he's neglecting his family & kids - or he doesn't have any. He's also highly stressed, with men taking the lion's share of suicides and generally having lower life expectancies than women.

"What's causing this gender pay gap?" "Different types of occupations, skill levels, education levels, experience levels. Definitely not in any way due to sexism." "No we factored all of that in and it's now 4-8%" "...Well it ain't sexism." "What else do you think it could possibly be???" ".....Well it CAN'T be sexism."

@@WiloPolis03 There are many, many factors to this, yes it could be sexism but to pick that out from all the factors for no reason other than you want it to be the reason makes the whole thing less credible.

@@henriconfucius5559 No. In jobs where there is an obvious advantage in size, strength, ie characteristics that benefit men such as construction, those factors would be the first to be controlled for.

+Bruce Dobson You know you can't take someone to court because you _think_ you're being discriminated against, right? You need evidence of it first.

***** Yes I know.

+w3irdo13 That's the point. No evidence means it's probably not happening. If I told you I flew down to pick up groceries every couple days and couldn't provide you with any evidence of it (no proof of ownership of a helicopter or genetics proving I'm a human bird hybrid...), you could only conclude it's probably not happening. And even if it is, you can't make something more illegal than illegal. If you do not tell the cops that someone stole your car, it's not discrimination when they fail to get it back for you. And don't even start with the "but they need their jobs and can't risk it" argument. Even if you don't tell the cops about your stolen car because you know for a fact that the person will kill you - as they even full on told you they would - if you say anything about your car, you are not being discriminated against. Fear of repercussions from the perpetrater that keeps the victim silent doesn't mean there is "systematic discrimination" against that victim. And this is even worse, because it's being branched out to a group that victim happens to be in. Using me in that example of a stolen car it's the equivalent of saying people who play games in the Final Fantasy series are discriminated against because I'm afraid to tell the cops that a law has been broken. I mean, I've played Final Fantasy games, so clearly this group I'm ostensibly a part of is oh so harassed. I'm sure I could even find some studies to support such a claim (gamers were once much more looked down upon, after all, and even now hardcore ones like myself still are to some extent), but of course it would be fucking nonsense to even imply such a thing.

Tessa Bain "That's the point. No evidence means it's probably not happening." Except there _is_ evidence. See: the video.

+w3irdo13 videos can tell lots of thing. If i make a video where i say for every 1 dollar man earns women earn 2 dollars, would you believe that?

+Some Rando Perfect

+Some Rando Very well put

I suggest you read some of the arguments in other threads under this video. There are so many reasons why your statement is almost certainly false, which I'd love to get into if I didn't have to leave in a minute (hence why I'm telling you to thoroughly search through these threads and hopefully you'll find the explanations that I'm referring to.)

you could check the dooblidoo and see all the sources for yourself. then at least you would know why John said what he said. maybe somewhere in the sources the factors you mentioned are already mentioned and that 4% is still left! who knows man?

+Some Rando I would love to have a theological discussion with you, but this is the youtube comments... Need I say more???

Can You Give me the link to that study please?

Negotiation

@@ivangomez962 www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.glassdoor.com/research/app/uploads/sites/2/2019/03/Gender-Pay-Gap-2019-Research-Report-1.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwil6d-k7u3rAhVCVK0KHS2CDX4QFjACegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw1Ygk22CoBCI_YYTvEYj07Z&cshid=1600265716912

Just to make sure: I still believe a big portion of the unexplained wagegap is due to discrimination, just not 100% of it. And I totally agree that 4-8% is a lot and definitely too much.

But if it is'nt discrimination what is it? Becuase in these studies and statistics they have counted away everything that makes sense to change the wage. And the only noticable diffrent that is left are the gender of the person. So right now with ta data we have I think It's pretty safe to say that it is discrimination. But really what else do you think could explain it? Becuase I can't think of something wich is why I think this way.

+Iller Well it can't account for how men and women negotiate for their raises for example, can it? What if women are just more lenient and accept lower raises than men? I assume that's another reason why the pay gap grows with increasing age since this effect multiplies over time. I mean I'm not sure and it's just a hypothesis, but here you go :).

+What's Their Name Again? +DN Swag Did not think about that, thanks :) Hope that will be counted in with the statistics in the future

+What's Their Name Again? - "Other than that, it was an excellent video. " HAHA what? How can it be an excellent video if it just assumes as true the very thing it's trying to prove? That is a logical fallacy known as "begging the question."

They don't listen to reason...

The pay gap increases after college, when men and women go into serious long term careers.

***** But that goes against the idea that companies don't hire young females in fear of pregnancy.

+Dave it goes further than that even: Men are more likely to move for jobs, work nights, start businesses, etc.

+Dave Not just outdated. It was never a true representation of how men and women are rewarded for work

Did he say it was explicit malice towards women? Data demonstrates a bias between sexes: strictly based on definitions, this pay disparity is sex-based, therefore sexism. That doesn't mean men or the powers that be are intentionally paying less...the data we've been given here doesn't demonstrate that. But it does give us a starting point: we know there's a pay disparity across countries, careers, and income levels: how can we determine the causes of this?

@@goldenquill96 its sexism of coursr duuuh. Turning sarcasm off now.

No. But Sidh believes that whatever it is, it must NOT be sexism. So we have his view lol

No, that's the funny thing about unexplained phenomena, we dont know what causes them, so we only have ideology and guess work to go on. However, if businesses could save 4-8% on labor by only hiring women why would they ever hire a man?

