Italians in the Battle of Britain - How Bad Were They? 

I knew a WWII vet in Rhodesia that served in the British Army in North Africa. He always claimed that they feared more the Italian Air Force bombing raids then the German Luftwaffe. The Italians usually bombed at a very low altitude, a bit chaotic and undisciplined formation, and hardly missed, whereas the Germans had a higher, more standard way of a bombing raid that usually caused a much lesser damage to their base.

It was the first military attacks on Britain by a military unit from the Italian peninsular since the evacuation of the Roman army in 410AD.

You shouldn't forget either that RAF Bomber Command regularly sent raids against Italy beginning 5 days after Italy entered the war in June 1940. Many forget that British bombers were as busy as the Luftwaffe at the time

I have read Robert Stanford Tuck's biography and he was one of Britain's top fighter aces. His verdict on the Italians was that they were skilled, tough fighters. Unfortunately the propaganda press printed the exact opposite message, even saying that Tuck called the Italian airmen "just dead meat of the skies". Tuck wasn't even involved on the day and he couldn't get the press to retract "his" quote. I know who's word I believe. The press haven't changed much since WW2, have they?

So far the Alps exacted a bigger toll on the Italian air force then the Brits.

If you are interested, the book "The chianti raiders" by Peter Hainning covers the italian air campaign during the Battle of Britain.

What set apart your videos is also that they are very well researched. Until 2011, I corresponded with Serg. Magg. Pilota (Flt. Sgt.) Luigi Gorrini, Italian second highest ace, credited with 19 confirmed kills (the total tally is probably much higher due to the Italian Regia Aeronautica regulations on how to credit aerial victories). He passed away in 2014. He was assigned to the 85th Squadriglia/Squadron which together with the 83rd and 95th comprised the 18th Gruppo/Group. The CAI was sent purely for "show the flag" and propaganda purpose. Without radios and more advanced navigation equipment, the planes were totally unsuitable for that theatre of operation, especially in winter time. The fighters (CR42 and G50) were completely outclassed (but not necessarily outmanouvered) by the Spitfires. Looking forward to the second part which, I think, will center on the "turkey shoots" of 11/11/40 and 11/23/40. During the latter one Gorrini was almost shot down (during his career he was shot down three times). His flying career is narrated in "Vespa 2", of which I proudly have a copy personally signed and donated to me by him.

Anyone who knew how the Italians performed in the Schnieder Cup races would NOT have underestimated the Italian fighter designs.

The Fascist Italian Air Force in the Battle of Britain was mock by British Ace Johnnie Johnson, yet they do there best without performance with limited radio equipment.

Well, I'm British and quiet happy to tip my hat to these chaps. If you told me to go fly a totally substandard aircraft without even the basics to navigate with, against a numerically superior and far better equipped enemy, you'd hear my laughing from London in the streets of Rome. I'm surprised these aircraft weren't overweight due to the size of the massive plums these chaps were packing.

Being a model maker ,ive always enjoyed Italian aircraft for there camouflage schemes.

My late Father saw the Italian aircraft, they came over our home town; they machine gunned a water tower and then a farm in the next town. Until the farm house was demolished in the 90's, you could still see the bullet holes in a brick wall. A wooden house nearby, still has a couple of holes in the woodwork!

The Italian planes were not up to par, but their pilots were game, so give them that.

thank you for this! my mother's uncle flew in the 353a squadriglia of the 20 Gruppo a G.50. he fought against Hurricanes but was shot down and he crash landed in the Bretagne. The CAI was a total failure. He was then trasferred to Libya where he fought against the British in the OPeration Crusader, where he shot down one Hurricand and three P-40 Tomahawk.

While their performance was poor, the Italian aircraft looked elegant and stylish.

Italians: We already lost half of our aircrafts! Germans: On your first mission??? Italians: No, before it!

Battle of Britain is one of my favorite subjects. However, I have to admit that I don't know much about the involvement of the Regia Aeronautica in the battle. Thanks for covering yet another unique and obscure subject!

