when the teacher walks by and says "bitch" gives me chills every time since the teacher was the only one who tried to disclose the abuse earlier but the school stopped her to avoid angering the dad.
If you look at her she’s one of those good Samaritan Christian woman who believes in the right thing and yet when she sees people doing harm to others like children it’s just very ungodly. I can’t blame her for that she literally said it truthfully I would’ve said the same thing to I bet you she probably wish something could’ve been done faster.
Ms. Perez is doing what I would admittedly do in such a situation, if calling a parent a name was all I could do. I have my own ideas of what I would do if I could mete out justice for a small child, and let us just say it would violate the Constitutional provision against cruel and unusual punishment.
This doesn’t show it, but it becomes even worse when you get the sense that, if Ms. Peters had made similar claims to school administrators, Dede would still be alive.
@@TPTGopher first of all who the fuck is "Ms. Peters"? Second of all. She did tell, they blew her off. You have to remember this isn't a recent episode, this episode is 30 years old times were different then.
Imagine calling a teacher 'biased' for reporting rightly that a child was being excessively abused and exactly why she said she was abused. Was it really that different back then? That principal would have been arrested for violating mandatory reporting laws nowadays, not to mention everyone and their dog would think he was a piece of trash for ignoring the teacher's reports to him.
I don't know about that. There's a guy that I know and he used to be a school psychologist about 10 years ago. He thought a little boy about 4-5 was getting abused at home and he tried to report it to the principal but he would ignore it. And then at the end of that year they transferred that little boy to another school and then a few months into that school year the parents sold the home and moved away. And of course they transferred that little boy to another school to where they had moved to. However when that little boy didn't show up at any school people got suspicious. It turns out that they had a deep freeze in their basement they had put him in there and locked it shut. And when they pried it open there was scratch marks on the inside they made that little baby suffocate. And right after that happen he quit and went to another school. Because he could not look him in the face. And he even tried to deny that it was his fault. The principal I mean.
@@RexTheDinosaur1 Hmmmm.....I dunno about 10 years ago, but you have to now. I mean, sure, you want the Principal behind you so you talk to them first, but if you're convinced, you have to do it.
@@MO123rules Well it did happen 10 years ago I'm sorry if you don't believe me. But I am studying Elementary education in University right now and the guy that told me this, he's one of the professors in the education department. In the state where I live, there are two different types really. There's the type of school that I mentioned with that guy that got ignored if it's a white kid that came from a lake middle-class or Rich home which you would find in the northern part of my state. Or the second type of school where they'll report anything just to get praised for it even if they know for sure that that kid isn't getting abused. They still lie anyway.That usually happened in the southern part of the state where I live. Because I personally knew a girl that was in my little brother's class she told her special education teacher that her mother grounded her for making bad grades and the teacher blew it out of proportion and got the two kids taken away. But yeah it determines what school that you go to. There are some schools like I said in my state where they won't report anything and then some schools in my state report stuff that isn't even true just so they could get a pat on the back, but it also depends on your principal and your superintendent too. cuz sometimes your principal and superintendent are dirty. That's why when I graduate I'm going to move out of state and work at a school that's far away as possible from where I live. Also they care little about education. All they care about is sports. Schools in my state are notoriously known for asking money for new school books and then they use it on new sports equipment. but you know what's actually funny? Is that there are teachers that abused their students where I live as well. I had a teacher in kindergarten, she used to hit kids with a yardstick. None of us told on her because, for a lot of us she was our very first teacher. So, because of this we didn't know that what she was doing was wrong. After I graduated kindergarten, she was moved up to 3rd grade, where I had her again. 3 years later, when I was in 6th grade, this little girl's grandmother tried report her to the principal, but she was ignored. Then she tried to get to the superintendent and again the same thing happened. And then she went to the school board same thing oh, so she decided that she was going to go on the news and talk about how the teacher was with her students and how she got away with it and they wouldn't do anything about her. After that the school finally gave that teacher an ultimatum to either retire on her own or they would fire her. I always felt that it was so hypocritical that they would allow such an abusive teacher to stay there, but yet they would make up things to report on. .
