it begins... the DEATH of x86 

Same, I just tested it.

no way I test it too and same for me 🔥

L😂L!!!

🤣

need ups🤣🤣

never gonna happen but we can hope

the steam deck is doing more work in that department than arm ever could

Or people will still use Windows because all of these devices will come with Windows pre-installed What we need is more devices like the Steam Deck, specialized and polished enough to appeal to normies, but prove that Linux is easy to use

when will we have the death of ipv4 because i only have ipv6 with cgnat

raspberry pi arm also is annoying cause if i try stuff with docker on my pc that doesn't mean it will run on my pi so i use my old laptop as a server instead of a pi

Every single Android phone is stuck on a certain android build. That's exactly 💯 what it means. What you get is what apple offers, but without apple. There is a reason they don't brag about PCIE lanes or memory support, so basically its all soldered. To make things worse the UEFI and Qualcomm means you won't get an unlocked bootloader any binary drivers outside of a 3 year cycle.

Well if the future all single board computers with zero expandability, which pretty much most ARM machines are, then it's bleak.

We're already very close to that point, my ideapad has non upgradeable CPU and memory, only the SSD is not soldered to the motherboard. I bought it knowing that it would be disposable, because going with a thinkpad with similar specs was close to twice the price... A few years down the road I can buy another mainstream laptop and still have spent the same.

@@acorredorvManufacturing-wise it is easier just to solder all the stuff on the board or put into SOC. Apple have gone further and put the RAM into the SOC. At least with Intel/AMD machines you're not stuck running Windows unlike ARM devices with their draconian DRM over the OS.

​@@TheMissingxtensionbut you don't usually upgrade your laptop every 4/5 years and you don't write a lot of data. And I'm a massive multitasking android user, so I write a lot of data. That's the point of having not soldered SSD. The wear of an SSD on a laptop is way higher. My WD SSD died last year because of wear and was not that old... On a smartphone you do not work If you don't use DEX

Don't know, running Linux maybe, Windows is an abomination

@@stephanemignot100 sorry to say but Linux is the real abomination

It's not a mac hardware, they need 12 power cores for the same test result what the 4 power cores (basic M2) do, but they didn't even dare to show you the results agains the M2 Max what is a 8 power cores design, so imagine how competitive against the 12 power cores M3 Max.. even if they show that they compared their 12 power cores against 8 cores, keep in mind, basic M series have always 4 power cores and 4 efficiency cores, and that 4 efficiency cores are not there for the performance, so basically it's just 4 cores against 12 cores comparison..

@@thripnixeyoure wrong

@@thripnixeNo windows and Mac both abominations. Linux is the best operating system not even close. That's why even Microsoft uses linux.

I don't think they will. They're competing against Apple, after all, and the latest MacBook Pros went back to being rather chunky. It's the combination of that and M-series CPUs that allowed them to hit those insane battery life records, and I suspect PC manufacturers will do whatever they must to at least equal Apple's offering (i.e. they may become chunkier or slimmer depending on whatever chips are available at any given moment, and according to the market segment they're catering to; obviously there may be also MacBook-Air-like PCs with comparable battery life and performance, and that's also a good thing). The only unreasonably thin laptops ever made, IMHO, were the 12-inch MacBook and all subsequent Unibody models featuring the horrendous and faulty butterfly keyboard. Heck, those later models, until the 2019 one, were completely gimped due to thermal throttling, and in hindsight, that model was still extremely limited when compared with the Apple Silicon ones that followed. As for PCs… I don't see why that's a problem, as people may still wish to buy thin and light laptops and carry a charger with them. That's pretty much the *only* advantage of PCs, user choice.

I remember a 2017-2018 Thinkpad T series laptop had a 96Wh battery, now most newer models of them only has 50-70Wh despite being more efficient

@@Mainyehc I think it's more that that those same companies are just also going to make the x86 versions, and so you will have two models that are the same exact thing beyond the arm vs x64 difference, but perhaps you get more battery in the arm thing, but in either case, the arm thing will do better for barttery, at least to some degree, with the same overall setup.

