@@_Tristen_ well it’s not just remembering, I ve seen plenty of people after a major traumatizing event their minds blank on basic information. These guys have been blown out of the sky some of their friends are now dead they’re beat to shit from the jump the landing plus whatever wounds they took in the plane. It makes sense they wouldn’t get even half the questions correct.
@@AEsir2023 yeah, but them also having them write the date was definitely the key factor in exposing him as an infiltrator. Because there’s no denying how Americans write the date compared to Europeans.
@@_Tristen_ that’s true I’m sure there were plenty of tests he failed for them to just shoot him but the more you look at the guy the more seems wrong.
The German lighter in his possession pretty much confirmed it. While an infantryman could easily pass it off as a souvenir or trophy, not so much if you were an airman based in England. On top of that, Bob didn't have the same injuries as Quinn and Bailey.
They knew before that. He signed the date on his interrogation paper the European way, but perhaps he failed other tests. They couldnt see his lighter. Besides, that would be a schoolboy error to carry a German lighter.
I don't see why an airman in England couldn't have a German lighter, taken from a crashed or bailed out German airman. In fact that's exactly the kind of trophy I'd expect one to have as airmen were of course interested in crashed aircraft and more allowed to visit them and meet captured German aircrew, for professional purposes. And if they couldn't get their hands on one themselves, it would certainly be very high on the list of trophies they'd trade for from the local MP or whoever had acquired one by any means.
@@Stripedbottom I still wouldn't take any chances. Remember, the Resistance themselves said that the Germans have repeatedly been attempting to sabotage their operations by that point. Better safe than sorry, and stupid is equivalent to dead, as they say.
@@Stripedbottom On this note, my family has a flying helmet that passed from my grandfather to my father, originally taken by one of my grampa's brothers from a crashed bomber near the family farm in Denmark (grampa moved to Canada right after the war, which is where I am). That was all we knew about it until I looked into it a few years back, and long story short it was from a crashed Lancaster, but it's an early-war German helmet (Battle of Britain era). My best guess is it was a trophy kept by one of the bomber crew, which itself had been taken from a downed German early in the war, passing through however many hands until it ended up on that Lanc.
@@17MrLeon Being bloody sure is not the same as being right. There is a tombstone in the American West, put up in the late 1800s by a vigilante group, which goes, "Here lies the body of Arkansas Jim. We made the mistake but the joke's on himj."
Key takeaways about Bob that raised suspicion: 1. His injuries are not consistent with the other aviators. 2. He says “just so proudly we hailed” instead of “what so proudly we hailed” during the anthem, yet sings the entire song so confidently. It’s apparent that he memorized it for a cover and made an error with that line. 3. He writes the date in the European fashion, day-month-year. The US military format of DDMMMYY did not exist during the war. 4. His lighter.
@@jeoh93It's the mainly the 1s. German 1 looks like a 7 when handwritten. It's distinctively different from how Americans are taught. Likewise yes, 9s look like a g, and if there were 7s, they would look like a 7 with a dash through the middle. Source: Raised in Germany and America. Could have also caught him on a number of other things, but he was a sloppy spy.
The US military format of DDMMMYY did absolutely exist during the war. Look at ww2 discharge papers where that date format is almost universal or WW2 orders where its about a 50/50 ratio of DDMMMYY and MMDDYY..
Probably. WW1 saw a consider amount of Black German soldiers who originated from countries in Africa, especially those colonized by Germany. The same cannot really be said of the Wehrmacht during the reign of Nazi Germany. A few black minorities fought for Nazi Germany, but I reckon the number was less than 100, perhaps even less than 10. And those few that did were more than likely never seen as equal, but as human meat shields to be killed in place of an ethnic German soldier. Just a disposable tool, like all those foreign SS volunteers. Had Germany won the war, all those foreign volunteers in the SS that were considered as inferior subhumans would have been awarded with an execution afterwards the same way the Soviets executed those that had outlived their usefulness.
@@LimacyGermans didn't give a shit about the volunteers, one way or the other. Not worth going out of their way to backstab the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem when they're busy trying to administrate Greater Germany.
@Mike-ock Heinrich Leroyheimer and Baron Helmut Schnitzelnazi were successfully evading the Gestapo during this time. I feel like Spielberg’s next miniseries should be about them.
Bob singing the whole star spangled Banner then our boy Quinn hummed half of it. Bob’s injuries also weren’t the same and his answers were just too perfect. Also I think someone pointed out he wrote the date in the European way.
I remember reading a short story "No Refuge Could Save" by Issac Asimov, wherein the narrator was tasked with determining whether a man was a German spy. He did so by playing a game of word association with him: he'd say a word or phrase and the suspect would respond with the first thing that came to his mind. When the investigator said, "terror of flight," the suspect replied with, "gloom of the grave." This gave him away: "From the terror of flight/and the gloom of the grave" is a line from the third verse of the Star Spangled Banner. Most Americans don't even know about the second verse, let alone the lyrics to the third, but the spy over-prepared by learning the entire song.
