Jenova Theory & Today's Perspective in Final Fantasy VII - Story & Lore explained (Spoilers) 

► Update: my gaming content will be on my 2nd channel: ru-vid.com (at least some LotR related gaming videos will still be posted here on the main channel though) What are you theories about Final Fantasy VII's story? Did you like the Jenova theory back in the day? What is your opinion on the Remake (please mark spoilers)? [Hint: a week after release of this video comments are easier for me to see, when you don't answer to an existing comment and post a new comment instead] Shout outs to halkeye777 (translated Japanese texts for me) Check his Twitch Channel:www.twitch.tv/halkeye777 Twitter: twitter.com/halkeye777 ► Social Media: ➥Twitter (@PhilosophGames): twitter.com/philosophgames ➥Twitch Channel - twitch.tv/thephilosophersgames ➥ Gaming Channel - ru-vid.com ➥Discord Server - discord.gg/SPW68vh

One part that I always thought was creepy. The scene where Cloud finds Sephiroth after he has spent the night in the mansion reading about the experiments. Sephiroth decides go see Jenova and re-enters the reactor. When he reaches Jenova's chamber, he literally has to ASK Jenova to open the door for him "Mother, I'm here to see you. Please, open this door." The door then swings open *by itself* W T actual F?!😨

I think of it this way... Jenova is not a creature with a will in the sense of being a singular being; but rather it is a lifeform that simply carries out its genetic destiny to absorb life from planets. It is frozen in North Crater and essentially stopped, its embodiment of a assimilated Cetra is frozen and mindless. The thing here is, its cells are re-introduced, first to Sephiroth; Who is very much a person with his own will and own mind; but his genetics are of Jenova, so he is destined toward the same genetic destiny - (not unlike having blue eyes, etc). Sephiroth inherits all of Jenova's abilities given time to assimilate within the lifestream, with the other parts of the Jenova genetics (Cloud, etc) being subject to him. This is not so much Sephiroth taking control, but defaulting to control. They are in a sense the same will; With Sephiroth being the ego, and Jenova being the instinct.

It was always in front of us: Səphīrōth (סְפִירוֹת, medieval Hebrew form of Sephirot; also spelled Sefirot), is a plural noun in Hebrew; the singular is Sephirah (also spelled Sefira). The Sephiroth are described in the Kabbalah as the manifestations of God that allow him to manifest in the physical and metaphysical universes. Sephiroth also means "counting" (of numbers). Sephiroth is the manifestation of God as well as the concept of "counting". He is just the MAIN avatar of Jenova, her favorite form; while the other "numbered" clones are just vessels of her will.

I always thought of Jenova is like the alien from The Thing a creepy abomination with no defined form that can shape shift into anyone and yet I find the idea of Jenova even more terrifying than The Thing since it can mess with your mind as well.

Personally, I think that there is a multi-generational fight going on, that manifests in Sephiroth. Jenova vs. Cetra (evil spirit energy vs. good spirit energy) Hojo vs. Gast (bad science vs. good science) Sephiroth vs. Aerith (a "hybrid" of Jenova and bad science vs. a "hybrid" of Cetra and good science)

Crono trigger, final fantasy 7 and xenogears i still obsess over the stories at 36ys old

FF7 is basically John Carpenter's The Thing meets Final Fantasy. Imo Sephiroth was his own person until he got a little to close to Jenova. It was then that the dormant Jenova cells became active. I believe he begins being influenced by Jenova at this point. This leads the him naturally building an instinctual drive towards "becoming one with the planet". Which is obviously Jenova's instinct to assimilate every lifeforms other than itself. Then Sephiroth is thrown into the lifestream along with Jenova's head. Normally you'd think Jenova is a normal symbiotic organism, but I believe since it has "intelligence" then it must also have a lifeform that is the head honcho. The instinct is always there but the control must still from the will of one lifeform. Otherwise it wouldn't be able to keep intelligence and be a true symbiotic lifeform. Okay so Sephiroth falls in the lifestream with the head of Jenova which must the original intelligence of Jenova. Now here the either fused, fought, or the most likely was the head Jenova was destroyed by planet while in the lifestream because it was a foreign organism. This leads to Sephiroth's personality becoming the head honcho while still keeping its instincts for symbiosis.

I love this. It makes so much sense that Sephiroth's desire for dominion over the planet is more about Jenova shaping his will. Finally in Nibelheim he succumbs to Jenova and seeks her out - the first act of Hojo's reunion theory is Sephiroth going to Jenova and taking her.

The sword left behind in the shinra building can just be a piece of jenovas body since she can create illusions

Dunno if this comment will ever be seen, but I just rewatched advent children and this theory video was suggested to me. That Movie really enforces just how powerful Jenova is, it totally focuses on "Mother" calling the villains "Larval forms of Sephiroth". In Remake Aerith calls Jenova Dreamweaver, "The Source of Everything". I think she was being very literal as it comes to our narrative going forward. Why did Sephiroth suddenly go crazy in close proximity to Jenova? Why do every single scientist who worked with Jenova cells lose their shit, murder each other, and manipulate the World specifically so that Jenova can complete her original objective? It's all about her, Period.

I think there is something child-like (in a good way) about the urge to explore and find out how the world really works. I might be that which makes it so that children love good stories and want to hear them again and again if there is something to be understood from it. I recall my own childhood where I was obsessed with books, games or movies which gave you a story to think about. I never really got around to play through Final Fantasy VII, but I got to understand where your passion comes from. You kept that drive to immerge deeply into stories like LotR and others. Thank you for taking us with you

Sephiroth has always been and will always be THE avatar and physical manifestation of Jenova. He fell into the lifestream with her head. It’s not that much of a stretch to say that they are one and the same. Sephiroths power we see in the remake is pretty much the type of power that a pseudo human jenova would have. Hopefully we get a boss battle like that in the future parts of the remake to lay her to rest once and for all.

