I took karate as a kid, and one time they made me and some girl spar. The girl was like two grades above me and bigger than me. So, anyway, were sparring and I landed a perfect front kick to her midsection. She made the noise one makes when all the air gets knocked out of your body. I felt kind of bad, but the fucked up part was what happened afterward-her fucking grandma was there, & the old lady came after me with full force. I was like wtf?! I was about to lay her grandma’s ass out, too, but they were able to corral her. Anyway, thought I’d share a funny story...
+MrCalmlikeaBomb Stick with it man. I'm in the same boat. I'm 6 months in, and I'm just starting to feel like I'm STARTING to understand it. I didn't agree with this video at first, but now I'm realizing it's very much true. You don't push your limits by rolling with lower-skilled classmates, but you certainly improve your technique and skill.
I'm in the same boat . I've been tapped over 250 times in a course of 6 months of Bjj. I just choose to keep showing up because I'm obsessed with self defense
Don't be man. It's a journey. Fellow white belt. And he's right to a point. When I roll with purple and higher I never win but they dumb them selves down to let me work. And when the tap me the show me what I did wrong or simply didn't know.
Don't feel bad if you are that blue belt for 2 reasons. A. Your defenses will get sick. and 2. The upper belts using you to hone their attacks were once in your position and you will eventually be in theirs.
Chuck TheTruck simple as that u gotta keep going amd then go home and study videos of stuff ur class isnt working on, study magazines, like when i started in 05. unfortunately im a commercial fisherman as well, which in turns takes up way too much of my time, soci dont get to train like i wamt classes are mon wed fri at 7 and open mat at 3pm weekly and in the morning on saturday. so to keep my body fluid i do alot of drills that i got from jason scully, his solo drilling is awesome.! of course its not body on body, but it helps, one of teammates was in the gym late night lifting weights and seen me drilling for an hr str8, went backcand told coach one of my best friends justin “monster” brunet fight sports blackbelt which he recieved from cyborg himself who also isnthebman who wrapped my purple around mine. im a little behind, if it wasnt for fishing id def be a brown belt and maybe close to black, seeing that im the one that got justin into jiujitsu and he flew off with it, which im very proud of, but a little behind because for the first 3yrs of training we were training in an mma style grappling nogi and drilling to defend strikes while grappling, which is 2 different worlds then traditional brazilian jiujitsu in a gi, i had to adapt to not being so explosive and scramblely and rely on more techinque, which for me i got pretty damn good at passing the guard and working my game from side control northsouth, and from bottom the deep half guard in which i was perfecting multiple sweeps or sliding out to turtle too control to clock chokes, a part of thengame i learned from master cyborg himself. but the last couple yrs i bought more traps and a bigger boat, and been having some serious issues with my lower back, and im struggling to find time to train at the set training times as well, so i get a saturday in here and there. point is if u can stick with it man, to accomplish somethin like receiving ur black belt is such a big accomplishment. so stick with if. dont let ur business run u out the gym like i have, now im looking back seeing guys i was teaching are purple belts too. 🤦♂️ not a good feeling to see guysbu been trainin for 5yrs longer then the same belt as u. almost embarassing lol, dont be me. and for u white belts, if u train hard like i did, in 6months u can tap a blue and purple belt if ur in better shape, dont let hoe hogan tell u different. i lived it. no they might come backcanther day and work u over for that but hey “thats jiujistsu” dont take i personal
Just roll with everybody, focus on technique, don’t spaz, don’t rest on the wall, be nice to everyone, do all your rounds and ask questions to higher belts after class. Stay consistent and you’ll get better.
I read a study that said that to improve at a skill you should compete against people 30% worse at that skill than you. It builds your confidence and allows you the room to take risk and improve.
I think it allows you to enter a state where you aren't completely stressed out and allows you to be able to experiment different approaches/angles/concepts and allows you to have a deeper understanding of your skill.
Ive personally found the most growth doing it this way. I'm not sure about percentage but I try to alternate between guys around my skill level and higher belts. It's a nice balance between getting some confidence and being humble.
"Don't believe everything Joe Rogan says on his podcast" - Abraham Lincoln Seriously. If you are a white belt. Dont let this ruin your confidence. Personally I agree it's good to practice your offence on less skilled opponents. But lets say you only roll with higher ranked belts, and you eventually can defend almost everything they try to submit you with (which you will learn to do) , isn't that improving?