They of course will People want cheap over anything else

@@nayber2352 sadly yes and this can be expecially deadly for unbranded laptops that gave garbage performance and they are made just to be sold

Many years back I learned about a system like that but with a few other clever bits. 1) The engines were in big insulated boxes with electric heaters so that they were warm enough to get going fast. 2) When the power failed, the engines started automatically and the switchover happened in step with the other system that kept the mains going even when the input power failed. 3) Twice per year, there was a scheduled test to make sure it worked. This was done with all the real data isolated from the machines.

I have follow up questions about your bank’s mainframe. What’s the bank? What’s your name, dob and ssn?

At my company, they had pretty outdated UPS batteries that only lasted 30mins. After they unplugged and replaced them with new ones, the old ones caught fire a few days after.

Bro 😂

And here I am complaining about how 7 hours is not enough. 🤣

bro your battery is LITERALLY ON LIFE SUPPORT, get a new battery

😂😂😂That’s basically a transportable where you have enough battery life to move from one power receptacle to another across the room or another room.

5 mins are enough. Don’t upgrade bro

😆

that’s pretty good

​@@AZiskthat's on Linux too and this thinkpad T14 gen 3 doesn't support ASPM_PCIE/PCIE Link state management. Forcing pcie_aspm on triggers the kernel failsafe for broken bios implementation.

​@@niewazneniewazne1890wow about on windows 11?

Similar times here with a recent Ryzen Lenovo ThinkPad.

😮

do you use auto-cpufreq?

@@Shxvang nvm i switched to ubuntu 22.04

​@lifium downgrade boo

Same story. A damaged battery is a damaged battery, no auto freq tlp config will save us

And you can get a new battery without selling a kidney

And weights 6 kg?

@@hrissan nearly 3 kg. Tis i5 processor dude, and the worthless Iris XE graphics card

​@@hrissan good asus laptops weigh around 2kg and can last upto 7+ hours.

@@hrissan brian less detected

@@boltez6507 doubt that. On my job I was issued a recent thinkpad which costs more than MacBook Pro, it lasts may be 40 minutes on battery. I have 2 IDEs and clickhouse running (no inserts performed into it, but it consumes cpu nevertheless)

Thanks!

or exposing encryption keys like Apple's M1, M2 and M3...

@@matthewyancer Yup!

​@@matthewyancer Both of you are talking about the same thing - side channel attacks

first it's milked 2-3 years then it's "found"

@@Winnetou17 go watch CVE, you'll found a lot of issues with Qualcomm chips or Trustzone in general. Since the beginning though, all ARM64 chips were stated as exposed to branch prediction attacks like Spectre. And unfortunately, ARM chips don't have microcode firmware to allow manufacturers to push security updates so they rely exclusively on kernel patches.

💀

Ubuntu and debian is available for arm based machines and i think other linux distros will support it soon enough

Linux are so hard to use. You need literlly write commands for you computer, so annoying.

@@789uio6y well if u think that ur still living in 2000. All Modern linux distros have GUI and are easy to use. If ur an absolute beginner try zorin os

@@789uio6y We are not in the 90-2000 anymore. For desktop users, there are a lot of flavors using GUI extensively and where little to no terminal commandline or even file editing is required to set the system up. Even on something a bit more IT-oriented like Debian stable, it's totally possible to not touch the terminal for months.

@@789uio6y nah, not with the 'correct' version of linux, then its basically not that different than using windows

For sure!

@@AZisk Alex you are so süß and kind

gonna switch to snapdragon x elite

my school laptop (thinkpad with ryzen 3) last like 5 hours with power savings mode wich is still fast enough in power saving because all i need it for is browsing and some basic programming

Showoff!

👍

Mine 3 and half with ryzen 7 5800U and i never unplug it since i work from desk!

Qualcomm will open the door... but Nvidia and AMD's Arm chips will really change the game. as you pointed out Qualcomm is shady when it comes to open source drivers and licensing, but also, they are forcing OEMs to buy all of the peripheral chips that support the system. power ICs, battery charger, PD controller... so everything is from QCOM. OEMs will reluctantly use QCOM but as soon as there is a more open option from AMD or Nvidia they'll jump

@@stevewilson6193 When AMD started to made chips from ARM architecture??