You got to give credit to the Italian pilots. Being sent into battle with such sh*it equipment but still going anyway. Thank you SHowtime112. A very nice and well researched video as always

I had no idea the Italian Air Force was involved in the Battle of Britain at all. Total news to me. Thank you Showtime for once again hipping me to some really cool & interesting information. 👍

The RA had some pretty camo patterns and colours. I didnt know the Italians played a role in the BoB, thanks for this. Eagerly awaiting Part 2.

I love Italian aircraft and I'm always interested by something talking about the Regia Aeronautica. Italy never had the capabilities to wage war, the soldiers did what they could with what they had.

Another detail about the Battle of Britain that I was not aware of. Good Job, as usual !

Muchas gracias show time. Excelente video. Gracias de nuevo. Muy entretenido!

Great video 🎬🏅. Looking forward to part 2. 👍

Thanks!

The German pilot was Oblt. Franz Hahn (7.) of 2./JG 77. There are several possibilities, including 46 Squadron Hurricane and 222 Squadron Spitfire, so Sub/Lt Brian James Edward „Sandyˮ Lane (Spitfire Mk.IIa P7377) could be shot down by Fiat G.50 of 20o Gruppo patrolling Dungeness, Folkestone, Canterbury and Margate in the afternoon resembling the allegedly sighted shooting Hurricanes.

Thank You Showtime112, you were mild on us... ;-) Very very interesting details, looking forward for part 2. Ciao/Zdravo/Tschuss

Excellent video. This is new and interesting information to me, and is very well composed.

Thanks for this. Another bit of history rarely studied.

Fiat Br. 20 Cicognas were about as oudated as a Junkers 86 twin-engine bomber in the Battle of Brittain.

Nice information, never heard about this aspect of BoB. Also nice cliffhanger))) Thank you very much for as always perfectly directed and executed videos

I understand the next part of the video will focus on the “Spaghetti Party” as dubbed by the British press at the time which occurred on 11/11/40. With the loss of six Italian aircraft, three Fiat BR.20 Bombers shot down and three Fiat CR.42 fighters. 1 Fiat fighter was actually shot down while the other two were lost due to mechanical issues. One being preserved at RAF Hendon museum in London. It is worth noting that most of the Italian aircraft that had been lost during the campaign were lost due to mechanical issues or running out of fuel than to actual combat.

Thank you for this amazing trilogy of videos showing the part Italian pilots contributed to in the Battle of Britain and I would highly recommend any true history buffs to watch these fantastic informative videos

I love this video I learned a lot . They did their best with the equipment issued. Keep up the fine work.

You learn something new everyday. Very interesting.

Excellent video....Thanks very much from an Old F-4 Phantom ll pilot Shoe🇺🇸

Great history lesson, & beautiful video ! Thanks, and VIVA L'ITALIA !

Italy was not ready for ww2

Another great entertaining an educational video. Had no idea Italian were involved in this Thanks for sharing .

Great video 👍

The entire Italian war effort is so nuanced. When motivated and using good kit the Italians were then let down by leadership. Often they weren’t motivated which was actually to their credit. Not wanting to support fascism was a good thing. Then post war Anglo Saxon bias and a willingness to underplay their contribution made the history very muddy. Over Malta, the RA made wild, silly claims of kills. These weren’t for the obvious reason though. It was often because pilots didn’t want to be involved so made claims to look like they were motivated but were in fact just inventing victories to keep the boss off their back.

