I see a few people commenting on this video, pointing out that Kain was never really angry or jealous at Raziel for evolving before him. Yes, I agree completely and I'm fully aware of this! As a matter of fact, I've mentioned it before a few times in previous LOK videos. This is also why I used the word "supposedly" at 17:10. I just didn't think I'd have to spell it out again here, but I see now that perhaps I should have clarified that point 😂. Anyway, with this video, I wanted to convey the story as if it was from Raziel's perspective and explain why he thought Kain sentenced him to abyss. At the time, Raziel is under the impression that by entering the state of change prior to Kain, he has committed an act of transgression and blasphemy against him, when in fact Kain didn't care and knew that he had to execute Raziel in order to create a being of free will, exempt from the wheel of fate.
I thought that point was made pretty damn clear in this video lol 🤷♂️… but let it be known hereto and henceforth! NEVER underestimate your fellow man’s capacity for indelible stupidity
I'm convinced that the reason why Kain wasn't able to turn living humans into vampires, the way Janos and Vorador did, was because Kain himself was turned using necromancy by Mortanius.
@@tuckernutter It is possible. Remember the original narrative featured a Priestess and a cult that worshipped Kain. Willingly offering sacrifices to him would increase their ranks very quickly.
@@tuckernutter If Kain wasn't able to do it, then it's very likely Raziel and the others couldn't either. Given that Kain's vampires saw themselves as rulers, then I assume they didn't go around raising each human they killed. A lot of thought had to go into carefully choosing who was deserving of the gift. Perhaps each clan would round up the corpses of those they deemed worthy, and then Kain would host a massive ceremony to raise all of them. At least that's how I imagine it would work using necromancy.
I have often thought the song by Breaking Benjamin, "I will not bow" would be great along side a video of soul reaver. Not to mention, the song it self, at times, sounds similar to the game music. I would be curious to hear yours and anyone else's thoughts on this after listening to the song
@@Durdon23 buttrock really has no place in Soul Reaver. Raziel wouldn't need to state his unbreakable nature. It is displayed in his being. The only thing that can kill Raziel is Raziel.
It wasn't that Kain was angered by Raziel's evolution but rather because that was the sign he was waiting for to begin his real gambit against fate. He knew what Raziel would become and what he had been. It was his only foil to the wheel, to introduce Raziel as an entity free of it.
This is what was intended by Amy later. However in the original cut ending you kill all the vampires with a sun device. It's funny if you watch a cutscenes compilation kain gets gradually less Darth Palpatine as the games go on 😁
Uh actually kain killed raziel because of a "prophecy"- which was a manipulation via the giant tentacle monster only seen in the spirit world- trying to edge on raziel to kill kain- but raziel saw through the bullshit and became the soul reaver- was epic on all fronts.
@@ceruleansunrise8261 Still not jealousy. In the original script, the entire thing is Kain's grandiose and bombastic way of committing suicide. As he explains in the Chronoplast - free will is an illusion, and death apparently is not in the cards for him, so he's screwed unless he has a third, immune to destiny party to dupe into to do it for him. Few have the stamina for eternity and you could probably make a case for him low key conceding to Ariel that he fucked up, if the line about his guilty conscience at the pillars is anything to go by. Hell, dialogue pre-recorded for the original script made before the cuts, literally has Kain, Raziel and Ariel in the same room, both of them for once agreeing a egging Raziel to kill Kain, lmao.
After finally understanding the complex web that makes up the story. I felt a little bad for Kain. having knowledge of what will happen and being in this constant loop until his metaphorical coin finally lands on its edge. To see Raziel with his wings and almost instantly knowing what has to happen..at least in the end Raziel was still his right hand.
Yeah, especially when you see the shock on Kain's face in the opening cutscene when Raziel first reveals his wings. That shocked face quickly turns grim as Kain understands the time has come to make his gambit.
@@strictlyfantasy it's insane how so many small details early on in the game really come to light after you've fully understood the story. The meeting at the pillars is still my favorite scene! So much information is laid out before the player...we just didn't know haha anyway, absolutely love the videos! A pleasant surprise anytime they drop 🦇
Also how Raziel wasn't a hypocrite. How in the end he chose integrity over self preservation and going into the sword knowing that this was his role to save Nosgoth.
