The Dangers of the New Apostolic Reformation with Holly Pivec & R. Douglas Geivett

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Is the New Apostolic Reformation a reckless movement? Modern Reformation Executive Editor Brannon Ellis sits down with experts Holly Pivec & R. Douglas Geivett to talk about the dangers of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), which is one of the fastest growing movements in American Christianity.
LEARN MORE:
You can read more about the NAR in the latest edition of Modern Reformation "This Isn't The Reformation You're Looking For" - www.modernreformation.org/res...
Over on our sister podcast White Horse Inn, the hosts covered this topic as part of their new series "Shamans in the Church" - whitehorseinn.org/resource-li...
0:00-2:11 This Isn't the Reformation You're Looking For
2:12-14:30 Why We Need to Take NAR Seriously
14:31-16:05 The Influence of Bill Johnson and Bethel
16:06-22:32 The Origins of NAR
22:33-28:27 Sola Scriptura v. New Revelations
28:28-32:56 C. Peter Wagner's Prophecies
32:57-34:59 "Music is the catechism of today's church" - Elevation, Hillsong, Bethel, and Gateway
35:00-43:10 People Are Hungry for Assurance
GUESTS:
Holly Pivec is a blogger, author, and speaker: She has a master's degree in Christian apologetics from Biola University, where she also served as university editor for nearly a decade. Follow her work at www.hollypivec.com/
R. Douglas Geivett is a professor, an author, and a speaker. He has a PhD in philosophy from USC and is professor emeritus at Biola University and Talbot School of Theology. He has written or edited several books in addition to the four he has coauthored with Holly.

Опубликовано:

4 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 24

@FreedomBeaconMinistries 22 дня назад

I've been studying NAR for a number of months, even participating in a 6-week conference with Holly and Doug online this past spring. I wanted to settle the question in my mind as to whether NAR could be considered a cult. I have concluded, based upon the criteria that I use from both a theological (different gospel) and a sociological perspective (i.e., shunning, ad hominem attacks directed at defectors and detractors, fear mongering regarding demonic attacks when you remove yourself from their "covering", etc.) that it is a cult. Hearing Doug and Holly speaking about “prophetic illumination” on this video, put me immediately in mind of how the Watchtower Society (Jehovah's Witnesses) cult that I grew up in loved to talk about “new light” every time they wanted to introduce a new teaching or a new rule that they didn't want members to push back against. This is a power and control tactic, plain and simple and it is endemic to the cults.

@michaeldunigan1067 18 дней назад

The cure for NAR is the everlasting gospel. That we are saved by grace through faith trusting in the cross and the shed blood of Yeshua for our justification and for our redemption. Nothing added. Nothing taken away.

@Revolver1701 Месяц назад

Almost always in theology, things that are “new” are not good.

@HearGodsWord Месяц назад

As I've heard many people say "if it's new, it's not true."

@michaeldunigan1067 18 дней назад

NAR is not in it's essence a problem of doctrine. It is a misapplication of Apostolic honor. Perpetrated by false Apostles. They must be shown up as false Apostles.

@lmorter7867 14 дней назад

I've seen a lot in this movement. Personally I think some people want a supernatural experience so badly that they can be manipulated by the power of suggestion. Kind of like hypnosis or witchcraft.

@WilliamWatsonBirch Месяц назад

"... (as it is written, 'A father of many nations have I made you') in the presence of Him whom he [Abraham] believed, even God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist" (Rom. 4:17). I was taught, in the Pentecostal church to which I once belonged, that this verse means that we can also "call into being that which does not exist" through faith. But that is *not* what the text actually says. I left that false movement back in 2003.

@ivanasimic2072 2 дня назад

Yes, music is the hook, I was only 19, 30 years ago, music hooked me , but also the Bible... Emotions, yes - they hook your emotions and later abuse these emotions against you, this is like autoimmnune disase , so help me God.

@robertburke9920 Месяц назад

So then, read the masterpiece novel “Where Do We Go Now, LORD? - Burke.” Explains much. Very much!