It mostly has to do with the impact words or descriptions have on the jury and how it affects their verdict. If the teacher isn't medically trained, then in court their opinion with regards to medical evaluations is basically like asking a chicken to tell you the weather. But then you ask the teacher to use simpler terms, to describe exactly what they saw with no room or no wording that implies a knowledge they wouldn't have (seeing bruises and burns with your own eyes vs definitively claiming abuse), and you've got the perfect loophole to still say what you want and need the jury to hear
I would absolutely hate to be either of their lawyers.... I know they're paid to defend them and get them a lighter sentence... but dear lord how much I would love the husband to be in jail and the wife to be admitted to a mental hospital
@@genevievemarie9427 ~ It most likely wouldn't happen in an American school today. But back in the 60's 70's and early 80's it certainly did. But what many don't know is, back in the 60's & 70's, it was illegal for teachers, nurses, doctors, etc... to report any forms of child abuse. They could and would lose their jobs in doing so. This episode though, was loosely based on the Joel Steinberg, and Hedda Nussbaum case of New York City in 1987. Why action wasn't taken before Lisa's (the illegally adopted child in the house) death, is something I can't understand. Her teachers reported the abuse. But for some reason, it was never followed up on. But unlike this episode, the woman Hedda Nussbaum, was never formally charged, which I believe she should have been. As the main caretaker, (even if it was illegally), it was her job to protect those children. Regardless if she was being beaten or not. Who knows if it wasn't Hedda who did the actual abusing, and she lied about it on the stand...
@@genevievemarie9427 the teacher complained to the principal multiple times but he wouldn't listen to her. She couldn't do it on her own because the principal would've figured out it was her and fired her
And with such conviction too. Ben was not only compelled by duty to stop these people, but he was also angry. And he had every right to be angry. I was angry.
Once she confessed and said what she said about training her I literally snapped and started sobbing.... the fact that men like this exist make me sick to my damn stomach.
The fact that PEOPLE like this exists makes me sick to my damn stomach. Its not just men who do this...it can be anyone... doesn't matter who they are. My father is currently in an abusive relationship with a woman who hits him and bites him and he's too afraid to defend himself cause he knows she'll play the victim. She even gets jealous over me cause im close to my dad (shes very two faced with me pretending to be nice). As his daughter I should protect him but I'm a 4 hour drive away what can I do?
It's not just some men out there who are like that you know, there women out just as guilty. She abused her children again and again knowing what he wanted them for. Let's not pretend she didn't have a hand in what happened. If anything she is worse then him because she is the mother, she gave birth to these children. I hate it when there are people who want to down play how horrible women can be and pretend that some men can be the only villain in the story.
"He is the greater evil" perfectly sums up this case. While the mother is not innocent and is guilty of the abuse she put her children through, overall, she wasn't the main culprit. She was very obviously mentally damaged due to long-standing abuse, and it is likely this abuse existed even before coming into a relationship with the Father, due to her reverting back to a child-like mental state in other scenes and calling her husband "Daddy". I think it can be argued that she wasn't in the right state of mind, though that in no way excuses her. I'm really happy that they looked deeper into the situation to figure out who the real antagonist was in this situation. It would've been frustrating if the Father didn't get more time due to his part in this entire case. He was just as much at fault for Didi's death as the Mother was.
I, respectfully, disagree on the last comment. She was the one who delivered the blow to DeeDee's head. She should have been mentally stronger to do something, but she was weak. These pair of low-lifes had no business being parents.
@geoffwilliams4478 First off, this is two years old. Second, my last comment stated the fact that both the father and the mother were to blame. Because in abusive situations, they both are. You can be a victim and an abuser at the same time.
