It's Time for Talk Heathen to Change Their Name 

I'm sure they'd welcome the call. Everybody is somebody else's heathen.

Anyone can go... Also, Seth even had a talk with Buddhists who literally explained this to him on his podcast, The Thinking Atheist.

Talk Heathen technically prioritizes theist callers, but they should be interested in any supernatural claims or questions, including if you believe Mahayana, Theravada, Tibetan, or some other denomination is the most "true" of them. Oh, and this is a little adventure ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-i2wLyhgeYsw.html

Well yeah. Find any fundie Christian and wait 'till they tell you you're either a heathen, pagan or devil worshiper. It's important to notice that for a fundamentalist those three are the same But that's what's the debate about. Both pagans and atheists want to claim the name As long as Christianity is the main cultural driving force it could be difficult to make the change from the bottom up

I believe Zen Buddism is by definition strictly nihilistic, so, depending on your beliefs, and their mood that day, yeah

I would gladly listen to this😂

This is amazing

Came for the Jesus, stayed for the Legos

Please do this!

be careful of the Lego Part. Lego is very sue-happy ^^

Damn that's good.

I think a norse buddhism sounds super interesting

@@doktordanomite9105 That isn't as crazy as you'd think. That's the beauty of Polytheism: you don't have to limit yourself to one pantheon of deities. For example, I, a Norse Heathen, am currently dating a Hellenist and have had some pretty awesome experiences involving the gods she worships, and she's had experiences with the Heathen gods that I worship. I also follow Native American customs while dealing with Landvaettir, because the Native Americans weren't exactly following Old Norse customs while dealing with them and why should I expect the Landvaettir to accept something they aren't used to? That would be like if I moved to Japan and demanded that everyone there learned to speak English because I'm too lazy to learn Japanese. The point being that Polytheism is fuckin' badass.

Ikr! It's not boring 😭 we need more!

I'm sad I can't up vote this more. I agree 👍

Agreed. Blessi þig!

Names belong to those who claim them. If atheists want to call themselves heathens and the term has well-attested semantic range to apply to atheists, they are entirely justified in claiming the label “heathen”. That’s not persecution of Germanic pagans, it’s how language and groups work.

@@mrmaat as stated, casual usage is fine, we don't care. but branding a show, channel, page, blog, whatever as Heathen, when it is Athiest or even worse anti-theist is problematic. it is very frustrating for Heathens who already have to filter out bigotry, to also have to filter out athiest contest misbranded as Heathen. it costs you nothing to not use it as a brand name, it helps us a LOT.

@@andreastewart177 This type of semantic confusion is common for almost any ill-defined set. Talk Heathen content isn’t misbranded - atheist content IS heathen content both by definition and by historical usage of the word. Claims that the term “heathen” applies more specifically to Germanic polytheism have merit, but if it’s really that big of an issue, I suggest polytheist, traditionalist, ethnic religions use more precise titles to differentiate themselves. For example, the word “Christian” is a very broad term that encompasses thousands of denominations, church hierarchies and historical practices. Catholic Christians are very different from Pentecostal Christians, but neither group is justified in asking the other to cease using the broad term “Christian” because it might create confusion amongst new converts. The smartest way is simply to adopt different and more precise language, like “preChristian Norse” or “reconstructed Teutonic paganism”.

Not disagreeing with the problems and goal, but I don't think names can or should ever belong to anyone. That is of course within the bounds of communication, so perhaps here in the case of being consistent with the specific history of a term there is merit to this whole video. My concern is in viewing the possession of terms or names as analogous to possession of land (long term) or possession of cultural aesthetic. Absolutely we should recognize when a people inhabited an area for a long time or a culture championed a particular stylw of art or clothing, but in either case and with the matter at hand I oppose letting anyone have a monopoly on something forever. Especially when words change usage over time. Though to me, this is all second to the overall goal of combating harmful ideas.

And chanting the Greek god " Pan " heard from a distance sound a lot like Pa -rty. Random person, " Why would someone drum them chest and chant .. party ?" Me, " Sorry, .. we were chanting Pan." Random person, " So, .. you all Peter Pan fans ?"

Heathen is anyone who isn't a Christian. Pagan is anyone who is follows a religion that is not 'mainstream'. Heathen has no religious connotation. Pagan does.

@@minutemansam1214 No, the difference is that heathen is a word of Germanic roots, where pagan is a word of Latin roots. It is a matter of linguistic background. Both have religious connotations. That is not to say that they don't or haven't also had uses to describe non-Christians (or non-mainstream or simply non-religious.) I am totally fine with Atheists using these words to describe themselves, but not in a manner that will draw the religious to hostility. (Something that has, at times, been said of Talk Heathen.)