I agree we should get a prequel for this game series was epic an like a mature whisky all of them sit in my gaming library and play them regular and enjoy them just like the day of release
After Defiance, I've always looked at the intro to Soul Reaver differently. His response to Raziel's evolution wasn't one of jealousy but the actions of a man who knew the time to challenge fate had arrived, and you can see in Kain's face before he tells the vampires to "cast him in" that it's not an easy thing for Kain. Was it intentional? Unlikely, I doubt they had planned the series that far (especially looking at the development of Soul Reaver) but it fits so well now that I think they must have looked back at this intro while crafting the rest of the series.
You're right. It probably wasn't intentional given all the extra content they had to cut before Soul Reaver 1 was released. However, I love how they depicted Kain's facial expressions in the opening cutscene to the point where you can look at it retroactively and see that maybe this is not the face of a vampire who is filled with jealousy and rage but one with self doubt at the prospect of executing his favourite "son". It's like he's questioning himself whether or not he's doing the right thing but hardens his heart and goes through with it anyway because in the end what choice did he really have.
I'm pretty sure it was intentional. Main knew what was coming because of the time streaming devices. All the nuance was surely not planned out, but pretending jealousy to motivate Raziel's outrage and vengeance sounds easily plausible. Why else have the Famously sadistic Kain grimace when executing a traitor? Also remember Kain's reaction when the Reaver broke? That whole conversation was from someone with a few steps planned ahead. :)
@@strictlyfantasy If Amy Hennig ain't on board who basically wrote this entire thing you can rest assured it will be epic garbage. She is the best of the best for a reason. Mark my words. If Amy Hennig is not on board RUNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In Melchiah's video, we saw how he and his children behaved more like zombies than vampires... looking at this vampirism through necromancy, it feels like all vampires in Kain's empire are like zombies, or like the Phyrexians in the Magic: the Gathering series, where every person they slay ends up added to their ranks.
If you look at it from the humans perspective it's pretty nightmarish. One single vampire left in the world managed to raise an army of them and everyone they sent to kill the vampires, became one of them. It really is like a zombie apocalypse but if the zombies were not mondless, animalistic hoardes but thinking, intelligent creatures who could think and strategize and build structures and fight like a human.
How does necromancy give you that view over the original method of turning one into a vampire? Necromancy is much more complicated than merely biting someone.
And thusly, by a stroke of a button, my heart was set in a ablaze of white-hot fire by the lore of Raziel. Rekindled memories of ages past, succumbed to the ires of time. Thought forgotten but lies in wait. But yet they lived. I salute you, lore master.
Kain was not MAD that Raziel evolved before him. Soul reaver was being narrarated by raziel, during a time when he knew nothing and only wanted to kill kain. Kain could already fly since Blood omen 1. Rahab was the only one that evolved before him. Kain wasn't mad at all, in his mind he was saying "FINALLY, took him long enough". Kain was waiting for the wings to appear then knew what he had to do from there. He'd been looking at thousands and thousands of timelines all leading to no life on nosgoth and him dying of thirst. (Elder god wasn't reincarnating souls, he was a parasite who was unleashed the moment the pillars fell. It grows over time because its just eating all the souls (life) on nosgoth. Eventually all life would end) Then Kain realized it was having 2 soul reavers in the same time period that allowed him to make COMPLETELY NEW paths, then he made his real plan.
A human Raziel game would be sweet as, gosh the legacy of Kain games blew my 19 year old mind in 1999 when soul reaver came out, and I absolutely love and proudly own the original Blood omen, this series inspired my long art career doing Fantasy Art, I sincerely hope by the Elder gods we get a new Legacy of Kain game before another Decade passes us by, absolutely fantastic video! Love your deep dives into anything legacy of Kain, take care till the next one 😎
Let's not forget, as driven as they were by their self-righteous beliefs, the original sarafain were only able to gain an advantage over the most powerful vampires due to moebius' anti-vampire staff. True, they were formidable warriors who, no doubt could easily handle newly turned fledglings by themselves, needed the staff of moebius to deal with the likes of Janos Audron. They were nothing short of cowardly bullies, made worse by the fact they used religious fervour as a cloak of legitimacy.
