Isiah Thomas makes the case for LeBron James being the greatest all-around player ever | First Take 

The pistons did if i'm not mistaking

I love how Isiah says MJ beat the Pistons when they were old, yet Bird was *older* than Isiah was when the Pistons finally beat the Celtics in 1988. Make it make sense.

Wasn’t MJ in like his third season?

@@kenfils7241 So dont say MJ beat utah

Yes but Magic and Bird beat him and his Pistons too.. Magic won the most in the 80s...

😂😂

😅😅

But he's telling the truth

Sure. You want a guy who gives you the finger every time? That's you, bro.

Well then you’re a fool because ESPN has been lying to you about MJ. Never beat Bird or Magic/Kareem. The NBA had to add flagrant fouls just so the Bulls could beat the old/injured bad boy Pistons. The NBA added expansion teams that watered down the talent of each team, pretty much allowing the Bulls to easily destroy all their competition. MJ was 1-9 in the playoffs without Pippen. The Bulls won lots of games when MJ went to play baseball. The NBA added zone defense after MJ’s Bulls were no longer a thing (if they had added it earlier there’s no way MJ would have averaged 30 for his career).

Well in his defense he did lose to him multiple times🤣

But the argument is he is black jesus, so black jesus should have been able to beat the pistons, Lakers, Celtics in their prime. Even if his teammates were crackheads. The point is MJ was a great player who got the necessary help needed to win like other greats. So if he only started winning after he got a Great GM, Coach and teammates, then we have to use other statistical categories when comparing great players. Either that, or we stop the b.s. and crown Bill Russell the goat.

Yall I don't make that same argument for Lebron when he went against the Spurs with that Cleveland team in 2007.

@@Icetillidie I know what you mean, but I'm not saying that you can't make the case for other players. Bill Russel's 11 championships are amazing. I'm saying you can't take away from Jordan's greatness because he didn't win championships in the 80s, which is what Isiah is trying to put across.

@@Icetillidie you can't crown Russell the goat because he was 20x better and taller than all of his opponents. And no great player has won without a counterpart. And let's be honest MJ made Scottie Pippen who he is

Not really accurate. Being the better all around players means you need to play on both sides of the ball. Jordan was a 3 time steals leader and also won defensive player of the year. Lebron hasn't led the league in a defensive stat his entire career, so that right there proves that comment false.

Facts 💯

Your right but this is they come back is to hate LBJ

Facts!!!!

Yeah the truth, with a lot of clever spin to fit his agenda

@Aaron9 when Dennis Rodman played for the Pistons earlier in his career they were shutting Jordan down

@@higherheights3105 alot hard fouls were part of the game. Nobody flopped like they did in the early 2010’s-2015’s

They were called they Bad boys but later turnes into the cry babies for getting swept and tossed out like trash. Bulls fan for life. Isiah thomas can cry till he die.

.. until he killed THEM

Those facts would've been hidden if he liked Jordan. Kinda a good thing he hates him cause we can get the unbias truth.

@@neutralgenius25 i agree

@Aaron9 MJ played for 15 seasons. What say you about the 9 seasons he sat out? LOL!

wet dreams fool lol

😭😭

Hahaha thomas beats jordan when jordan in his prime, he alost beats larry bird and etc. Mj never did that. Haters gonna hate. 😂😂😂 Mj is not the goat. Emotions and popularities yes, but not facts.

@@arjunabeta3125 GETTEM

@@arjunabeta3125 facts

how old are you???

Of course Zeke wont take MJ..

He may not be lying but he is spinning things to fit his hatred of MJ

lol stupid

Facts.

He doesn't need to

Jordan was considered the GOAT in college and Isiah knows this

Isiah always trying HARDER to defend Lebum

Isiiah is a big reason Jordan always was called GOAT caused he whipped that A hole from day 1

He letting the truth be told

This man saying MJ was the mvp and dpoy and still got beat 4-1, is exactly like KG saying “He couldn’t beat all 5 of us 🤡”🤣

To be fair. MJ still holding a grudge on Barkley and many others. All these guys need to just let things go

@@matthoffman6962 True

He’s just telling the truth. Jordansexuals are beyond delusional

This is Isiah Thomas talking LOL cmon now man. Find somebody else to make Lebron GOAT case.

