Lee Neck Sizing vs. Full Length, Which is Better?

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This is the follow up to my how to video about the lee Neck size only Die. I shot 4 groups, the first two were consecutively with new first followed by Neck only. I let the gun cool for 20 minutes and then started with Neck only, ending with new. Barrel heat was tested both ways for this test at a 100 yard range from a bipod and rear sand bag off a benchrest. Interesting results!
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1 ноя 2017

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Комментарии : 95

@Riqrob 4 года назад

Full length resize pulls the expander through the squeezed neck. this pulls the neck out of concentricity, lengthens the case so it has to be trimmed, and works the neck twice. Much better to neck size only and body-only size when necessary. No or less trimming also.

@timkourbo3196 4 года назад

This!☝️

@Strelnikov10 Год назад

@@timkourbo3196 I've been FL sizing without the expander ball, and then use the neck sizing die to true up the neck. This allows me the reliability in rough conditions that FL sizing provides and the excellent concentricity provided by neck sizing. I'm assuming this is a reason why Lee included both in my set, it's not one or the other.

@brettwing737 4 года назад

The difference is brand new brass is saami spec which is as small as that brass will ever be. When precision shooters talk about fl sizing they refer to bumping the shoulder back .002 which will be a lot tighter more tailored fit to your chamber. Try fire forming the brass then bumping the shoulder back 0.002 and compare I think you'll get better results.

@richardkut3976 6 месяцев назад

Excellent breakdown of comparing results, thanks.

@dgunnut6550 6 лет назад

Good info! Thanks for the series of new reloading videos. Looking forward to the next ones.

@WestDesertShooter 6 лет назад

Of course man! I try to keep a mixture of types of videos going all at once, I am due for a long range trip and would really like to get one done but it may not happen for a few more weeks. Hope to see some new stuff from your channel soon too!

@LoadsofBacon 6 лет назад

Awesome stuff dude!

@scottlawrence1826 2 года назад

Thanks for the experiment!

@chicowize 4 года назад

Nice groups. I’m getting closer. Thanks for sharing this info WDS

@godswatcher 6 лет назад

awesome vid and to the point. I am going to neck sizing and wanted to be sure.Thanks

@scottrussell6717 3 года назад

I tested same thing several years ago.. using my favorite recipe I closed my groups by half inch neck sizing only.. with the 3006.. 22250..and 270 I can shoot clover leafs by neck sizing.. and yes I have the pics to prove it

@Jeff_Seely 2 года назад

Neck sizing only is the best way I have found to optimize accuracy. I have tried many different 6.5 Creedmoor bullets of various grains and different powders and charges. And my gun is telling me the same thing every time. I tried to bump the shoulder back once and it was like a full resizing in my group accuracy.

@robsmith8304 5 лет назад

The multiple factors are why I love reloading. Each individual firearm has it's unique sweet spot that the reloader can find if they spend the time and money so that even a rifle that one person considers a dog can be a tack driver with the right load for that gun. I've seen one off serial numbers shoot the same loads in different groups. Firearms are like a woman, you have to find the sweet spot for each and ever one of them, and they are all beautiful in their own way.

@leeeng478 3 года назад

I bought prvi brass that was already sized. I went ahead and neck sized them with my Lee neck sizer just to fix any dings or distortions in the neck. I shot some nice groups with my 7x57 Barnes 120gr ttsx 0.77 with 47gr, 0.93 with 48.5 and 49 grains H414 at 100 yards. which for my cheapo Adams and Bennet barrel from Midwayusa was great! The only problem was chambering some of the rounds was very difficult but after firing no problem and the primers looked good even at max load.

@scottm2597 2 года назад

3 shot groups can be very misleading. I think you need multiple 5 shot groups to have confidence in particular results.

@milboltnut 2 года назад

if the case hasn't completely fire formed then neck sizing only is needed and not full length sizing. Once it's fire formed and doesn't chamber, then bumping back the case shoulder with a body die (the neck is not sized at all with a body die) and neck sizing with the collet die.

@ToadleyBrowne 6 лет назад

Very nice video WDS. It is great fun finding out the details that go into what works. Just for fun, take a high (hot/safe) reliable charge and fire it with 3 fired cases and 3 unfired new cases. Inspect the primer flow and look at how each primers shape differ after you pop the primers out. If the charge is hot enough the new cases primers after firing will look like mushrooms and the fired cases will look normal. Keep those videos rolling! Looks like you are getting a good number of new subscribers. Congrats.