@@sovietunion9131 AMD already worked on the K12 when Jim Keller was around. AFAIK, they are rumored to launch ARM processors in 2025 after the MS and QC exclusivity deal expires.

@@a740g Okay

Before any of that can happen windows on arm has to actually be usable. Linux is fine but most people don’t use it unfortunately

Thank you! Cheers!

omg!

Snapdragon X Elite 🔥👌💪

Wow bro, that CPU is ancient.

@@mikem9536 Still can play Crysis, Baldurs Gate 3, FFXIV and Helldivers 2. :-)

Do you mean the 8086 which was released in 1978 and used in PCs in the 1980s? Or the Intel i7-8086K Limited Edition (40th anniversary) from 2018?

​@@Pasi123probably the latter.

ofc, 23w for cpu would be way too much

then your macbook is throttled down massively, except it's apple silicon but they are way to recent to have any issue with battery

these arms chips are going to take decades to be relevant, they might never be why? because everything we use needs to be redeveloped for ARM, linux arm has been around for 30 years and it's still pretty shit apple and windows will force developers to rebuild in arm or die, that type of centralisation doesn't exist in linux, arm will be relevant when linux users prefer arm hardware and who is going to prefer arm hardware if none of the software you use support it?

i was surprised how quickly developers added Apple silicon support, if the hardware is that nuts, the transition is quick.@@elduderino7767

Don't forget MediaTek :)

We really don't need upgradable, unrepairable SoCs.

Arm is leading since a long time, think about what phones use, yea it's 100% arm

An Apple silicon macbook will last over 30 hours with an external battery.

And?

So what?

Actually it was more possible because apple basically wants byte code for the apps so they can easily retarget the apps. Plus the memory model is the same as x86 as such it’s way easier.

Duh, so that way apps and what not could run on Apple silicon without requiring developers to target and port their app on day one. They did something roughly similar during the PPC to Intel transition.

@@toddmartin7030 Windows need something similar for sure, Maybe qualcolumn create somethuing themselves

Absolutely. Needs to go hand in hand with windows optimization.

I think Linux is probably going to slowly sneak its way in as the pre-eminate 'efficiency hardware' as we move forward. Windows just has too much dragging it down. Mac is too locked in, overpriced for performance, Linux has much more flexibility and is quickly being introduced into more and more applications.

thanks to their S0 Sleep enforcement aka Standby S3 sleep is Actually Save battery back in windows 7, 8 and 10

I doubt it, they elite chipset is still imo too power hungry 23 watts tdp is still pretty high, should be 15 max, 10 watts preferably.

Newest windows ultrabooks last as long as the Apple Silicon. Maybe you didnt notice, but most of windows laptops have a little extra chip called "GPU" which comsumes about 100W extra but giving much more graphics performance. The Windows 11 itself is very efficient and they reworked its core parts for that to happen

😊 thanks 🙏

@@AZisk :)

That's not how it works my friend 🤣 Apple can't just tell developers and expect them to just follow. It's all profit driven. The devs optimized their applications for Apple silicon not because Apple told them to but because people were adopting it and they saw it as a potential for profit. If devs see windows on ARM devices flying off the shelves then they'll provide the same support for windows on ARM as they did for Apple silicon. It's all about the profits for them.

@@fidelisitor8953 no, Microsoft is not known for making bold moves liked these. For example we still didn’t get rid of the 32bit apps. They have to support to much legacy. It probably will happen eventually. It would be nice if they draw a line in the sand and say, this windows version is only ARM.

It is moreso apple forcing them. If they didn't force everything to ARM then it wouldn't happen. You have no other choice than an ARM based mac if you want the newest one. So yes Apple is forcing them unlike on windows@@fidelisitor8953

When cheaper ARM CPUs and GPUs start coming out for desktops you think people won't jump on it? Imagine a snapdragon graphics card that's as fast as a 4090 but only uses like 100W, doesn't burn it's connector due to excessive power consumption, doesn't require an expensive 1000+W PSU and only costs like $800 instead of $1600. Will you see such a wonderful deal and still buy an rtx 4090 instead? An ARM desktop will be A LOT cheaper than an x86 desktop because the ARM CPUs, GPUs and motherboards that power it cost significantly less to make than it's x86 counterpart. ARM CPU and GPU dies are MUCH smaller than x86 ones plus the masking process is shorter for ARM chip wafers so this translates to significantly cheaper CPUs and GPUs than what can be achieved with x86. From a cost perspective, it just makes a lot more sense to buy an ARM desktop or an ARM CPU and GPU instead of an x86 one so I definitely see ARM taking over even in the desktop market. Manufacturers can make and sell cheaper desktops while at the same time making more profits per device.