Here's the possibilities that he eliminated: -Skill levels -Occupation types -Employment rates -Education levels -Levels of experience Here's all the possible explanations left: -Gender inequality -It's all a lie????? I don't know???? That's as narrowed down as it gets.

I know right? People in their 50s are more likely to stay until they retire, more likely to have more experience, less likely to go on maternity/paternity leave... why don't people want to employ them?

Except women do work those jobs but at largely reduced rates. It's not sexism, it's shit applicants.

@@conlon4332 Because with age comes higher health risks, read the damned policies for a change.

@@jnewgot Hi Jenna. You recently pissed me off on one of my comments. While replying I realized that my original comment was mistakenly posted on John Green's video and not on the RU-vid Short it was meant to go on (I had two windows open). This youtube short was a guy asking a girl what the gender pay gap was and she fumbled her way through a bad explanation. I hated the video because it painted this girl in a bad light and implied the gender pay gap wasnt real without giving any sort of fact whether it was or not. I came to John's video because ive watched it before and knew it was informative and I wanted a reminder. I deleted my comment as it literally made NO SENSE as a comment to John's video. I blew up at your comment thinking it was a poking of fun at my critique of a mysogynitic and misleading YT short. I now see that is not the case and that you did not deserve the replies that followed. So I apologize. I still dont like you though. Correcting you're/your on the internet is cringe and has been since Myspace.

@@BluesJayPrince I didn't correct it, you did. I merely pointed out the amusing irony of it. Though, I'm so glad that someone who knows nothing about me finds me on another video just to tell me they don't like me. 💋

The way he is putting it makes it look like they should get paid more simply for going home early to do housework instead of staying at work. There is no wage gap, an earnings gap, yes but no wage gap.

As an economist, I can confirm everything that Katelynn has said here. Good on you, for doing real research and critical thinking.

Jesus Christ Where is the evidence of this? Claiming it doesn't make it so. If women get paid less because the CHOOSE to leave work earlier than men, then that's their own fault. Tell them to start crying after they make up around 90% of work related deaths.

Jesus Christ Do tell, where is your degree in Economics? That's right, you have none. It's a shame your mother didn't swallow.

Jesus Christ I'm sure it did.

+bullpcp I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I personally think the last 4% to 8% is due mostly to risk preference.

+bullpcp Just to be clear, I would not be super shocked if the last 4 to 8% had some discrimination in it. But they make no suggestion as to how to ferret it out. Like suppose a man demands a raise after good project, but his female employee is too nice or timid to demand it. Is that discrimination? Or suppose a man is more willing to travel or work at field office away from his family, but the woman does not want to leave town. As such the man has more opportunities to impress more people. Is that discrimination? Or suppose that a sexist boss slips in a $1 raise to a male employee. How are you going to identify this sexist boss from a boss of female employee who overestimates her value? All the signals of quality will be the same for an outside job. To me, this gender wage gap feels like whining. No one except radical feminists are offering solutions, and usually these take the form of gender based taxes, subsidies, and hiring quotas. I don't want a tax on me just because I have a dick.

+TC Coltharp I think women being too timid to ask for raises might be a product of societally enforced gender roles. So while it may not be directly due to gender discrimination by the employer ("I'll pay a woman less"), that still makes the gap a product of discrimination. Just a more subtle form of it.

+mickeynotmouse Do you have a solution or are you just whining about reality?

TC Coltharp Well being aware of these societally enforced roles goes a long way in changing my personal behavior so that I'm not part of the problem. In the same way, if awareness of the issue continues to spread, most people will also change to a more progressive behavior, and slowly but surely, these roles will become a thing of the past, and the wage gap could close as a consequence. In other words, change is about our attitude and the language we use. And in this case, I think a situation where the majority begins to encourage career competitiveness and assertive traits that lead to better wages (in women as well as men), is perfectly plausible

I didn't expect to find you here, Paleo Analysis!

"Significant" is a word that has a scientific meaning beyond the colloquial use as a synonym for "a lot". It refers to statistics: When you have a difference of 5% or lower it is used to say that the difference ist so low that it could well be due to chance. For example, when you toss a coin and get 45% heads and 55% tails the result would count as non-significant, a.k.a. "based on that we cannot claim that the coin tends towards heads because the difference between results is too small."

@@RandomizedCTRL you think that the studies haven't taken this into account? also if differences of less than than 5% are suddenly evil there are still many studies which out it higher than that, indicating that it is both statistically significant (that the pay gap exists). i just don't get what point you're trying to make with this. im very aware of the different meanings of significant, but its usage is relative to context. differences of less than 5% can mean a lot, especially in economics. we don't just throw out economic studies of say, inflation, that notice a less than 5% change just because its a relatively small amount. statisticians don't just blindly throw out anything they get that's below 5% just because it's low, especially in this case where other studies corroborate it.

EXACTLY!!!

I think we can all agree that at least in the us 🇺🇸 the pay gap exist but not because of gender. There are dozens of variables that are not acointed in. Such as jobs that women take, more women take care of children at home, men tend to work more hours, etc. The gender part of the lay gap cannot exist because it is literally illegal to pay someone less for the same job just because of race or GENDER. Unless the business wants to be sued.

@@Holy_VHS_Tape no no you don't understand, the 4-8% pay gap TAKES THOSE INTO ACCOUNT. you think researchers didn't think about that in the dozens of studies on this?

its almost like he skipped over all of that because it didn't fit the agenda. hmm.

+MrSoupdog and yet "unpaid work hours" is relevent?

+DownloadDeX Listen, this guy makes most of his living off the internet. The Twitter-twats could ruin this guy completely. Hes got kids to feed. Don't expect him to rock the boat. It's not fair to him.