A remake of legacy of kain would be huge. Instant success. I've had so many ideas of how a new installment can go forward. And your idea is awesome it goes with what I have in mind. Great minds think alike
I would love to see a prequel during the Empire's days and see Raziel, his brothers and all the clans in their glory days but alas this will never happen now. This and a Vorador game would make excellent spin offs.
@@Zentz29 What's the point of bringing it back when none of the original people who worked on the games? Without the original writers, voices actors etc etc. I'm afraid it will flop badly should it ever return.
@@georgehouliaras7239 Yeah, when I first saw and signed the petition to bring it back I was instantly worried about stuff like that. I don't know anything about the staff and whatnot that they are going to use though
Human Raziel: irredeemable asshole Undead Raziel: vampiric asshole Ghoul Raziel: noble soul He literally had to become undead twice to become a good person lol
To be perfectly honest, he was still the same "vampiric asshole" until his final moments. Only his final sacrifice was truly noble. His existence as a wraith was first a force of pure vengeance, then cluelessly bouncing around being manipulated by everyone and their pets. He was entirely self-serving and taking refuge in a shroud of righteousness, but in the end he was in it for himself, no noble goals, first it was kill Kian, then figure out what the hell is going on, then get the hell out of dodge out of the Reaver's way. Only in his final moments did he commit to a truly selfless and noble act.
Beautiful use of Elden Ring as a placeholder for a fleshed-out backstory of lieutenant-era Raziel, and I love how you went ahead and lent your voice to an unvoiced character (all the while managing to sound like an official character from the games). Your best video yet. Keep the fire of this series burning for us, until the legacy is revived!
I think Raziel's story is so powerful because it highlights not only the freedom but also the pain and the pitfalls that come with genuine choice. Raziel has free will but that means he has to be an island. He can never fully trust or put his faith in any one faction and he has to own his many many mistakes on his way to discovering the truth. It also highlights the limitations of free will as at the end of the series Raziel learns enough to know that through a combination of fate and his own actions up to that point his choices really do come down to one horrific fate. It's still a fate of his own choosing in the end but given his other option at that point it wasn't much of a choice at all in the end. I remember reading Ursula le Guin's Earthsea series. The main character Ged outlines that when you are young there are so many roads and branching paths one can take that it seems confusing and overwhelming. However over time your choices interact with the world around you to the point where your options narrow until there is only one path and one thing you MUST do. In life that might be the career you dedicate yourself to or for the less fortunate among us it might be the cause or the people you end up sacrificing your life or your future to protect. At the end of the day you get one shot at life and that is both the beauty and the harshness of it.
4:20 i just gotta say this, that art piece of Kane, Raziel and the other clan leaders doing their own "last supper" scenario with the soul reaver on the table is hilarious and poetic irony given vampiric nature and the nature of the soul reaver. Genius!
Raziel’s relationship with his brothers Turel: Very close and he got along with Raziel until he and Dumah threw him into the Abyss under Kain’s orders without hesitation. Dumah: Very close as well and Raziel called him a proud warrior in life, They enjoy sparring and they got along as well until he and Turel threw him into the Abyss under Kain’s orders without hesitation too. Rahab: Raziel and Rahab’s brotherhood relationship is fine and they got along. Zephon: Bad blood and they don’t get along because Zephon is a spineless coward. Melchiah: Raziel felt very sorry for his younger brother because of his gift.
I always thought Kain "killed" Raziel because he knew using the time streaming chambers the Wraith Raziel would become, would be after he had wings and saw Raziel's wings growing as the trigger for Kain's plan to subvert the Hyldan to begin.
OH wow...I remember reading that comic since I was such a huge fan of the Legacy of Kain series...sadly it got lost over the years and I wish I still had it.
I'm always amaxed at how well they fleshed out Raziel's previous personality and that of the lieutenants purely through dialogue after the fact, even when the Raziel we're introduced to after his fall is quite different.
Great video. Of all the eras of Nosgoth, the one I want to explore the most is after Kain condemned the Pillars and raised up the clans. The empire-building, the court intrigues, the war with humanity, and even their final victory and how the vampires enjoyed the spoils of domination. I think it is a great shame that we don't see more of this period, from Kain refusing the sacrifice to Raziel's execution. I'm not sure how this period of time would be best explored, either as a game, a book or something else, but this period is by far my most favorite to speculate about.