@WestDesertShooter 6 лет назад

That sounds like an interesting test! the load Ive run so far is a fairly mild charge right about middle of my data and certainly seems to shoot well. I am messing with a heavier 243 bullet and different powder, maybe Ill bump into some pressures there and Find out if I see any differences! Good to hear from you dude!

@luvtahandload7948 6 лет назад

Toadley Browne If primers from the new cases look like mushrooms, it's because new cases have plenty of room in the chamber and after the firing pin whacks the cartridge all the way into the chamber, the primer detonates and rapidly building pressure blows the primer back to the boltface because the primer is always the first thing to start moving. It probably starts to flow, when, WHAM!, here comes the head of the case back to the boltface, consequently swaging the primer down. That's why flattened primers are not a reliable sign of too high pressure. Rather, they are a sign of pressure. The primers from the fired cases look normal because that initial case-stretch already took place previously. Flattened primers on properly sized fired cases are certainly a sign of too high pressure. That's my theory anyway.

@garrytalley8009 Год назад

The expander ball does not increase the length of the case the expansion of the case to the chamber and full-length sizing after that expansion lengthens the case. There are some neck sizing dies that have expander balls and not mandrels like Lee and they don't grow any more than those with a mandrel.

@pcbulletempire9872 6 лет назад

You are so right the variables or so massive that it's never ending you can change primer change powder change bullet change the size of your casing changer casing manufacturer unending just infinity and beyond

@WestDesertShooter 6 лет назад

Even taking the same ammunition out on separate days will shoot different, its either frustrating on bad days or great days when things come together!

@JimPepperTactical 6 лет назад

Jesus. Like you said, there's so many factors. It never ends! Awesome shooting brother, thanks for sharing.

@blackprince4074 3 года назад

Bit like Tomatoe or Tamato, if it does I for you go for it.

@frankashby6235 Год назад

thank you for this informative video and yes, it does beg another question. Did you Bump the Shoulder Back on the neck sizing only (w/o sizing the entire case)?

@DLN-ix6vf Год назад

to be fair and equal you should have used once fired brass for both the full size and neck size

@VitoBb1978 6 лет назад

WDS your video is on par with what iam testing. With my 242 Win using Federal’s Brass and Federal’s 210 GM LRM the brass does stretch 1-2 thousands after going through my RCBS full length resizing Die. What I have found so far is that the Lee Collet Neck Sizeing die did resize some of my Federal Brass tight enough to firmly hold a bullet, and some of the case did resize enough to firmly hold a bullet. So Iam going to give the die a few more turns down and retry again. Then develop the same loads using my Winchester Brass and see if the Lee Neck Sizeing resizing the Winchester necks tight enough to firmly hold a bullet. :)

@Banjoandguns 9 месяцев назад

From what I’ve learned 5 shot groups bullet holes vertically means to much powder sideways groups not enough you want a diamond pattern for best

@bobvandiest8201 4 года назад

Where is the link to the next video? You mentioned a 3 part series. I'm new to reloading and would like to see what you have next. Thank you.

@EagleEyeShooting 6 лет назад

Got a lot of great info, Thanks for sharing! A lot of people recommend just neck sizing im bolt action and ur results show. But there isnt much info on results in neck turning. Can you hit on this subject? would like to get your opinion if its needed other than forming brass and does it improve accuracy?

@WestDesertShooter 6 лет назад

I would love to but unfortunately i dont have a neck turning tool so I really dont know. Vaughn Precision does a great video on neck turning or GianniG also does a prepping lapua 223 cases where he neck turns and his gun is a laser! wish I knew man. Thanks!

@jjthefed 2 года назад

Every bottleneck reloader needs a neck sizer for cleaning up the mess that you get when you buy virgin brass with dinged up case mouths.

@bobmedic3214 3 года назад

Don’t compare once fired brass with new brass and try to compare neck sizing vs full length. Only test one variable at a time..

@TheReloaderDude 6 лет назад

Another excellent video. I have found that when I reload .223 with the Lee kit I get much better groupings when I full length resize and the neck resize both. When I full resize or neck size only the groups widen out. When I do both together the groups shrink up. TRD

@WestDesertShooter 6 лет назад

That was going to be another test in a future video trying both and watching what happens. When you neck sized your 223 brass were you using a bolt action or semi auto?

