5 mins? Shit, the merest thought of a actual real life female touching his leg would cause this Paul Rogers kid to blow his itty bitty tiny little load in his Spiderman tighty whities 😂
Props for John McCarthy, very cerebral and professional to the core. The sport of MMA would be nothing without his professionalism and near-perfect reffing,
@Tekagi John talks about it in his book about how he was actually wanting to compete in UFC since he was part of the Gracie school but the Gracies talked him out of it and put him as the referee. As far as MMA goes the man is on the Mount Rushmore, is arguably the biggest contributor to MMA and undoubtedly at the fore front back then of legitimizing MMA as a sport instead of human cockfighting.
Who doesn’t want to hear “ARE YOU READY??? AND ARE YOU READY??? ALRIGHT LETS GET IT ON!” And a big ass clap. He was the first guy from UFC who I’d pretend to be when I was a kid.
It's a good idea but I think it would be a greater book after he retires and can write on all the different experiences with all the companies he's been associated with.
Merman thats wat i thought n clicked. better its john interesting hear from a pov with his thoughts he seen lots of fights. mma intellect beyond genius lvl. jmo i agree ur comment
@@John5.56 ok nvm your just to stupid to comprehend what im saying what constitutes up and down? Perspective up and down isnt a thing without perspective someone laying downs up and down is different then someones thats standing up and someone's up and down in china is polar oppisites then someones in the u.s. and thats the argument neither one is wrong and thats why its stupid to argue about it the rules just dumb
I think Herb Dean's explanation of why he said the 12-6 elbow is illegal from the guard, just goes to show how great of a referee he is. Thinking outside of the box and enforcing the rules from all angles. It's still a 12-6 elbow if you do think about it. A weak one, but technically still one.
Yeah he was definitely in the right about that unlike Big John. 12-6 is pretty self explanatory it means straight up and down in relevance to YOU. If you're on your back lifting your hand above your head and then right back down in the opposite direction that is still straight up and down for you. It is the same motion with the same effect. Hence, illegal whether standing or not.
No it isn't still a 12-6 elbow because as john already established in this video you clown, the nut job who insisted on the rule being made specified that it's only illegal if thrown from the ceiling to the floor.
@@bestieswithtesties You have a mental shortcoming for sure lol. If the rule was made for a silly reason by a guy who knows nothing about fighting and JOHN was the one present at the meeting who confirmed that they only had to make it illegal should it be thrown from the ceiling to the floor, then how is he wrong about it you clown? It's a garbage rule either way and you prefer herb dean's method of needlessly expanding the rule to mean something it didn't originally mean? Watch the video again and pay attention this time
It’s also illogical though and you explained why when you said ‘a weak one’. The whole reason the rule was enforced was because of the power it generates. It’s significantly weaker from the bottom position so why should that be illegal. Tbh the whole 12-6 rule is illogical when compared to flying knees and spinning kicks.
Jason Bliss when's the last time u landed an execution style kick to the head? Probably never cause it's really fucking hard, even harder so against a trained fighter. Doesn't matter how trained u are, if u can barely move and someone smashing your orbital from above
Same, to this day its the most brutal KO I've seen. I think alot of it has to do with the sound. Since there's no crowd you can hear the full impact and the worst part imo is hearing the guy gasping for air unconscious and contorted as fuck.
@@callanc3925 That would look fun af. Remember beyblades?😂😂😂 I just imagine Jon Jones doing Ballett like Pirouettes, smashing his elbow into somebody’s face lol
@@callanc3925 but a 12-5 is allowed though and it does the same thing. 12-6 is just a dumb rule either take out elbows of that 12-6ish type or allow 12-6
@@Alvah707 Physically they dont do the same thing, they are similar. But refs need to have clear rules on whats allowed and what isnt otherwise there would be a controversy every fight. 12-6 are easy to judge because the ref just needs to watch for a straight up and down line. 12-5 are hard to identify properly because a ref needs a mental protractor to tell if theyre at the right angle to be legal
John McCarthy adds a lot of legitimacy to MMA. Well-spoken, very experienced, fair/balanced and thinks things through. One of the biggest assets of the UFC. He's a legend.
Don Holbrook he was actually going to compete in the first or second ufc. He was a student of rorion's, if I remember right. He's the dude who scared the f out of art jimmerson before his fight with Royce - and hence why he tapped with no strikes thrown.
I had read once that the concern with the "12-6" was more about the likelihood of the point of the elbow hitting the opponent's eye socket, such as a fighter with mount dropping them straight down to the face of the person underneath.