***** I mean unpaid house work isn't on topic either. And the salary negotiation issue is VERY much on topic.

FortuitusVideo I am perfectly willing to discuss this with people. I personally do believe there is gender discrimination in the workplace. But I also believe we need to adequately identify the real issues from the imaginary ones.

Sexism of the gaps. Not a surprise coming from someone religious, I guess. They do love their god of the gaps arguments.

+Hokibukisa looking for someone who made this point and you are right. Just because you can't explain somehting doesn't make it discrimination god or whatever other talking point. You have to prove it. Nice

You're right, but without further evidence its difficult to say that it isn't due to discrimination either. At this moment, we just don't know, and that's that.

+Hokibukisa The exact quote is, “Most non-partisan analyses agree that this part of the pay gap is directly due to gender discrimination. By the way, you can find links to lots of sources in the doobley-doo.” John never said he was an expert, nor did he make solid, unequivocal claims like you suggest. He is just reporting his research on the findings of social scientists who have studied this topic.

+Hokibukisa you can't know either way. but you most often hear guys making sexual comments about their coworkers and not vice versa. just a thought.

Wage gap is real. Proof: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-xRbT09r8ekc.html

same but 5 years🥴

@@haydid no, it isn't. Men work more than women, period. Name a SINGLE business that intentionally pays women less. Why don't companies just hire women ad pay them less?

@@godsrevolver9737 It was joke video about simps making girls earn more than boys in streaming industries. I only said that wage gap is real, I never said men are paid more.

@@haydid so it isn't real, then. 🤦🏻‍♂️ "it's a joke" is probably the absolute dumbest defense I've ever seen. Was it a joke even though you didn't OBVIOUSLY convey that it was a joke?

+N Jones It would be a problem if it was actually happening.

It is happening. The paid gap is a real thing.

Yes but it's not due to discrimination, it's because of different career choices men and women tend to make.

+Jenkins I never said it was discrimination. I just said that it was real.

+Jenkins except were talking about pay in the same job. Like op said already. Which this video talks about.

+Ineta Life Sally because MALE PRIVILEGE of course. You know how this works.

+Rozmic Tumblr in a nutshell

+Ineta Life Well this is a rigged question. Few people get paid via a per product method (At least if your not self employed), however, yes the worker who provided the fewest numbers in terms of products would receive the lowest pay.More or less what your doing is constructing a scenario to use as a example in which the only logical step is to admit that Bob should make more then Sally. Therefore everybody else's opinion on the subject is automatically wrong.This is real life however where things aren't perfect. Worker skill, career goals, ability to work overtime, etc... all work into how much somebody is willing to work and their efficiency at getting said work done. You example uses a example of physical work, which I will admit on the average most women cannot lift as much as men. If we look at most jobs these days however they are not very dependent on physical strength. A worker of either gender can work harder than the rest at McDonalds, Walmart, in accounting, customer service, running a business, etc.Basically what I'm trying to say is that your example is worthless for actually talking about wage discrimination. It's more of a tool for making yourself feel good.

Did you watch the video?

Gabriel Schulze Tumblr is merely an outlet. Schools, universities, entertainment and MSM are where it starts.

Good point

@@manueladasilva6748 i dont get the point they were trying to argue against

Okay incel

+BeFaLcon 94 Obviously not as smart as he thinks he is

+BeFaLcon 94 bias has nothing to do with intelligence. it has to do with the fact that anyone can be mistaken. einstein refused to believe quantum mechanics existed and is often quote-mined as having said "god does not play dice with the universe" as part of his dismissal of quantum. quantum mechanics are regularly used in labs everywhere on earth today. was einstein dumb? no, he just had blind spots, like everyone else.

+BeFaLcon 94 He gave Sources in the Dooblily Doo. Lurn2Read

Also my point was bias not that he was wrong. yes the information is there. does not mean its accurate or that he has presented it correctly

***** 1: expecting a thinking feeling human being to be 100% unbiased is unrealistic. 2: If you have a problem with this sources, please be specific.

Get off your high horse, dude, I meant that the comment section is full of banal, repetitive arguments and idiots like you.

"Don't look at the comments" Why not? Maybe you will learn something.

But to be honest, no one in the comments section (on both sides) is going to change their opinions. Everyone's adamant that they're in the right.

Too late, bro. ;-; Game over, man, game over.

All I see is constructive criticism, but hah, whatever makes you feel better about your confirmation bias.

+

+Evil Power Oh I'd also like to know where tax breaks for families that are pumping out kids and where are these same Tax breaks for single men and women that don't marry or have kids and how this effects over all earnings. See I can't find this info because it's behind pay walls and I don't make the kind of money to continue to debunk your video.

+Evil Power .youtube . com/watch?v=Lc1IKDsvO3E What is a stay-at-home mom worth? This is the blue pill pandering, the excessive praise you hear from a husband about his wife, it is flattery, but on a societal scale. Are home depots filled with just contractors and women? Because this is the world these people like to pretend exists. If only it were true that most wives were handy women who could fix cars to toilets. Companies have tried to sell women power tools by making them pink, this wouldn't be necessary at all if they had been the primary buyers all along.

+Evil Power Brilliant point, who exactly is supposed to pay me to spend quality time with my son while my wife is out getting her hair done? Where's my paycheck for doing my own dishes? What corporate entity would subsidize my power use for using my laundry machines? Those hours shouldn't have been taken into consideration in this context. We're discussing the pay gap for time worked on the clock, this argument for considering time off the clock is irrelevant.

