Joseph Smith's Redefinition of God 

I love this channel! Hamer does an amazing job. It’s rare to find unbiased views but we get that here

@elcucaracho what does the rainbow have to do with how he, or the organization teaches? I think they do a great job. I can’t handle churches any longer because of how most act, and how they allow themselves to be portrayed as to any and everyone, especially people that are trying to find their way to God, but all they can find are people who are beyond help. Peace

There is no unbiased opinion. It’s an oxymoron.

lol really? Hitler alsow was "fascinating guy"? are you crazy or reatrded?! Smith waslier nad con men!

Yeah I hear you I love these lectures but I'm floored to find out these guys are part of the Mormon church.. How can this guy who KNOWS what the Bible really is ever believe in the book of Mormon of all things?

@@4everseekingwisdom690 Im not sure you have read the book of Mormon. Im pretty sure if you did you would not find anything unbiblical. Read it and see. Now I am not saying you can't or shouldn't critique it, be skeptical etc but most if not all theological scriptures in it are also in the bible. Mormonism is a lot bigger than most suppose. But just saying, find a theological concept in the book of mormon that you disagree with and post it. Not historical, not academic but theological. The BOM is very restoration NT Christian like. I get you can academically argue with it (you can also do that with other scripture) but the beliefs in it regarding The Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost are pretty spot on. Check it out.

Here is the list: www.centreplace.ca/lectures

😂

Why would a non fraudulent god choose a convicted con man to give his message? 🤔

​@@of9490 but then noone knows everything, so has some ignorance. I've never belonged to a a church, nor shall I, but I worked as a scientist for a while (biology), and in discussing things with fellow scientists, it seemed to me that they (and I) had tremendous amounts of faith in other scientists, both within and (especially) outside our spheres of expertise

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It's because he's a bright informed and open-minded person that he is in a church. There are two kinds of pastors, theologians and charlatans. My grandfather had a Doctorate in Divinity. My grandparents basically raised me and they taught me to always ask questions, especially of leaders. Judge them by their fruits. God wouldn't have given the command to master the earth if Even that wasn't a matter of spiritual learning.

If you watched many you are missing the historical wisdom of the ages being brought to the forefront. Where else would the wisdom be manifested?

Enjoyed the classic song you posted. Is your opinion that religion is anachronistic (something I think, the ecclesiastical battling is preposterous, not sure if you would know the word ecumenical but that ideas is all but lost) ...or that the speaker has not embraced Islam? I wasn't even clear if the speaker is LDS or just an expert.

@@jenniferfar I simply don't see religion as something necessary for all human beings. Some people might need it psychologically, and this phenomenon might have been more widespread in the past.

Mormonism is so obviously the most ridiculous, made-up religion except maybe for Scientology. So maybe some of L. Ron Hubard's sci fi will do. They made a film with John Travolta involving some sort of Klingon-like beings in space ships. {:-:-:}

To me it bears more or a resemblance to this roman belief in human deification. The ancients believed that men could become gods through great deeds. Christianity inverted this, by saying god had become a man out of love. It's regression

There are many science fiction depictions of JS' theory, although not exactly the same as what he described. If you watch the Babylon 5 series, there's an ancient species of "ascended beings" who are basically gods and the human race itself would "ascend" in the future. In the reboot of Battlestar Galactica (which is directly inspired by Mormonism) there is a similar idea of humans becoming something like gods. Also, when you think about it, that's also what happens to light side Jedi when they die. More recently, The Expanse has something similar and even has a Mormon starship (that the Mormons never got to use because someone stole it).

@LucasGMdeAraujo Yes. Glen A. Larson (creator of BG) was a longstanding member of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints, the main Mormon congregation. Larson inserted many references to the more controversial elements of Utah Mormon theology developed by Joseph Smith and Brigham Young before they became mainstream knowledge (and became heavily ridiculed). Examples of the references are: 1. Kobol, the ancestral home of humanity, is a reference to Kolob, the star where God dwells according to Joseph Smith. 2. Adama the savior is a reference to the Adam God Doctrine promulgated by Brigham Young. 3. The Twelve Colonies and their exodus is a reference to the exodus of the Lost Tribes of Israel from the Holy Land to the Americas in the Book of Mormon. Basically the entire plot of the original Battlestar Galactica series was based on the Book of Mormon. 4. Similarly, the Cylon genocide of the Twelve Colonies is a reference to the Book of Mormon's massacre of the Nephites by the Lamanites. It should be noted that Larson probably had no special reasons to include all these references. He just happened to be a Mormon and chose to include stories from his faith in his work, much the same way lots of Bible references end up in modern fiction.