Heathen and Pagan, at least in their root meaning refer to identical demographics. Both has its roots to refer to rural/rustic people that still follow the old folk religion.Pagan is the Latin term for people that lived out in the Italian countryside while Heathens were used for Anglo Saxons out in the sticks that had not yet converted.

Rolling the bones on Heathen Talk gave me list of their popular episodes, this and a bunch of stuff from someone called Matt Dillahunty and the Atheist Experience. Everything pagan or heathenry related came from the "For You" section. On a more fun note, rolling the algorithm dice on just Heathen netted me some cool vid's on a late 80's/early 90's thrash band I hadn't heard of before. So, bonus on that. \m/ >_< \m/

I searched for Talk Heathen using both the all search and channel search settings. They were the top result for both searches. However, I think Talk Atheism or some derivative of that might be a better name for them.

@@Nilsy1975 Not Talk Heathen, Heathen Talk, an older pagan Podcast.

@@OceanKeltoi Oh, your video thumbnail says "Talk Heathen Should Change Their Name" Your video title says "It's Time for Talk Heathen to Change Their Name"

@@Nilsy1975 This'll make more sense after the video comes out, but there's a pagan show called Heathen Talk that is a Heathen show that exists on youtube. If you try to find it, it illustrates a point that I'm making in the video.

Lets face it, De Lancie is entertaining enough people would join that for the luls. Even if they went with calling it Q-ism instead.

I would watch that as long as it is also anti-folkist

@@freyja5800 definitely

interest

I fear you would be overrun by boogaloo bois

@@freyja5800 what is folkist?

Not even modern at this point, it is quite clear Heathen was used by Christians though out History to point out Germanic folks who practiced their ancient native sets of beliefs ! It’s only with time that the word evolved to be kind of synonymous with the pegan , as in any people who didn’t practice Christianity, but like heathen also includes all other monotheistic religions that is not that whatever Christian denomination one subscribes to ! Then Heathen got appropriate by atheists cause it sounds edgy and cool I suppose ! If agnostic people really want a word imposed by the Church to describe them so bad , instead of the already logical terminology that describes them just fine ( agnostic atheists, agnostic deists/theists ) , I personally highly suggest the word Heretic !

I know this reference and I appreciate it xD

I can't speak for other Heathens, but seeing as how the term can also apply to atheists by the common usage of the word, my opinion is that as long as you are not belittling, demeaning, or insulting another group, there is no problem with how you use the word. I sincerely appreciate any effort you make towards being respectful towards us, and I would bet that the other Heathens in my life will feel the same. Peace and Frith, friend

@@jonathanbartlett1098 good to know. I never had any ill will with the term, kind of liked it actually. But I had no idea it referred to a culture that might be struggling to even link up because atheists are using it as a synonym for their own perfectly fine label. I'm an atheist and don't have any desire to muddy the water for you all. Good luck to you!

@@CantonWhy Thank you, same to you. I see Atheists as potential allies to me and my Heathen community seeing as we share many of the same experiences and goals. Separation of church and state with no religion receiving special treatment, science education based on the most current scientific data available, and generally leaving people alone to believe or not believe whatever they want as long as no one is being harmed, just to name a few. Of course, I can't speak for every Heathen out there, and there are probably some that might disagree with me, although so far I have not heard of anyone demanding that science classes teach that mountains were formed from the bones of Ymir and that the oceans were made from their blood

Same. This was really eye-opening.

@@jonathanbartlett1098 all of that is about devoting one's time and energy towards goals. The larger goal is to do everything you just stated, and generally keep people from restricting others due to their own beliefs. There is also a conversation to talk about base beliefs, where in many cases a religion or philosophy or ideology hardly affects how we act, but if the we just let people believe whatever they want without challenge we will never dig out of the first hole. In other words, I think it is nearly as important to get people away from belief with justification as it is to stop harmful actions. Concepts like supernature should be relegated to history books of things that people once believed.

Well yeah the soups been burning for the last 5 minutes

No, it isn't. I refer you to my comment just above yours.

@@grantcarpenter6685 yeah it is. I refer you to the comment you're crying about.

@@redvonmunster3731 LOL! You must be hypersensitive yourself if you view my challenges to Ocean's logic as "crying." TalkHeathen isn't going to change its name, as there's no reason for it to do so. Get used to it.

@@grantcarpenter6685 here's the thing. You are crying and I honestly don't care about the name. 🤷‍♂️

It's worse than appropriation. It's straight up a misnomer of your beliefs. The word heathen heavily implies you are still religious, you just dont follow the Abrahamic god. If you're an atheist you already have a well established name for it. It's called atheism. No need to be cringe about it.

@@tomorbataar5922 Very well stated. You are completely right.