This was a classic. The screenplay and the actors were very good. I get chills to this day (20+ years later). I believe this episode made the way for NBC to green light this series for another year and eventually for 18 more years. Great stuff.
HajimeNoJMo Not sure what was more satisfying about that episode (the real monster was only convicted of manslaughter 4 years before “Indifference”) - seeing Lowenstein die in agony, or watching a jury that sure as fuck knew she was guilty take about half an hour to acquit his killer.
When she say that he want her to trained their daughter so they both serve him later I nearly throws up my breakfast That is very disgusting He is a despicable human being !
Exactly. I wanted to punch something when she said that. Ugh! I don't understand how anyone could let themself get so completely dominated by anyone in the first place.
@@oceanelf2512 manipulation, intimidation, and making his victim dependent on him. Trust me abusers will do what they have to so they can hold the power.
its the easiest to be a corporate lawyer. just to argue on a phrase or a single meaning of a word... and get the most money. capitalism rewards who serve it.
Before seeing this, I had never cried when watching a movie or a TV episode. Even when I saw this “mother” about to scald her kid’s hand for being cross-eyed, I still didn’t cry. Then I saw the end credits say there was a similar real life case where the parents got even lesser consequences. I bawled like a baby. Made me realize that real evil exists and justice is often nowhere to be found. One of the most well done TV episodes I’ve ever seen
Its probably a coping mechanism. A child's voice is seen less threatening, the body might regress back to infantile voice to protect itself. No evidence cited, a hypothesis only
Actually it's not unheard of for victims of truama to mentally regress when under extreme stress. It's a defense mechanism that allows the person in question to retract to a time that they felt safer, protected and free of stress. It has nothing to do with Dissociative Identity Disorder (formally multiple personality disorder) You can read more about regression here: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4578899
A lot of Victims in situations like this are taught and trained to use a baby-like voice or a very soft voice. It has more to do with the Assultant and what they like and a lot of them tend to be creeps that like that baby like image. Sometimes victims do use it to seem less intimidating and afraid which is what the Abuser likes, and for the victim to seem smaller and dependent on them. It’s a psychological thing but you’ll see it often with victims in situations like this or sex traffic survivors.
@@joeywilburn8672 The parents abused their children, to the point that their daughter was killed. If I had the strength and every bit of my human empathy removed, I would've tear them apart limb by limb.
Everyone in NYC thought for sure this case would have changed the CPS system, it didn't. This particular episode it's that conversation between Adam and Ben, thoughtful and so realistic.
Believe it or not there are a lot of sick men and women just like this and worse in the world! I sometimes lose sleep at night thinking of all of the poor innocent children who are being terrorized and abused!
the laws are better than in the 70s. in fact, there are similarities in this episode to the Lisa Steinbrenner case of 1988 (?), which I believe did usher in a lot of changes, including mandatory reporters.
I'm sorry. I understand the overwhelming anxiety of not being able to do enough to stop the pain in the world. I work in this field and see a lot of awfulness, but I truly believe that there is still more good than bad. It matters that you care - don't let it stop you from living a kind and happy life
When the wife said “train her” I was like what in the hell? When she finished by saying “train her for later so we can both serve him” I was straight up disgusted and angry
Lorraine Toussaint's Shambala Green was a wickedly-good character. She advocated for her clients without being underhanded. Tough, and unafraid to challenge the DA. A great recurring character.
I’m sobbing that the mother was an addict to cocaine. That she was twisted from long term abuse. Everyone says that it’s sick she’s sick. She is sick. You can see it so clearly. I relate so much to this episode. I survived miscarriages. Physical sexual emotional mental abuse from my abuser of 5 years. I almost married that person and had their child. I still am so twisted to this day and personally struggle with a cocaine addiction myself after my abuser introduced me to it and started doing it excessively with me. Even more than me. This episode breaks my heart a million times over.