There are many views of, who is in control and why, but in the end Jenova remains the main Antagonist, no matter if she was controlled or not nothing of this conflict with the planet, would exist without her, but maybe the Shinra company as villains, without her Meteor would not be possible at all. And the dream sequences showed Jenova was still active as a puppeteer at one point, until later Sephiroth might take over, but a very changed Sephiroth who was doing what Jenova planned for thousands of years. So again, Jenova might be absorbing not only bodies, but also assimilate the personalities or the personalities assimilate Jenova and she(It) allows it, if this means everyone is on the same side, summon meteor for godhood(just drink the energy grow stronger and move on to the next planet, basicly) A little bit like Larvos in Chrono Trigger, if you think about it. That alien did not have much of a personality either, had no use for cell infections, but was the Meteor all by himself. :D

The thing is sephiroth being the mastermind theory,IF he would have gotten jenova's memories wouldn't he have later learned that she wasn't his real mother AN WHAT her actually goal was. It just make so much since on so many different levels THAT JENOVA is the master mind. She may not have been able to control sephiroth BEFORE he went crazy,but the moment the Nihbliem incident happen she could have been able to take control of his mind. Since he was injected with jenova cells in the womb, he has her blood she is immortal, BUT he's the master mind? Yeah he COULD possibly be helping,but I doubt in control. I also think since she has the ability to turn into people an make illusions. She is probably making it seem like sephiroth is doing all the work. But we see the REAL sephiroth stuck in mako. We also know that Jenova was going to get someone else to mind control AN call on meteor for her,which could be the part where Sephiroth helps her. OR even than that could be her controlling him.

Jenova was posing as Sephiroth the whole nine yards all the while Sephiroth's body was in the North Crater. I been figured that out. The real Sephiroth was entrapped in a crystal like his real mother Lucrecia.

Another thing to note is the fact that Jenova probably needed Sephiroth to use so she could use the Black Materia. I'm pretty sure to use materia you'd have to be a resident of the planet because materia itself is just the crystallization of the of planet and Cetra knowledge. It'd make sense for Jenova to keep Sephiroth alive just so she could use magic which is the power of the planet. It just make sense for Jenova to not be able to use it imo.

I absolutely love all these theories delving into the true lore of one of my favorite games out there, and the way you presented the info and evidence was really well done! :3 Here’s what I personally always believed: Seph is indeed under the control of Jenova. After he began to question his identity and true purpose, his mind was weakened and vulnerable. Jenova, although long dead, was able to live on through the cells in her victims. She took the confusion and hints of malice that were building in his mind and completely bent them to her will, turning him into his own kind of monster (very poetic as that’s what he’s always feared of becoming) Seph refers to her as “Mother” and suddenly gains this motivation to “return” the Planet to her - something that wouldn’t even benefit him in the end. Why would he give up this life he had? He had humanity and a good heart long before, as shown in CC. The fact that despite all the torment Hojo put him through as a child, he was able to maintain kind integrity really shows how strong-willed he is. I just could never see Sephiroth stooping to a point of harming others and the Planet for his own purposes after possessing such good morals. Speaking of which, is just so happens that his goals of Meteor and wounding the Planet have the same planetary destruction motivation that Jenova had thousands of thousands of years ago? :3 Put in simply, in my perspective, Sephiroth was nothing more than Jenova’s favored vessel. As powerful as a warrior he may have been, Sephiroth objectively was just an enhanced human at the end of the day. Would he *really* have the power to control some cosmic monster known for eradicating entire species? Or was he just the puppet? The best part about this game is all the room you have to decide your own interpretation. If you love Sephiroth’s character because you believe him to be this unstoppable force of evil, then you would go with the Seph theory. If you would rather see him as completely innocent, then the Jenova theory is for you. Personally, the idea of the main villain of the franchise not being so one-note and leaving room for redemption if he was to be freed from it all is an approach I would love to see in the future :3

The part where Sephiroth appears in the forest i always believed he was speaking to Cloud when he says the girl will be a problem as he/Jenova were already overwhelming Clouds mind, thats how they almost brainwashed Cloud into cutting down Aerith. Aerith probably realized at the Temple event that Cloud's mind was compromissed and that he'd try to stop her from using the white materia if she allowed the group to tag along. What i gather from all the info is that Jenova doesn't have a personality but is driven by the instinct to overtake worlds, consume its resources, move to the next host. In the game its described how she almost wiped out the cetra, not by the use of force but subterfuge. She kind of reminds me of the Thing from another world, a mish mash of matter that assumes forms familiar to humans to decieve and prey on them. It has no personality, its drive is to consume. It is obvious that she controls Sephiroth at Nibelheim as Sephiroth is also shown suffering from migraines similar to Cloud when Cloud is seeing illusions or is actively being controled.

In Crisis Core, you learn that there was an experiment on three individuals - Angeal, Genesis, and Sephiroth. One was a clone, another's parent was injected with Jenova Cells after impregnation, and the other Jenova Cells implanted in the egg itself. Hollander attempted to make a Jenova clone using his own son and Genesis in that could absorb the lifestream and not take any negative side effects from it, but both of them failed. One was able to absorb it but would be transformed every time he did, the other would slowly degrade with every copy he made. Sephiroth, however, was the perfect 'clone' that was able to absorb the lifestream without losing himself in it, retaining the ability to flow within it. Essentially, it gave him immortality that even in death, he couldn't be absorbed by the lifestream yet could move about it freely. I believe Jenova was another Omega Weapon with a whole other lifestream, sent off after a planet died in order to create a new future on a dead planet. It just so happened to find a planet full of life, and the virus it speaks of is simply the other lifestream invading the current one. The function of an omega weapon in FF7 is to absorb the lifestream upon the planet's destruction, and the other being Chaos kills any living being to collect the rest. He continually talks about doing what Jenova did - absorbing the lifestream and creating a new future on a distant planet with him as it's god. My question really is - is Sephiroth an omega weapon made in human form, or is he the Chaos for Jenova collecting the lifestream for Jenova so they can make a failsafe and create a new future on a distant planet?

This was very enjoyable to watch/listen to! Definitely subscribing. I wanted to chime in on Sephiroth's motives because I've been thinking a lot about his treatment from the world around him. Sephiroth was a super-soldier who was created for the sake of research and weaponry. He'd been lied to by his father about his mother, and the company that basically raised him had, in the long run, controlled him to do their bidding. (That being Killing in the Wutai war, encouraging young boys all over to enlist in soldier, and much more) But, Sephiroth's frustration in Nibelheim didn't stem alone from his groundbreaking epiphany, it came from a want to finally have control over his own life. There were many times in Crisis Core where he and Zack would wonder 'who they were fighting for'. I could imagine this thought constantly ran in mind as he thought about his true origins. Wanting to control the world (or become God) was a step above what Shinra had posed itself to be; a governing god that used it's monopoly on Mako for world domination. Ironically, however, the last person that controlled him (in my opinion) was Jenova. Because the appearance she wears in battle is much different than what she shows Sephiroth while being intubated. She must have changed it to make Sephiroth think that she resembled him. Sephiroth hasn't the slightest clue of Lucrecia (his birth giver), so Jenova had to have been calling him to the room. She took advantage of his loss of sanity/sleep and tried to get him to set her free. After he had lost to Cloud, I think he ended up doing a lot of thinking in the lifestream. And that's when he stepped over Jenova, to then employ his new plan.

