Just for people to bear in mind: a Judo brown belt is not the equivalent of a BJJ brown belt. In BJJ the black belt is the "last", whereas in Judo it is, in a sense, the first. 1st Dan (degree) is the initial rank of a "fully fledged" judoka.
@@burghleyli2693 Yeah but that's meant more like in a poetic way. After 8-10 years it's not really a "beginning", but it makes you consider things in a life-long perspective. In Judo most people obtain their 1st degree bb after 3-5 years, which doesn't equate to "mastery" as with the BJJ bb, just to "now I'm a person you can safely spar with and gain something out of it".
The thing with Judo is that throws are meant to put somebody on the ground considering it as a hard surface. There is a ton of difference between landing on concrete and on a mat. That's why a high school wrestler may hit you with a double leg in the street and more often that not you are DONE. The softness of the mat helps recover and react quicker. Still I believe cross training is probably the best option if you have the time and money
You’re not gonna shoot on a Muaythai practitioner the way you doing wrestling and jiu-jitsu. You have to be more pragmatic and understand that ending up in a clinch, where a kickboxer can smash your face with knees is not a good place. I wrestled for a while, but my main studies now are kickboxing and jiu-jitsu. I feel well rounded.
@@irishsavage8715 I meant my comment in a street fight situation, considering you are never going to fight (hopefully) a trained muay thai practitioner on the street. If you do, maybe you should reconsider the whole situation lol
That is not what it is really. Judo throws are meant for the thrower to gently guide you to the floor so that you won't get hurt - to avoid injuries. The goal is to hit the opponents back on the mat without head bang and without them just dropping, that's why you hold the control until the end and don't fall on your opponent if it's a really clean throw. And the throws have quite good follow ups to wrestling for pin after the throw if you keep the control, there's solid progessions and things you have to defend against. In fact you are penalized harshly for poorly executed or dangerous throws and dangerous throws have been removed from competitive judo. Which goes to emphasize the point that you aren't learning street fighting skills. To extend that, judo is a sport. And furthermore if you talk to a decent self-defence trainer, your goal is not to use judo but your legs - to run if your mouth wasn't enough to defuse the situation. It's just not that good of a take to start arguing judo for street fight, gives people wrong ideas about judo and alarming situations.
Cross training can be the best depending on your goals ofc. Focusing on one sport if you are competing is probably the thing to do as there is only so much time. If you are doing mma or just want to otherwise be well rounded for fun and what not then cross training is great.
@@Yupppia judoka can choose to keep control or not, if they let go mid air mat or not it’s gonna hurt. On top of that, if someone doesn’t know breakfall they will still hit their head or get whiplash
bulshidojutsus always do that. they always set up the spar to their advantage then claim bjj is superior. i have zero respect for bjj. it was founded upon LIES and DECEPTION. no respect for that kind of "art".
In my judo school we do newaza and nage waza so BJJ guys always have a hard time when they visit us, but judo is not the same everywhere. Some schools focus more on standing techniques a d other on ground techniques. Anyway, interesting video and nice sparring
Hayashi dojo in El Paso has been teaching kosen since 1955 their ne waza light up BJJ guys on the mat all the time.Steve Scott's judo club and Gokor's school are also every bit as good on the mat as any BJJ school.
There's so much cross training at this point that these matchups mostly come down to the individual. For me, a five set ne waza practice could include rolling with a Judo Olympian, a D-1 wrestler, a BJJ World Champion, a Sambo Master of Sport, and a random Judo white belt who knows way more ground techniques than their belt would suggest. You just never know.