I've always wanted to know the difference between Kain's necromantic vampires and the earlier vampires as sired from the Ancients. Was death a part of the process before Kain's time? It would seem not, if human Pillar Guardians had to be killed to turn them into vampires they they would get replaced as Guardians in becoming vampires (Kain was exempt from this technicality because the system was already broken by Nupraptor before Kain died). Perhaps in the earlier days vampirism was spread more like a blood infection as in other vampire media and the ignorant humans mentioned in SR1's manual _used_ to be correct until the rise of 'necromantic' vampires.
Yes. Siring vampires in the eras of Janos and Vorador was very different to the method Kain used to create his armies in the pre-Soul Reaver time. The original turning of living humans into vampires was likely similar to how it is depicted in traditional vampire media. It seems using Necromancy to raise vampires only took place after Kain was raised by Mortanius. Once Kain discovered he couldn't create vampires in the traditional way, Kain likely took a page out of Mortanius' book and came up with this new method by leaning more into snaring souls from the underworld.
I always had interpreted that line from the manual as more like a correction of human misinformation. Instead of saying that the souls of the dead are reanimated into corpses, more like vampires are corruptions of the soul not of blood. But more official clarification is always welcomed
The Ancients sired humans into vampires by sharing with them the Curse of the Hylden, as the Ancients are not vampires, the curse itself is vampirism: the bloodthyrst, the inmortality and sterility. Kain's vampirism resided in the cursed heart of darkness, maybe that's why every lieutenant raised was weaker than the last, as the power of the heart (lol) was supposed to instill un-life to just one corpse: his. That would explain why the vampire armies degenerated in the monster of SR1, as they are mere zombies with the Curse of the Hylden in them. Unable to die and mutated by the dark magic. Maybe even the Hylden didn't know what would happen after centuries of the curse, as I take it they likely thought the Ancients would commit suicide as a whole rather than be separated of their god. Edit: Now that I think about, they could very well pass the curse by having humans drink their cursed blood or eat their cursed flesh, so.... yeah.
Yeah I think it was likely done through biting but i would speculate that it was more likely that the vampire had to bite the human and drain it almost completely of its human blood and then replacing the humans blood with vampire blood otherwise kain wouldn't have needed vorador to create vampires if it was done through a simple bite. And maybe only an an ancient vampire could perform this process.
I've always thought that original vamps could breed regularly like humans but they lost that at the same time they received the blood curse. I might have missed it but is their ever explicit detail about voradors creation? Could he have a "heart of darkness" or other vamp body part implant that transferred the abilities and blood curse?
I always thought of it as, kain was never angry with Raziel about evolving earlier, it was simply that he had already interacted with the time streaming device and knew what Raziel was ' destined' to become. The wings were an affirmation of this and naturally angered one who was so bent on breaking free from the wheel. But without his favourite son going into the abyss, his plan for subverting destiny could not be played out. Essentially, Raziels revelation of his wings was like a kick to kains balls saying " This is where it starts". I was 10 years old when I played soul reaver, I'm now 31 so I could be misremembering things but so far as i can remember; Kains words were " when I first stole into this chamber, centuries ago" Centuries ago is a broad term and doesn't really tell us when Kain first encountered the chamber. That makes it hard to imagine what kind of foreknowledge he had during raziels lifetime.
I just binge watched your whole Legacy of Kain series. These were incredible. Your deep love and passion for this series is evident in the care and time you put into your videos. It’s such a challenge to find those who still remember, let alone played these fantastic games. With the re-release of classics like chrono cross, dark alliance 1 and 2, and bloodrayne 1 and 2 I have a small amount of hope for this series as well as legend of lagoon and legend of legaia 1 and 2. I hope you’ll continue posting, because I’ll be there to witness your impressive content.
Interesting! I always thought Kain easily turned humans into Vampires because he had Janos Audron's (Elder Vamp) heart, which had the ability to restore Vampiric un-life and he was somehow able to project its powers.
They need to make another game and this is exactly where they need to start. Raziel's awakening, building Kain’s Empire and ending with the intro of Soul Reaver.
Raziel seemed to have some fondness for Melchiah, as he was most impacted by his death. I wonder if it was that he truly cared for the youngest/weakest sibling more than he cared to admit?