@elcucaracho Correct. "The Lods of Kobol" in Battlestar Galactica derive from the fictitious planet Kolob given by Joseph Smith in his spurious "translation" derived from an Egyptian funereal scroll that he named The Book of Abraham. When hieroglyphics were subsequently translated, following the discovery of the Rosetta Stone, the Book of Abraham was shown to be an out an out fantasy/hoax, therefore according closely in nature to all his other productions.

Many minority Mormon churches (such as the one he belongs to) say Joseph Smith is a « fallen prophet » and don’t accept everything he says but instead accept the Book of Mormon, but you don’t know it apparently

The Trump election clearly shows that the US is devolving into a banana Republic, so I would second your comment.

That can be said for most religions. Even the Jewish texts (that the Old Testament is copied from) are copied from the old Egyptian religion. Or one might say that Judaism is fan fiction of the Pharaoh's religion, and Christianity (and Islam) is fan fiction of Judaism, and Mormonism is fan fiction of Christianity.

@@HeadakusMaximus 👍 It's All SPECULATIVE ... Belief = Speculation, Theory

@@tctc440 But I want facts and proof! Like Mulder says: "I want to believe." But the empiricist inside says no. :(

@@HeadakusMaximus That's probably True for most of us. The only thing that Really Matters if you want to BELIEVE & make that become KNOWLEDGE is Love the Lord thyself God with All that Heart, Soul, Mind & Might . That doesn't Require any Religion ... And God will Reveal the TRUTH of Anything to You. Jesus Teachings are Very Helpful. Whether the Eorld wants to Admit it or not; His Teachings Changed the World ... Good Luck only you can make it Happen. No one else can convince you. Only you ...

It's sad that ye have so little faith in the intelligence of the LDS people. We are not sheep nor are we dumb we are taught to study our religion throughly, to ask questions and practice faith. I do not believe any religion to be perfect but I have a testimony of the LDS gospel and believe it to be the most true and perfect of our choices.

Evolution isn't a belief - it is a scientific theory (i.e., the best explanation of all the available evidence relating to the domain within which it occurs). A belief, by contrast, is an unexamined and unevidenced speculation based on nothing.

I'm shocked anyone believes on EVOLUTION! 100 percent garbage and goes against laws of physics and Nature- pure stupidity

I'm very surprised this guy believes in EVOLUTION?? Evolution is garbage and a religion within itself

If we were to believe thatGod sent people to communicate His message then what would the Holy Spirit be used for. Why wouldn’t we consider the Islamic Prophet, since the Judea God, the Islamic God, and the Christian God all believe in the Abrahamic God?

Lucy Harris - smart, smart, smart!

I recommend the book Bart Ehrman "How Jesus became God", which explains the history of how the Trinity evolved, plus the most likely historical truth behind the story.

Yeah, the message was "believe despite it being a scam"

Wow, that's a lot of flesh and blood to do all that spreading.

I can testify that drinking Coca Cola all day is good for you. Doesn’t make it true.

And I testify that Smith ruined his movement by his lust for girls, especially young ones, leading to the crooked doctrine of polygamy.

It's a metaphor and a cultural bias.

​@@charlesmendeley9823A metaphor of what?

Lol thinking God is an actual wizard on a tower.

It’s a way for humans to understand because God is beyond our comprehension. The same reason the word “Father” is used.

@@Adam-ww8ei if God is beyond our comprehension, is it possible that he's perfectly evil?

Also what Bible verse or versus proves your flat earth theory??

How did Nephi see horses, donkies and elephants when they didn’t exist in the Americas at the time 🤔🤔🤔

@@3thingsfishing427 What "time" are we referring to? Horses, donkeys and I don't know about elephants went the other direction on the Bering Strait. The rest were hunted to extinction in the Americas.

So they do still sell crack?! Sweet!

@@livejay9062 all I have to do is say it once and it does its own work.

That's a good point. However one can choose how willing one is to examine the evidence or arguments the other party presents. . For example, there are people who believe the earth is flat. But it seems to me they just deny all the evidence that will prove them wrong.

@@comparedtowhat2719 either?

Who cares what D&C says, you and I both know it is false.

What purpose is there for you to say that D&C is right if your god, whatever your god is, when Jesus said that in heaven there will be no giving in marriage or taken in marriage. So how is it that this strange idea that Joseph Smith called some god, is sooooooo worried about how many wives you have rather than actually being in fellowship with God? You mean he is sooooooo much into sex that you need to have it here and there as much as you want with as many as you want? That, dear Mormon, is ISLAM.