i trained bjj and judo in a swiss judo school. Our bjj trainer was a brasilian 2nd degree backbelt and absolute master of his craft winning the london open in both -70kg and the absolut division aswell as other famous championships. Claudio Rocha if you wanna look him up. Our judo coach was a swiss judo guy ranked 4. dan or something. Before Claudio came to the gym as a bjj coach, the judo guy did train newaza and choosen and also went to local swiss championships, winning some of them. Nonetheless he was not nearly as experienced in ground fighting than the bjj guy. Then in one bjj session the judo guy came by and had a roll with us all. Overall very gentle, easygoing and cool. He tossed the bjj guys like toys but never hurting them, because he controlled the fall, further no bjj guy could ever take him down. 0 chance. He just smiled all the attacks off. Then at the end of the session he and claudio went for it. This was one of the most technical, beautiful yet effective displays of judo i ever witnessed. And his opponent was by no means a newcomer as i just mentioned. Claudio went in for a hip throw kind of attack, but the judo guy perfeclty anticipated it and duck under for a 'kata guruma' or firemans throw as the wrestlers call it. Damm, that was a thing of beauty! Then he rolled claudio over his shoulder, rolled with him and caught in a 'americana from side controll'. You clearly saw the brasilian fighting with his ego and he didnt let himself tap that fast. I could rarely believe what im witnessing because back then i never say anybody even coming close to tapping Claudio. Even at open mats other blackbelts repidedly got chocked pretty fast by him. But this swiss sturdy little judo guy hold on to that shoulder crank for so long, it was a pain to watch. And Claudio finally had to submitt to it. And yes, Claudio wanted a other round after it, where he tapped the judo guy witha guilotine as a revenge. But we all were kinda schocked, since this was next level. The anticiption, the counter setup, the counter, to roll into, the grap, the submission. All was just perfect! Thats when i realised one simple thing: its not about the art, but the artist. Every art can work, if you pratice it well enough and often enough!
That knee slide to mount is a very small but important detail. I see all the time in UFC, guys will try to leap their leg over to get the mount and end up in butterfly guard instead. Very good technical stuff in this roll from all Judo, Wrestling, and BJJ
@@rns7426 Haha Kazumi is just Tyler trolling ;) I think for Uki Waza you would go more straight down between Uke's legs, not on the outside. Sort of like Sumi Gaeshi but without the leg to kick them over which makes it somewhat likely that they faceplant if they are not aware of what is happening.
@@bjarneschmalbach1524 lots of variations for uki waza. I would definitely call it that. Whether it is a down the middle or off to the side it still looks the same. BJJ has a on the butt collar drag version of it. Forget what they like to call it. When I saw it In BJJ class it was still an uki waza. Of course my coach looks at me like I’m crazy when I tell them the Japanese names for it. The links I dropped I’d call both uki waza. Here’s an example of the judo version. ru-vid.comUjv9BD0oZzs?si=GLwNG1CILRhyu6Wm A standing BJJ version: ru-vid.comiSaruR9XfiM?si=_n8osXcujdxwxDdT
Did judo the entire 1980ies and the onset of the 1990ies. Thanks to the concept of 'Olypic Judo' we Judoka lost tons of techniques. Rules from outside were forced upon us like no standing leg grabs. No chockes under green belts. Ones the fight goes to the ground, like in boxing, they stand you back up. Some friends of mine who are in BJJ ask me and eachother wether or not BJJ should become an Olympic discipline. DO NOT DO IT! Those Olympic commities will castrate your martial art into a sport fit for old ladies. My martial arts friends in BJJ, from a Judoka who witnessed the downfall of functional Judo, like taught to the Japanese army in the 1930ies. With on the ground training TO FINISH THE JOB! Horrible time in hystory, but Judo was great and inspirational by being EFFECTIVE and EFFICIENT. These days, man, it is form, kata and the 6 techniques favored by the Olympic commity.
My judo club does tons of newaza as well as throws it's a 2.5 to 3 hr class 2 days a week but we also have bjj classes 3 days a week. I also learned the basic judo double leg I prefer this particular double leg to th wrestling one because you dont have to necessarily follow them to the ground and ot uses way more off balance and leverage to do I also like it because my long arms can reep the legs up easy while my head pushes them over I usually place my head on the upper most part of the chest directly on between the 2 collar bones creating more leverage and less likely to be cought in a head lock or punched that high up
We never lost any techniques. Judo still teaches everything from Japanese Ju Jutsu, it's legacy. We just don't in competitions, as joint lock and neck wrenching kills your Uki
@@MichaelEhlineDepends highley on the gym. Due to the olympic rules, gyms will and do focus on the olympic rule set more. If your train at a gym that does a lot of classic judo cool, but that’s not most gyms.