Totally, rolling with higher level guys forces you to improve your defense and it kicks ass. However, you're going to have less opportunities to practice your offense on a higher level guy because his defense is way up there already, whereas rolling with someone with less proficiency than yourself, you'll have more opportunities to execute your offensive technique at a live pace.
If you played Runescape, remember how you don't earn attack xp when you hit zero's on a guy? But if he has a lower defense level, you're more likely to deal damage and in turn, make progress toward your next attack level.
What amazed me was for three months I got my ass kicked in the beginning. I trained with everyone. But then i rolled with a marine without any grappling experience who had 100 lbs on me. He was a friend who wanted to spar and it amazed me how easily someone bigger than me that I was able to dominate him. This was after rolling with nothing but purple and brown belts. So it may not seem like you're getting anywhere in the gym but believe me, you are compared to the rest ofthe world
That’s literally my experience as a beginner. Ive been doing jiu jutsu for about a month now consistently 3 times a week. When i enter the gym i get discouraged and my self esteem gets worse because everyone else is better than me. But then i leave the gym and have a roll with my cousin or someone who doesn’t do bjj and i literally tap them in seconds… ive figured that the average joe who has never done bjj has no clue what to do on the ground. But when you enter the gym you enter a whole new world of elite grapplers.
Here in Brazil, we start rolling from the first class, in my 3rd week i've rolled with two blue belts, one purple and twice with a black belt, getting my ass kicked (in a controlled manner) has helped me up my game a lot.
May just be my school here in the US, but my experience has been the same. First day, drop in class and I was rolling. It's been six months and I'm not looking back or regretting it. But yes, ex wrestler, first night rolled with a blue belt, two purple belts, and a brown belt. I learn best while getting my butt kicked, then when I roll with other white belts or new white belts, I see just how much I've grown. Loving the journey...
Sparring with people better than you helps eliminate silly technical errors from your game, as you get immediately punished if you make one. That's an advantage.
I have recently taken this idea to my training. I started Jiu Jitsu in April of last year and the first 6 months I pretty much only rolled with blue belts and I got hurt several different times. After 6 months I started pretty much rolling with other white belts with occasional blue belt rolls and noticed that I was not getting hurt as much and that I was starting to put my game together. After almost a year, I'm at the level to where I feel that any white belt I go up against is going down and now I'm starting to eye blue belts. Long story short I was inspired by what you summarized and it helped me out tremendously. Thanks!
I got stuck straight in with the purple and brown belts (no-gi) because I have wrestling experience and it showed with the control aspect even with little submission arsenal. After 7 months and many taps later I got to blue belt. Now I’m having fairly intense rolls with my black belt coaches (of course they take it a little easier on me), but the scrambles and athleticism is always on my side. So for new guys, wrestling is very important, don’t neglect it
I think its important to roll with higher belts that destroy you so you can work on your defense. You need to find a balance where you train with both of them.
No, not at all brother. That's the best way to start. Now you know what ten years of bjj feels like. You know how untouchable they were to you and how badly you got wrecked. Whenever you think about quitting just remember that the only difference between those instructors and you is a few thousand hours on the mats. Stick to it and it'll be you smashing white belts one day.
RageKaje On his first day of jiu jitsu he would have basically no idea how to do anything. 0 techniques and rolling? thats like throwing a 2 year old in the deep end of a pool
Tom Johnstone I understand what he is trying to say tho. I witnessed and felt what it was like to train with people who did JJ for 10+ years. I thought I was going to go in an wrestle to keep them on the bottom. Man was i wrong. I got swept every 4 seconds, and submitted every 10 seconds. It was very humbling and motivated me to go to every open mat session I can find .
right! im a boxer and my girl is only a green belt and she can almost tap me at will lol. check out my channel! shes a beast going into her first tourney!
Check my channel dummy. She's a green belt under Renzoku Jiu Jitsu. Some systems also allow green for adults instead of stripes on a white belt. do ur research before running ur mouth. My wife is an MMA fighter. lol.
I'm a purple belt and I've always said to work your technique you have to roll with ranks lower than you and then roll with higher ranks to improve defense; but who knows rolling over so many years you're going to come to a point where you catch a higher rank ever so often.