@jjthefed 2 года назад

For more info on neck sizing only check out Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading 4th edition Volume 1- 1991 page 41.

@TheCFN007 6 лет назад

Awesome video, just too throw one more thing into the mix , how about you shoot one group with the neck size only, the shoot full length sized group too see the difference. Thanks, keep these great video's coming

@WestDesertShooter 6 лет назад

I did do that! and I shot both twice the first time I shot full length first then the second time I shot Neck only first. Thanks man

@2dResq 6 лет назад

BTW 308 especially Lake City 7.62 NATO M118 Special Ball which is actually match cases and annealed cases make beautiful 243, 260 Remington and 7mm-08 cases

@2dResq 6 лет назад

The first thing I do before shooting groups for accuracy is to fire 5 to 10 rounds before shooting loads for accuracy. This preconditions the bore by removing any solvents,oils and excess CLP used to clean the bore and condition it. In high power rifle competition most matches are 80 rounds for score plus 8 rounds through the 4 stages of the match. Full size vs neck size? depends on your head space in itself is another problem such as reduced number of reloads percase due to excursive head space even though it's within go and no-go tolerances. I use neck size neck size with just a hint of full size to enable ease of closing the bold. And the list goes on and on!

@WestDesertShooter 6 лет назад

So one thing I tried to do here was see how each performed at cold bore and each with a warm barrel. For both the neck size shot better. Cementing the idea that it might be true for this rifle. I don’t clean my barrel between trips so I’m not usually worried about chemicals in the bore. But before I do any load development work I’ll usually shoot a group with some known good shooting ammo to get it up and Shooting good as well as checking zero and even warming up myself as a shooter

@250-25x 6 лет назад

Hey WDS, I wanted to throw another factor into your mix! Have you tried barrel tuning yet? I strayed for a year or so into the crazy world of small bore shooting and found I was pretty good at building barrel tuners for the little guns..... I took the science" to my reloading bench to shrink the sizes of my 20" AR, DMR. Basically, you can take a good gun and make it REALLY good.....Take a great shooter and make it STUPIDLY accurate....but you cannot take a dog and get it sub MOA..... My guns are real close to what you shoot, but I can't get out past 700 yds here in PA. Something to look into... Have fun dude.... G.

@Thorsaxe777 6 лет назад

I know you don't have a machine, Try annealing your brass. I feel that once the brass is work hardened to a degree your accuracy will suffer, I have found this to happen around the fourth reloading. annealing will keep the neck tension consistent and the brass will still have its elasticity Making it pliable when fired. I have used the Lee Dies before, They are also useful for cast bullet loadings in the .303 British, firing that round is almost always tough on brass and case head separation is soon to follow, Cast bullets aid in getting more bang out of your brass and shooting economy. Good video Dude. Keep up the good work. Reloaders have a wide area to explore and that is exciting, Fun and educational. I see that keep a log book of your handcrafted ammo for review and reference. Good shooting to Ya, Dave.

@WestDesertShooter 6 лет назад

Annealing is a process that I would like to have a machine to do. I bought a bulk amount of 243 (100 pieces) and I'm being very careful to keep track of how many times each has been fired to cycle through all the brass before shooting it another time which will help me keep neck tension consistent as the brass work hardens. I just dont want to over anneal my brass and ruin it due to inexperience but I would like to learn!

@maj.kamper9314 4 года назад

Just getting into reloading and as I was depriming my 5.56 lake city brass I noticed that the neck didn’t seem to make full contact completely around the neck on my full length die. They looked still fine, but I don’t know if this is common. I would rub the lee case lube by hand around the case and noticed on the same spot on the case neck it would leave the case lube untouched or would just pile up there after being resized and deprimed

@GianniG55 6 лет назад

Hey buddy hope you’re good, nice video can you video your shooting so we the fans can be there with you when your testing ( no pressure lol ) I say this so we can see what goes on between shooter and ammo , gives a better understanding I think you know how particular I am lol like I said no pressure, look forward to the results cheers G.