+Airoch4 Umm its not irrelevant because those are mutually eclusive but interdependent events. The more you have to work off the clock the less you can work on the clock. So even thugh you as a person may feel like u did a whole lotta nothing the whole day...in general women are left with household chores as a their gender-imprinted expectations. While I dont believe women are the only victims of society, they are a victim nonetheless. So I dont feel the need to decline the wage gap to feel sympathetic towards male-centric problems, like persecution of male nurses, non-athletic men and men who simply express their emotions.

+Evil Power Calm down, you don't have to question all the work John and Hank does because of a single video, in which John doesn't lie on purpose, he just fails to see the whole picture. You are being quite harsh on him.

There is a common misconception about the wage gap and despite what it's name would imply it isn't calculated by comparing paid wages. It's actually calculated by dividing the earnings of women by the earnings of men with any given time frame. That's because, like you stated, it would be far more lucrative for a business to employ more women than men if you could get away with paying them less. I'ts not about women getting paid less than a man for the same work. It's about women earning less than men over a stated period of time. I wish they would call it the earnings gap but feminist propaganda prevails. What I'm about to type isn't representative of all men and woman but is offered as an analogy to how the wage gap is determined by using earnings instead of paid wages. I'm not saying that every woman or man fits these descriptions but it's representative of the statistics across the board. Imagine a man and a woman both get hired at meat packing factory for the same hourly wage. Over the course of a year the man chooses to stay more often to work overtime and chooses not to take days off for his children. The women chooses to work overtime only when it's mandatory. She chooses (or is obligated to) to take multiple days off for school events, doctors appointments, etc. Now if we were to individually add up the man and woman's earnings over a year then divide the woman's total by the man's total it would show that he earned more money at a certain percentage. That's the wage gap. So why do people call the wage gap a feminist myth? Because feminists don't understand the difference between earnings and wages. They blame the, so called, misogynist male patriarchy for paying women lower "wages" instead of recognizing that the gap is based on earnings. It's not that that gap doesn't exist when you look at the data. It's that the data exists because women and men are freely allowed to makes choices and that, on the whole, they tend to make different choices that affect how much they earn.

steve Thraxx Copy-paste or written out yourself?

inferno I wrote it out. :P

and if women really earned less than male counterparts they could just go to their boss and ask for more and if they don't they could sue.. if you know.. she really has done the same work and hours as men..

P1Tz0N csgo Women can't sue for discrimination simply because they earned less than a man and their employer didn't want to pay her for work she hasn't done. When one person earns more than another person who's making the same paid wages it always comes down to hours worked. So if two people making the same paid wage work a different number of hours one person is naturally going to earn more than the other.

+Field Marshal Fry yes please i ran out during the fine brothers fiasco

+Field Marshal Fry Yes please! *holds out popcorn bucket*

+ashley beaumont , field Marshall fry.

may I have butter with that?

+ashley beaumont What did I miss? I don't watch fine brothers / use twitter / ...

+RFE Very interesting take on it. I'm glad I scrolled down.

agreed, interesting idea

+RFE Interesting points. However your last one does bother me slightly. Childcare vouchers aren't more favourable to women because both men and women should be taking care of children and not just exclusively women. So both benefit from them

Michelle Murphy LBH the vouchers are aimed at single mothers, not fathers.

+RFE Woman compared to men are horrible negotiators which is a factor in starting salary. hbr.org/2014/06/why-women-dont-negotiate-their-job-offers/

However, that is also just an assumption for the starting wage. Also, the one study showed that resumes from females got lower starting wages. That would be without negotiation.

+Drama_Llama_5000 Probably because of one of two things:1. women are more likely to accept low wages and not ask for more.2. people assume men are the financial providers of families, therefore they need more money for their wife and kids.

of course its an assumption but I didn't mean only the starting wages. you can ask for an increase later too. (i meant this without any connection to the resumes.)

Women who ask for a raise are less likely to get one than a man. This may explain why fewer women ask for raises.

+warxdrum Yeah, I'm just referring to the gap present in the video. Also, the likelyhood of women asking for raises and employers assuming the man is providing for the family fall under the social expectation part of this. Definetly a very complex thing.

(description)

That she’s a crappy employer and that women are more inclined to walk away from the toxicity as they can leverage a decent spouses salary. WHY are the women walking…?

Yes. Yes it is. But it's not illegal to push entire demographics towards lower-paying jobs through an insidious cocktail of accepted biases and unconscious discrimination. Next time watch the whole video before you start waggling your fingers.

+saltypork101 Oh, the "Patriarchy" again?

saltypork101 Can you prove the existence of this "cancerous appendix"?

Earthling Carl Yes.

saltypork101 Ok, you're a troll, ta-ta.

+ADevilNeverCry www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2015/time-spent-working-by-full-and-part-time-status-gender-and-location-in-2014.htm

+ADevilNeverCry did you even watch til the end of that sentence? He then said that men work more *paid* hours

+ADevilNeverCry and that link just confirms it, so what is your point?

+Timefliesbye The 8% is the gap unaccounted for in economic factors. Hours worked being one of those economic factors.

+Miren Summers Yes that's exactly what he's saying. But what ADevilNeverCry is saying is that the claim that there's women working unpaid hours (well, actually MORE unpaid hours would be required to make sense) is nowhere to be seen. It's a claim he just made. Check his links. It's nowhere to be found. He also mentions it multiple times. Doesn't explain himself at all. Doesn't even give us enough information to do a basic search on what he's referring to. He could be claiming that there's institutions having women slave for them. Meaning they get forced to do work unpaid. Which could be true of course. But he's not backing that up in any way. Do you really expect yourself to be that gullible and just take his word for it? I get insulted. But I'm pretty easily offended. edit:to be clear his "unpaid work" idea is a family issue. What do you expect companies to do? Offset those 101 hours? No just choose better men you gits.

