My former church is a part of this movement. It is a church very much connected with Bethel Church. My husband and I were a part of the ministry team in that church so we were around the atmosphere of this movement all the time. I recently started reading Reckless Christianity and it is amazing the similar situations and sayings that I witnessed in my church. It's a good thing that this is being brought to light.
This was so insightful. I've been aware of churches like Bethel for a long time, and naturally I've had my concerns about their influence, but it was so helpful to be given such academic and thoughtful categories and history to apply to conversation about them. I want to be able to engage with these ideas beyond surface-level criticism, and you guys nailed that part. Thank you!
(Paraphrasing) “and then after leaving a NAR church…or organization, these people are not even sure they knew/know..the real Jesus.” I’ve personally experienced serious questions regarding my faith after exiting NAR influenced groups. I’ve spoken to those who, now, seriously doubt their salvation and faith in the scripture in which they once believed. TY for interviews such as this that presents the truth.
33:15 This is, when questioned, they may avoid an honest conversation because they won't acknowledge that adding to Scripture is actually happening. Instead they will say things like "eat the fish and spit out the bones", or: hold on to what is good and throw away the rest. The latter really being a twisting of Scripture that makes my toes curl whenever I hear it.
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth. Truth exposes error. Thank you for exposing darkness with light, Perhaps PRIDE is at the center of NAR, And PRIDE was the sin of lucifer in heaven who became our enemy; satan. Blessings in Christ Jesus,
Doug and Holly have interacted with Michael Brown. They had a debate with him on "The American Gospel" documentary. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-XnG9qe1HeR8.html
I was there prior to this movement.......saved in the John Wimber Vineyard Movement. He broke with NAR after they formed. I never got involved in this movement. I believe that many are saved in this movement. It's a mix of wheat and tares.
@@El.savedbyJesusThere is definitely both. Vineyard is a very loose organization. As a result, there are pro-NAR and anti-NAR pastors within it. As a whole, it is mostly anti-NAR at the highest level from what I understand.
I think this is a question that people should raise in their churches, if Bethel music is being used. We can do it with gentleness and respect to those leaders in charge of worship, but I think churches probably should rethink their use of Bethel songs.
I kind of doubt angels have bird feathers on their wings. I have a friend that claimed they kept an angel feather from a service she attended. I am sure that it was a real bird feather from looking at it.
Where does Andy Stanley, Steven Furtrick, Brian Houston, Craig Croeschel, Chris Hodges etc. fit in? The Global Leadership grouping? They reek of pragmatism. They don't support the apostles, just the 'profits'.
I would call them either seeker sensitive or somewhat Word of Faith. They teach a lot of “speak into existence” and l”little gods” theology that gives way to prosperity gospel teachings.
Hodges does support apostles, but he and I think several others do so way more subtly because they are seeker friendly they try to avoid the NAR label and wont say apostle if they can help it
@@energizer7354Hodges loves story telling and validating his camp by promoting each other's books and platforms. Some of his practices hinge on fire tunnels and illustrations that we won't find in Scripture.
Well then, read the page-turner novel "Where Do We Go Now, LORD? - Burke." Explains much. Very much. A fun read, yet quite ameliorating. Is there a higher game afoot? (Of course, there always is.) Elevated the conversation, enjoy the Problem-Solving book!
I won't be able to answer for Doug or Holly, but given what I know, I think that if they (NAR leaders) stopped claiming that they possess special revelation or anointing from God that puts them in unique positions of authority over the church, and also stop prophesying falsely that would be a good start.
Can you guts tell. Me why do both woman and men in the ministry support these people in the USA and in Scotland England and Ireland it amazes me is their decernment off the radar in other words none
Pride is a problem but the personal damage of sexual sin is far greater, even if it’s just “a few women” (an inflammatory statement indeed) and the damage of the sexual abuse cannot be undone compared to damage inflicted by pride. I think yes address pride, but your other comment is concerning.
agree with you completely. pride is in ALL of us, but not all of us are abusers. you can't regulate or litigate pride, so his point I feel is unactionable.