@WestDesertShooter 6 лет назад

Gianni I am good! you got me motivated to get this one out sooner and i have another video for tomorrow as well so thanks! I understand you might want to see me shooting to watch if im shooting consistently between groups, however my video editor limits my uploads to 15 minutes and showing me shooting would take some time and I would much rather keep the videos quick and to the point of what my results are. My shooting trips and shooting long range show me shooting but for reloading tests i usually like to keep them like this. I really enjoy watching your videos with in depth looks at the whole trip but for what i am trying to share i just choose to not show it

@GianniG55 6 лет назад

West Desert Shooter No worries bud ,what did you think to my follow on video with the iPhone scope cam I managed to get some respectable clear footage I think?

@WestDesertShooter 6 лет назад

Yeah that was a great looking setup! and definitely gives people a great idea of what its like to get behind a gun at long range. a great idea for a scope cam is to show hold offs for high wind so people get a better idea how much wind can really throw off a shot. the only downside i see with your cam is you cant lay behind the gun normally unless you move the scope forward.... it made a great video!

@GianniG55 6 лет назад

West Desert Shooter That’s not a bad idea you know I have a rifle in mind that would show how wind effects shot placement because the round is so lite bet you can guess which one that is? As for bigger bullets shooting at long range probably best to shoot over muddy or sandy ground so you can see where the shots are falling. Definitely will be working on that video lol 😂

@lovetoflylovetofly3843 6 лет назад

Neck tension has alot to do with that consistency too. Good video.

@WestDesertShooter 6 лет назад

I definitely think the neck sizer gives better neck tension over the FL die, i might try a group with full length and neck size to see if neck tension is what gave the boost in accuracy

@ceez33167 4 года назад

is your barrel custom or factory? i asked because i wonder if one process is better for one than the other... I'm new to precision reloading so i really appreciate any info. thanks

@tiputipu777 3 года назад

Having a light barrel is a lousy excuse to shoot only 3 rounds. I had a t3x 308 lite, and it shot 0.5-0.6moa groups at 300 meters with 10 shot groups. If your barrel is quality, barrel heating is a non issue regarding accuracy. I did neck sizing with my tikka, now I do only full length with my trg. With my trg and full sized reloads I get pretty consistent 0.2-0.4moa 5 round groups at 100 meters. I switched to full length for one simple reason: neck sized cases always feel like they are going to be just a tad tight. Also have 30 rounds left over of my tikka reloads after selling my rifle. And of course they dont fit into my trg. Waiting on a bullet puller so I can get the cartridges apart and at least use the bullets and powder, maybe full size the cases as well. Since they were loaded in sako brass and now I mainly use lapua, probably will just sell the brass.

@chuckfinley3152 5 лет назад

There is always that one piece of brass that rolls off the table into grass etc and just vanishes ha ha

@edd1e22 5 лет назад

Did you ever do the 2nd part? I looked through your videos and couldn't find anything

@johnh4957 2 года назад

I can't find 2nd part either, guess he went to other projects,darn

@lorenkrug 6 лет назад

In a bolt gun only, I’ve never had a problem with neck sized brass when hunting. Again I’m hunting not going to battle. If I do ever get a jam all I’d say is damn and than fix it!

@imohammed2 5 лет назад

until the day you got a angry moma bear ripping out your guts

@andyprairiedog4829 3 года назад

@Tophet1 4 года назад

Are you going to measure headspace as well ?

@juanherrera2672 2 года назад

So are you still neck sizing only? Why ? Why not ? nice videos on this not much on the collet dies

@claverton 5 лет назад

It is likely that the very small data sample size (ie 3 shots for each situation) would mean that the results would be far from being anywhere statistically significant so basically meaningless. Only way to correct this would be to increase the sample size and run the results through a very basic stats package to test for statistical significance. But food for thought and interesting non the less

@6h471 5 лет назад

3 shots isn't a group. For sighting in purposes yes, but not for accuracy comparisons.

@captainpegs0740 3 года назад

During FL were you properly only pushing the shoulders back 0.002?

@goingtothefifty 4 года назад

For those who says full size is better, give us your fired case vs full size dimensions.

@1shotbarbeque881 6 лет назад

Does the Lee collet size bump the shoulder back or can it .. or what's the best way to size the neck like this and bump the shoulder back on fire formed cases

@WestDesertShooter 6 лет назад

It does not touch the shoulder, however the Redding body dies are a great way to bump the shoulder back then neck only size after and you will get even neck tension and get your headspace you’re after!

@juliusjames5577 2 года назад

Cliffhanger!