Considering that she was defeated by the Cetra in the past it makes sense that Seph is needed purely for his Will and his physical strength. It still makes her the antagonist since Sephiroth is merely being used as a tool to help her goal

Virus = Jenova Cell , I still think Sephiroth overwhelmed the cells through his will .

I think sephiroth meeting jenova in nibelheim triggered some kind of awakening within his cells and initially jenova manipulate sephiroth to take her head with him so that she could manifest herself again with sephiroth body as a physical host but jenova realized that sephiroth strong will was going to carry out her wish better than herself therefore she decide to completely submit to his will. That is why sephiroth is able to shapeshift himself throughout his clones and that the jenova reunion is centered around him now and not jenova herself.

This is an old video, so I don't know if you check comments, but a couple things worth noting: 1) Inspiration for the villain of FFVII, according to Kitase, originally came from Jaws, and was supposed to be eerie/lurk in the shadows and not appear until later, so really cool scenes like the assassination of Shinra became part of this. However, because Sephiroth became so iconic and intrinsically tied to FFVII as a brand, he became promoted and widely used so much in compilation content, so he loses that element in much of the expanded content including Remake. 2) The development and story of VII changed radically when the mother of original FF creator Sakaguchi died durinf development. They used the story to talk more about permanence/pointlessness of death. As a result, it's hard to say if other elements and themes changed halfway through. Also Sakaguchi left Square well before the release of FFVII Ultimania, which reveals that Sephiroth being the puppet master is cannon. Nomura has been given director control of much of the compilation as well, and since he was the character designer and not director or a writer of the original game, it's hard to say if creative interpretations remain consistent. As such, I believe it's very possible with the combination of staff changes and the rise of Sephiroth's popularity as a brand that Jenova was supposed to be the original mastermind and the retcon of the Ultimania and extended VII content upgraded Sephiroth's role to capitalize on his popularity. Sephiroth as mastermind sells more merch is the most cynical take, I suppose.

I was 13 when i played the game (the german version). I played it again 2018 on Steam. For me Sephiroth always felt like he was a victim and his mind got shattered by finding out the truth. Thats when he went into full soziopath mode but got stopped by cloud. Jenova however is a much more convincing antagonist because she/it has the lovecraftian unknown/cosmic horror touch on her/it. So naturally her intellect should be far superior to that of the humans she faces. Sephiroth is to her like darth maul to palpatine if that makes sense. He is a tool, a weapon and expandable. I agree to the Jenova Theorie. That lore that got added later was just capitalizing on the fact that Sephiroth became basicly pop culture.

I always just liked the idea that hojo was acting to 'help' his son in his own perverse way "Atta boy, are you killing all humans son??"

I always thought Jenova just took over Sephiroths mind. He was like a regular guy in the flashback then all of a sudden he was crazy

It would be really helpful to have a side quest to see what really happened when Jenova came down…that’d be fantastic!

I prefer to think of it this way; Jenova isn't quite so much 'the Puppetmaster'; more accurately, she's the Influencer. Sephiroth is at least partially A puppetmaster, but his actions are guided by the influence of Jenova's own will. Essentially, everything Sephiroth is doing, he THINKS is basically all him, but really, he's incredibly susceptible to Jenova's influence. The way I see it is that Jenova doesn't have a mind that operates like a human's does; given her metamorphic nature and initial behavior among the Cetra, I believe she replicates what's in a person's mind in order to lure them in for the kill, like a Siren, or some kind of animal that uses the voices of loved ones to lure in prey. Jenova is more animal-like, in that her MO is a lot more straightforward. This means that she plays off of whatever Sephiroth thinks or wants in order to motivate him toward her ultimate goal [basically to absorb all of Gaia's energy] So if he thinks his purpose is to become a deity and cleanse the planet of it's filthy inhabitants; Jenova will play into that motivation, so long as it achieves her end goal. [SIDE NOTE: I like to think that Seph's motivations are rooted in his disgust for the whole of humanity, first motivated by Shinra grooming him to be an ultimate soldier and giving him some reason to fight anyone who isn't Shinra on their behalf, and solidified after he realizes the very people he thought he could trust had lied to him and were even more evil. I don't think there's a lot of evidence for it, if any, but it makes sense to me] The reason she does this is because, on some level, she knows she needs a stronger, conscious mind to achieve this massive goal, which is why she keeps Sephiroth's mind intact, even through the Lifestream. What I believe happened in the Lifestream is that Sephiroth only survived because he went down with a piece of Jenova [and specifically her head, no less] and the two must have mentally fused, somehow, at least become mentally permanently attached to each other. In other words; Sephiroth is the brains and the mouth, but Jenova is that voice in the back of his head egging him on and pointing him in the direction she best prefers, and she keeps him alive and functioning purely because he serves as a vehicles for carrying out her goal

I really admire your work. The final few minutes of this particular video (musing on the validity of authorial intent vs reader interpretation) was particularly well said. Bravo!

Was 8 years old when I first played this, even then I knew it was something special. Hope you're enjoying the Remake! Awesome vid, getting stuck into watching.

Not convinced by the Ultimania people talk about. Written a while after the game was released and aims to appease Sephiroth fans. I think the reunion theory pretty much tells us the jenova cells are manipulating him, especially with his concentration of cells. It's a tale of manipulation.

The original game jenova was definitely in control, she/it even does what ifalna says and makes herself look like the inhabitants of the planet and uses sephiroth as her host, you could even say sephiroths 'will' is a result of being exposed so early to jenova cells, I mean would he have the will if he hadn't had any exposure to jenova cells? Because I believe it's all jenovas tactic, hojo and lucrecia's son would have been nothing like sephiroth without jenova, Its like they created jenova's chosen one for her, a human looking character already exposed to jenovas cells, who is a hero to people. Another point, why would sephiroth be able to 'outwill' basically a God?, For all we know jenova has done this for millennia, but sephiroth cant basically control her? Why when the only superhuman in him is caused by jenova cells in the first place, jenova is using sephiroth as a puppet. The best fact is jenovas that good at her natural cycle that even fans are believing that its sephiroth, that's exactly what her tactics are, especially a very strong human who is basically 75% jenova already. Sephiroth was pushed after his cult status rocketed. But I believe in my head that my explanation is the original story.