@@MrGenexxx u JORDAN SEXUAL

ON GOD HIMSELF

In this case that assumption is more than warranted

@@MrGenexxx were did Isaiah lie? He spit facts

Why should everything be "if" for Jordan and others one way?

Willie riding Jordan meat hard in these comments.

@@thetruth6396Bruh. They livee using ifs and hypotheticals with MJ to give him hypothetical praise. Then they use ifs and hypotheticals to tear down other players. Lol

By saying they was old when they lost. Made every excuse why they lost instead of just saying they lost

@Aaron9 I may not agree but at the same time there aren't huge flaws in his game except he isn't a phenomenal shooter

@Aaron9 so who is it then

He didn't lie bro

Also the fact lebron is GOAT is evident

@@ingislakur no

He never lied .. wat he said was facts how is that hate tho i dont understand?

No hate he beat jordan in the playoffs 3yrs straight

When someone calls anyone else other than jordan its labeled as "hate" but yall won't hesitate to trash lebron and any other legend legacy when comparing them to jordan foh

He dont wanna talk about that

Yes he was, bird was also out due to back injuries, hence why they finally broke through. Zeke likes to think he won straight away and was FMVP at every finals win, with multiple MVPs, DPOY - he would also tell you that he was ‘robbed’ in 88 and should’ve 3peated 🙄 the guy is full of excuses, probably why he likes LBJ so much - full of excuses.

Isiah conveniently leaves out that Bird was 31 when the Pistons beat the Celtics in 1988 and didn't even play the next year in 1989 when the Pistons beat the Celtics again. He'll criticize Jordan for something yet completely leave it out when he benefits from the same thing.

Jordan is 0-3 vs bird

Lebron lost to an old broken down Spurs team

And just about all the Mavs were old and broken down (Caron Butler didn't even play) except for Dirk

Magic was in the finals tho so how was he broken down lol

Not weak, Jordan was that great where he didnt allow anyone else to win. He didnt go join another team to win but still lose.

@@AB1B1 that's because he had all-stars already around him

@@AssWhooperP LeBron went to Miami and still loss

@@AB1B1 and won 2x if cleveland had a Jerry Krause in office Lebron doesn't leave cleveland but that didn't happen for him cuz best believe if jordan went through the same thing he would've definitely left chicago and start a potential dynasty with other stars

facts. evrybody wana d ride now

LMAO this half trolling from Thomas is always funny af. The reaction on everyone's face bracing for his "great players" hot takes 😆

One day we will realize Isiah isn't hating. Everything he said is genuinely true.

Hopefully another player from their era will speak up so people can't assume it's personal against Jordan. I feel sorry for Isiah

@@billycarter1798 Bill laimbeer

That’s because isiah and Jordan have beef that go back decades

@@chocolatechipslime same with pierce & lebron

@@denimjeg yeah but it’s not just pierce saying it, it’s most players. How often does someone say Jordan ain’t the goat?

@@chocolatechipslime most ppl say mj but there’s been a lot of players/coaches that said lebron is the goat too

He is lying lol He never actually beat magic And when he beat bird bird was older than ISIAH was when Jordan beat ISIAH. ISIAH was TWENTY NINE YEARS OLD WHEN JORDAN BEAT HIM LMFAOO. THE PISTONS DYNASTY ENDED BECAUSE JORDAN ENDED IT

@The unofficial FPS balance team - No, he’s low key hating. Bird and magic were old when zeke started winning chips (going by zeke’s idiotic definition on old) and his pistons team were in the ECF going for their 3peat. MJ and the bulls destroyed them which in turned made pistons execs retire the team and bench zeke for the remainder of his career. As for him stating LBJ is ‘all round’ this is one of those fallacies that his fan base claim with no evidence - just like the ‘LBJ makes his teammates better’. LBJ has been named defensive 1st x5 in 20yrs has lead the league once in scoring and x1 assist (poor man’s scoring title)….that’s not ‘all round’ - MJ x9 defensive 1st, x3 steals, DPOY and x10 scoring champ in 15yrs…that’s pretty well rounded… MJ also has the HIGHEST CAREER PER in history - so not only is the guy efficient, but he plays both ends of the floor…zeke is Waaaaaay off and clearly trippin.