This was in my recommended videos. I don’t know why, but here I am watching the whole episode 7 mins at a time.🤷🏻♀️ Oh and it’s a good one, disgusting and horrible, but a good episode.
This episode really rubbed me the wrong way. It was so dark! I spat out my drink when I first heard her say that. Despicable human being. Even a Life Sentence or something like 60 years to Life to lenient for people like that. 😡😤
This was exactly like the Lisa Steinberg case, may she R.I.P. I was young and remembered that the adoptive father was a NYC lawyer and it was the first time a family in that status was ever seen and brought to trial. The mother did get a deal.
Too young to remember the case, but I was doing a summer internship in NYC when the real guy got out - for a good week the Post and Daily News pretty much told people to kill him if they got the chance.
As much as I hate Carla for what she did to Didi and the boy, at least she had the courage to testify against her husband despite all the abuse she has gone through.
First off, these actors r absolutely incredible! Second, what these parents did to their children and what the father said about wanting the mom to “train” the daughter is absolutely unfathomable and nothing short of an abomination. I’m sorry I don’t care how unwell u r, if u hurt ur own children like that, it’s unforgivable and u deserve to rot in a cell
This episode has broken me, ESPECIALLY when you're a parent and your priority is to PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN at ALL COST.. but, it doesn't happen that way😥😭💔💔💔💔
this is one of those episodes that, after watching, you take a scalding shower, try to scrub your skin off, and either sit in a room by yourself listening to Metallica on blast to get the negative feeling out or watch Mr. Rogers Neighborhood with a gallon of ice cream to find the good in humanity again.
This was based on a real-life case. The real-life perpetrators got even less of a punishment for what they did to that poor child compared to what we see on this episode. The world is a cruel, cruel place.
They did a followup episode in Season 15, I think, called "Fixed" Carla had since repented and was better, she actually looked younger in that episode. Lowenstein was the same scumbag and was actually the victim. Check it out if you haven't yet.
Years later in a future episode, this case came up again, only that time it was Fontana and Green investigating. Lowenstein had been paroled on good behavior and someone ran him over in the street, breaking both his legs, I think. He still maintained his innocence in his daughter's death years earlier (this episode), and he was engaged to a young woman who admitted she was in grammar school when this case was first tried. To make matters worse, she was so infatuated with him, she even indicated that she believed Lowenstein didn't kill his daughter. Carla, now his ex-wife made a cameo appearance, none the worse for wear.
That "mother" was probably raised by abusers and savagely mistreated from early childhood. Battering and torturing her child was normal behavior and how a "good" mother raised her children. The husband intentionally chose to marry a woman who was emotionally broken -- he knew he couldn't get away with mistreating a normal person who had a strong sense of self. I suspect the mother chose to stay with her abusive husband because violence and pain were what she knew and trusted -- to her, it meant love and security.
I cried when I wrote that more than a year ago, and I'm sobbing now. I grew up with a mother who learned from HER mother to use her fists on her children instead of reason and calm words. The only thing that stopped Mom was when I turned 14 and began hitting her back. I've apologized to my sons over and over for inflicting that ugly "family legacy" on them. I deserve every bit of the terrible shame I feel for using violence instead of patience and kindness.
Those who abuse their spouse/lover/s.o. and/or children should be permanently removed from the gene pool, not to mention getting a taste of their own medicine. Case closed.
6:05. Robinette was standing up for only a few seconds, but he buttoned his jacket when he stood up and unbuttoned before he sat back down. I love that!
A federal law was passed in 1973 in the USA, against child abuse. Teachers are required to report even a suspicion of abuse to CPS, they may inform the administration, but cannot leave it with them to do the reporting.
Oh god, I remember the true life case this was based on. That poor woman was so beat down and broken by that man. She was a talented artistic person and he broke her into pieces and killed her daughter.
This is based on the the case of Steinberg and Nussbaum. But in the real-life case, it was the father who did it. Also, the teachers had never seen any bruises, so there was nothing to report.