I am of the belief that Sephiroth’s Masamune is actually summon materia, and it summons… the katana. Sephiroth has shown to conjure up the sword at any moment, like in Advent Children, and in the remake the scene where he stabs President Shinra and Barret, the sword dissipated after each stabbing. That is why the sword is left behind on the president’s body, because he can just resummon it later. Recently in the Ever Crisis trailer featuring young Sephiroth, it seems his sword is different when he was younger. It could be that this is before the time he acquired the Masamune, or it’s possible this is the earlier form of that summoned sword. Regardless, this is an important detail that is probably elaborated upon in that game.

I totally buy into this theory. Just based on the literary placement of Jenova throughout the game: She's always brought up in a deeply mysterious way, mostly in the story-focused moments when there's a break in gameplay (Story at Kalm, Ifalna's videos, etc.). Personally, I felt Jenova was confusing the first time I played, because most of the scenes that give clues to her purpose and effect on the active adventure take place in a handful of brief, complicated, distracted scenes that happen before we're told any of the history and facts of Jenova. So she just has this underlying presence of something evil. It's not until the second time playing through that she made any sense The way we're first introduced to Jenova... just as we're caught up trying to learn the Shinra Executives' names and plots, we come to this one room, with this science chamber sitting VERY CONSPICUOUSLY to the side with this intriguing purple light. - I even remember exactly how I felt about it 20 years ago - I wanted to know so badly what was in there that it was making me anxious. It wasn't the kind of feeling you get when you think you found a cool item. No, I wanted it to be part of the story, in some deep way (and this was before all the weird science stuff even came into the story). I just can't exaggerate how BOLD that purple light science chamber was. I remember I was SO WORRIED that it might just be part of the background scenery. - It was such an OCD Relief when Cloud checks it out. There was something unique about that scene of seeing Jenova- like you have no clue what that thing is, but they show it in detail as if you're supposed to understand. It's espcially interesting that Barrett points out that it has now head - I couldn't even recognize that it was a Body at all. After Barrett says this we don't get to re-examine... Later on when we see Jenova in the Niberlheim reactor cutscene, we focus in on it's weird Sunglass wearing Female Face, and by that point the story is so crazy that I wasn't thinking about her Headless image... Not until I replayed the game, remembering that Barrett pointed out her not having a head, was I able to recognize that it was the same body that we see with a head in the Nibelheim scene... -Jenova is presented through the entire game in a way that hides her in plain sight, right at the center of all the Calamity, and even by the end of the game, her existence remains less than clear. This is what makes FF7 so replayable, it has a very shrouded, symbolic, cerebral narration that makes the plot seem completely different each time, especially in the context of who's the Antagonist (Sephiroth, Shinra, Meteor, Jenova, Hugo, Materia...)

Jenova is a shapeshifter alien. It is also a virus carried through its host body, hence the mako tanks in the shinra mansion assisting in the creation of SOLDIERs, and how cloud is "related" to sephiroth via Jenova's injected cells. Jenova utilises the forms of different people which is why you don't see the real sephiroth until far into the game. That's my take on it anyway 🙂 it's complex stuff but interesting 🙂

I should add, in Remake Jenova is shown with Glowing Pink/Purple eyes. I think this is overlooked in it's importance.

Nice vid, I always play the game considering Jenova is behind all of this. It is way more coherent and interesting in many many ways. Not everything can be explained, but the creation of the game itself was a bit chaotic and we can only fill the gaps with our own imagination. This is also what makes this game so great ^^

About the masamune left in the president later in the game you can get a clone of masamune in the gold saucer…maybe that’s how it didn’t disappear it’s just a clone of it…

I like the whole explanation of the relation of Sephiroth's cocoon to his forms at the end + Jenova Synthesis. As a kid, i overlooked what "synthesis" means, and it clicked as an adult that they fused for real and jaw dropped. Now why was only half of Sephiroth's body preserved in the cocoon, is the question?

Great video, I hope you do one on the remake and what you think about the direction they seem to be going in.

Great video, I always thought of Jenova as the main antagonist of the game. Most people I've talked to think it's Sephiroth. I always saw Sephiroth as a broken and vulnerable man, similar to Cloud in many ways, but unlike Cloud he gives in to Jenova and begins enacting her will. All of Sephiroth's decisions in the game serve to progress Jenova's end-goal for the planet, like a puppet being played. I'm still very hesitant about all the changes made so far in FF7R, but it's exciting to think that in this new timeline, maybe Sephiroth actually has managed to break free from Jenova's control and is actually trying to help Cloud like he claims. It would make for the greatest redemption arc of all time.

Brilliant work, if I dare say so myself. I actually remember coming to similar conclusions when I played the game back in the 90s. It never made much sense to me that Sephiroth was the main villain. I actually always saw him more of a tragic villain similar to Darth Vader who was at every part of his life used by others for their own means. Even his creation and birth was not that out of love, but one of experimentation and devious plans to make a super soldier. I always interpreted the story as Jenova influencing him, driving him mad and then using him for her own means. I also never saw true Sephiroth as being evil. It's only once he meets Jenova that he goes crazy. That makes him more of a fallen hero than a villian. And since Jenova is by nature a shapeshifter and good at manipulation, she just took Sephiroth's form to use Cloud, confuse her enemies and hide her true identity. After all, the enemy you don't know and don't understand has a tactical advantage over you, and this is exactly what she has done in the past when she attacked the Cetra.

Even tho I never played FF7 I really enjoyed the video. This story is somehow mesmerising, and I fear a warning for our future.

Totally agree with you. Good job, nice work. Jenova was the real enemy and unfortunately Holy choose to save Gaia, not humans.

