Lady Ochiba Reflects on Mariko's Past - Scene | Shōgun | FX 

post the scene from episode 4 with jonh and mariko talking about england please!!! such and sweet scene

u could have done a lot more to push forth the dynamics..

I just realized that in this interaction, Ochiba mocked Mariko's poem (death, leafless withering branch). Mariko responded by saying that only Ochiba can end the games. In the final episode, we learned that Ochiba would withdraw support for Ishido (true to the book), and Ochiba finished Mariko's poem... flowers are only flowers because they fall, but thankfully the wind... she was the wind. She was the final line. She validated Toranaga's and Mariko's fight. The meaning of their poems was how the story would play out. Pretty profound but I expect no less from the director.

Two friends, torn apart by forces outside of their control. If I may say, victims of circumstances who rolled with the flow.

she did some interviews in japan

Copy-pasting her name in japanese can bring up interviews about this role.

There is a distant sequel by Clavell called "Gaijin" which talks about the leadup to the Meiji Restoration and essentially features descendants of Toranaga. There's an opportunity there if they'll have it

Outside of pillowing and meeting Mariko and maybe Fuji, the potential bullshit back in England was more subtle than what he found himself amid in Japan.

Coomer detected

Bro had his chance in the Willow World but gobbled its balls.

Didnt real life ochiba also made somewhat of a truce to the real life toranaga?

@@kungalexander829 Its because her character in the series somewhat merged with the real life daimyo Terumoto Mori, who is absent from Shogun (book and because that, the series too). Its said that because Terumoto did not appear in Sekigahara with Hideyori, the Western Army lost. So, her arc about using the heir's name to not supporting Ishido its because of that.

Tokugawa wiped out she and her heir in real life, so he can become Shogun himself. First a truce with her, so he can order his men to quickly fill up all the problematic defensive moats of her castle. Then a siege, and both she and her heir died. Her heir is the rightful ruler next in line, so he is a direct threat to Tokugawa. It's kind of like how the most dominant lions in the wild sometimes kill off the younger lions that they feel would threaten their own position. Or like the animal politics in monkeys and chimpanzees. Human beings have more intelligence, but it is still primitive animal behaviors.

Mariko is dead because of ishido, so ochiba switches sides just to kill ishido

@@gekii. Which gives Toranaga Total Power. Ochiba knew Toranaga couldn’t be trusted. The entirety of Japan knows that Toranaga wants power for himself, we can even see this in the first couple of episodes where he is accused of aligning power against the council by expanding his fief and arranging marriages. So if Toranaga wins, her son loses the seat of power. She even explains everything that she went through to get her son. So she jeopardises her sons future and life (yes in actual history Tokugawa Ieyasu ends up besieging Osaka causing Yodo Dono (Ochiba) and Toyotomi Hideyori (the heir) to commit suicide, which is definitely what Toranaga would also do) just because her best friend who she hasn’t met in over a decade died? That sounds silly in my opinion, which is why I’m asking if there is another explanation given. Also, Ishido is honestly better for the heir as he physically cannot become Shogun due to his lineage and the fact that him being married to Ochiba (therefore being the heir’s stepfather) already gives him enough power, so there would be no need for him to want more other than to secure his own position, which after Ishido’s death would give the heir total power.

@@TheGhost-fk4eo feel free to interpret, you can stick to the history if you want, or add a bit of fiction to them.

⁠@@gekii. You also skipped out on all the other aspects in the story that make this silly. *She doesn’t trust Toranaga* this is very evident in the first episode we see her. She along with all of Japan knows exactly what Toranaga wants, the evidence is there. Considering everything that she went through to get her son, it is silly to throw that all away because her friend she hasn’t seen in 10 years died. Also in James Clavell’s Book Gaijin which takes the place 250 years after the events of shogun (yes is is the same universe) the heir’s clan is confirmed to be destroyed? What do you think happened? They all just died? Clavell has shown that he sticks to the general way history went whilst changing only the minor details that won’t make much of a difference, if Sekigahara is there, I see no reason why the sieges of Osaka would not also happen considering their importance. Also, it is absolutely in Toranaga’s character and best interests to eliminate the heir. When Toranaga dies, the heir could challenge Toranaga’s successor, putting everything Toranaga did into jeopardy. So to secure his dynasty he would need to eliminate those that could pose a threat in the future (AKA The Heir). Ochiba is not stupid and would know that Toranaga wouldn’t just leave any loose ends (especially one as big as that). The original book had a better explanation as to why The Heir’s army did not fight at Sekigahara. Ochiba did not want to risk losing her son, as if he fought in the battle and lost, he would have to be put to death. However, this wasn’t a big twist for Ishido, he knew this. What happened in the battle was the Christian Regents betrayed Ishido for what he did to Mariko.

She didn't take Toranaga's side, she simply removed support for Ishido. We find out she blocked the heir's army from joining Ishido, not that they switched sides and are fighting for Toranaga. There's a difference. I think she made a truce rather than gave full support to Toranaga. Mariko's death is what causes Ishido to lose, and Ochiba, who wants to save herself and her son and maintain her power, realized this. Toranaga had won and she simply did what was best for her and her son in the new circumstances. She still doesn't trust him or even support him but she falls in line out of self preservation.

People who only understand English will never know the wonderful world that exists elsewhere. They are pitiful people.

Learn Engrish

I’m an English speaker and I’ve been watching foreign films since I was 14, I’m now 46. When you get use to subtitles watching foreign films is far more an immersive experience. Anyway, I can understand basic Japanese, but not the older dialect used in Shogan so much, so I’m able to watch a little more than I read, despite that though I do enjoy non English speaking films! Why do you assume that English speakers don’t learn languages? And why so aggressive by “shouting” your words? Also, like someone else mentioned “Learn English!”

shamfur dispray!