I knew a CR.42 pilot that was part of the Italian Air Corps (CAI) in Belgium. According to him, many of them were experienced pilots from the Spanish Revolution, but the logistical situation was hopeless: the planes had almost no spare parts, the airbase was made from basic tents with no utilities under constant rain and even the food was very little and barely edible. The flight performance of the pilots was drastically reduced from the start. He was then chosen to train on the BF-109E, as it was planned for the Italians to switch to them, but the BoB ended before that. (His name was Giuseppe Ruzzin, on the net there are even pics of him during the training on the 109)

The Best Special and Seldom,also Unknown Air War storys of All Air Forces and all Decades of War !! Extraordinary channel, Thank You for all this brilliant Videos ! I believe,there was a lot of sleeples nichts for You !! Good Job ,well done ,❤ it !!! 😊

Fascinating. I do enjoy the obscurer aspects of history.

i live not too far from Ursel Airfield, althought you can find memorials of RAF units that operated from the airfield after D-Day, there is very little mention of the Italian detachment that was posted there after the belgian capitulation.

really good, how long do i have to wait for part 2

Hey, thanks for correcting my lousy italian pronunciation. Great video.

Nice video 😊

Harwich is pronounced Harrich by locals 👍. Another good video, thank you.

The main issue faced by the Italian air forces was the lack of advancements in new aircraft development between 1935 and 1939. The BR 20, which was considered highly modern in 1936, became obsolete within four years. It can be attributed to misguided wars and a struggling imperialism that resulted in insufficient funds for the world war. The conflicts in Ethiopia and Spain played a significant role in this regard.

The Italian involvement in WWII in the skies over Great Britain is hardly new news to me, but this video filled in quite a few details, so thanks for that. Because of their what could be described as 'medium-calibre' weaponry both the FIAT CR 42 and G 50 were heavier hitters than would appear to be on the surface and I'd consider the FIAT BR 20 to be a slightly superior type to the contemporary Handley-Page Hampden, so I wouldn't be nearly so dismissive of the quality of those types as you were.

Hans Hahn was a beast. His markings grace every major Bf-109 Emil kit decal sheet.

Never knew this. Great research!

Graet video. Thanks

To a Londoner, it seems the Regia Aeronautica’s impact in the BofB to be a little underwhelming, compared to say the Luftwaffe. However, their equipment was substandard, and to go into battle with little means to communicate with each other, deserves a certain degree of respect for showing more courage than the British usually credited Italian armed forces from having.

I love the paint scheme on those G50’s

Robert Stanford Tuck took issue with the Press for making up a quotation from him "We got them like cold turkeys". they never replied to his complaint. His hurricane was one of those from Coltishall that intercepted twin engined, twin-tailed a/c and also CR42 biplanes. He had respect for them, sent by Mussolini as part of the Axis effort.

Outstanding!

Poor equipment, bad leadership, and a total lack of motivation. No wonder the Italians did so poorly.

The Italian fighter’s 12.7mm guns fired shot about 4 1/2 times heavier than the British 7.7mm/.303" guns. They were also mounted on the fuselage centre line which was potentially more accurate so they were not inherently inferior to the British fighter armament but presumably the Italians didn’t have modern reflector gun sights?

Great video. I was not aware of Italian participation in Battle of Britain. Thank you very much!

A piece of history that I was unaware of.

That was fast!

7:51 anti-surprise surprise camouflage 😃

Thank you.

The belly gunner looks like he is about to fallout!

Thank you! 👏 Fascinating segment... my first introduction to ITALIAN participation in the Battle of Britain.

I knew about this but the history isn't isn't widely known, its good to see relatively unknown incidents like this get some publicity.

Excellent part one, about an unknow story in relation with the battle of britain. I wait for the part two.

Italians fighting WW2 with WW1 technology.

My friend no man will ever tell all the tales of WW2. This tale was all new to me.

I have to confess that I didn't even know the Italians were part of the Battle of Britain.

When early jet fighters were being developed, they put up Spitfires to test the new planes out, those Spitfires could out manouvre the fast jets and get 'a burst' into them as they came accross their sites. The Spitfires aquitted themselves remarkably well. I imagine that a byplane would be hard to get a lock on, made of string, canvas and wood it won't have much of a radar signature, nor much of heat signature from a relatively low power radial engine.

Nice video Are you using IL-2 Cliffs Of Dover Blitz?