I am 41 yo and I came to Thailand 2 weeks ago to trian for No Gi Jui Jitsu. It was the first time ever I stepped on a paded mat and our coach told us to do some drills. Let me tell you folks - in my recent memory, those were the happiest 90mins of my life. It's been 2 weeks and I am black n blue all over my body because I have no idea what's happening so far.. but I show up everyday and roll :) I have a smile on my face while I'm in pain. Comfort is a slow poison that will swallow your soul. Be relaxed but don't get comfortable.
How does a white belt get good by strangling blue belts? Blue belts at some schools can beat the fuck out of white belts. Have a varying range of opponents. Good, bad, big, small. Do it all. It takes time.
I got my white belt yesterday. I also got my first injury yesterday. Not a major but it was painful. I am feeling better today so I am thankful. I will be back on the mat this afternoon. Wish me luck.
In my experience (at least playing rugby) the older kid develops bad habits because they are bigger, they can just run around or through players as a kid but they don't develop the skill of the game. When they are an adult and everyone is similar size, they cannot rely on their size to win anymore and lose because they are not as skilled as the smaller kid who had to adapt his technique to compete as a kid
I'm new to jiu jitsu too, I only roll with higher ranking belts. Because my schedule lines up with theirs. I get dominated, some will let me get positions but for the most part i get fucked up. Recently I went against another white belt who isn't as good as me and I destroyed him. But he was a kid(16) you gotta roll with both. I definitely need some noobies to roll with because it is really discouraging for your techniques to only get shut down because you're going against people who been doing it for yearsssss.
I agree, but I've rolled in Brazil(where you might go to a class where everyone's a black or brown belt) and depending on the black belt... you can certainly learn. I'd get my guard blown past and they would stop and explain what I did wrong or what I could do to improve. Then we would bump fists and proceed to me trying not to get choked. Even if I was the aggressor and ended up getting reversed... they're was an opportunity for learning. But you're definitely not going to get an opportunity to practice from the back, black belts never give up their backs lol
I think its important to train with people better worse and equal to your skill. Better so you can capitalise on small opportunities, worse somyou practice rechniques and equal to really experience a grind.
all true good points that's what I do rogan get whie blues sharpen the tools for offense but for defense go with higher belts I'm purple so your are very correct
i train at a little hole in the wall croosfit/bjj gym and one thing i like is everyone spars w everyone. so you could be rolling w the instructor and getting slaughtered next round someone you can anihilate to regain some confidence then next could be someone right on your level so you dont know whats going to happen. personally i like that method. gives you the ass kicking needed to stay humble and to start learning the signs of whats coming but also gives you shots to try your stuff and have some room for error
In every martial art it's important to train/spar against all 3 levels. Beginners so you're experienced at dealing with random/unorthodox Attacks & to practice dominating. Equal level so your skills don't drop & if you're equal, you'll push each other & improve you both & experts. You *do* learn most from experts as their experience & mastery of certain techniques/strategies will elevate your own skill.
*if you are looking to compete or if you are 100% healthy. I've been sick for 2 years I could easily choke blues/purples 2 years ago now I struggle with blue belts because I have no cardio. I need to roll slowly for longer amounts of time now days & when should I put a limit on ''my game'' I've got a purple in the Gi but felt like i had to go from white to blue again no Gi especially for 10p which changes so often, I used to truck brown belts 2-3 years ago, now they mostly know the defenses or the set ups. I love eddie bravo & im a soldier for the system & I know it works, but you can always improve. that's why I learn so much from brennan & marcelo also.
If you count stuffing a move someone higher than you is trying to do to you as well as accomplishing at least part of a move you're trying to do to someone else as a victory, the whole process is a lot easier to go through.
So true. I finally feel like I'm getting good, I can submit fellow white belts now after 5 months. before that never and even still I hardly tap people. maybe a 2 or 3 times training 4 to 5 days. we roll with the whole class rotating, mostly higher belts than me and it does suck and feels like I'm wrestling a highly trained fighter vs me who is trying new things all the time.
Malcom Gladwell wrote in Outliers of this exact thing but for hockey. A significant number of pro players were born in the first three months of the school year. Bigger, older, more game time equals more coaching...