Well done, I highly enjoyed this video. You argue your point convincingly, and I think the case can be made that the hero (not necessarily the protagonist) of FFVII is Aeris (I'm sticking with the misspelling after 25 years) and the villain (again, not necessarily the antagonist) is indeed Jenova. As was the case before the events of the story unfolded, the struggle FFVII portrays is simply dualistic, the Cetra (the Planet capital 'P', Nature capital 'N', Aeris i.e. 'The Good') versus an invading force (Jenova, 'The Calamity', the unnatural, i.e. 'Evil'); the whole plot is reducible, not in a bad way, to the struggle between the Ancients and the Calamity. That struggle ultimately took the form of Cloud & Co, Aeris' (that is, the Cetra's) Champions, versus Sephiroth, Jenova's planetary vehicle. I must admit, given the backstory's and character's strong Abrahamic basis, I have some sympathy for the idea that, like the God of the New Testament, Jenova, at one point called, as you note, 'Synthesis', and Sephiroth were, or became, consubstantial; that Sephiroth, poisoned by Jenova's genetics in utero, retained a human(oid) form but was, developmentally, genetically, *substantially*, alien, to the extent that Sephiroth and Jenova were independent persons of the same metaphysical being, which might explain why it's so hard to tell where Jenova ends and Sephiroth begins. Also, total sidebar, has anyone else noticed Safer Sephiroth's similarity to a Seraphim?

It's always fun to hear someone talk about something they're passionate about, the only thing I would add with my incredibly limited experience in the world of Final Fantasy 7 is it makes sense to believe that sephiroth was powerful enough to control Genova just because in all games and movies heroes and villains don't necessarily have plausible sources for their power and their will. One of the things that makes something most exciting in a storyline is when someone who doesn't seem to be capable of doing something does it just because they want to badly enough. I think it's in stark contrast with how reality works and that's why people like it so much. In truth we are limited beings who have been given boundaries which we cannot cross and I believe that the real source of power in our lives is the God who created us. A lot of good popular stories show people escaping from that and doing great things on their own or with their friends help. I think people crave this level of power and control over their own destinies and gravitate towards those storylines for that escape but I might be breaking it down way too philosophically XD it's a relatively well written story which synergizes extremely well with what people want from a story. God bless you and thank you for a very entertaining and insightful video

Yes! Glad you made this. I loved the original story too.

Amazing video. thank you so, so much for this.

Now I’m older my head cannon is that it’s all Jenova, and she only appears as sephiroth to manipulate cloud and the team. If she was pursued by other characters let’s say Rufus she would appear as someone he fears / has unfinished business with. The only issue with this is why give him the black materia in the north crater instead of directly to jenova .

You once told me you named this channel ThePhilosophersGames to be a channel about games, not Lord of the Rings. I’m glad you found the time to chase that goal. Really fantastic content with a very interesting perspective and well researched points. I look forward to the next one!

I've always found the Jenova theory to be much more interesting than "Sad angry man is so sad and angry that he dominates an alien superbeing and tries to destroy the world". To me, Final Fantasy VII is infinitely more interesting when viewed as an experimental blend of science-fantasy and cosmic horror. Will the resilient spirit of humanity survive when confronted with powers beyond their understanding? Or will the spirit of their own planet decide that humanity deserves to be a mere footnote in the history of the universe? That lingering question makes the final scene so much more impactful.

So the problem that I have with both the Sephiroth & Hybrid theories is that, as you pointed out, the "Jenoroth" clone didn't recognize Cloud while in Junon. If Sephiroth was in control >at all

Awesome video!

Chimera Theory. Similar to splicing two different fruit trees together to make one organism, when Sephiroth died in the Life Stream, he and Jenova were rejected by the life stream because they didn't belong on the planet, so they were isolated together and merged to create a separate entity that was a combination of the two: Jenivoth. Jenirphoth? Sevoroth? All of their strength, and only one weakness: spiky blond hair. And probably a low sex drive.

Well done, very interesting!

In the game, I don't remember anything saying that Holy did anything to Sephiroth or Jenova. It merely pushed back Meteor, and it couldn't even do that unless Sephiroth was already dead. Which is why you had to go to the crater and take care of things, or it would have already done it.

I'm just trying to fit jenova and the cetra into the fact that FFX is ancient history of the FF7 world

Well said sir ; this is what i have always thought since i played the game for the first time and even if developers state the opposite, Jenova Theory will always be the cannon for me . Sephiroth , Genesis , Angeal all are victims of the mad people who were supposed to be their family . Genesis murdered his own family because of that reason , Angeal's mother committed suicide because of her pain and regrets for what she caused in her child's life , Sephirot's mother committed suicide( didn't die) because of immense regret for what she have caused in her own child's life . When you visit her in the cave , first thing she asks is her son Sephiroth . When you think of Jenova Theory, story becomes so tragic and the supposed villains of the story become just victims and you start to pity them ; they never deserved that life but their fate just sealed by their own family when they were just in womb , their body abused and their lifes ruined. This adds another level of complexity and uniqueness to the supposed "villain" Sephiroth and overall story of ff7 .

You do fight Diamond weapon when it's on its way to Midgar, although the Mako cannon kills it. The only weapon you can't fight is Sapphire.