@davidfox683 9 дней назад

I watched part of this video and the entirety of another. I define myself as charismatic and filled with the holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues. I believe that God desires to see the five-fold ministry active in the church. I never saw a scripture in context that suggested that the five-fold ministry had been removed from the church. Now, I don't think it's a requirement, but it can bring health to a church community. Healing is for today. I have seen legs grow out, tumors leave someone's body, and know a number of people who have raised the dead. Didn't Jesus say, these things that I did you will do also and greater. God gave us dominion over the earth, right? I'm not saying this movement is all sunshine and rainbows and is in need alignment, but you certainly don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

@wejpasadena1 Месяц назад

One of these churches that believes in this New Apostolic Reformation has someone on staff whose formal title is Senior Prophet. I wanted to ask this guy if a Senior Prophet starts out as a Junior Prophet, and if so how do you go from Junior Prophet to Senior Prophet? Is there a certain number of confirmed miracles that it takes, or a certain number of fulfilled prophecies? Also I wonder if a Senior Prophet would outrank the regular prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel?

@BeiNacht 2 дня назад

senior false prophet

@michaeldunigan1067 18 дней назад

I think that the teaching that distinguishes NAR from classical Pentecostalism is dominionism. I am a classical Pentecostal. An Ordained Elder in the COGIC.

@deborahthorp758 7 дней назад

The Bible was inspired by God ,God breathed, and the Bible also says the natural man cannot rightly understand or discern the word of God,apart from the Holy Spirit ,as God is Spirit, and when your born again and given God's Holy Spirit to live and dwell in you ,as we have recieved the anointing from God ,comparing Spiritual things with Spiritual things , so it takes the Holy Spirit of God bearing witness to His Holy Spirit to understand correctly what God is speaking through His Holy word, I didn't understand, or no matter how hard I tried to read the Bible and when I really got saved ,the Bible became alive ,I understood it , I read it every day , it literally fed me everyday ,never have I loved a book more it us the living word of God ,completely changed my life , ONE God,one Jesus Christ who saved me conducted me of my sin, forgave me washed me in His Blood ,and it never grows old ,I don't need new Revelation, the Holy Spirit leads and guides me into all truth, and confirms His word through Bible teaching in context men of God, ONE Holy Spirit ,bears witness to His Spirit and His word, never contradicts Him self, Thank you Father, Son,Holy Spirit of truth.been to many Nar churches and my Spirit don't bear witness unless the word of God is being preached, in context, God protects me ,for 48 yrs. If it were possible even the elect would be decieved ,yes I test all things I hear and God us so faithful, red flags go up ,and I don't bear witness .Preach the word.Amen Bless you men and woman of God

@JoshuaBSunderland Месяц назад

This is more of a deformation than a reformation

@glynnetolar4423 Месяц назад

I thought it would be a neat idea to walk into one of those prophet's offices and start asking about their prophices. While setting a large rock on their desk. When they ask me about it start bringing up the old treatment about what happens to a false prophet. Be an interesting conversation. But I'm sure their self delusion will get in the way.

@niemand262 16 дней назад

You fantasize about threatening people with stoning?

@user-ms5yl2gb5o Месяц назад

Money money money.... that's what the NAR is about as far as I am concerned. A church I used to go to hosted a NAR conference. I was sooo excited to experience the presence of the Lord and learn something new and get all those "impartations" they kept talking about. When the meetings began, I was a bit surprised to discover that there was no "presence" to be found at all. It all seemed very dry. Worship was very passionate but really not that good, a whole bunch of loud singing and shouting and kept going on and on and on. Then the teaching was supposed to be oh so revelatory. The phrase I heard the most was "this is really a big topic and we don't have enough time to go in depth, so we will do an overview". Well, I already had an overview, but ok, maybe others needed it and I am always eager to learn something new. That overview really never materialized as the speakers (Peter Wagner and his wife both spoke) kept talking about the overview but never really said anything of substance. I think they seemed to be just beating around the bush and trying to convince us that in order to get all the nuggets of what they have to offer, we needed to come back to them and follow them. Of course, the offering was promptly taken, to be sure. I should have given half a dollar with a note that they will get the other half when they actually say something of any worth that glorifies Christ.