@vsalukir7019 4 года назад

Two problems with this video. Random variation could give you the same results. I would want to see at least ten rounds of each before concluding anything. Also you introduced two simultaneous variables. You full length resized new brass and you neck sized previously fired brass. How do you know the difference is not due to the new and the fired difference? I'm inclined to agree that the Lee collett die will produce brass with less runout and that will lead to greater accuracy. But I don't think that is the case with all neck sizing dies. So there is actually a third unknown - collett versus non collett neck resizing. So you could easily have some neck sizing dies that work worse than some full length dies. I think you have shown that your results are consistent with other people that have used the Lee collett die. But I would not generalize beyond that.

@csteelerx1 6 лет назад

I saw the same thing with my Tikka

@WestDesertShooter 6 лет назад

Awesome, do you use a shoulder body die to push the shoulders back after a few firings? if so what brand

@scarter176 2 года назад

Wonder why EC is advising full length resize ?

@donc5423 3 года назад

Those groups look smaller to me than what you stated. Were you measuring correctly? I thought you measured out side to outside and then subtract the bullet diameter, which gives you a precise center to center. I believe that a neck size always works best on a brass that is once fired and fits the chamber of a specific rifle more precisely. Neck sizing a brand new brass should not be as accurate as once fired and neck sized, specially if you are using a collet die. Just my opinion.

@Buddyspike11 6 лет назад

That’s strange because the opposite is true with my Browning rifle I get more accuracy when I Full length resize I’m guessing this is going to have a lot of variables to it.

@WestDesertShooter 6 лет назад

That is interesting! like i tried to convey in the video, on this specific test it seemed to help. I could likely get different results just switching brass back to the federal brass. Or in your case, simply switching guns. does your gun still function with neck size only?

@Buddyspike11 6 лет назад

West Desert Shooter it still Functions but you can feel the difference when I run the bolt in cases that’s only been next sized vs full length resized.

@matthewbeaver5026 4 года назад

Well all of what you said you need to do is what I came here to see.....

@northman77 3 года назад

I dont think one is better than the other! For x gun neck sizing can be better and for y gun full sizing will be the way to go. It depends!

@csteelerx1 6 лет назад

No I didn't just bumped it with the full length die

@sniperjoe 3 года назад

These groups are very bad? I would scrap all of these and work some seating depths.. most my guns shoot .25 or better.

@58harwood 4 года назад

“Hybrid 100” sucks for starters. Try it with H4895 or even better, H4350!

@reddawng43x91 2 года назад

Or even better, imr 4350!

@l.p.5259 5 лет назад

Hard to beat a Lee die! Over looked most of the time bc of the cheap price... but they won’t even buy a box for their die that ain’t made in ‘merica’ !!!!

@The762nato 6 лет назад

Sorry but the inside neck expander does not cause a case to grow , simply put, you do not get metal deformation growth in that manner, due to returning the inside of the neck to the correct size in the radial direction yes brass tubing changes length , it will do it even if you neck size , no plus or minus here. One problem is the inside of the case needs to be lubricated , I've used a nylon brush with RCBS Lube 2 for over 40 years and the expander pulls out with virtually no resistance , cases are then tumbled in Lortone rock tumbler with stainless steel using water and dish washing liquid to remove all carbon and lube also developed back in the mid 80's. What you missing and going off in the wrong direction with your premise is why DO you FL cases and you have totally missed the point . That issue is rifle damage resulting from galled lugs to broken extractors and destroyed bolts ! I'm a gunsmith and competitive shooter since the early 80's . Sorry but neck sizing is NOT going to make any different in your ability to shoot a deer at 200 yards or a target at 1000. Sticking a case in the chamber will end most hunts and watching bozo's here in NZ run cleaning rods at; NRA shoots; to get cases out on the firing line is a national embarrassment.

@avidhuntr 6 лет назад

MRMAX good info, tried neck sizing for my .243 X-bolt, and found no difference in accuracy at all. What I did find is the neck sized brass didn't chamber as well as the full length sized brass. Both lots of rounds that were reloaded were Hornady once fired brass, from the .243 X-bolt and both had the same lot number on the boxes. These were previously Hornady American Whitetail 100 gr. Interlocks I believe. I'm a full length sizer now only, all my rounds are for deer, black bear and coyote. Again great info. Shoot straight and shoot a lot.