@@fidelisitor8953 People will buy the things that work the best. If ARM can do that then so it will be. However 1) I don't see Snapdragon ever competing with Nvidea, no matter the architecture they're using, and 2) Thinking ARM based desktops will be sold less expensive than X86 is a delusion. Tech companies will sell hardware for whatever they want you to pay, the material and manufacturing cost will not play a great role in this (Example 4090). Besides, although I'm not read up to well on ARM, there will always be compromises and downsides to everything.

@@fidelisitor8953 I hope you are rage baiting, or that is an insane amount of copium

It's already dead long time ago

🤢

​@@whatwhatmeno the same reaction your mom had when you were born

@@ArthropodSpidey Average Mac user 🤣🫵 too much money yet too little brain

@@whatwhatmenoyou are the one who started being toxic..I was lifelong Windows user and 2 years ago I switched to 14” M1 Pro base model..today my laptop is as powerful as M3, no need to upgrade, battery lasts 12-14h of office work, about 14h of watching movies..and about 6h+ of heavy use (I edit and render loads of photos)..only part I'm missing are games, mostly the competitive titles like CS etc. even though the horsepower and fanbase is there. This problem is caused by Apple themselves for not supporting Vulkan API besides Metal..for no reason. In the future I'm definitely going for a Mac because of the accurate screens, top notch build quality, fast transfer speeds (which are not dropping), full power while unplugged, ability to manually update the system just by turning off auto updates in the settings and the keayboard..it is perfection..older Thinkpads and retina Macs (2012-2015) had better imo, but in todays meta it is perfect..combined with no body flex, I wouldn't go back to Windows laptops..this is way better..only Apple holds it back, but we will see. (Btw don't be toxic)

​@whatwhatmeno To be fair as someone who uses a Windows desktop and MacBook Pro, as well as Windows laptops, it's safe to say that MacBook Pros are the better laptops for most cases. Windows on laptops is just too unreliable and finicky for me. I prefer Windows for functionality however.

Yes, I think going RISC-V would be a very good idea. They need to add a couple of open source GPUs for the video and etc and some open source accelerators for AI. Perhaps also including a small FPGA area would be useful too.

It's also what i'm saying for this foolish hype, the Arm CPU is not even more efficient than x86, is just the Arm GPU that is very efficient (can run csgo at 20x more, like Micro Magic showed) and can have a better GPU than Arm too since is new and don't have a framework that needs to follow. In my opinion the fight is between x86 and RISC-V. If a good and totally new integrated GPU is made for x86... ARM can´t have any chance for competing, not even in tablets.

@@felipematheus853 TBF, x86 is not built for efficiency in ultra low power. The frontend circuitry dealing with micro-ops translation is a trade off. But this legacy ISA offers a wide range of usability and an incredible software library who doesn't require a ton of compiling optimization for each microarch to run well on every system. So outside of a captive market with a locked down software and hardware environment like Apple has, it's not possible to successfully bring ARM or R-V to the PC market. That being said, the real battle is in the embedded and server world. And R-V is already eating a lot of marketshare from ARM. The reality is ARM is stuck between the hammer and the anvil. Trying to take the x86 market is just a desperate measure, already tried several times.

That's surprising difference 😮 How's that possible?

@@IvoPavlik "My source is I made it the funk up" As a dualbooter, I can tell you it does not make THAT much difference. A CPU with a 35W TDP is still using 35W on Linux too, it's simply doing less in the background. At best you'll gain 12 minutes on average.

@@BlueEyedVibeChecker exactly. I smell a lot of exaggeration in the air here.