Still a white belt and really small and skinny so I've been playing defense my whole jiu-jitsu life. Then a new guy comes along, finally someone my size, I was able to control him the whole time but then I realized my attacks were really sloppy because I usually never have the chance to attack, so while I could hold him in side control indefinitely, he could see me thinking in my head as to how to go on the attack. He was even like "you're thinking about how to finish me right?" while I was lost in thought.
Exact same thing for me. I'm a blue belt and spent almost my entire time as a white belt getting good at defending against bigger, older opponents and had very few opportunities to actually hone much offensive skill and initiative
@@jamiemattinson Do you guys not drill? To me it seems stupid for coaches to expect students to get better just by sparring It should be acombination of drilling and sparring shouldn't it?
I have been going to a high profile MMS gyms but because it's MMA the ji-jitsu there isn't the main focus. That said, there's very few new Ji-jitsu people and I am the newest there despite going there for a year so I still get wrecked yet still want to go.
My gym doesn't hand around belts like karate. The white belts are so good and the blue belts feel like pro fighters. The black and brown belts feel like its impossible to submit them
I'm a white belt at 37 and have never done martial arts before. I roll with higher belts a lot and I see the logic Joe is using but I'm definitely getting better
that's where the friendly roll comes into play where the black belt or just person of higher proficiency needs to realize they can help. the way to do that is letting the less proficient people live in that danger zone struggling to get out while they work their escape and as a higher proficiency person some times u have to realize no one is getting better if I tap him out and they gotta let the worse guy get his escape with moderate resister in real grappling sessions. that way you both get better.
I have only done 60 classes in BJJ, with the new beginners I practice my guard, escapes and sometimes a Submission. With the women I try my best to not use my strength. With the higher belts/ranks I focus mainly on defending usually triangle, armbar defense any chokes. I roll as hard as they roll.
the best way ive found to get better is actually to practice with a very technical superior grappling idealling the instructor and you both grapple at 30% speed/power. thats how you practice correct techniques and get into those bad positions then get out. all the random positions..and the instructor can teach you what to do if your struggling. Also they only let you succed in your execution if your doing it properly if you do it sloppy or incorretly period then they will counter it showing you you must use correct technique or you learn the consequences then learn what to do once you get countered (by a sweep submission ect) and these memories of what happens when u fail stick in your mind. and when you do it correctly you are programming your self for proper technique. no building bad habits from spazzing out and being sloppy. also I must add this way you avoid injury and get less sore so you can continue to train more often. this concept came from renzo gracie my instructor trains under him. once a week roll 90% to condition yourself and prove the techniques at full speed with full resistance.
I agree with joe rogan. I'm a white belt. Been training for 11 months. I learn more by rolling with other white belts that aren't quiet as good as me. Now, that doesn't mean that I don't learn anything if I roll with higher belts. Higher belts just smash me and I most of the time I don't have the time to think. Rolling with new white belts, I can do the techniques, and gives me confidence in my abilities and skills and as well as techniques.
My first roll is always with someone worse. It gives me a chance to kind of flow and warm up (and I'm also not crushing the person) and get my offense going. Then I go roll with someone better to work on defense and really get my practice in. Finally, I go with someone equal to grind it out and utilize everything I have in my arsenal. It might not be the absolute best way to train but it's worked for me. Usually, because I've warmed up that way, my last roll is an absolute war...maybe one submission for either of us (often I'm the one that gets it because I have crazy ex-swimmer endurance).
Your comment is very interesting. I had a long sparring session yesterday and on my way home I was thinking and reflecting upon this. I think your approach to start with someone who is not as good as you is a wonderful idea, yesterday I did the opposite really and it took a great while before I was in the flow. In regards to the late part of your comments that is exactly what I do too, me and a partner of equal skill use to end the training with one 5 minute roll in the end, and then we reflect upon what we did wrongly and show eachother how we were able to submit each other / escape a submission. This is really awarding. Thanks for great advice, I'll be taking that. I hope you are still going strong with the BJJ and also that you have a merry christmas. // Regards from Sweden.
I suppose everyone has their own opinion and philosophy that's the beauty in martial arts. I agree and disagree. I think training with higher and lower level can ultimately help. Higher belt opponents help you realize mistakes you make when you get caught in something and lower belts help give you that muscle memory.