I've often wondered about the dynamics between the brothers and the clans during the 'Golden Age' of their kind. This video really helped put together what those relationships and dynamics might have been like. I really enjoyed how you highlighted the smaller domestic and petty dealings between clans and brothers, and also the more important high stakes political maneuvering that must have been present at all times. I completely agree that it would be a FASCINATING addition to the franchise to check out how Kain's empire rose to glory, through a Golden Era, and then to a time of decadence, decay, in-fighting and power struggles.
This video also provided a rather gut-wrenching 'fridge horror' realization. When Rahab came out as semi-acquatic, then there must have been nothing but pride for him exhibited by Kain. I'm imagining not only special territories and favours but also much feasting and celebrations to congratulate Rahab and his clan. The rest of the brothers (and the clans) must have been burning with jealousy, lol. Raziel must have expected exactly the same reception. Special territories, favours, missions, congratulations and feasts. Which makes it all the more gut-wrenching to watch that happy, proud moment turn into blood and agony.
15 plus years after the last game and we're still trying to piece the puzzle pieces in Amy's universe together. It was one hell of a ride for those lucky enough to experience it.
One thing I've always been curious about. It's said rahab constantly submerged himself in water bracing the pain in an effort to guide his transformation to give himself the gift that he felt would give him the most attention. He proved this method worked as he indeed gained the ability to swim. Do you think the others guided their gifts too? And if not which gifts do you think they would of guided themselves to have.
Hey SF. I'll take this chance that you just uploaded the video to tell you that I love your content and specially the LoK stuff. Keep up the good work, buddy!
Man im in love with this channel. I was absolutely spellbound by SR1 when I first put it in the PlayStation in 1999 as a child. Absolutely entranced by its prose, voice acting, and Shakespearean dialogue. The story was just so intriguing and engrossing. To this day I have not had an experience a the video game that resonated with me as much as Soul Reaver 1. I remember searching for that comic for years and finally finding it on eBay in my twenties. Completely stoked that they dropped the sequel graphic novel on Kickstarter recently which exploded past itys goal. Although the series has been dormant since the cancellation of Dead Sun and the underwhelming Nosgoth multiplayer game, It seems it still holds a place in the fan's hearts and cultural zeitgeist. Channels like these are such a treat to immerse myself in the lore again. Much obliged
I love the theory, that the Kain who throws Raziel into the Abyss is either the future Kain who already knows about wraith Raziel, or he is the Kain from this period of time who was advised by a timetraveling future Kain, to do this since Kain is no stranger to timetravel, he would understand why a future version of him comes and asks to throw his first born son into the abyss, he also probably already has aspirations to cure Nosgoth, seeing how the planet is at the end of its life
Its an interesting thought but the only entity shown to be a be to be in its own presence from different time periods is the Reaver (with Raziel's soul eventually being imprisoned in the blade) and could be the reason it can induce paradoxes. I believe that Kain got his foreknowledge by viewing the future from the Oracle Caves and, later on, directly traveling to different ages to piece together the conspiracy. Its not entirely clear if there is a hard rule preventing two Kains from being in the same place or not but it never occurred as far as I recall. The exception to everything I just said though is Raziel meeting his human self. But even though they share the same soul (having been recalled from the underworld) they are fundamentally two different people who do not share memories. Idk. Soul Reaver is an incredible series but there are minor gaps in its narrative as to how events u folded and why that one has to overlook to truly enjoy the series. Amy Hennig is a brilliant worldbuilder but its obvious that the story was built up as she went along. All in all, it came together extremely well. If LoK and SR are ever remade those gaps can be fixed properly.
I love how when you come back to the opening scene after the later games it gives that little pause kain does before ordering raziel cast in more context. I imagine kain sitting there for a moment realising he is about to damn his favourite son to this but it's all for the greater good.
I view kains betrayal as him knowing everything from hopping through time and whatnot. When he saw that Raziel evolved wings he knew what had to be done. That casting Raziel into the abyss would set into motion the events that would eventually allow Kain to succeed his plans. The lieutenants took kain's actions as a way to be rid of raziel's clan. So they went on a murder spree. That being said, I am not heavily familiar with the lore, never having played soul reaver 2. Just blood omen, soul reaver 1, and defiance.