He gave facts

@@joshuadavis6442 miss what facts?

“Angry little man”😂😂😂 the bitterness and hate is unbelievable

jordan was hatin on em first not lettin him be on the dream team. so i think he has a valid point to hate. but its been over 20 years hes gotta get over it.

Isaiah beat Jordan more than Jordan beat Isaiah. He was telling the truth here. Regardless of how you all feel

is he Lying tho not one thing he said about Jordan and the 80s was lying he spoke the truth he maybe does hate Jordan still doesn’t change the facts about the situation 🤷🏽‍♂️

How can the truth be hate? Ask your self right quick did he lie?..

@@NBAKING149 we don’t know that tho he was there we wasn’t we going off of what people was saying he literally played him he would know better than most 🤷🏽‍♂️

@@tylerbernard4368 wait everything he said was seen it’s documented.. even if we didnt watch or even if we wasnt there we can look it up Isaiah thomas didnt lie at all

Just asking out of curiosity. Who's your top 5

@@nunyabusiness8498 Really got more than 5 but if I had to put something these are best individual players to me its Jordan - wilt - Gervin - Iverson- Durant

@@antt4998 I like that 5 since it covers multiple eras. I'd probably put Kobe in there over AI but AI for sure deserves to be known as one of the best players ever.

@@nunyabusiness8498 There are more players I want to add but that was just 5

30 aint prime of career especially in the 80s. Hop off the Jordan brand stick

The pistons team was old & they top scorer got hurt sorry Jordan was not that guy

Zeke was hurt in 1990 😎✌

But did he win ?

@bLIZKA It wasn't the Leastern Conference in the 80's! The Sixers, Celtics, and Pistons all won from the East in the 80's. The West was FAR WORST in the 80's, as there were years that the Lakers were the only 50 win team in the conference. Both the East and the West were weaker than the 80's East because of Expansion.

@Ancestral Rage - dragged?? Pretty sure LBJ didn’t even MAKE the playoffs his first 3yrs, then it was Mike Brown who instilled defense to their squad (cavs had the best defensive rating during those playoff years), even then they fluked it to the finals ONCE and NEVER went back MJ as a rookie never ONCE missed the playoffs and literally dragged a bunch of drug addicts/has beens to the playoffs, making it to the second round, until Pip/Horace finally developed into integral parts of the team in 88. Thats called DEVELOPING your rookies and making them better, not BUYING your team. Give MJ that Heats team and they’re 3peating or 4peat, give MJ the cavs team in 2015 and again he’s winning that chip with back to back in 2016 - so that’s pretty much 6 straight titles until GSW called KD for help.

@@bGzzzzz exactly mfs be somehow underestimating the REAL mf GOAT Mj🐐

@@juliothom2408 he was talking bout brons comp

Here’s facts about MJ bulls team in 80s - ZERO ALL STARS and bunch of Coke heads

Only when LeBron was in Miami did he have the best team and even that is a stretch. Bosh was never that good. D Wade was never an MVP and their last year together D Wade wasn’t the same player. OKC had 3 future MVPs. Spurs have the winningest coach in NBA history. LeBron had some good coaches but none were even close to GOAT-tier. Now with MJ… Never beat Bird or Magic/Kareem. The NBA had to add flagrant fouls just so the Bulls could beat the old/injured bad boy Pistons. The NBA added expansion teams that watered down the talent of each team, pretty much allowing the Bulls to easily destroy all their competition. MJ was 1-9 in the playoffs without Pippen. The Bulls won lots of games when MJ went to play baseball. The NBA added zone defense after MJ’s Bulls were no longer a thing (if they had added it earlier there’s no way MJ would have averaged 30 for his career). The cards were pretty much stacked in MJ’s favor. The cards were always stacked against LeBron so he had to create his own opportunities.