@@ethanchaney1139 are you speaking from personal experience. I have trained at multiple dojos and BJJ academies and I find that Judo senseis are pretty uniform, unlike most BJJ academies. The Japanese tradition and respect militate in favor of uniformity
I've practiced both and I love BJJ. However, to be honest, I find it ridiculous that a BJJ practitioner would just sit down at the beginning of a fight. I consider this tactic childish and believe it's only applicable because the opponent can't kick you.
While I agree with you, others will say “you’re there to train bjj, not stand and grip fight for 6mins”. Both are true. Never neglect training take downs but repetition is of the most importance. Positional sparring, starting from open guard, on the knees, and any other position is great practice to elevate specific areas of your game. I would avoid pulling guard, even if I am a guard player, being on top is never a bad thing.
I completely agree. However Wrestling is far superior... roll with a BB that was at least collegiate level, without your PJ's, that Gonna be a rude awakening. It trumps Judo It won't even be close. Even Travis Stevens would have no chance. Once you take the jacket off most of the throws are a dumbed down less sophisticated version of greco roman wrestling but with an exposed posture. Add the legs from freestyle, high crotch, single or double leg, and ankle picks and its all she wrote. Wrestling is THE stand up grappling art to end them all. Most No Gi schools wrestle at least half the time and that's why they are leading the way through innovation like Gordan is. Danaher almost never talks about Judo anymore, we all know why.
judo throws if mastered properly are probably the best, because you can do them without exposing vital areas like the neck or head to various strikes or chokes but they are so hard, 1 throw might take you 2 years to be just good at.
Wonderful video! Truly "scientific" studies of martial arts are impossible because of variables like differences in strength and skill levels of opponents. But this is an excellent comparison with great narration.
its not fair , a normal bjj black belt equals a judo 3th dan black belt.. plus, this bjj guy is a world class he probably shall face an judo athlete who competes national championship...
In judo rules, you would have lost in the first minuite(if you get thrown on your back you lose.) You have amazing groundwork, i learnd a lot. Thank you🙏
I believe in never limiting myself. I love Wrestling, Judo, Ju Jitsu, Muay Thai, Karate, Hapkido, and so on. I implement Judo and Ju Jitsu and Wrestling when it comes to grappling.
Very Interesting video….. the scramble after throw really is sorted by training transition from Tachi Waza(Standing) to Newaza(Ground Work) which is sometimes not always trained as regularly as Judo contest it’s all about the IPPON! that said a good brown belt and above with transition game would be very different contest in my opinion
It was different in Judo pre-2000. I won 75% of my matches on the ground, mostly by submissions. Back then, folks didn't care about a clean throw as much as most of the time you just wanted to get a dominant position for a pin or submission.
Judo vs BJJ reminds me of legendary fight between Helio Gracie vs Masahiko Kimura. "Hélio did not surrender, and Kimura rotated the arm until it broke. As Gracie still refused to give up, Masahiko twisted the arm further and broke it again. Finally, when the judoka was about to twist it a third time, Gracie's corner threw the towel, and Kimura was declared winner."
Judo is amazing. I think as a lifetime pursuit is it absolutely equal to BJJ. That said, on the ground (and especially earlier in your training) BJJ definitely has the advantage. For the record I’m a judo brown (sankyu) and 4 stripe white belt (hopefully soon a blue belt!) in BJJ.
I used to train with judo black belts when i was a blue belt and destroyed most of them. If a Judo guy learns Jiu Jitsu thats what makes them tough to beat the JJ not the Judo.
@@badtrekee4348 As I said, BJJ has the advantage. This is because it's easier to end a fight with newaza (groundfighting) than with tachiwaza (takedowns and throws). BJJ guys are almost always better on the ground, so they tend to win over judoka in submission based combat. BUT high level judoka have beaten high level BJJ guys several times back when there was more style v style matchups. They call the submission a Kimura because Kimura, a judoka, used it to beat Helio. Another example is Yoshida, a judoka, beating Royce. And in a street fight a good throw or slam can end a fight. So yes, BJJ tends to beat Judo. But don't underestimate it! Everyone Cross trains nowadays, but it's not BJJ that makes judo great. Judo is amazing all on its own. And we wouldn't have BJJ without it.
@@vibovitold Constrained compared to what? Sure it has more rules today than when it was created. But more rules than other grappling sports? I wouldn't say that. Just different.