​@@BlueEyedVibeCheckerMine has an Intel i3 5005u, which is 15w, I can't be as precise to 12 mins as you are. Besides I am just a user who merely noticed the difference with usage. Maybe you'll find your answer on some kind of development forum related to Mate or from someone active on Canonical's community. "You're bunking up the wrong tree"

​@@IvoPavlikI'm not sure how it makes up for such a stark difference, it's just MATE that makes up for such huge difference, I tried other environments but they probably make up for at most an hour of difference. With an average somewhere near 30 mins

Snapdragon X Elite ❤❤

Yes​@@inamulbhuyan

Mine consume 20% percent per hour watching RU-vid. it's an i7 1260p

x86 is good for decktops though

😮

Hey hey!

no, it's the death of x86.

not even happening. Until laptop users don't change their usage, x86 will remain as the most well-rounded solution. It's too late since tablets and phones took the place.

no reason Linux can’t run on this

Snapdragon X Elite ❤❤

​@@AZisk but i think Linux integration in certain models without needing to download will expand the linux comunity and be better for now linux still way better then windows on arm

you can run asahi linux on a macbook

😂 Era of open source ARM chip What about rPi chips? They are ARM based...

ARM is leading since decades now, all phones are ARM

>The M1 and now its successors are the logical consequence of this! Well done Apple. Yeah, well done Apple, they managed to implement exactly the same class of processor level security vulnerabilities all on their own.

Spectre meltdown affects ARM as well. So apple Qualcomm Intel and AMD. It's not specific to x86 processors.

@@Yusufyusuf-lh3dw Just because the M1/2/3/xyz is based on a type of an ARM architecture does not necessarily mean that it is also susceptible to Meltdown and Spectre. Anyway, the x86 processors from AMD are also not as affected. The real fact is that Apple, as an enterprise company wanted to get rid of its dependence on an actual competitor. Especially from a competitor with whom it cannot fully co-operate.

​@@btsr2553 "The death of intel" yeah only in your comment section.

Not sure why people think ARM, Apple M series and AMD have less vulnerabilities than intel CPUs. Apple has even bigger vulnerabilities, including Pac-Man and gofetch, that have no fix yet. We hear more about vulnerabilities in intel cpus because of their market share and attacks on those have higher impact due to the sheer numbers.

it’s an apple security flaw, not arm

​@@AZisk And still academic, AFAIK there is no fielded exploitation of such "flaw". And the OP's claim of "hurt performance" has to be taken with a grain of salt, because an O/S fix for the installed M series may be a fraction of a percent of throughput.

Snapdragon X Elite 💪👌🔥

Sir please tell more why does Arm Chips throttle?

I wouldn't be that sure, but it's nice to find that not everybody is so blinded by ARM. Thing is, ARM chips so far, that is the M chips from Apple actually have extra advantages that are not ARM-related, and that's why it seems sooo much better. But people are lazy and don't check in detail. Things like better manufacturing node, RAM on the chip, laptop+mobo design with few ports and everything soldered and a non-bloated OS + utilities (here Linux can be too, but it's a bit all over the place). Truth to be told, some of those advantages could've been on x86 too, if Intel and AMD and the AIB parteners actually put some effort into having an efficient laptop (just a few designs, not all of them) instead of blindingly chasing some benchmark scores. I can't wait to see Intel launch Lunar Lake. It will be the first chip with on-chip RAM, which can finally go toe-to-toe on the M chips and I guess Snapdragon chips too. And we'll see then if ARM is really that much better (if at all).

Never is a strong word, but whatever kills x86, it sure won't be ARM. God forbid x86 goes down the SoC path though, its already happening on laptops with soldered RAM.

rofl are you seriously comparing x86 to ARM efficiency wise? that's insanity squared

who want's that garbage in a computer

I fell the battery on intel chips is farfetched. I have an i7 dell laptop and I'm a support engineer so spend my time remote connecting to computers, browsing the internet using our password manager, using teams, onenote and Outlook. If I use my laptop on battery I get around 6 hours out of it and when I connect my 2nd screen around 4 hours. I do get arm can go longer but how many hours are we away from a plug socket. I use the same argument with my Rog ally for gaming.