Sephiroth was Sephiroth for many parts, and he was not mindless. But it was clearly Jenova the one pulling the strings. But unlike for other that mind control was used. With Sephiroth was just manipulation. He snapped when he found out his origins. It goes along the mentality of when a good kid found out he is adopted and so become a rebellious kid. With the whole, "your not my real parent!" attitude. Even if the parents were perfect. After snapping Jenova takes advantage of his weakened mind state. Offer him a family and a propose a huge one at that. Kinda like a cult work and recruit him. By the end even if/when he reach a point were he learn that he is not a Cetra. He also learn that he is not a Cetra, but something "better" more powerful. With momy Jenova filling his head with "you are not some measly Cetra. You are a *GOD* ```disclaimer you gotta help me crack open the earth first``` A God" By feeding him this "she" can further manipulate him. And he will not care that in the end he wan't a Cetra. So there is not real "master and mindless puppet" between Sephiroth and Jenova. Neither of them is mindless. This is more akin to Palpatine and Anakin or Sauron and Sauroman. Sauroman/Anakin are not fully mindless puppets but they are manipulated, coerced and corrupted into doing their "masters" bidding. And although they fallow their masters, betraying their masters is not unthinkable. Sauroman if he had the power he would bend Sauron to his will instead for his "loyalty" is power based. As for Vader and Sidius is a bit more like Jenova and Sephiroth. Cult like. Anakin did saw Palpatin as a mentor/father figure, he won him over by gaining his trust and feeding him with something Anakin craved. When he was at his worst, Pal was there for him. Like how Jenova was there for Seph when he breaks down. They, Seph and Ani, are victims here, even from their conceptions, there was meddling, the got a bad hand and were manipulated into monsters. Anakin does gets better at the very end, with help. But Sephiroth double down, he doesn't even have someone to help him. Not that I believe it would've help him at the end. He wanted power above all else. You can find psychological similarities here and there, bits, on more entertainment pieces. In DC comics and Marvel, in SW and LotR, hell even the MCU has the Loki finding he is adopted and later throwing a tantrum. And by tantrum I mean invading a planet as a God to rule or destroy who oppose him. Then acting like it was all tomfoolery. I don't think Sephiroth sees as anything that he do as evil, he is above all that. And everything he is doing is a means to an end, to obtain Godhood. Anyway, great video, other than I'm pretty sure there was no clear puppet master and mindless puppet. As for his powers, he is strong with the Jenova cells, allowing him to use powers Jenova has, and it is also connected to the world in his half dead state, tapping in to the lifestream. You are focusing too much on out of time events. Like comparing Sephiroth power now with his strength when he was defeated by Cloud. Not the same. You could say he was more human then, he is more Jenova/monster/spiritual now. Like saying Gandalf is weaker because Sauroman beats him. Later when he return he is strongest. From the beginning Sephiroth true abilities were limited by his "human body" something that no longer limits him. He body is on the Northern crater while he is projecting around the world.

Here is a Theory Aerith is Jenova, she manipulates the mind of those around her, revealing visions of certain things and of the past and of plans of the future. He seeks to reach the heart of the planet, and Sephiroth is trying to stop her. But, the materia still falls into the life stream and still causes chaos.

The Ultimania guide, like the Compilation and the Remake for that matter, was made after Hironobu Sakaguchi left the company. It definitely had an impact. Anyway, it makes the story more interesting to me if we consider that Sephiroth is a tragic villain who faced a similar identity crisis as Cloud but lost himself and became one of the monsters he hated. Taking a psychological struggle and making it more literal helps to convey it to the audience in a simple and interesting way, as a metaphor I suppose. However, Jenova appears to be a chaotic entity itself, so it might actively need to borrow a form to manifest its will, just as the author needs some catalyst for an abstract concept. The remnant of Sephiroth would definitely help it mess with Shinra and the party. He was basically considered dead before Cloud and Aerith came across the headless body, and they would be key to unlock the black materia. Call that a soft hybrid or assimilation theory if you will. It is somewhat based on the movie the Thing after all. Thanks for the video !

My favorite theory is based on a tiny detail most people forget about Jenova and I'm glad the video mentioned: it's a virus. Dr. Gast discusses it with Ifalna, Aerith's mother. It's not an alien organism with some sort of consciousness. It just wants to infect, reproduce and consume everything. Shinra's scientific research discovered properties such as enhanced strength and magic capacity using the cells of what they thought was a Cetra (the pronunciation is not "Ketra" by the way, it's Cetra with a soft c, as it was Setora in Japanese). In reality though, it was the frozen remains of Jenova. In the experiment that led to Sephiroth, when Jenova cells were injected directly in the pregnant uterus of Lucretia, both human and Jenova became one, granting Sephiroth all his abilities but now with a human consciousness to guide it. The Jenova aspect in Sephiroth's body remained dormant until the Nibelheim incident, and from then on Sephiroth was reborn as the will of his "mother". Not a puppet of it but its own mind and master. Finally, in human terms, consume everything meant absorbing all the Lifestream of the Planet. It's not my theory, I read it somewhere long ago and loved it and stuck with me. It also resonates with the more subdued religious themes. Now, if some of you notice similarities between that and Parasite Eve, well both PE and FFVII were basically products of the same brainstorm of ideas Square had in the mid 90s (along with Xenogears in the religious, mental breakdowns and freudian stuff).

Jenova is just like the profound darkness from phantasy star universe, an alien organism with ties to both the physical world and the spiritual or metaphysical if you would, to the sense that she is basically immortal and everlasting, even if you reduced her to atoms she or it would still return because it is the avatar of evolution, in the most wicked and twisted way of it, so even without a body it's will carries on in others, feeding on their negative emotions and corrupting them like a virus. This is all inspired by the mythological story of the annunaki and the first humans who were created to serve the ancient gods who were highly intelligent beings with godly technology and it all ends with humans unconsciously serving a dark entity who created the material universe and claimed to be God, but God is a plural word so that is why you have multiple sources of media who don't speak of a single God but different deities who serves as avatars of many aspects of the cosmos.

After playing all games in the ff7 universe and saw the movie i always had the the impression that Genova and Sephiroth(after his death) are the same thing. The game does indeed leaves you with that impression since Sephiroth doesn't have much character development untill we get to Crisis Core. I also learned some time later that they went with word by word translation for ff7 which was terrible and we, at the west, lost a lot of insight. Very well documented video about Genova overall and you should really cover other games aswell

Square went with the Sephiroth theory mostly because of sequels i think. But core ff7 without retcons I'd say it more points to the Jenova theory

Technically Jenova is the main Villian Sephiroth's mind was assimilated into it and it called itself Sephiroth

Two weeks later, I can't believe this video has so few views. I honestly expected it to explode.

Prediction: In the remake eventually you'll free Sephiroth from Jenova's control (like Tifa helps Cloud in the Lifestream) and he joins your party to defeat Jenova.

Great video! Goes to my top of FFVII videos.

Great video. You really took the time to explain the jenova theory and honestly it's got me thinking in a good way. Played it as a teen but didn't dig into the details. Just thought, sephoroth is bad. Jenova is a mystery. But you made a strong case for the jenova theory which helps me see sephoroth as a character with more empathy. The jenova theory also makes me think along the lines of religious thought, where often Satan is supposed to be someone physically handsome but mentally extremely influential. In this case, the physical would just be manifestations of sephoroth for jenova to extend her influence and destroy humanity. Anyways, do you think that the ending of ff7 is a "bad ending" with the uncertainty if any humans survived? All we see is red 13 and don't know if humans bonded with earth or if they were anniliated. It seems many people were upset by this ending. So I think with ff7r, they are trying to use this theme of "fighting destiny" to offer an alternative ending, which I'm personally hopeful but very nervous if they can pull it off.