I am confused as to how someone can see a video like that and respond in such a way as you just did. I would like to know why you think the gender pay gap is propaganda, and who is propagating it and to what end?

Usually people conclude there is a gender pay gap, but the reason for that gap is always sexism, they never look at the different working habits of men v. women, i.e. how much time they take off work, do they volunteer to work overtime/weekends, DO THEY GIVE BIRTH TO CHILDREN? The average dad will take off much less time from work than a mother would, that alone can affect your career.

Women are different than men! That isn't debatable! They have an entirely different damn chromosome! They have different levels of hormones and brain development!

I'm not dismissing that fact, I'm saying that it is dangerous to dismiss the whole issue as women being different than men. Did you read what I said?

Evil Duck Sure they’re different. But I’ll ask, completely rhetorically (meaning I don’t really care), does that mean to you that they are less deserving of equal pay or the same rights you have? Not trying to take a side, just raising a question

She is one of the few feminists whom I would give my respect.

+Phil Thomas she's not a feminist

What does it mean to be a feminist?

sgad fly She is the only *actual* feminist I have ever seen online, all these other fake-fems don't deserve to use the title.

She considers herself a Feminist and unless there's a leadership structure all of a sudden then she's a Feminist. Please define what a Feminist is, and what she does that disqualifies her for the title.

It's because women are natural whiners...

Latiman95 "there are probably thousands of women that die to protect the USA" - proof?

+Latiman95 i think it's pretty widely known that if you are a pretty woman that you will get treated easier. You'll get easier sentences if you commit a crime and be treated like a pwecious pwitty fwower

***** 11 million military personnel died in WWI, 400 is nothing if compared to that.

+Joe Bernard Jobs women won't do? The army was meant to descriminate women, it wasn't a personal choice by anyone. But when the U.S talked of letting women into the army, everyone was outraged because they "couldn't do the job". And during WW2, you might have remembered women just as well picking up the slack, taking place of the men back in the states to show support for our troops. The death gap is a product of belief women can't do the same. They "simply won't do" these jobs because they aren't allowed to.

Oh, holy crap, this is actually good.

+AgentOracle disagreeing with your assumptions != a flame war. If you can't deal with people freely expressing opinions that might run counter to yours, the internet may not be the best place for you.

+mwells219 I have two critiques of this. One. Assumptions. The opinions expressed in this video are based in statistical fact. They are not simply blind assumptions. Secondly, AgentOracle was not saying that people could not express their opinions. They were simply saying that the rage and sorrow expressed in RU-vid comments are a great way to roast marshmallows. Which I happen to agree with.

Except that the only emprical data that he used in his argument is that the "pay gap" is actually not as large as any feminist claims it is and then just said that the remaining small gap exists because of sexism without providing any proof to support this argument.

+mwells219 +mwells219 I'm not sure if you watched the video or not. He clearly uses graphs multiple times and quotes statistics to back up and explain those graphs. As for the 4-8% pay gap he clearly says "most nonpartisan analyses agree that it is due to discrimination." John does back up his claims, even if he doesn't show us ever article that he has read.

striker113 But it is true, and you can do that. Easily. It's just that not everyone knows about it.

that wouldn't work lol

some one NAME VALENCIA And you know this how?

cause if I had the same job as u then yes but if you were know as junior or assistance (blank) then it's not even discriminating xD also if you listen he explained why because girls with kids takes more days off / or work for no money

some one NAME VALENCIA I know full well. I said nothing that even slightly conflicts with that. That's why it's better called the "earnings gap". I was only saying that if for some reason your boss was paying you less for the same amount of work, that's illegal.

Okay, so I wasn't the only one horribly confused about how women should be paid for housework or whatever he was talking about?

trapd00rspider Well, depends on how you define splitting labor. If I go out and work a 9 to 5 job, I'd expect my spouse to do the housework. The labor would be split between: Me earning money so we can afford life and such, and my spouse maintaining a liveable, clean household, helping care for the children, and providing meals. If you ask me, that's split labor, yet - from what I understood from the video - there's something wrong with women working at home? Or, for some reason, women should be paid for working at home? In all honesty, I'm confused by it all, but maybe I'm just some dumb woman who needs feminism, I dunno :PPP

The segment on house work was more about, in my opinion, women are expected to do more work around the house. A lot of working women also have to go home after work and do chores and take care of children while it's not really expected of men to do that. Therefore, men can spend more time focusing on their jobs and not outside work.

***** OOkay! I don't nesscisarily agree with that point he made, but that DOES make much more sense as to what/why he was saying this. Thank you very much for clearing this up for me :)

+Cynthia King I know in America to live comfortably in a household with out living check to check both partners in a model family need to work. that's the reasons the phenomenon called the "Second Shift" is a reality. America isn't Egalitarian neither can an average household live comfortably with only one source of income. Unless of course the main source of income makes proportionately huge amount of money.

What you're describing as "evolution's fault," people who understand basic things call "inherent sexism." Everything after that is gobbledygook.

+giga1452 It would be nice if women "being more assertive" would automatically give them equal ability to achieve higher positions in the work force. But the truth is that our society does have preconceived gender roles. That means that women are expected to act and behave a certain way, just as men are. Unfortunately, women who try to break these barriers ARE often seen as bitchy or ruthless or coldhearted, the opposite of what women are expected to be. This isn't always the case, of course, but the expectation of women to be more submissive is what makes it difficult for them to reasonably fight for higher positions. To write off such stereotypes as a myth is to disregard a major social factor in an incredibly complicated issue.