@ericsampson372 Not gonna lie, but isn't it bad to count on Americans not knowing their own national anthem in full.. that sounds like a recipe for disaster if you're patriotic or educated enough. Now, I assume of course there's other tests to conduct beyond that, but that part alone would be a pretty strange thing to factor in.
@@h3rpad3rpacifilisThe main way they knew was he was too enthusiastic to sing it. Notice how the other two get confused at the question and reluctantly start singing it at varied levels of tone, but "Bob" practically jumps at the chance to sing the anthem, while also fucking it up wit "just how proudly we hailed" for the second verse, instead of the correct lyric of "what so proudly we hailed". All in all, the lighter + his injuries, uniform and how happy he was to sing the American anthem when asked to do so in an interrogation made it clear he was a German who had recited the song and knew what questions he'd be asked, the date is a silly reason, since many American reports you can find are dated with the European method, it was just a thing the military did iirc in WW2.
the 9 in german is also written like a g commonly you'll also notice it when in inglorious bastards Hans Landa is writing the ages down of the Draufuses
His "Yah" is very close to the German word "Ja" (yes). American "Yeah" comes with a slight movement of the lower jaw, German equivalent "Ja" is without
Another simple way to spot spies is simply ask them, what they had for breakfast that morning. Most B17 crews didn't really eat much except to drink coffee. Crews with long flights don't usually eat heavy meals since there's no proper bathroom on board. They eat heavy meals upon return.
I'd think that the real risk for the infiltrator would be talking to his "fellow" crewmembers. I was an Army aircrewman myself a long time ago and if somebody was pretending to be an aircrewman and was talking to myself and other aircrewman of our era - I'd think we'd realize in minutes that something wasn't kosher. Just the shared knowledge about our aircraft, our complaints, our daily life, the units we came from, the people we knew -- that kind of stuff would be impossible to study and fake in order to fit into the group. Like even a simple question like "what happened to you, how did you get out" would provide plenty of opportunities for a revealing slip-up. The resistance should have just put these guys in a room together, told them it was safe to talk, and listen-in.
Spies can get to this knowledge through interrogation of prisoners of war. POW's will give that information easily because it doesn't appear to be important like giving some troop movements or other military intelligence.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanns_Scharff "The Luftwaffe kept a vast collection of personal information about any pilot or commander in an enemy air wing in individual files. When faced with a tight-lipped prisoner, Scharff usually consulted these files during interrogation sessions. He began by asking a prisoner a question he already knew the answer to, informing the prisoner that he knew everything about him, but his superiors had instructed that the prisoner himself had to say it. Scharff continued asking questions that he would then provide the answers for, each time hoping to convince his captive that there was nothing he did not already know. When he eventually got to the piece of information he did not have, prisoners would frequently answer, assuming Scharff already had it in his files anyway, often saying so as they provided the information. Scharff kept the Luftwaffe's lack of knowledge a strict secret to exploit the same tactic in later conversations"
@@spectre1725 I don't think you understand what I'm saying. It's not that they couldn't find out some of this information - it's the sheer magnitude of the information and the level of depth that would be extremely difficult to pick up and emulate. It's the trivial stuff and the shared experiences that outsiders wouldn't even know to ask about. The only way a person gets to know all this is to actually be immersed in it.
@@arkwill14 yes that makes sense. Still I am sure POW's were asked about questions that seemed trivial to them while it was important knowledge for german spies.
No, they could not have captured and interogated him for the following reasons. 1) Any information he might have would be time sensitive, and already out of date. It would be a waste of time. He would have been trained to resist any techniques used to get information. You could spend days and get nothing, but it might spread fear and mistrust among the rest of the men. 2) They have to move quickly and quietly. Having somebody bound slows you down, and could easily give away your position. 3) Escape. If he managed to get away, he now has much more information on how you operate and who you are. 4) Having a captive is a waste of resources, which are already limited. As a prisoner, he was of absolutely no value. His job was to gather intel, he had nothing worth the effort of keeping him alive.
"We DON'T make mistakes" as they show the lighter...If he was an 8th USAAF flyer, he would have had a Zippo Maybe the date, but its was definitely the lighter that sealed his fate. Plus, if you're NOT SURE, why take a chance?
Everyone's talking about the questions and tells, but I'm really concerned about how he absolutely flagged the two aviators behind him. Hell, it's only chance that neither of them got hit by brain covered bullet at that range. And of course the blood on their new cloths isn't gonna help their escape. Don't use people as your backstop, guys.