Agreed! These born-again atheists seem to be suffering from an acute case of latent Christianity. And they're not just hurting religious people; they're hurting their own cause. It was this dogmatic brand of atheist that slowed me down on my own path to atheism.

Yes

I'm not new but i'm actually pagan witch with big interest in Norse Mithology 🙄😏

But i'm also heathen 🤔

@@marinakaiser7639 I've called people out a few times when they say "Hello fellow Heathens" when referring to people who, for the most part, don't subscribe to Heathenry. I am an infidel (and possibly heretic), but not a Heathen. Greek? Indian? Arabian? Egyptian? What makes Norse stand out?

@@coopergates9680 Don't ask me i like Norse mithology but i'm apagan witch.Ask Keltoi😁

What's wrong with ACA other than the lefty slant?

Um, they're Atheists and I'm not?

@@riffmagos oh. Is being a Heathen a religion now?

@@neetpride5919 Which part of Norse Polytheism is difficult to grasp? =smirks=

That's atheism for you , just being rude to anyone holding a faith other than their atheistic totalitarian mindset

@@AM-gm5jg Well I wouldn't generalise all atheists like that, Sam Harris for instance is the exact opposite of these guys when it comes to debates and he's about as atheist as it gets. But these guys in particular have a real chip on their shoulder with their opinion of rationalising the world and the way they treat their opposition is quite detestable, to the point where it's a challenge to physically watch the video. But we should be educating ourselves on the way that our fellow man thinks, so we can have conversations that are actually productive.

@@blackbloom8552 Tbf I don't think many atheists are oppressed these days, unless they're living in countries where religion and state are inseparable, nor would I say they're oppressing anyone since that is quite a strong word for simply being a bit of a dickhead, but I understand where you're coming from, putting down someone for what they believe in, or in this case have faith/hope in, isn't the best manor of which to conduct yourself in. One of the problems with these types is that their main argument was "well if you don't believe in it why should I" which has so many problems with it could probably have a whole lecture dedicated to breaking that sentence down alone, but one thing is they're coming at it from as the last guy said, a totalitarian mindset, where everyone has to believe the same thing, and even a bit of a Christian mindset too where you have to believe in a god, or your religion just isn't valid.

@@blackbloom8552 And I totally agree; it's something this whole community is for, it's what this video was for, and it's what I'm commenting for, so things like this don't just go unheard of. But it's important what words we use when talking about things like this, the last thing any of us wants to do Is give them any intellectual ammo, since as of yet at least in the UK (and I'm guessing you're from the us but correct me if I'm wrong) we all have the same rights and protections in every way possible, and shouldn't paint a them vs us mentality as group identity isn't the most important thing we hold as an ideal (at least in the west but that seems to be changing in some corners)

It's owning a pejorative, as the term is commonly used today. When in present day Churches, pastors are decrying the "Heathen non-believers!" who will drag their parishioners to hell, it's a laughable notion to many atheists. To say, "Uh huh. Heathen. That's me," in eye-rolling mockery shouldn't be surprising at all.

It's like how the Satanic Church doesn't actually believe in God or any angels. They're reclaiming a term used as an insult against them (people thinking atheists are somehow satanists) and the idea that not believing in God is somehow "evil."

wicca should be dismissed it was made by an old cis white dude from the mid 20th century and it just steals shit from other cultures.

Talk Godless if they wanna keep edge, maybe?

Why being being logical and reasonable (whatever that might mean to you) would not allow you to "argue over such a simple fix"... Being an Atheist just means lacking a belief in god or gods... Discussing names, or anything else is not something you're prohibited from doing LMAO I'm an atheist and I believe in faeries, so? This kind of fallacious argument just sounds condescending tbh

It might be because changing the name for a religious group could be seen as losing another fight with a religious group and thus the most reasonable thing to do is to not change.

Talk Atheist would be more appropriate. The guy is so dismissive of everyone else, though, and listening to him is quite aggravating. There's no reason for him to debate anyone because he refuses to acknowledge that someone else might have a point.

Seriously, it just seems more clear. As someone who is not a heathen or an athiest, but a Christian (in other words, an outsider to both groups) I would assume that a show titled "Talk Heathen" would be about some kind of heathen/pagan/neo-pagan group. I would certainly NOT expect it to be about atheism.

Oh that’s a good point

Thank you.

THANK YOU!! As an Atheist, I completely agree! I've seen so many condescending comments on this comment section but yours really caught my eye because I think it's so fair. Some Atheists I see disagreeing with polytheist like you said more often than not have little to no idea about the beliefs of others aside from Christians. Which is why I read all of the Qur'an and I'm in the process of reading sruti and smriti. I realize this is not even all of the sacred texts of all known and believed religions worldwide and throughout history, but I don't want to just talk without actually knowing what other people believe. Which is exactly what I did when I was a Catholic and thought that other religions were only Hinduism and Buddhism (since I thought Muslims and Jews were just subdivisions of Christians - yep... That's exactly how arrogant and ignorant Catholics were/are of others' beliefs...). Excuse my English if I made any mistake, it's not my first language.