The elbow is dangerous not because of the power it generates, it’s the fact that it’s a thick pointy bone going straight to your face. Imagine your on the ground and someone throws a 12 to 6 right to your eye socket sure there are other techniques that generate much more power but the 12-6 has the potential to do career ending damage
Exactly, pretty much the same as dropping a hammer dead on your skull from like a 3 metre height. The swiping type motion is far safer and still gets the “job done”
That’s why Khabitch didn’t came outside that bus.Cause Conor would have killed khabitch. Remember 12 to 6 or straight elbows are not restricted in a street fight.
I remember a 300+ lbs Gary Goodridge used a volley of rapid 🔥 12-6 elbows on middleweight Paul Herrera while he had him crucifixed. It was insanely cool to watch but at the same time brutal as hell. He was literally knocked senseless and ultimately TKOed
Not to mention the impact being magnified because your head is normally pinned to the ground if you are on the receiving end of and absorbing most of the impact. Kinda like the impact of a punch being much greater if the opponent is moving toward the striker than away. Makes total sense why it is illegal.
SaintsBrees09 they record it live and you can watch it right after. Sometimes Jamie puts clips up while the podcast is still in process, but RU-vid is slacking with a lot of people. It’s on RU-vid now but I watched it on Twitter before they uploaded it again.
What always bugs me about the conversation around elbows is that it ignores the increased pressure applied by using a smaller surface area. Applied pressure is what causes structural damage to objects, it's the reason you can break the skin with just a gentle poke of a small needle, but not necessarily with a powerful punch. I'd argue there's a higher chance of severe cranial damage using a 12-6 elbow than any other angle, precisely because it allows you to increase the force of the strike (putting the entire mass of your torso into the strike), while dealing the damage through a very small surface area (Pressure = Force/Area). A smaller surface area results in a greater pressure, assuming the same force. A little bit of physics understanding goes a long way.
you can put your entire bodyweight into regular elbow strikes tho too. with gravity. like sitting on your punches but with elbows. you can absolutely throw your entire weight into a hook elbow. and that angle can hit the temple which is one of the weaest parts of the cranium
Applied pressure is also why punching someone with brass knuckles is so much worse than with a bare fist. It's not because the metal is harder than your hand, but rather because it concentrates the force of the punch to a much smaller surface area.
This is nonsense because regular elbow strikes are allowed and you can throw a regular elbow w the weight of the whole torso behind it just as easily. If I am on top of an opponent w ground n pound I throw an elbow 12-6 vs at an angle i can still throw my whole weight behind the strike and still have the assistance of gravity as well so the gravity stuff is also nonsense (just want to bring that up before another dingus mentions it). In fact when you throw an elbow at an angle you’re twisting your body across and using your obliques more which allows you to generate a ton of power, I would not be surprised if regular elbows are more powerful that 12-6 ones
While I think the 12-6 elbow should be legalized, I am reminded of an early UFC match where a guy had his opponent in a crucifix and just dropped repeat 12-6s into the other dude's temple. One of the most brutal KOs I've seen.
Or you could just let it be. If you're still watching, it's still safer and you can enjoy it knowing that these people can absolutely go home to a family at the end of the night instead of a hospital. Js
Phillip Gratton the top of your head is the hardest part of your skull man, I've broken my knuckle on my brothers head a couple times sparring lightly.
Phillip Gratton well you ain’t allowed to hit the back of the head anyway, that’s illegal. And most of the time a 12-6 elbow will only come into play from the top mount, so most of the time the strike will hit the four head and face and maybe the top of the skull, and as John said 1-7 is legal 11-5 legal and it’s hardly much of a difference. It’s just stupid politics nothing more and nothing else.
Phillip Gratton it's a smashing the top of the head whilst propped against the ground issue that is dangerous, as well as they can't defend themselves well when mounted
Smart guy big John. Very eloquent and articulate, no er's, no um's or pauses. Easy to understand. I would love to talk like that in just everyday conversation and here he is on a live podcast talking and explaining stuff to the masses.
Thanks Big John Mac, Thanks Joe Roe for allowing Big John to properly explain himself in this fantastic and informative interview conducted by two knowledgable professionals in MMA today!
I was up late and even my friend who knows close to nothing in mma started talking about this and discussing it and such. I like this topic and others like it because it opens people up to discussion and learning. Keep doing these topics and everything else! You're great
I was under the impression that the 12-6 elbow was illegal only on the mat. The rule would make sense to me mostly because if a fighter has their head resting on the mat and it is struck directly towards the mat there would be a lot more energy staying where you're striking. (Didn't say that quite as well as I could have)... Example: You have a hammer and nail. You hit the nail on the head with the spike in mid air with the hammer. There's barely any damage to the nail. You hit the nail on the head with the spike on wood. There's barely damage to the nail, but more than in mid air. You hit the nail on the head with the spike on concrete. There's a lot of damage to the nail, but more than against the wood.