That's an IMCO lighter,an austrian company. PS i doubt they would have killed him using a firearm,and using two rounds too. The noise is a serious problem,plus the ammunition was VERY hard to be found for such people. A knife was much more economical,and silent.
the lighter is the point: An infantryman could be expected to have picked up spoils of war, but not an airman. Him having a german lighter just didn't make enough sense without having to believe an unlikely story.
It appears everyone is wrong: "Though the Belgians don't explain how they knew Bob was a German spy, it is revealed by a test performed on the men prior to leaving. Bob wrote the European date rather than the American one."
I read that too, but when I worked for the USAF we had to write the date in the DD-MMM-YY form. It's normal for me to do that after 30 years. I would be screwed
He probably said "F*ck Hitler. I love America. Betty Boop hey? Great gambs" with a heavy German accent, so they were like "hmmm... He's probably German..."
Looks like he shot through his upraised hand first...maybe they figured that could've slowed down the bullet enough to potentially make it non-lethal, and therefore worthy of a follow-up shot just to be sure
@ZekeZeon - this is why I'm not sure about the accuracy of this part of the series - this whole scene seems gratuitous and melodramatic - not 'realistic'. Here's my problems with this scene: - If you were convinced someone was a spy, you would not shoot him in such a way in front of others who were convinced he was not - He aimed his pistol pretty much at the whole group and showed no 'muzzle discipline'. He could have seriously injured or killed any of the other crew. - Such a traumatic event (basically a cold-blooded murder in front of you) would cause major consternation of the others present, who knows how they would react? - It would be much better to interrogate and hold the spy than to shoot him murderously in front of others in such a way. Granted, there were many murders in WWII, but this action was premeditated and was a deliberate judgement. Why wait to this moment? Why not simply apprehend him?
@@hub5343nah dude.. you're thinking logically. These fellas are killers now. He knew he wasn't gonna hit the others. And he gave no shits whether it ticked em off. They're cold and mean. And taking no chances. We don't even know if he was a spy. But whose gambling..
That was a petrol polo lighter he picked up. But The sound effect was of a zippo wheel sparking. A polo lighter was more metallic as it was the lid flipping open that sparked the flint.
i cant help but feel this was a pretty stupid thing, i understand the clues to him being a infiltrator, but the idea that those clues alone would be enough for them to just shoot him in the head? i mean, there was still a good chance he was not one, would have made more sense for them to interrogate him. But the show had to do it within a short timeframe and whatnot
And the fact when he was lighting the cigarette, it was a German cigarette lighter not an American zippo lighter and I thought the he was able to sing the whole Star Spangled Banner while most Americans end up humming it. Germans would train a spy to learn the whole thing.
I am not a smoker anymore, but I had one of these lighters in the 70s...I am sure, they are still on sale in shops.. But, a lot of smokers use these Piezo-Lighters..
I'd be in trouble . I worked for 30 years for the USAF, first thing I had to learn was to use the dd-mmm-yyyy format for all correspondence. Awkward at first, but now I use it by default
funny you should say that considering the amount of effort put into, not only this scene but the entire show. maybe if you werent such a bum you would have seen all the other comments illustrating the process of the spy's discovery.
@@thikifo395 Nah, scratching on the 40s in a few months, i'm just sick and tired of the old "allied heroes catch ze evil nazi spy". Ok, you guys won WWII, i get it. Can we move on now? Thx.
Not really there were a lot of little hints, the way he sang the national anthem (there were mistakes and some of enunciations had a German undertone), he didn’t have any similar injuries to the other airman, and the final test was prob the lighter (those are German lighters, strange to have for an Allied Airman).
that's dumb, even if you did have proof he was a spy, you wouldn't just execute him unless he was an immediate threat. Take him on a walk to the POW camp and once you arrive you can let him know he's been caught and the intel guys need to speak with him.
@truesouldavid what's interesting military nowadays DO write the date that way. But yes during that time US military didn't. And yeah I sensed a slight accent during the SSB that seemed very off. The lighter confirmed he was a German.
I know only that one scene to get all this, but how did they know he was a traitor and not a fugitive/deserter from Germany who wanted to join the right side of the fight?
Because if he was a defector, he wouldn't need to be pretending to be an American aviator. Furthermore isn't this part set in German controlled territory? Pretending to be a downed aviator is a pretty dumb choice when u can just surrender to resistance force.
couple things - he's the only one that arrived alone, he writes the date during the interview in a european fashion, he doesn't have any cuts or bruises like the others from falling out of an aircraft, he both misspeaks a word in the national anthem and belts it out like a german would, and he had a non-US airforce model lighter (possibly a german lighter?). At least in rewatching the episode, those are the things that I could see possibly being hints towards him being the infiltrator.
The bit about hirelings and slaves seems to have gone out of fashion...they were bonded labourers and enslaved people who escaped and fought for the British against their previous 'owners' in the Colonial Marines. They helped the Brits make a right mess of the White House.