+Daran Tanaka I agree it depends on the higher belt, you do something wrong they show you what you and when they capitalize on something you ask them how and how to defend it. You will learn that way.
I have shoulder problems, left one dislocated several times before I decided to get key hole surgery and now it feels restricted but strong. Recently my right shoulder dislocated for the first time. Bad genetics or something I guess. Do you think I could train in bjj with these problems or do you think it will be a major hindrance and that It will just keep dislocating? Anyone with bjj who could reply would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
When it's healed you can try to do things at a pace that works for you. If it's really sensitive you could ask your training partner to avoid pressure to your shoulder for example. If you can lie on your back and extend your hips then turn over onto your shoulder that's a good start. It's a frequently used warm up. The was joe describes it is a bit hyperbolic, i thought you'd get choked like to the point of passing out, but tap is respected. THere's a lot of curriculum that doesn't involve arm/shoulder locks. And even with those students are trained in a good gym to be careful. Hard to advise without knowing more. You could ask your doctor I suppose.
Kenny Powers that surprises me. I accept you may have had positional control but surprised they got subbed by you. I find new BJJ wrestlers easy to submit esp guillotines and triangles.
Getting strangled all the time by higher belts definitely improves your defense. Strangling lower belts improves your offense but can also make your technique sloppy - you get away with it on lower belts.
True, one aspect that gets forgotten is it is good to occasionally practice against untrained and people who don't do martial arts because those people can be more wild and don't do the same things as martial artists/more unpredictable.
I agree with him in the sense that you definitely do that in order to test out and sharpen techniques. I am a brown belt and I do that, its not malicious or mean at all. Often they will ask me what it was and I will gladly show them so they become gradually more aware of it, along with how to defend against it.
I always laugh when I get tapped by a sub I've never seen before lol. That's good to do man. By showing them and allowing them to become aware of it, you're both growing. :)
joe is right and wrong abt not ever gonna be good if u only spar w black and brown belts as a white belt. if you tough that shit out and u soar w those belts every time you train, fuck man you’re gonna get good and you’re gonna get good quick. but also having someone your same skill level helps a lot too. gotta have the best of both worlds for max results
There's a lot of truth to this. In Malcolm Gladwell's book Outliers ch.1 and 2, he stresses how important your date of birth you have helps your initial success in sports. So using his analogy of white belts; if they are pooled with people at a higher level it makes it tough to improve. as I was writing this he referred to gladwell. Excellent read. I think the counter to this though is learning then by how you were beat. instead of seeing it as a failure, try and remember what the other person did and how it worked.
at AOJ they partner you up with people sometimes not as good as you, better and equal. also they focus on pairing you up with guys in different sizes. if I can stay alive with a guy bigger and better then me. I can tap a guy my size or at least survive whatever he tries on me.
i think a lot of people are misinterpreting joe. He's just saying that there are 'perfect sparring partners out there' to EXPAND (IT shouldn't be improve) your technique similarly how professional boxers will spar with amatuers or low level professionals without head gear.
This is actually 100% accurate... Royler and Rickson have been saying this forever. You aren’t going to get something you’re trying to develop to work on someone of your level or higher.
I disagree Joe here's why, I'm a 1 stripe blue belt out of Mile High Grace Jiu Jitsu. I go against purple brown and black belts every class, I get beat, trashed at times but I've also improved alot from not being on a defensive roll and starting to do more offensive moves. Another way I know is because my instructors turns up the heat and they tell me they have to do that based on my improvement. That being said last reason the same rank and lower rank belts guys I go up against now I beat and trashed or roll alot better with then when I first started and I've been here for 2 years now. You don't get better at beating lesser you get better beating better
I train at Gracie Barra (westside) in Albuquerque, Nm and Rafael Freitas heads most of the classes there. One day he was like "hey david you roll with me today.." Meanwhile, my little two stripe white belt self got manhandled and choked out every time. Then at the end of the class he said "you have to be choked out in order to choke others." In the moment I was mad, I mean jeez getting choked out in less then 15 seconds every time in front of your peers can be disheartening. But in the end, it has helped me.
I was rolling with higher belts exclusively and my progress slowed a lot... and a brown told me... bro, you need to choke the shit out of some people... huge gains! chocking people is like arm day for meatheads, it's super important for confidence.