This Changed my life in so many ways..what a powerful game!!

I’ve always thought Sephiroth was actually Vincent’s son

Excellent video! You also sound just like how I imagine Hojo sounding

In my head I was thinking that a group of teens were on a hunt to shinra and a girl named Jessie aka JENOVA was captured and put on one of those tubes and the teens were to late

So I took it upon myself to find the exact pages within the Ultimania Omega that pinpoint the Jenova/Sephiroth topic and have found some very interesting information that actually states that both Sephiroth and Jenova are involved together, but there’s a big asterix on the “both” and “Jenova” parts to this. There are actually pages dedicated completely to parsing which specific Sephiroth sightings are Sephiroth or Jenova (pg. 212), but again, there’s still a caveat to the latter. I had a hard time translating that particular page, but I believe my simple layout in the next two paragraphs states it accurately. Beginning with Sephiroth, anything and everything to do with Cloud and the Sephiroth clones who had Jenova cells injected into them (the black cloaked people who were mentally broken from the Nibelheim fire and experimentally tested upon by Hojo) are being controlled by Sephiroth. That’s confirmed clearly on pg. 211 on a picture excerpt, the second from the bottom. The exact quote states: “Reunion is an ability as a Jenova (part/cell), but orders to Sephiroth Copies are for (from) Sephiroth as their master.” (Direct translation, but anything in parentheses here is actually what I believe the imperfect translation is saying. I don’t think any of my additions are stretches, merely clarifications that make it easier to read). The other part to it is Jenova, more specifically her body parts (throughout the game, not including the one named SYNTHESIS at the end) which as I stated before, are confirmed to be acting purely on the impulse of mimicking Sephiroth’s will instinctively, even if there was a time thousands of years ago where she was alive and aware of the use of her abilities to shapeshift, deceive, close proximity, and infect. So during FF7 proper she’s not conscious of this, and also Sephiroth is not directly controlling her, but she is still carrying out his will instinctively because she’s instinctively mimicking his personality, memories, desires, and thus his will. She is simply a husk of her former self, the same way the Cetra are also not conscious anymore, but expressed now through the judgement of the planet. So instead of being more of a puppet being controlled by Sephiroth, she’s really more of a minion, albeit one for a super being who is congruent with her instinctive purpose. This is also clearly confirmed on pg. 211, on the second large paragraph of the page: “Once upon a time (said in this way as to insinuate not anymore), Jenova used this ability to get close to the Ancients and plant a virus in them, causing them to die.” Continuing in that very same paragraph, again on pg. 211, it’s even confirmed some of Cloud’s front/personality/memories during the beginning of FF7 that carry throughout the game are not just Zack’s, but the Jenova cells within him instinctively copying Tifa’s memory of Cloud whenever they met just before the start OG FF7 before Cloud agreed to help Avalanche, where he started acting very funny and unstable until he meets Tifa. Tifa elaborates on this before they really delve deep into Cloud’s subconscious in the lifestream if my memory serves me well. The quote on that page states: “Not only Jenova itself, but also those who possess the cell have the ability to speak (not sure exactly what this is supposed to mean exactly), albeit imperfectly. Just before the start of the story, Cloud, who had a mental breakdown, returned to a seemingly normal state as soon as he met Tifa. By Jenova’s ability within him, because Jenova’s cells read Cloud in Tifa’s memory and Cloud's ideal image, it formed a new personality” (which is the personality Cloud is expressing in the start of the OG FF7). It’s confirmed again on pg. 213, where the quote states: “Cloud, perhaps because he was weaker than ordinary people both mentally and physically, could not become a SOLDIER and could not even maintain himself as a Sephiroth copy like the other residents of Nibelheim, and his spirit completely collapsed. After reuniting with his childhood friend Tifa in Midgar, he was supported by a false personality that was neither a copy of himself nor his original self.” These examples are here to show how Jenova(‘s remains) can have her (their, in relation to her remains) abilities instinctively (also to say unconsciously) work in other aspects even outside of the Jenova/Sephiroth original debate. So while both Sephy and Jenova are involved and shown in Sephiroth’s image, sometimes it’s Sephy actually taking control (like the cases of Cloud and those in black cloaks) and sometimes it’s an instinctive Jenova part, which instinctually mimics the shape, memories, and will of Sephiroth, again more like a minion, as Sephiroth isn’t actually directly controlling her 3 main parts, but she is robotically going through the motions of doing what she does as a mimic, and she has most likely instinctively mimicked what would most closely serve her instinctive purpose of destroying a planet and moving on to the next one to do the same. Sephy probably learns of Aeris’ death on his own, as she went back to the lifestream he was inhabiting when she passed (maybe Sephiroth also has some way of learning what parts of his will are carried out by her parts somehow as well? Not sure and can’t speak to it atm, but just a thought that came to my mind along this logical path of thought). Something else that speaks to Sephiroth and his power is stated on pg. 213 regarding why some like Cloud get overcome, some like Zack don’t, but again mainly why Sephy has his power: “The case of Sephiroth is extremely special. Until he learned the secret of his birth, he lived as a human despite his legendary strength, and five years ago he began to walk a different path from humans. However, instead of being placed under Jenova's control, he seizes Jenova's initiative and controls their actions. This fact makes us feel the extraordinary strength of the life form Sephiroth.” It’s also stated within the book that Sephiroth does officially die in Nibelheim 5 years ago (around the same pages mentioned already but if you want a specific passage I’d gladly go back in and find it), showing within FF7 proper itself how the great mechanic of the lifestream that speaks to the beautiful theme of life that the game is conveying is also what allows Sephiroth to be this Lovecraftian type fear and entity, one who does not die or completely cease, always looming, who can actually come back to the surface through the means of a weak/broken mind (or possibly even a willing participant). Please let me know if you would like pdfs of these pages as well in case you would like to copy and paste them into translation programs to see it for yourself. Pdfs of the Ultimania Omega can also be found on google, as well as more translations about these topics and many other pages of support from the Ultimania Omega on gamefaqs.com (can also provide that to you as well). I’d also love to hear your opinion on all this as well. Let me know if you have anything you’d like to share.

I'd like to see a revision of this with the remastered ff7+Advent Children story. Would be interesting.

Sephiroth does not have mommy issues, he has daddy issues. His foster father was mad.