I totally understand why it's illegal cause I jumped to get a basketball and landed on a significantly bigger dudes head with my elbow once, he was out cold...
The whole thing I was talking about was an accident btw lol not bragging...but in response to "and that changes what?" is everything I would rather fight a non trained fighter then a trained one lol deerrrr..
Herb Dean shit was hillarious :D Yet, I think he have a point. Your body position changes horizontally when you are on the ground, so you literally just doing same elbow just from different position horizontally.
A heel kick has many many more times the power that a 12 to 6 elbow has though. It’s indisputable that you can fuck someone up with a heel kick or spinning back kick way more than a 12 to 6 elbow strike for strike. besides If anybody lands even 20 unanswered 12 to 6 elbows the ref should be in jail
A good tae-kwon-doker can get a immediate knockout with a spinning heel/wheel. If your hitting someone with 40 elbows the ref should of already stopped it. And do u know how weak a 12-6 really is.
They are forgetting one thing though... *PRESSURE*. Pressure is the difference between breaking a bone upon impact, be that a skull upon an elbow. And a 12-6 makes it very easy to hit directly with a smaller surface area, even when compared to diagonal, upwards and side elbows. In terms of force, a 12-6, between too identically weighed opponents, might not involve as much force or power as a kick or a knee. But it can deliver more pressure. A 12-6 elbow can also hit with relatively high amounts of force when compared with other elbows, given as it's powered by different muscle groups, specifically the lats, while also being powered by gravity. When compared with other strikes (punches, knees, kicks) an elbow can deliver a lot more pressure, since it makes contact with a much smaller surface area. And pressure makes the difference between breaking a bony surface or not or piercing the flesh or not piercing, as elbows themselves have already showed to cut extensively. So we can understand that a 12-6 elbow might be the strongest elbow, and that elbows in general will already translate to larger amounts of pressure. 1- It's the same reason as to why you can lie down on a bed of nails: the force of your body into each nail is scattered throughout all of the area of the body, thereby reducing the pressure of each nail. 2 - The same reason why people use large surface footwear in the slow = increase the surface area --> reduce pressure of the feet in the snow ---> less pressure so you won't sink in the snow. 3 - Same reason as to why, theoretically, a woman's heels stepping on you, can amount to the same pressure as an elephant steping on you. Less force/weight (i,,e, a woman's mass times gravity compared to an elephants, thereby a lot less force) but through a needle heel, a *VERY* small surface area. Generating absurd amounts of pressure. if Pressure = Force / Area, then, in the case of the 12-6 elbow, you can put all of your force into a very small surface area - the olecranon - that is the actual bony protrusion that is the "back" of elbow, and amount to great deals of pressure. Same concept as breaking a glass with a needle. Couple that with a frontal bone, and you might generate more pressure on it and fracture it, when compared to a knee or a shin to a forehead, because even though they carry more force, their points of contact have a lot more area! Also, keep in minds that the frontal bone is relatively prone to fractures, given as it's flatter, just like Cyborg santos's frontal bone fractured and caved in after MVP kneed him in the forehead. Now... is the amount of pressure that's generated by the 12-6 elbow significant? we don't know and it depends on skull structure and size of the person. But it's also not as simple as it being purely about Force or Power like Joe and John are discussing, it.s about pressure too. 4 - *Don't forget the example of hand fractures!* Bear hands make contact with the knuckles, not a whole glove, thereby a much smaller surface area.Which is why gloves are used! With bare knuckles, the punches will actually have less force behind them and ability to cause concussion and brain damage, but the knuckles can break a lot more easily, seeing as the only points of contact are the two small knuckles, not the area of a whole glove, or you can even brake facial bones a lot more easily. They care about fighters not breaking bones because it'l stop them from fighting short term! it's not actually to protect the head! same as headgear, it doesn't protect against concussive brain damage, quite the contrary. Joe actually talks about this extensively while saying gloved hands cause more brain damage, and he's right. I don't have an answer but i do agree with you in one way: this is not that clear cut conclusion.
Bernardo W. Lopes all I read was pressure, but yah how do people not think of that, big difference between throwing strikes at a head with nothing but air holding it in place
McCarthy really knows his wrestling. Even uses old Catch wrestling lingo with "Spiking" and "Arches" etc.. A very rare breed these days, with all the clueless BJJ-fanboys running rampant on different organizations.