@23:00 The Kirkwood Center, I have some questions for you about the Catholic Church and about how you said that they don't fit the definition of a cult, but all of the things that you named like a separate teaching, such as the CCC claiming that Muslims can enter heaven because they believe in Allah and Allah is the "creator" and that it doesn't matter that they don't believe in Jesus, but they can still get into heaven based on "good intentions" etc. isn't that a separate teaching just like the NAR cult and their self-help manuals of demon warfare, etc.? Is it the Catholic Church having a charismatic figure that people are unquestioning of who is preaching against the Bible being the pope? It seems like the exact things that you mentioned that you claim were n making the Catholic Church a cult actually are... Now I understand that these other groups like the Catholic Church who also do things like the NAR Cult, they have invaded our church, claiming they are communicating with demons and ghosts are a big group of people and you can make more money if you change the message to claim that a huge organization is not a cult, but is that really what the Bible tells us to do? Every single point he mentioned is done by the Catholic Church, so why is he saying that the Catholic Church is not a cult? Arguably the Catholic Church that has completely departed from Christianity is a huge inspiration for these other cults and if you notice these other cults, they tend to be bringing people to an understanding that the Catholics are "Christians" Rick Warren does this David Eubank does this Francis Chan does this all of them are connected to these radical teachings and teachers, which brings me to another point holly is somebody that I have respect it but I wonder if she is in the role of a pastor, and this has had a huge detrimental effect with somebody else that I have dealt with named Marshall West who initially I thought was good she was condemning Rick Warren, which is great, but then she started worshiping Trump and even unfriended Me chiming in with people against me for opposing Trump. If any of you are really paying attention to what's going on with Trump he has been part of the new apostolic reformation, putting a female pastor over our nation, who is a lunatic, completely greedy, faking visions from heaven and dispatching angels from Africa, etc.… this falls in with the territorial spirits type of Fuller seminary garbage teachers that have split from Christianity and have no basis in the Bible, but they will try to twist scriptures, such as the one about the demons going into the pigs to say that that supports their territorial spirits idea of Peter, Wagner and Fuller. Seminary itself has a history being built with the heretic William Branham, who also has major similarities with the Mormon church and was a complete man, charlatan and crook like Joseph Smith. In any event, if Marshall West really has all of this "discernment" why did she unfriend me for exposing Trump and why did she not notice the heresy of people like Charles Spurgeon? It's sad when you think that somebody knows what they're talking about and then they end up supporting someone from the exact same Cult they claim they are exposing! Do you know what I mean at all? A lot of this was informative, but you can't focus on the truth. In these lectures, you have to focus on the deception that is snuck in if this man is unwilling to say that the Catholic Church is a cult that has the same features of a celebrity pastor being the pope that has their own fake doctrines in their own manuals, which they claim supersede the authority of the Bible, or as the Catholic Church says "ecclesiastical authority" and they literally are doing the same kind of supernatural hocus-pocus as the NAR cult. Why would you then say that the Catholic Church is not a cult? This kind of cowardice is really hurting what people are considering "Christianity" either you stand up for Christ, the Christ of the Bible or you don't and when you stand with these false churches and their false Christ like the Catholic church that says that mary is an alternate way to heaven or even that Muslims can enter heaven then you are standing apart from the true Christ, and with the false Christ of another cult, all-be-it a huge cult, which makes it more dangerous! We know a NAR Cult teacher that is supporting terrorists, but I'm afraid that you won't want to take him on because of this same kind of coward of saying that the Catholic Church is not a cult, even though it has the same features as the new apostolic reformation even claiming to have new revelations from a fake "mary" so in all of the good stuff that you are doing, you are still leading people astray, and I find that disappointed and I wanted to know if you wanted to correct that and to help us. People are dying because of these cults not just spiritually, but in this world terrorist groups support and we need help but I don't think we're going to get it -at least not from you- if you're not willing to face the truth. it bothers me that one person was willing to say that this man was wrong that the Catholic religion does have these features EXACTLY would you like to"re- do" your stance on that? ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-0M3P2qCERtg.html
Yes, I said the Catholic Church doesn't fit the definition of a cult. But I didn't say that the Catholic Church doesn't run afoul of the same problem that NAR does, that of locating formal authority in a person, instead of in the Word of God. So yes, there is a similar issue with the RCC as with any NAR church, since God does not speak "specially" through any "Spirit-filled" charismatic individual, nor any teaching office of the church. The locus of authority is in God's Word itself, the text of Scripture illuminated by the Holy Spirit.
@@thekirkwoodcenter so explain how the Catholic Church who have a demonic, charismatic leader, praying to dead people somehow doesn't fit the definition of a cult. I don't think that you can support your own statement. I think you made the statement because you aren't interested in the truth and you're interested in having a wider audience, and you don't care if you're leading people astray at all. All churches, even a legitimate church is going to as you said "run a foul" at times, the demonic Catholic Church does say that God is speaking specifically through these supposedly spirit filled Vatican people, and that they have "ecclesiastical authority" the Catholic Church could care less about the authority of sound scripture. You are completely false here.
I haven't heard of him. He's not someone whose name has come up in my conversations with Doug and Holly, although, as you can see from the interview, the movement is pretty extensive and many churches are associated with NAR leaders. At the same time, Doug and Holly are very, very careful about labelling people NAR who are not clear representatives of it.
@@thekirkwoodcenter Thank you! I pastor in Eastern North Carolina. I have had occasion to hear a few ministers in our area speak doctrines which are like those you describe. I felt something was off and I began to look for answers. I believe the Lord lead me to your video and I have ordered one of your books. Again, thank you.