Poor Vincent. His own son was used as an experiment from the evil Hojo

I think the Seph theory makes sense. If you think of it as jenovas will to fuse with humanity in order to evolve and access the planet. If you think of living things evolving through their prodgeney than it makes sense as a logical step for jenova. Its probably how it got its last form as well.

Wow great theories. I am also leaning to the Jenova theory. So as long as Jenova is alive, "Sephiroth(Jenova zombies or puppets) " or any other jenova impersonations will be able to return over and over again or take other forms.

Heck, jenova probably made shinra start to extract mako energy to weaken it. And then spread its cells.

It would totally be a great hypothesis/theory. I have to show this channels, that got together. Well, Sephiroth was closest to Jenova the closes to possibly used mind corruption and pheromones, like part of the Reunion she called told him. There’s a few novels or books of story telling that are cannon leading to support your theory was there. A Road to a Smile, and I forgot the other 2. Like 👍🏽 your video

Whether you think Sephiroth is leading the charge or you think Jenova is in control, you can't deny that her will to seek power is the driving force of everything. Sephiroth is the continuation of the calamity that came from the skies.

One thing i find creepy about Jenova is how she's just there in her pod. Forgotten and frozen in time, mid transformation. You can't really tell whether its dead or alive as it stares through your soul with that piercing red eye. You don't even know what you're looking at for the most part and it sort of crosses into the "uncanny" knowing that this vaguely humanoid looking *thing* is anything but human. Its face, its body its organs are all false and probably don't function like a real human making the already unnerving gaze of jenova even more horrific when you realize that her face is essentially a mask hiding the true abomination.

Great video! Thank you for making it. I just finished original ff7 and I really enjoyed this video. Have you played the remake? And if so have you seen the theory that sephiroth in the remake is from the future or the original ff7.

Watching this as i play FF7 Rebirth demo!

This Is a great video

I awlays thought the original intent was Jenova being mastermind of all. But it happens Sephiroth's popularity was way beyond any predicition, pretty much like a pop figure. Hence SquareSoft (later SquareEnix) chossing Sephiroth as the overmind.

Very interesting. This kinda reminds me of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 (it’s one of my favorite games). Malos is an Aegis of destruction and hates all life made from his creator...but those feelings come from the driver who awakened him, Amalthus. So, Malos was manipulated and Corrupted by another. And while Malos is the final boss, he never felt to be the main antagonist. The Jenova theory feels very much like this. Why interesting.

Kind of a side topic but I read a theory somewhere that Jenova could be a Lavos spawn, however a not yet developed one, that was seperated from the main husk in order to seek out other planets and worlds to consume. Square loves their cosmic parasites.

There's always something like this in each Final Fantasy. Like Rinoah being Ultimecia. But I think there are several writers for these games who each are in charge of different characters and/or areas and one guy who edits all that into a game. For instance he says it isn't true that Rinoah is Ultimecia but there's enough evidence in the game for it to hold up in a court of law lol. So I think sometimes there are differences in opinion even amongst the Square Enix team. Like for instance the connection between X and VII.

43:30 ish, by the time cloud meets jenova on the boat, hes already been injected with jenova cells. So she should have not only known him but also had control of him.

I mean, like duh Jenova is the main antagonist. One of the most compelling parts of the story is when we witness Sepheroth attain enlightenment to the fact that he is only a puppet to it. He spends the entire game worshipping and bumbling about it. I dont feel like anyone is confused about that

To comment on the theory though. Some things to consider. Seph was impaled by the Buster Sword. Ouch. I can see this completely severing his torso..I'm most on board with the hybrid theory, but leaning more towards Sephiroth in control and here's why. So his severed torso and Jenovas head fall into the Mako. I think to survive she fuses with him however he's still the upper half or the mind of the fusion. Gaining her knowledge and power as well as that of the lifestream. I also don't think Jenova would just remain Sephiroth. Why wouldn't she eventually drop the charade?

Great work. Just finished FFVII for the first time last night and I couldn't wrap my head around Sephirot and for me mostly felt - to describe it bluntly - as a scarecrow/phantom created by Jenova as he was known as a very powerful soldier - for me the Jenova Theory is not just the most fascinating but also the theory which makes the most sense. I still do have some open questions and ideas - which is why i will replay the game with "Beacause" retranslation mod again - with the danger running into more confusion. There is one thing I would like to discuss - its Cloud. Who is he, is he really a failed experiment? Why does no one remember Cloud and Tifa when they return to Nibleheim? Why do only Cloud and Tifa share similar memories? No pun intended, but Clouds memories are clouded - and we only get fragments of what might had happend in Nibleheim - and furthermore how he did overcome Jenovas control? At some point in the story even Jenova should have noticed that Cloud is becoming very powerful and a threat. Furthermore, Cloud also fell into the lifestream and survived it. I will replay it again and will see if there are any clues - strengthening my Cloud Theory. Was Cloud Jenovas backup for Sephirot or an antagonist deceiving her (unconsciously) - created by his own will or maybe by other entities? Or maybe its just a blunt love story between Cloud and Tifa and how Cloud found the drive to overcome his fears. Tifas martial arts master Zangan, carries and keeps her alive after the incident in Nibleheim to Midgar - thats what we found in the note hidden in Tifas sheet music. So what did happen to the people in Nibleheim and to Tifa and Clouds memory after all - where does their special connection come from? Maybe Tifa is also living false imprinted memories? Cloud is the one stopping Jenova with the help of his friends - how could he complete such a difficult endeavor - a failed experiment, just a puppet to Jenova - and in the end more powerful as her? Was there a turning point, a point in time when the planet chose him to become his avatar - was this before or after Aeris (Aerith) death? It seems that cloud is cleansed after defeating Jenova - which would make sense, as cleansing him before would have alerted Jenova, and she might not have let him that close. There they are - my incentives for another playthrough. I'd love to discuss them with you @ThePhilosophersGames and people in the chat here.

I know I'm years late to the party, but have you checked to see the meaing to some of the japanese words? I know there are two used as "I" those words neing ore (an informal way to say "I" usually used by men with people they are close with) and watashi (a genderless term that translates to “I”). Sephiroth only uses ore BEFORE he finds out about jenova and uses watashi after. that little change makes a world of differance and supports the jenova puppet master argument. after all,

my theory. Ff 10 and ff7 are in the same universe. Sin from ff10 is Jenova from ff7. The people from 10 found this new planet and Sin followed.