+giga1452 There definitely are biological factors, but if we as a society can recognize that, we can work to surpass those factors. I mean, there are a pleanty of biological and instinctual behaviours that people don't act on because it's wrong to do in our society. Also some perceptions/behaviours are shaped by the culture we live in. Men are more assertive in part because that is the cultural expectation. If we can change our expectations, then we can begin to encourage both men and women to assert themselves.

+JJ Yu Please... Here where women can divorce, take the kids, take the house, and rob far more than their fair share from men? Sorry that men also happen to be much more likely to DIE on the job, (as they generally work much more dangerous jobs,) and are more likely to pursue high paying careers. If it was true that an employer could pay minorities and women less than men, then why would he not only hire them?! These things are complicated and there are many MANY factors in play... I know that his message is going to be appealing to the majority of his demographic audience, but it is not based in reality and panders to things that are beyond our justly coming to a definite conclusion of. i2.wp.com/www.avoiceformen.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2014/09/infographic-.wagegap.png?resize=816%2C1056

+giga1452 how can you not see the connection between assertiveness, perceived strength and patriarchy? your points could make great arguments in the opposite direction.

He deliberately skipped out info and went to "distrimination"

Nice

@phoenixkhost It's amazing how you can get within an inch of understanding and then just completely miss it.

@phoenixkhost I can't tell if you're trying to say that because I'm young the snide comment that I made is poor, of you just meant to type "unfortunately for you, you're". I don't want to be a pedant but it kind of matters in this case.

@phoenixkhost After a certain point you realize the people still getting this wrong won't accept anything as credible or reasonable. People like you are not wrong because they haven't been shown the right evidence. You're wrong because you have other bad opinions creating a block for things like this. I can't change your mind, but perhaps people who haven't made their mind up yet will see these comments and realize who's right.

@phoenixkhost Sure, I can clarify for you. It's not like there's an entire video just above the comments I've made explaining it all. Wage gap is real. People who continue to deny that at this point likely do so because of subconscious bias, though many still do it from conscious bias.

+Homini Lupus Welcome to the world of DIVORCE SETTLEMENTS!

+Homini Lupus hahhaha this is very funny

+Chordstruck Pony This. This a hundred times.

+Homini Lupus took me a second. i laughed harder than i should have.

+Homini Lupus lol

+Curtis Smale Hate to be that guy, but it's spelled Tumblr. Why? Who knows?

Alexis Burns Seriously? And who makes these women feel they need all this shit? Men will take anything with a vagina. It's women that pressure themselves to be attractive. As for gendered pricing, that is another one of the feminist myths that exist out there. TL;DR did a nice little expose on this where he showed the comparative ingredient differences and pointed out how the products are NOT the same even tho they appear to be the same. And often this is because of the physical differences between men and women but also because men often want things simple and don't desire the extra "3 in 1" and other nonsense. But all that is irrelevant as there is no one stopping women from buying male products and using those instead. But let's suppose that gendered prices are alive and well and let's take the pay gap seriously as well. www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35486308 This says that price gap is 7% and I've heard that the wage gap is 23%. So what about the consumer spending gap? Oddly there is no data for this after 20 minutes of research. Almost like no one cares. But let's do some math to figure out what that number would have to be to balance things. If women make 23% less and pay 7% more then female spending SHOULD appear to be about 81-82% of men in total cost. So the market share should be split roughly 4:5 which means that 44.4% of spending should be done by women with 55.5% done by men. But women spend more money than men do in the market. Who knows how much because no one has a web page source. But the fact that women are spending more money than men shows that they are getting money from somewhere other than employment to do it. If they only spent what they earned then women would not be ABLE to spend as much as men. And where are women getting that money? Oh yeah, that's right, men. Usually through joint bank accounts within marriage. Man works, woman spends. So like I said, women ARE making more money than men, and quite a bit more than 7%. But not all of it comes via a taxable paycheck through employment. Some of it comes through being married and sucking out sections of a man's paycheck.

Ben Garrison A terrible sexist system created by women. It ain't men demanding women wear makeup or specific clothes. It's women competing with each other for men's attention which they are NOT required to do.

Alexis Burns Congratulations on quote mining me and applying sophistry to the max. Try reading my entire post next time.

+Curtis Smale Hmmm. But if you're talking about man and wife, that's shared household income isn't it? If we're talking about meritocratic type wage earning, even if a wife were to get a lot of her husband's earnings, that would not be constituted within a pay gap and doesn't necessarily have any bearing on the issue of women having unpaid labor since she does not have any rights to his money legally. Same if the roles were switched. Because having that type of joint income (unless you have kids) is definitely 100% personal choice [except in extreme spousal support cases but I think we all know spousal support is bullshit and doesn't need to exist anyway so...]

No she just works in a field that pays more

Like you can’t compare someone who’s a lawyer with someone who’s a supermarket worker, even if they both work the same hours the lawyer will get payed way more

as he said, it's a complicated issue, so there is still plenty to argue about, no worries there ^.^

Nigel Cooper I can completely agree with that :)

Exactly, people are too uncompromising and entrenched in their own opinions. Key to truth is an open mind

***** hahaha! Me neither!

***** there is no right side. Each argument has their validity. These open ended circumstances are crazy

absolutely no other conclusion to draw

I want to be paid 30% more as a white man because asian men on average get paid more than me... I realy hate the wage gap myth.