Thank you

@moorek1967 it has nothing to do with you believing in the Doctrine & Covenants. The speaker made a statement about the LDS church beliefs as if it were true and the above comment was correcting this statement. P.S. if you knew anything about polygamy when it was practiced in the LDS church you would not make such an ignorant statement about sex. Women were unable to work and provide for their families back then, many of the men had been killed in war or in taming a new land. Men married more then one woman to provide for them and their children often there was no sex with the extra wives. I'm not dumb enough to say it didn't happen but this wasn't the purpose at all. Once it was not longer a necessity the church abolished it. We have a few stories in our genealogy and in one a man was not able to marry his sweetheart unless he married her mother, who had 5 other children and had lost her husband, also. Desperate times call for desperate measure

@@maribradford14 Sorry, your excuse about women and not finding work will not fly. Polygamy is 100% for the sexual satisfaction of men who commit adultery and call it "marriage". May I ask, what is the minimum age for marriage to little girls? Do these women need to be taken care of on the man's Kolob because she can't find a job? Jesus said if a man looks upon a woman to lust after her in his heart, he commits adultery with her already, and that is how your "marriages" happen, a man thinks he needs another woman and lusts after one, then he thinks he needs another and lusts after her, and then he thinks he needs another one and lusts after her....tell me, do you mormon men marry solely for the purpose of taking care of them financially or do you need to have sex with them? One after the other...after the other, after the other...what is the minimum age until you are satisfied?

Yes. If you watch other videos on Joseph Smith in this channel he talks about Smith joining the Freemasons and introducing the Temple Ritual afterwards. This video is not on that subject, so there is no need to mention it.

Wasn't the breath that he covered in this video enough? It has a topic. He did a lesson or talk on Joseph Smith's Redefinition of God. Not Joseph Smith. Freemason's from My understanding not doing their levels don't end up being Gods nor have I ever heard even a whiff of a claim of that to be the case. His breadth of knowledge and his presentation has no rival. He gives a historical perspective based on writing and use. He also never appears with a thumb on the scale or extreme judgment. He clears up thousands of years of mythical, and religious knowledge and is a great service.

There's no dogma of evolution. It's a demonstrable undeniable fact, which all experts agree on, and pretty much the only people who reject it are for clearly religious reasons. Acceptance of the fact of evolution is a worldwide thing. Experts everywhere agree. Meanwhile, rejection of evolution is a geographically segregated issue, that follows the concentration of certain religious sects. There are more Muslim and Hindu creationists, but since you speak English you're probably an evangelical or a Jehovah's Witness. Crunching statistical numbers, probably an evangelical. Did I guess? If so, how did I do it?

What is he misinformed about?

@@moorek1967 The role of Latter-day Saint women, for example, and changes made in the Book of Mormon -- indeed, the Book of Mormon itself, which Hamer seems to understand only superficially. The major problem with Hamer's approach is that he is judging the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by the tenets and history of creedal Christianity -- by something the Church has never claimed to have been a part of. (It's like judging Christianity by the tenets of Islam.) Hamer quotes Joseph Smith's statement that if we could look into heaven for five minutes, we would know more than all of the learned professors (like Hamer) about the nature of God -- but Hamer is judging what Joseph Smith learned by direct revelation from God by the tenets and history of creedal Christianity instead of judging creedal Christianity by the revelations of God. I guess what bothers me most is that this lecture really isn't about Joseph Smith's theology as much as it's about John Hamer. John Hamer is who Paul was referring to when he wrote to Timothy that "In the last days perilous times will come...for men shall be lovers of their own selves...having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof...ever learning, and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth" (2 Timothy 3:1-7).