Tyler, you should roll with one of the miyao brothers. As a Jiu-Jitsu practitioner and fan of both I'd love to see you roll with either of the brothers. I'm sure they'd love the collab ❤❤
BJJ = BASICALLY JUST JUDO Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu looks just like Judo, because it is Basically Just Judo. When Mitsuyo Maeda, a.k.a. “Conde Koma”, began teaching Carlos Gracie in Belem do Para, Brazil in 1917, he was teaching Jigoro Kano’s Jiu-Jitsu direct from the Kodokan in Japan. The name “Judo” was not popularized until 1925. Mitsuyo Maeda was a Kodokan Judo instructor whose specialty was ground fighting (newaza). This type of ground-only fighting is often referred to as Kosen Judo, or High School Judo, because it was popularized in Japanese High Schools as a form of interscholastic wrestling. Kosen Judo rules allowed direct transition to newaza, enabling scenarios where one less skilled competitor could drag the other down to the ground (a tactic now known as “pulling-guard” in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu). There is absolutely no question that the Gracie family demonstrated great skill and marketing acumen by promoting “Gracie Jiu-Jitsu” or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to the masses. Helio Gracie’s loss to Kodokan Judoka Masahiko Kimura was advertised as a “moral victory”. More importantly, the Gracies sponsored the original Ultimate Fighting Championships when the world was begging for a professional combat sport with more depth than Boxing and more realism than the WWF. However, there is now a generation of Jiu-Jitsu students who only know half the story. Worse yet, they are often paying enormous prices for the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu name only to learn a subset of Jigoro Kano’s original Jiu-Jitsu techniques and teaching methods.
I do struggle to see why folks differentiate judo and wrestling as if they are 2 separate things. Modern judo due to the rule set is certainly restrictive. However, the judo of 15+ years ago was effectively just wrestling in a gi, leg grabs, pick-ups all allowed. I think this point needs to be made more clear.
I did Judo in the 80s and 90s. Stopped for university and went back around 2005 for fitness. It was 100% a different sport. I was late 30s and could absolutely destroy younger kids on the ground -- if the silly rules weren't in effect. I left because the sport had gotten too far away from its roots to the point it wasn't practical. Why can't you continue on the ground? Because it doesn't look good in the Olympics is a stupid answer. Today, I don't mind people saying Judo is different than wresting. Most competitors are young and learned post 2000, so as a sport 90% of Judoka you see today cannot wrestle or face a BJJ guy.
That's certainly how it looks like "from the outside", but Judo has a lot of stuff that doesn't exist in wrestling. The way you are taught to move is different. The way you deal with things is different. The time to master judo technicalities is much longer than wrestling (or BJJ, aka Judo Ne Waza, for that matter), because the movements are originally based on subtle imbalance and sensing, not pure muscle leverage like wrestling. That said, sports Judo has done a lot to destroy all the original finesse
It depends on what the rules are. This is apples to oranges. In a Judo tournament, the Judo guy would win because the match would be over with the throw. In a BJJ tournament, the BJJ guy would win because the Judo throw would not count. That being said, all black belts (in any discipline) are not equal. A Judo brown belt from Gokor Chivichyan's school, would eat your lunch. They train in everything.
Imagine if this had not been 'sport' in a fully matted dojo. Would the throw @00:55 had a different outcome if it had been onto concrete or tarmac? @04:55 or @06:30 from standing onto concrete... you judge how this would have changed how this would have likely progressed....