That is what we call a fallacy. He could be right, however his logic does not point to sexism causing the wage gap. It's also circular reasoning: there's a pay gap so it must be sexism which causes a pay gap. That logic sounds more like the start to an echo chamber to me. Still love the vlogbrothers (no sarcasm).

Yeah, it's funny. I never called a girl "babe" yet they always called me that or "honey". I actually like being called a pet name. It's sweet and makes me feel good. I wish people could just say, "I like that" or "I prefer no nicknames, please." Sucks everything is generalized and I can't call girls these endearing names :( Guess I'll have to stick to "Sarah"

It's not his logic, it's very careful research--look at the references he provided before making the claim that it's a logical fallacy (if you have and still think that, that's up to you). And how can you explain away the fictitious resumes that proved men were more likely to be offered jobs and to be offered higher salaries, especially if the applicant had children?

***** To address the fictitious resumes, and I'll be very clear here, as an employer I would find it unprofessional and inappropriate for someone to put down they are a parent to try to gain leverage to get a job. It would make me feel that you would prioritize being a parent over work. Yes, it is important to put family first, but in the process of getting a job it isn't "work force" experience and therefore would be out of place. Further along in the hiring process would be a better time to bring it up even though I believe both should be separate. It's like saying, "I have serious priorities over getting this job so I should be the first to get this job." It has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with the first impression of the resume.

Women have been shown to have higher standards of cleanliness. It's literally their own fault they spend more time cleaning.

If they want to point fingers that women don't get paid for picking up the kids from daycare and BS like that then let's be equal and fair about it. Men also tend to do the house chores such as lawn work, taking out the garbage, cleaning the gutters around the house, doing little fix it jobs here and there, taking care of the family vehicle, and etc. And guess what that's all unpaid labor as well. So his argument is shit. It's called life and just because someone has a vagina does not afford them extra notoriety for living life. The point is you don't get paid by your employer for stuff you do that's not related to our employment. Case closed.

They still spend more, and economic spending is dominated by females. So funny they don't have to earn as much to spend more.

What does that have to do with how much someone earns in the workplace? Just because someone spends more then they should get paid more just because of that reason? That's illogical. If you want more money then "earn" it. Don't expect someone to just hand it to you on a silver platter because you have a vagina. Funny that actually because that's how historically women have gotten most of the things they have in this country. It was just given to them without requiring anything in return. If that's the case I should get paid more than just about everyone else because I spend a heck of a lot of money on crap every month.

NeoFunk "Just because someone spends more then they should get paid more just because of that reason? That's illogical." And if anyone was making that point, I'd want to smack them. Women make equal pay for equal work. Their constant use of fallacious methods to prove a wage gap shows they are just trying to push a narrative. Assholes like this guy in the video make me very frustrated.

no because then the pay would naturally rise as a consequence of there being only women. It’s a comparison and that’s why they are payed less. Additionally, it doesn’t make sense at all since essentially this admits they pay less. It’s not because it doesn’t exists. Statistically, at least according to this video there is a pay gap.

@@mutsuhamiyoshi944 Wrong. When a multi-variable analysis is done with any shred of credibility the gender pay gap disappears due to disparity in hours worked, danger of the job performed, and women's propensity to exit the workforce to rear children.

TheMetadaemon because employers have to compensate for the risk of expensive paid maternity leave.

Not necessarily. More common is women simply working fewer hours, e.g. leaving work at 3:00 to pick up the kids from school.

Respectfully, it would make sense if your country had a recquired maternity leave, like every developed country. But it doesn't.

Maternity leave is a complete waste of company money, especially if it is a white collared job. I say this as a female who, personally, would love maternity leave. But rationally as a human, I think that it's a waste and shouldn't be mandatory.

BlancheNeigefan this fantasy, that you can just take a country like Norway and over lay their policies onto the US is amazing. The US is wholly unlike Western Europe. you want to see a more accurate reflection of why that doesn't work? wait 30 years and continue the massive flood of unchecked immigration with families that will take generations to assimilate and integrate. Germany, the UK, sweeden, they can all afford these generous programs because they have a more wealthy and better educated populace to tax.

Who is the they?

Why not? If you are a statistician or someone in a relevant field I would love to hear your take on the subject.

Ryan Bananahands because it's an assumption that implies automatic guilt of sexism.

It is the outlier. Logically concludes when every study comes back with a pay gap within that range that it somehow doesn't exist please 😂

SJkid39 Why is it the pay gap side has studies and all the other side thinks they have to do is debunk those studies. That's not how logic works. No that's not what they are doing either.

@@elevate7985 How tolerant of you.

+Adam Baker that is something that's never really addressed in these studies, and i can imagine it would definitely make a difference, but that's why he brought in studies that focused on workers in specific fields 'n whatnot.

+DaedricSheep true that. seems like the most pertinent point is that income disparity derives primarily from total hours worked, in which females lose out on due to child care. I'm not sure if that's necessarily bad though. A big topic for a different kind of conversation I suppose

+Adam Baker Happens for the same reason why there are more Male Doctors(Which Doctors are also part of the 1%.). More Men apply themselves to being more successful, and unlike employees working for companies, these CEOs are handed money by people like you. So essentially, your comrades are the reason why most of the richest people in America are the richest people in America.

+Kyle Dean i dont have any money and if i did i wouldnt hand it to anyone. oh and none of my comrades are rich either. you should write fiction. youre good at completely making stuff up. ill even crowd source you!

+Adam Baker There are more very intelligent men than very intelligent women(women have a narrower/taller bell curve of intelligence) and income has a .9 correlation to general intelligence so yes men are overly represented at the highest levels on income, but they are also more competent than women on the right side of the bell curve. OF course it should balance out with the larger number of very low intelligence men at the other end of the bell curve, but because of minimum wage, unemployment benefits, etc... the curve is normalized at the low end.