Hij schreef de datum op de verkeerde manier (op de Europese manier en niet de Amerikaanse) toen ze tijdens de ondervraging vroegen om de datum op te schrijven.
@jermastan1636 want to know how I know you're just bullshitting and lying on the internet? Because anyone who knows a single thing about firearms would never ever fire a round at any target with a friendly behind it. Just wouldn't happen. And anyone who defends it literally has never been around a firearm in their life. Sorry bud, you can't bullshit your way through this one. Try someone else
@jermastan1636 I'm responding to the original comment. If you want to think I'm talking about the show, fine but I'm not. It's a pointless argument you are starting that I don't even care for. In the end, my point still stands. You don't like it? Talk to someone else about it, because I'm done with this pointless argument
You all think this is an infiltrator? What if i told you, he wasn't? There is no sure way to know, not even by resistance terrorist one and two here. They have gut feelings, and that is why they killed him. It could just as easily been one of the other two, and then they tell the survivors some fancy story on 'how they knew' and such. You people are overthinking this too much, having seen to many tarentino movies with 3 finger ordering of beers and such.
Poorly done scene, in several ways. It's highly unlikely that the man would have been executed like that out in the open during the day, and in the presence of the Americans. He wouldn't have been shot under any circumstances. He would have been garroted, neat, tidy, quiet. Or, if cleanliness weren't an issue, his throat would have been slit. If a gun were involved, it would have been equipped with a suppressor. That noisy great cannon would have sent the pigeons scattering for a mile. But, still, an unnecessary extravagance - a waste of a bullet. One couldn't just walk down to the corner gun shop and buy a box of shells. Besides, a man carrying one of those and caught by the Germans would have faced a very unpleasant last few hours or days in the local blood-spattered Gestapo basement spewing the names of every resistance fighter in the area. No heroes in a Gestapo basement. They all talk. Just an unrealistic scene. (Aside from the angle of the shot which would likely have resulted in one of the Americans being hit and both covered in copious amounts of bone and brains. The corpse showed an exit wound in the back of the head.)
also there was not nearly enough evidence to warrant a execution like this, i mean there was some give aways but still, they would definitely not have just shot him without interrogation. Those little details are enough to raise alarms no doubt, but not enough to warrant this action right off the bat.
@@bigsoap186 I haven't watched the series so was just working off this clip. You're right. He would have been separated from the others and interrogated thoroughly and, if proven to be an infiltrator, would have simply disappeared. The others would never have known what happened to him.
Actually that isn't quite correct. Many people never confessed anything upon Gestapo torture. A female SOE agent most notably, she angered the Gestapo so much by refusing to talk they actually still seemed upset about it when they were writing their reports days later.
@@esmeecampbell7396I know those stories. One woman went on to live a long life. Another was sent to a camp after interrogation, spent several months there, and presumably when she refused to die of starvation, was taken out and executed by the Gestapo not long before the war ended. Also, we'll never know how many died under torture without revealing anything. But, surely you'll allow me some dramatic license here. It isn't a documentary we're discussing.
Also when he got shot he fell backwards, but somehow he managed to fully turn around during his very short and very fast fall because he was laying on his stomach. Pretty unlikely position to end up in when you fall backwards
Don't be shocked by this scene. I knew a former resistance fighter from the north of France, now deceased, who told me that if an infiltrator was not unmasked in time, dozens of resistance fighters, women and men from the network, would be captured then executed or deported to the death camps by the Gestapo and the SS.
They are partisans. Where were they going to hold him? Also, the Germans would not send an infiltrator who knows too much. His job was to get information, not to give it.
@@millerthemagnificent3156 Wrong my guy.. go do a quick image search of WW2 US military documents and start scrolling through... It was definitely the army standard to use DDMMMYY for the date, and was written this way more often than not.
He was not a German theres no way. He was an American they should have let him lived. Like bro really after his entire life of studying english it all ended for nothing
The resistance had searched Quinn's personal things & then the lady said that it is very stupid if you keep personal things. If the lighter really matter, the resistance should know that Bob is a spy from the beginning if they his personal things same as Quinn.
There was the same plot device in 'Went the Day Well?', a classic British propaganda film from early in World War 2, where a German vanguard disguised as Allies take over a small British coastal village to help secure it for a full-scale invasion, But suspicions are initially aroused when one of the locals notices one of the 'Allies' writing in A Continental Style. A contemporary giveaway might be the continental style of many European countries to use quote marks differently, as well as their curious way of writing prices, eg as 3£ instead of £3, etc. These kind of small things hint at big underlying differences.
FYI: Spy or infiltrator are generally is not being taking as POW remember if enemy Soldier caught in a Different Military Dress by other Military will be shoot on sight what do you think of the Guerrillas that did not Follow Military Rules