@@ninjaatori 100% Alex also rolled through to be nice to Tyler. In reality, Tyler's counter was too weak to safely get top position. But it was a nice attempt
In the good old days of Judo, there were only white belt for the 5 Kyu 級 and black belt for the 5 Dan 段 in Judo. Later, in 1913, the brown belt was introduced to experienced Kyu players in 3 to 1 kyu, and then color belts were invented by the British Judo Association in 1926 and later half-color belts for other Kyu were invented by the French. Kano awarded his best student Saigo Shiro 西鄉 after Saigo passed away. Evebtually dan expanded and white-red belt for kodansha when 6 to 10 dan were introduced. In Sumo during training, only senior rikishi in the top two divisions (the sekitori) are allowed to wear white mawashi. In Shuaijiao, yellow jacket and belt could only be worn when awarded by the Emperors. Chang Dong Sheng introduced a belt system in Taiwan and later the US. It didn't go far. In last 40 or so years old coaches who had won championship before started to wear yellow belt. So if you are a Judo or BJJ guy who go to a Sumo beya or Shuaijiao gym, do not think a white belt or yellow belt is easy target.😂
Interesting example. I was doing judo for about 4 years when I decided to check out a Bjj club, of course the trainer put me against some purple belt with a few white stripes on them. He was a bit taller then me, probably the same weight. It was a great ne waza but he didnt manage to choke me out nor the get me in a hold. Learn some awesome moves on that class. The guy spanked my ass in the end of ne waza so i didnt go there anymore. Anyways!! I saw that there is a huge strength and grip gap between us. I would be really happy to see you doing a randori with someone who is more dynamic, has a better grip and is a bit more relaxed. The wrist bar was nice tho.
standing: if you have clothes , judo is the best by far judo > wrestling > bjj if you have no clothes wrestling > judo > bjj (bjj have no spesific takedowns they use classic wrestling ones) if you are on the ground bjj > judo > wrestling (they have no finishing just pinning opponent's back)
This is a obviously definitive, end all discussion on judo vs jujitsu. Thank you for this video and for ending the great "Judo/ jujitsu" war. We are saved 🥹
On a hard surface most judo throws will result in injury for the opponent. A BJJ player can be great on the ground, but after getting slammed those skills are not going to be very useful. Plus a skilled judoka almost always has a final say whether to follow to the ground or not.
Yes man a skilled judoka slams a BJJ player to peaces on the hard concrete , but if the BJJ guy survive the trow and the judoka have to do ground work then BJJ will win. But we will never see that kind of videos only training videos where there are tatami (matts)
That doesn’t throw was NOT a sacrifice throw. You may have said that because you felt embarrassed and made it bigger than what it was. It is upon seoi nage, a forward throwing technique. He used a version where you drop to your knees. The call it drop seo
The main problem in these videos is that most of BJJ guys are probably in a good competitive level, and call Judokas from the USA... It would be interesting to the this with european or asian judokas, or top USA judokas... I'm not a hater but, even Junior brown belts in Judo (With real competitive training) will probably take you down in style...
First of all, I would like to start saying that I love your channel 🤟, Secondly, for self defense purposes, do you recommend me gi or no gi bjj? Thank you :)
Both are good. Gi is probably better because you will wear clothes in the real world, even if it’s just pulling a shirt. Just be aware of the techniques that won’t work for self defense, like pulling guard.
Hmm. So I’m a single strip white belt in Bjj. And a white belt inn judo. During Bjj class yesterday, rolling, i wanted to hit a white belt throw O goshi or dehashi hari. But the Bjj stance is so far away o wasn’t able to hit them let alone attempt them. So i wanted to see the application… This video confirmed the problem i saw. A “simple” sweep isn’t applicable unless they’re standing every erect. Good video.
In classic Judo, that Uchimata countered by Yoko Otoshi is an ippon for the counter but not in IJF Judo. Donbai Kuwabata have a good Newaza and Nagewaza. Maybe try collaborate with him. Gotta watch it.
Smothering like that when you were already dominating the wresting end of things, sort of a dick move like you admitted. Quick question: unless one's goal is to actually submit and tie up an intruder or something, why would the judoka willingly go into bjj rolling and wrestling vs a bjj/wrestler? Wouldn't they just stand up, let you stand up and proceed to throw you over and over again? And at that point, what stops the bjj guy from simply walking away?
So the answer of the initial question of the video is simple: none is better or both are better. The Judo brown was clearly better in the stand up game even though his opponent is much more advanced. The BJJ black belt was dominating on the ground as he should against a non-black belt grappler. Video was fun to watch! Really really cool
It doesnt. Would be scored Ippon for white by every single ref. People regulary roll through when doing throws, especially with uchi mata. The moment you land on your back you are done for. Doesnt matter if you end up in a better position after that.
It’s only aikido & Bjj nerds butthurt that Judo has whooped their art on a regular basis for decades on end. They have to go & pick midgets to try to get wins
Offhand, where I respect both systems --Judo seems more well-rounded than BJJ. And kinda lost why BJJ is referred to as "Jiu-jitsu," when traditional Jiu-jitsu is a complete fighting system using strikes/kicks, throws, joint locks, and submission techniques and BJJ doesn't.