How competitive is the engineer job market(This affects the VERY general advice I am giving)? How are you aware of the difference? Are they working in different aspects? Are they more productive or not? When you get into more complex jobs, "Working more hours" becomes less good a measure of how much you are actually doing. And if there truly is a difference and you are truly as productive, start looking for other employers, then simply go on and negotiate for a higher pay or threaten to leave- the solution is as always, be someone looking around for higher pay.

@@Cecilia-ky3uwAbsolutely, if she really is doing more then her male co workers then she should ask for more. But she could just be less productive, the initial comment is unclear on that

@@unnamedaccount4586 Certainly one thing, working more=/= being more productive, this is an important distinction to make.

funny how mad all the people responding to you are. like this whole video literally says "yes there is a pay gap due to sexist discrimination" but if you share an experience that says the same, suddenly they want to debunk you so bad. well i'm a woman engineer (of color) and i believe you, because i live it too and it's appalling.

Never realized there were replies until now, but just for clarification, I am indeed more productive, if you look at our burn down chart (if you're familiar with scrum) you'll see I burn twice as much as my co-workers every sprint. We're working in the same team, same product, even same repositories in most cases, I know exactly what their work entails as we are part of the same team. I've asked for more, still, I didn't get a raise because "times are tough" even though they did receive one (they told me themselves). The director in my country (former CEO until he sold his company to a bigger one) has analized different cases with a professional company that analyzes gender pay gap using many different factors and the outcome was that yes, there is a gender pay gap and the director admitted it's an unresolved issue (why it's not being addressed is way beyond me, but I need to work nevertheless). Also, thank you for reaffirming my beliefs that many people are not empathetic with these issues and most are the first to judge instead of really analyzing the issue, helps me realize there's a lot that still needs to be done and that my silence is never the answer. Edit: some corrections, English is not my first language

Greg Wiens Haha. Canada is great. I wonder why there aren't more Canadians ridiculing the US. Maybe you're too nice.

Paul, there are tons of canadians who ridicule the US. At least that's the impression I get from the canadians I've met and get exposed to online lol. But honestly I think they're the same as everyone else and the "nice canadian" thing is just a vastly exaggerated stereotype.

I'm a Yank in Canada. Interestingly the Left in Canada ridicule the US, and my friends on the right admire the US. I'm somewhere between the two.

Standard of living in higher for the average Canadian though. You pay more taxes but you don't pay for private insurance. I've lived in both countries and I have a little more disposable income at the end of the day in Canada. The only advantage that the US has is travel is much cheaper - airport fees and charges in Canada are terrible. Often drive across the boarder if I want to travel. Both are good places to live, for me Canada has been a bit better.

Interestingly I am right wing in Canada, but left wing in the US. Go figure. I live in the Prairies of Canada, Central SK. The average salary here is $70 k and I find at the end of the day I have more money to spend on extras than in the US if I buy health insurance.

Yes and no. Women get paid the same for the work provided, sure, but if a woman leaves earlier than her male counterpart or has other priorities than your company, would you still want only females in your company? Would you still give those same women a promotion over the males who show such loyalty to your company, just for the fact you save money over a year? Especially since those same women will not be there as much as the men would. Hyperbolic argument, misogynist, sexist, anti-feminist, neck beard, can't find a woman, whatever else. Anyone have an actual argument, rather than an insult? I've been doing this a while.

Winters Flames I said for same work.,

Jay Tee That is what you were saying, I was simply pointing out that you have a good chance of NOT getting the same amount of work from a woman as you would a man. A man's priorities, as he ages, is to make money. That's good for the company. A woman's priorities become things outside the company as she ages. That is BAD for the company. If you can get the same work from women as men, then they will get the same pay, yes. Good luck with that, unless the man is married and the woman is not.

Winters Flames Yes dude I am sure we are on the same page. Girls wont work doing what I do anyway..

Jay Tee Would you want them doing the work you do? I'm not talking about the minority of women that actually get stuff done to the level of a man and sometimes better, I'm talking about the vast majority.

+Dominic LaSalle from the employer's point of view how is that different than paid vacation? In both cases a person is being paid for not being at work. Whether is is to give birth, go to Hawaii or have some none pregnancy related procedure done it is all time off.

+Brian Rainey Does the maternity leave take from the paid vacation time?

Paid Maternity leave is not a law in my state, in fact getting it and taking it without getting spontaneously fired for "other reasons" is very rare... there is still a pay gap.

Maternity leave doesn't account for the whole 4%. But it does factor in. Taking maternity leave does negatively affect pay. The funny part is a woman will recover from this deficit faster than a man will if he takes the same amount of time off. However many more women will take extended leaves due to children than men will. So this situation affects them more. Having children is difficult on the body. If you're planning on having children soon it may discourage you from seeking a promotion to a more demanding job. This usually isn't the case for men who will become more aggressive when the added expenses of children are looming. Employers are also skeptical of women having children. Training someone to do a job then having to have another person cover for them is can put a lot of stress on employees. Many women will choose not to return to the workforce once they realize child rearing IS A FULLTIME JOB. So the company will have a high likelihood of turnover if they have an expecting mother to a position.

I want to mention, my country (Bangladesh) is more feminist than the most ranking make it to be. A big reason we got independence from Pakistan because Pakistan is too Islamic and since independence country heads were mostly women. Women participate more in the workforce than India and most women don't wear hijab or pray 5 times a day.