@@FaiaHalo Polytheism makes more sense than monotheism anyway, especially the omni omni God, which is easy to show does not exist, and there were polytheists at the time Christianity started growing calling Christians out because their God wasn't detectable at all, while the polytheists were ascribing spirits or other supernatural attributes to physical things such as statues or sculptures.

@@AspynDotZip you're absolutely right, my friend. Ever since my deconvertion, I was able to learn sooo much about other beliefs and the more than 1000 gods that people around the world believe in. It's super interesting! Specially about my native beliefs, since here in Latin America, Spanish colonizers forced Christianity onto the polytheistic natives...

From one eclectic pagan to another there is nothing wrong with being eclectic. I have used the term heathen in the past to help people to understand my beliefs. But i mostly just tell people that i am pagan. But it also doesn't come up much as i don't have any friends or family members that are pagan.

Very well said.

Glad you think so!

A petition is a really good idea.

How did you get that mjolnir next to your name??!

@@potatopotahto4500 Channel memberships.

Have they been dumb enough to C&D people who are making idols of them?

" .. Amen .. ! "

They do go far beyond a simple "lack of belief", into active belief in the non-existence of the gods, & further that this belief makes them superior.

?? Heathen talk used one, That was a (bad) Heathen podcast, not athiest. Talk Heathen and the ACA does not use Mjolnir

@@jamesbradleysears7188 When did they say this? I've probably listened to most, and they generally clarify that they hold a weak atheist position

Are you asking me when did they ever mock religious beliefs & those who hold them? Are we talking about the same thing?

Also want to add that I'd much rather watch a pluralist heathen call in show than, well, any atheist call in shows these days. Might help to fight some of the active religious bigotry in the atheist community if they were exposed to more than christianity. Not that most of them would watch it.

Premiere must be acting up. Unless you're a patron or something I'm guessing?

@@NieroshaiTheSable nothing is wrong- I get my internet through a portal to the future opened by Sumerian sorceresses.

There is an overlap yes. But to be fair Discordianism overlaps with a number of new age beliefs including Thelema and Sigil Magicks.

i =hope= to prove you wrong here, but i don't =expect= to prove you wrong here.

There are plenty atheist influencers/creators that aren't antitheist, and even support polytheists. I'm still atheist, honestly teetering on the edge of deciding whether to seriously look into germanic polytheism but I have a feeling that if I do it'll be secular polytheism. That said, I will argue all day that the world's dominant religions have done a lot of harm and are constantly fighting to return to the "good old days." The biggest reason I don't see heathenry that way is because Ocean pretty solidly showed me the difference between the really fascist Folkist movement and heathenry at large. People need to be SHOWN that the problems with "religion" are actually problems with centralized churches that are allowed to hijack culture and turn into governments in their own right.

@@NieroshaiTheSable Totally agree.

The people who provided good faith discourse left ( or got booted out of ) the ACA a year ago. What is left is bad faith actors. I watch occasionally but am not sure I want to support them much anymore.

@@flora-wz4ox That's because shitting on other people catches young peoples' and discontented older peoples' attention. It also catches the attention of those they offend who watch the shit. The ones they offend bitch about it, then their viewers get curious and look them up. The show used to be good, but it's descended into just another part of hate/rape culture.

? .. Heretic .. ? Catholics and Protestants regard each other as .. heretics.

Same , I want heathen content as much as I like to watch scientific documentaries , balance is important in my life

It's not just a catchy name. Its a problem because it bears the name of OUR religion for an anachronistic show. It needs to change. No debate to be had on this.

@@NorthernNorthdude91749 lol, please. As its been pointed out its just a name, it does not keep people from finding "heathen" content you want to view that is not the show. This is as dumb as forcing the word "church" out of non-Christian things because it might upset the Catholics or something. Or as other's have joked this guy needs to remove the word "Ocean" from his name because he is not really a body of water. Are you really a wombat? How dare you take the name of a real animal! No debate; you are either a wombat or not! Ya'll need to chill. The fact that so many of you are this upset over something this stupid and small kinda just illustrates that _all_ religions are dumb. Not just the Judeo-Christian ones we are so used to. Stop being cringy, it only hurts how others will view you.

Vi and Eric no longer host the show due to some creative differences with the ACA on the direction of the show. No one's talked specifically about any of the behind the scenes reasons so far though.

Yes, being a nondenominational pagan is a thing. :-)

That would fall under the lable of just Pagan or more accurately: Eclectic Pagan

I mean does paganism even really have denominations?