I am only a blue belt so I'm not sure if I'm incorrect, but isn't the thing you're calling an Ezekiel choke a paper cutter choke? I could be wrong and feel free to school me on my ignorance if that's the case.
I'm confused. He can use Judo and jujitsu while you can only use jujitsu while only on the ground with no wrestling technique to get him there. Right or wrong?
Double leg is a part of judo. Find some old timers in a club and ask to learn the judo they were taught. You would be shocked if you are lucky enough to find someone willing to share what they were taught.
Wrist locks and smothering from a black belt is are complements. They aren't doing that unless you are giving them at least some trouble. Or maybe they just want to fuck with you.
Judo is from Ju jitsu, but for what You speak of Judo is THE THING. The ju-jitsu You reffer is derived from Judo, and is BJJ, not Ju-jitsu. And just to answer generaly: Judo all day every day.
Jiu-Jitsu really works than Judo...when no strike rules with gi I saw many bjj practitioners dominated by Judoka in uni The biggest difference was physical issues, bjjs were really thin and easy to be koed
Man I've done bjj since I was 13 and judo off and on if we as a jiu-jitsu collective where to bring a judo program's into most bjj schools it would re-merge the art making it complete again ,honestly we would be unstoppable. I see a bjj black belt struggling to take down and I see a judo brown or purple belt struggling on the ground.
@@pedromoreira393Blame UFC and the rule changes they institutionalized starting in year 2000. That was when BJJ started to abandon it's Judo roots. Those UFC rules starting back then were made to create environments more favorable to Striking Martial Artists and Wrestlers. Strikes by someone from the bottom of the guard, weight classes, more restrictive time limits, etc. It turned MMA into overglorified kickboxing with wrestling because Americans only enjoy boxing and wrestling and combat sports that operate under similar rules.
@@joeruiz4010 yeah that's true, americans destroy everything they touch, now we have a new hype arround sambo, russians, dagestanis etc, it's all about the money.
At 2:50 you just helped/assisted him to get the ippon (full point score for a win). There is such a thing as trying to throw and falling on your back (on purpose or accident) giving your opponent the point.
@@TylerSpangler more like japanese terms, also their are guys in judo with really good groundgame and can hold their own and even sub bjj black belts but most of them are japan. judo groudwork standards have fallen since the late 80s.
@@user-fb4zo8wd5n Judo groundwork is a bit different, because in Judo the ref will get you both back on your feet unless something happens very quickly. so their window of opportunity is very narrow. it's for that reason that Kosen Judo highlights are a pleasure to watch, because when they submit the guy, it's blazingly fast, like boom to the ground we go, and an armbar (or whatever) 2 seconds later. in bjj you get to work towards the submission, and you can't lie down on your belly trying to wait it out : ) this difference changes the game very much.
I feel like despite the fact judo uses a Gi and sort of has submissions, that wrestling ends up working out better, at least folkstyle wrestling, since olympic styles just like judo tried to cut down on the ground game because apparently they think so low of their spectators that the concept of actual grappling is out of their reach, or boring or something. Folkstyle and collegiate wrestling offers alot of ground game, and while there are holes in it, it still good enough with the takedowns to land good wrestlers in good position more often than not, and they have the ability to wrestle up and control things fairly well. Bjj allows anything that is in either judo or any style of wrestling pretty much, but in general, it lacks in stand up grappling, and we all know it. It's not neccesarily a hole in bjj, but it's the thing more bjj guys lack the most. Tyler's gotbsome decent wrestling, but it cant compare to the best collegiate guys
There is two rulesets used in Kodokan Judo besides Olympic rules in Japan they also use Nanatei rule set which is ground heavy- ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-z90oSp6dQ0M.html
These were all Judo submissions, surprised he was so bad on ground. I was aware most of these submissions when I was practicing judo at young age, and I was only orange belt. Maybe the US dojos a bit different from the European ones.
Great fun and maybe Judoka has only done sport Judo as his choice of techniques was limited , great for Judoka to do ground game as a learning or find a traditional Judo club to upskill