It's a mistake to think the G.50 was hopelessly underarmed. It's 12.7mm rounds were much heavier and more destructive than the 7.7 mm rounds of the British. The Italian machine guns also had a very high rate of fire, about twice that of the British equivalents. The Italian 12.7 was also unique in firing an explosive bullet, which could significantly increase damage compared with the conventional solid bullet of other nations. All together these meant that the G.50's overall firepower was broadly equivalent to that of a Hurricane or Spitfire from this time in the war. The one drawback was that a single gun jam would immediately halve firepower.

Very interesting. I think this is a Little known part of the Battle.

Thx !!!

During the Second World War my grandfather worked at "fiat avio" where the G50 and BR20 were built. Despite this, like many other workers, he was an anti-fascist. During the German occupation of Italy he helped the partisans hide weapons and risked being sent to a German concentration camp.

Very nice depiction, of fighter aircraft engagements, that weren't photographically recorded, and/or preserved. Very well, and intelligently put together👍!! WWll, Italian military pun, time. Q. Why are all the old Italian aircraft, in museums?? A. They had to put them back, after they were done!! Q. Why does the new Italian navy, have glass-bottom ships?? A. To see the old, Italian navy☺️!!!!

Absolutely incredible graphics and also a totally forgotten story. (Were the RAF asleep the whole time??)

Fascinating. I would have called myself an aeroplane buff all my 65 years especially with regard WW2, my own father having ben in the RAF during the war, but had no idea Italian aircraft were even part of the BoB!

Quite interesting incident during WWII. But interesting that is all, that should be mentioned

Lets just say one thing about italians and war. They do not like it. Been there done that they once ruled the world...after 2000 years they understood the beauty of arts and humanity and that is where they excel...

Excellent recounting and graphics! Not a very auspicious campaign for the Italians it must be conceded...

During the night bombing Blitz, the Germans lost more aircraft to navigational errors, accidents and equipment failure than to enemy action, and it seems the Italians had the same experience.

I always liked the look of the sm79 although it doesn’t appear in the Battle of Britain , I remember building a few model kits when I was younger

Hello showtime112. Just for check , now 270.000 views for Ta152H 1st part👍👍👍. Take some holidays in spa close to seaside near Spanish border. Good for health, need bliss😊

What video game are you using for content? It is really well modeled. I would love to try and fly some of these in a sim.

The raids on ramsgate hit houses at the top of my nan and gandads road and there's still a crater in the local cemetery were one bomb landed

Later a British pilot reported chasing a Fiat BR 20 . When the pilot dived the aircraft which promptly broke up mid air falling like confetti . British fighter pilots reported it was impossible to shoot down the Fiat 42 biplanes they were so manurable.

This is fun, I'm making a Fiat BR20bis 3D model for PhoenixRC. It's interesting to see the differences between these two planes.

Fall of Singapore . Dunkirk Disaster . Operation Battle Axe & Crusader. PQ 17 Convoy Disaster . Sinking of Prince of Wales and Repulse. Operation Market Garden... Shall we continue ?

"No significant damage" and the RAF mostly didn't even bother with them.

It’s always so funny to think the Italians are the most forgotten about in WW2

So far, the Alps and mechanical issues have claimed more than the RAF. And when the RAF finally mustered in force to respond to the RA... brave men in the RA to undertake the tasks set before then. Like this, look into an aspect of the BoB that is a footnote at most or written to poke fun at the RA.

So do you think you could do a segment on the Fiat G81 through G83 series?

Interesting fact Fiat G50 had World record KD ratio of 44:1 in Finnish Air Force..

The Italians were not modern in equipment or command, but they were pioneers in aviation and deserve far more respect than they get. And they were a menace in the Med Theater with torpedo attacks and later fighters.

The Italian air force was totally unprepared for a war. There's an interesting book titled "i disperati" (the desperate) about the tragic situation. Not only the general condition was bad but also the air force was used with a wrong philosophy. Italy produced only at the end of the war some good planes called "serie 5" but in too small quantity.

gotta ask? if mussolini had not gone all facist, and had recognised his prior alliances, what territorial gains would he have achieved after an allied victory?