@@TheRealAbraxas So I see you are just talking nonsense. Well first of all when they got their Dwyane Wade was definitely a top 5-7 player in the league and Chris Bosh was a perfect 3rd option. And that Thunder did not have a mature Russell Westbrook and James Harden was a 6th man. And let the record say that Erik Spolestra was a top 15 NBA coach of all time as they named him during the 75h anniversary of the NBA. Not to mention one of the best executives in Pat Riley. And all the media said that the Cleveland Cavaliers had the most talent and projected them to win both the 2014-15 and 2015-16 NBA titles. So please change history to benefit your argument. With Michael Jordan, so you will blame him for losing to the 86 and 87 Celtics in his sophomore and third year but you want to exonerate LeBron from any blame for facing superteams? And Michael never faced the Celtics when the Bulls got better and they pretty handily beat the Lakers in the 91 finals. And since you bring up expansion, the expansion happened in 1988. As far as I know the Pistons won the title in 1988-89 and 1989-90, so why are the Bulls getting all the blame for that? So you are telling me that Pippen averaging 7.9 PPG and 10.1 PPG in the 1988 playoffs was the reason that the Bulls made it out of the first round? Or was it instead of facing a stacked Celtics roster, they had a higher seed and faced the Cavs? And as for the zone, I am so tired of hearing this. There were zones in the 90s. There was help defence in the 90s. Go look at those Pistons and Knicks series and they would deploy zones where the weakside defender would stay off his man to keep an eye on Jordan. And the likes of Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson and Tracy McGrady during those early 2000s era but somehow a prime Michael Jordan would struggle? Alright. And the flagrant foul rule did not stop the Pistons and the Knicks, the Heat or the Pacers for hammering players from going to the basket. There was literally play in the 91 playoffs against the Pistons when Dennis Rodman pushed Scottie Pippen who was in the air and into the stanchion and the referee gave nothing but a normal foul. But yeah go ahead and talk nonsense. You LeBron fans are something else. You guys just lie out of your teeth to save your idol, its embarrassing really. But have a nice day since a guy who last played 20 years ago stays rent free in the LeBron stuperfanclub.

This is one of the worst lies I've ever seen. Lebron did not have the best team on paper any year except 2011 and 2013. That's it.

Bruh u just out here lying making stuff up. Lebron has been favored in 3 finals. 2011, 2013 and 2020. He was favored in 2013. He was not an underdog. Out here lying for no reason. And furthermore it might have something to do with losing kyrie and love in the playoffs. And 2016 might have something to do with the warriors winning 73 games and breaking the bulls record. Idk that might have something to do with it.

@@sportstalkonly1442 of course because you are a LeBron James stuperfan. Thats it.

@Aaron9 and....like I said where he at on the other top ten list besides scoring...🦗🦗

He never beat Larry bird in the playoffs bro 🤷🏿‍♂️ how is he the goat

Uh no

Not really. Just look at the stats. Zeke is speaking FACTS!!!

You’re a punk so he has to agree with MJ everything

Just speaking his truth

I like how delusional Jordan fans are. Isaiah has given Jordan his props. He just thinks Lebron is better, accept it.

@cyberbron2077 you're ASSuming I'm a Jordan fan

@@nobodyfavorite215 you don’t need to be. You’re assuming he’s hating when everything he said was factual.

Assume you were born after 2000.

👏👏👏

Not even comparable, 2000s Western Conference was the hardest conference ever and the 80s eastern conference had like 3 good teams lol

@@user-rk9br4lm9q 3 hall of fame teams. Throughout the 80s with the sixers from 80-83 and still solid in 84. The Bad Boy Pistons for the 2nd half of the Decade, the Larry Celtics for almost the entire decade, and a pretty good bucks squad. 3 out of the four teams either winning the title or going to the finals each year. Yeah that's a stacked conference. Yeah it's not the mid 2000s west but it's tougher than what LeBron had to overcome in terms of playoffs in the east no doubt. Not the finals but playoffs

THANK YOU .. someone had to state it

What's the point of asking SAS then?