Wraith Raziel saw that souls are hunted and consumed in the spectral plane by the lifeforms there, if not the Elder God. Human Raziel died the same day Vorador attacked the circle, which led to the pillars selecting new Guardians at birth, including Ariel, who died as an adult which led to Kain's birth and selection as a pillar guardian and he died when he was 30yo, so Raziel and the other Sarafan were dead for at least 50 years. It's highly unlikely Raziel's original human soul survived in the spectral realm for 50 years.
I thought Kain punished Raziel not because he evolved first, but because he'd become the image Kain grew to fear from the depictions in the catacombs. Kain's actions weren't a punishment as much as a means to turn the wheel of fate so to speak. Merely pushing the gas pedal.
The opening of Defiance makes it clear that Kain never hated Raziel, never feared him, never was jealous. Taken with the ending of SR1 where Kain says he looked through time to see the various futures possible we can infer that when Raziel entered his metamorphosis stage Kain knew that the time was drawing nigh. He had to have seen Wraith Raziel and known that one, very slim, possible future, involved Kain setting the world right with the help of Raziel. When his firstborn son showed off his wings Kain was like "Okay. This is it. This is the moment that I have been waiting for". You can even see a flicker of doubt cross Kain's face before giving the order to throw Raziel in. "Given the choice whether to rule a corrupt and failing empire, or to challenge the fates for another throw- a better throw against one's destiny; what was a king to do?"
The Elder God uses those murals to convince Raziel that Kain is a corrupted despot instead of an intelligent planner. According to the Elder God, Kain and Raziel are fated to fight, with only one of them surviving and creating the future, but none of it was true. Kain changes fate.
Only at first did I think that Kain had Raziel executed out of jealousy, but as the game went on, I was convinced that Kain - having an awareness of the manipulation of time and fates, realized that Raziel was the third option he was searching for to break the double jeopardy that was his life.
I'd love to read a book (or multiple) from Amy Hennig, charting the ascension of the Clans. Also covering their fall from grace. How each Lieutenant (aside from Raziel) ended up where they did.
Legacy of Kain -lore is to me most interesting there is. I love how much there is to the story and twists to each character. I love this series. Also Medievil was one of my first games that I loved and I have still my ps1 -copy. Anyway, there is something special about already dead characters that come beyond grave to fuck shit up, that is so awesome! Raziel, Sir Daniel Fortesque, Alucard (Castlevania - SotN) and the chosen undead in Dark Souls. All great games! Sori paska englanti. Finnish guy here. Love your channel, KEEP IT UP!
Defiance 2, where you could summon out raziel, or imbue yourself with his essence to change move/skill set. I would also love for Kain to refer to himself as "us/we" like he did during his last conversation with the eldar god.
You never fail to deliver amazing videos!!! I admire your ability to put out videos filled with in-depth information about a game that is old and has hard to access information.
Kain didn't execute Raziel because of jealousy. He knew the coming events through Mobius and knew that the only way to fully power the Soul Reaver was to fuse Raziel with the reaver. Raziel growing wings was the first step in events that would lead to Kain destroying the Elder God. This was why there was regret in Kain's voice when he ordered Raziel cast into the abyss. He knew what was coming and what had to be done.
I always look forward to your videos and I especially loved this one, since Raziel's vampiric days was also something I was curious about. I know it's too much to ask, but I hope you'll always have something to say about the LoK/SL series, because your videos are always a highlight to my day!
I was not aware that the process that Kain used to sire new vampires was different from Vorador or Jano's. What were the differences? I've always found it somewhat obscure how vampires reproduced in the franchise
As far as I understand, Kain used part of his life force to draw back the souls of his sons to their mostly-intact corpses and empowered them to rise again (much like raising a zombie with necromancy.) Raziel and his brothers would then do the same process to raise their own clans. In that way, every vampire by the time of Soul Reaver 1 was (distantly) connected to Kain, who was indeed their Creator and Progenitor
Thanks so much for making these videos. I love the LOK franchise so much, maybe too much, lol! As a suggestion, perhaps you could do one on the "religions" of Nosgoth. There are some interesting murals in SoulReaver in the Silenced Cathedral and Stone Glyph that always made me wonder what they represented. They could be interpreted as Elder worship or perhaps something else.