@@brb5506 Really? You just sat here and told me it has never been part of Christianity and yet you falsely attach Jesus' name to a false doctrine, that you know full well in your heart is false. Since LDS falsely uses the name of Jesus, then why did Joseph Smith need another testament, to say Jesus needed another secret one that only came about after Joseph Smith decided to commit fraud and lust after a 14 year-old girl. Jesus said "It is finished". Is there another testament? No, it is finished. This so-called something you claim is god, your god, the one you wish to claim Joseph Smith worshiped, is not of the Bible, this god thing you worship only became god when Joseph Smith decided to trick people with a stone in his hat peeping in it to find treasure, that he never found by the way. And this same hat peeping is how he "translated" the Book of Mormon. Your god is not eternal, because if he was simply exalted which means nothing, then were his parents exalted as well? Why don't you worship the parents of your god, because they would be gods as well. Don't say that I am wrong because I do know the King Follet Sermon. So this god, born a man somewhere out there on some place called Kolob, was he born as a man of flesh and blood or simply a spirit baby? What were his parents' names? What did they look like? Where is their testament that this baby was theirs? Where is the evidence? The eternal, self-existent God who was always God, suddenly one day decides to directly reveal to Joseph Smith to have sex with another man's wife and rape a 14 year-old girl? And you don't realize that he also adored Mohammad and Islam? Yes, your polygamy comes from Islam, so go read the Quran and tell me Joseph Smith could be true, then why not Mohammad? and his mother pregnant four years and a light shining out of her private parts all the way to Syria. Go ahead and tell me why he is not your prophet as well if Joseph Smith said he would be like Mohammad. Were god's parents married in the temple? Did they wear special underwear? Did they have an LDS minister perform the ceremony? Did they go to Utah to get married? And was god's name registered as being born to them? Don't quote the Bible if you don't know what it really says. Everything Joseph Smith taught about the god of his penis is contrary to every word in the Bible. Golden Tablets? You mean the angel Moroni never appeared in history to anyone else, just to one day give a hat peeping con man a look at some tablets he claimed was made of gold, written in a language that never existed...for Smith to have to hat peep to translate? You mean this Moroni who came to Joseph Smith once, except twice, was the only one who knew about the Native Americans, and it took Joseph Smith to you about the Native Americans what they should have already known? You mean the Native Americans that Joseph Smith said Jesus came to, yet Joseph Smith had to tell you about the Native Americans? Moroni could not go to the Native Americans? Why now? Why did Moroni not go to them and tell them to be prophets? Seems to me that if Moroni was so sure about being right, then why was no prophet sent to them until Joseph Smith was born to a con artist family who cheated a lot of people? If Jesus came to the Native Americans, let the Native Americans tell it. But I want you to go through history and show us where to find Reformed Egyptian. Go ahead. Egypt isn't the real name the people called themselves, that is the Greek name from the Ptolemy dynasty. The Hebrews called them Mizraim, but they called themselves Khem. In which dynasty did Reformed Egyptian appear? After Christ? Well, that would be Demotic, evolving into Coptic. So why are the Copts not using Reformed Egyptian? You mean to tell me that nobody on the whole planet knew about Reformed Egyptian, not even Egyptians until Moroni told Joseph Smith, while Egypt has maintained its history over 5,000 years? They never mentioned in their own history? Wow, he really got you fooled, believing an angel named Moroni told about the Native Americans but never appeared to any of the Native Americans and presented to him a book in a language that not even the people of the place even knew...Amazing, and he learned it all by hat peeping.

​@@moorek1967 Wow! What a litany of incoherent babbling and nonsensical claims. What you wrote is so full of logical fallacies and cognitive biases that I wouldn't know where to begin to dissect it. When you decide you want to know the truth, instead of defending your Ego, you know in your heart where to find it.

@@brb5506 Don't try me. I want you to disprove every point and I will make the question simple so even you can understand, ok? 1: Prove Reformed Egyptian is anywhere in historical records outside ok LDS. 2: Prove Joseph Smith did not have two different stories about an angel encounter. 3: Prove Joseph Smith did not marry a 14 year-old girl while still married to his first wife. Prove also he did not marry a woman already married to another man. 4:Prove outside of LDS the Lehites and Nephites. 5: Prove from historical sources that Joseph Smith was not a con man using hat peeping. 6: Prove outside LDS the veracity of the BOM. 7: Prove outside LDS and King Follett Sermon that God was a man who became exalted. 8: Prove that you will become exalted. 9: Prove any doctrine or teaching of Jesus Christ in LDS. 10: Prove the Golden Tablets were given then buried immediately and they were in Joseph Smith's hand when interpreting it. We will start there, if you can attempt to prove any claim by Joseph Smith outside of LDS, then you might have something. But as it stands now, these are claims made by LDS, so if you don't like to be challenged yet you blaspheme Jesus and the Holy Spirit by ramming a statue of a fake angel on top of a building that has nothing to do with Jesus, try again saying I have logical fallacies because I am not the one defending claims made by a straight up con man...who went so far as to claim the Egyptian Book of The Dead was about Abraham when literally thousand of the scrolls have been found all over Egypt in funerary sarcophagi. Thousands. Are you so willing to sink that low in theological quicksand that you do not want to see that Smith made up a lie? The Egyptian Book of the Dead dedicated to Thoth, thousands also on walls of temples and pyramids. Thousands. But hey, what happened to said mummy purchased by those who played like Joseph Smith was a prophet?