You acting like he not making sum sense ya making it out like he’s just blatantly hating majority of what he said was true if we being honest

So what happened in 2010? 2014? 2018?? How about playoff mode activated year 2019?? Pretty sure he quit those years very quickly. How about 2009 when he was favored to make the finals due to the EASY path, but was then destroyed by a magics team who were a joke? But sure, it was ‘only’ 1year……

💯 thats facts i don’t understand how they try and fight FACTS

💯

No they aren’t

Thomas is right. The story is told is the Michael Jordan conquered 15 years of NBA basketball when it’s really about 10.

Magic Johnson dominated 9 of his 11 years in NBA basketball

Thomas put some facts on them in the segment. Not opinion. Facts about NBA basketball history as it occurred.

Then why did he miss the playoffs without Oscar & Magic?? He won an MVP and his team didn't even make the playoffs. Plus in 4 of his 6 championships he was 33+years old and the no.2 option. Magic was the engine of that Lakers team.

Jordan wasn’t even in his prime in the 80s. Prime Jordan beats the 80s Celtics and Lakers

Sounds like the 2007 Cavs that went to the finals... while along the way beating one of the best defensive teams ever in the Pistons

@@Spurs2k23 I'm a Pistons fan from Michigan and the 2007 Detroit team was old, in rebuilding mode and had already traded Ben Wallace

And spend how many years before winning?

@@thetruth6396 Are you asking when LBJ started winning? In his 9th season.

MJ could not beat a Magic and Kareem team........that 1991 Lakers team is not even close to the same dynasty that was in the 80s....cut it out. Magic Kareem and Worthy woulda have mopped those bulls

@@sergiodavis9772 Dynasties don't stay young forever. You cant take nothing away from a guy that got over the hump and went on to create a dynasty for himself. This is the way the game go.

💯

💯

U sound dumb

Shut up kid

Jordan is even bigger GOAT according to this logic LOL

Karl was damned good

How many rings Karl got

Why because you a Bronsexual

Bruh he put up numbers not dominated.

He's 4-6 😐 man couldn't even tie Jordan in rings with 4 extra attempts 😂...but he the goat? 😂

@@colewrld901 Jordan made everyone great look just good. But Lebron let everyone else walk all over him.

@@colewrld901 🤣🤣🤣

Goat 🐐 Jordan 6-0 and 6 finals mvps only 1 all star teammate Scottie Pippen compared to LeBron 4-6 and 6 finals losses more all star teammates Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, Anthony Davis now Russell Westbrook

One?, remember how he had a championship contending roster from 2008-2010, remember him quitting in 2010? Pretty sure I remember him quitting in 2014 when the team was getting blown out, also in 2018 after losing ONE game, he basically waved the white flag the rest of the series - it was so bad EVERY analyst said that people should now just stop comparing MJ to him, Chuck went so far as to state that if anyone did he would take his chances with the judiciary system. But sure, it was ‘ONE’ time 🙄 Can you name ONE time MJ gave up on his team in a finals series or playoff? 😂

FYI - being favorite is based on the BOOKIE believing whether the odds should be in your favour and then it gets DICTATED by the general public (ie gamblers) on if they feel the same way - so if anything it demonstrates that NO ONE believes LBJ is that great. How can you be The GOAT if people don’t have trust in you to win? If you’re The GOAT, you will have The GOAT team and you will be favorite, plain and simple. Never have I heard anything so ridiculous as ‘hes The GOAT, but has never led the league in anything more than ONCE, can’t play defense, his teams are never the fav etc etc’ - but he’s ‘The GOAT’ 🤪🤣

We have the same ideology man. If you name the top 30 no one in the 90's is top 20. Jordan had the best GM, Owner, Coach, ever.

@@jemdria Also the leagues best SF, the GOAT defender, and one of the most accurate 3pt shooters ever

Lebron's road to the finals were pretty bad teams my guy

@@wjl2068That's overstating it. But his Finals competition has been much harder.

@@wjl2068 Boston Big 3, D. Rose Bulls, The Pacers for many seasons, The Raptors for many seasons were all tough.