wel technicly the vampires and everyone els where already inmortal but instead of staying in a young body they just reincarnate,reincarnation is also a form of inmortality. no1 in the legacy of kain universe actualy dies they become energie souls and then come back in some form. we dont know ehen but at some point kain returns to the other side aswel same goes for raziel ones his task in the reaver is done we just never got to see these moments. wel technicle raziel is set free to die ones he kills kain and he retusn to the elder god thats when his old timeline used to end but with sparing kain we dont know when his journey ends now.
I'm only 40 and I wouldn't wish immortality on my worst enemy. "IF" you make it to 100yo, that's just about 5200 weeks, and that already feels like so insanely long. You should want it to be over by the time it actually is
Let's not forget that right after Raziel and Vorador's simultaneous attack the Sarafan keep was infiltrated by Kain, who slaughtered everyone he encountered.
@@strictlyfantasy and looking back at the whole thing i'm starting to ask myself what was Janos and Vorador's plan at the time, they could have have managed to get back the pillars under vampire control, by killing the circle and turning their successors into vampire, and i think that they could have done that, a fledgling Kain did just that, and at the time he was far weaker than Vorador.
But kains assault on the stronghild didnt happen in the original timeline prior to SR2, so they were already heading to an end regardless of kains assault
@igotnopatience1717 True. The assaults by both Raziel and Vorador wiped put the Sarafan leadership and left them to break apart. Kain clashing with them in Defiance, just helped it happen faster.
In Soul Reaver 2, Raziel suggests that the main reason why the Sarafan were so successful in their crusade was because they had the power of Moebius's staff behind them, like the commanders did when they assaulted Janos's retreat. Same for the inquisitor army that Moebius himself created after William the Just was killed by Kain.
Kain referenced the power of the staff over the vampires when observing a mural of Mobius and Mortainius standing over a pile of dead vampires in Defiance as well.
@@daniell1483 Exactly my thoughts. Everytime I feel, like "ok, that was it, kind of a pity though" and then BAM we get another video. Always a treat to be proven wrong.
The Sarafan Order is one piece of lore I always wished we knew more about. Considering how it is portrayed, it is hard to not draw a parallel with the knightly orders of Christian Medieval Europe. Through their art, we see light is seen as beautiful and sacred; since the Sun slays vampires, I wouldn't be surprised to see some form of solar worship. The Sarafan portray their icons with feathered wings, which is obviously a trait taken from the Ancients; in a deeply ironic development, this trait of their foes seems to have taken on special meaning, chiefly authority, and holiness. While the meaning is probably lost on the Sarafan themselves, in a way, they recognize Ancients like Janos are the rightful authority of the world, and slaying them is actually deeply sacrilegious. I'll always wish we knew more about the setting, but the Sarafan are an especially good encapsulation of the themes of the LoK world: good intentions alone are vulnerable to manipulation, and letting others do your thinking for you is always a recipe for disaster and self-destruction.
That's interesting but I never really accepted Kain's self serving characterization of the Sarafan as having the same agenda as them. Enslaving humanity to drink their blood? I don't think that was on the Sarafan agenda. Whatever oppression they had in mind seems an indisputable improvement compared to Kain's empire. If you are human that is.
@@codyvandal2860 Kain is accusing the Sarafan as having the same goal as the vampires - to retain control of the Pillars. And we see exactly what this caused when Nupraptor psychically attacks his fellow human guardians - it drove them all mad and forced Kain to pick between two options, neither of which is actually good for the world at large. So, besides being genocidal dictators, they indirectly factored into the breaking of the Binding, the ancient vampire spell seperating Nosgoth from the demon realm and its Hylden overlords. Overlords who later conspire to wipe out all humanity! I like the Sarafan not because they were "moral" or "good", they are just another faction trying to build a world in their likeness.
I love how the narration Raziel does is 8n past tense, like if he was retelling his story, but knowing how his story ends makes you wonder how is that possible
In my fanfics, I always try to have the Godlike characters do something like that in order to symbolize how they exist everywhere and every when at the same time, and they must find ways to focus on what we perceive as the present. Perhaps, inside the Reaver, some part of him did something similar in order to not lose himself completely, perhaps hopeful of some form of release someday.
The narration is a staple of the series, i personally love it, as if Raziel and Kain are sitting with us and telling their stories. It was one of the missing aspects that I raved against when i saw the demo for "Dead Sun", no narration. Just plain cutscenes.
Blood Omen 2 was my indroduction to the series and holds a special place for me. At the time I really wanted to play the Soul Reaver games but lacked a console to play. Now I lack the time. But your videos truly made me feel like I experienced this franchise without actually playing them.
Funny thing is, Blood Omen 2 is largely considered the worst story. The character Vorador seems vastly different too. Blood Omen 1 is hard play but the story is good and then the Soul Reavers are epic, SR2 was my favourite followed by Defiance but SR1 is still a classic game for storyline.
A nice summary of the in-game Sarafan lore. A good topic on the 6 commanders calling one another Brother can also stem from being Brothers in Faith, as well as in arms, though I could understand if not everyone may agree with that. Another note was a lack of touching on the post Second Paradox Sarafan resurgence from Blood Omen 2. I assume they were omitted to focus on the core group and said their rise and fall. Given the lack of guidance from the original order's founder Mobius, I could see the Sarafan Lord's army getting it's own video.
That's a good point I hadn't considered. I agree they were also likely "brothers" of faith. In terms of the second Sarafan group seen in BO2, I considered including them in this vid, but given that they are a different faction taking inspiration from the original Sarafan, I decided it was best left as a topic for a later discussion.
Always appreciate the details of the series. Both in the tomb and Sarafan Stronghold, Raziel is regarded differently to his brothers. His tomb, lacking the Sarafan emblem above. Also that the later Symbol of Raziel's clan could be implied to be a reversed Sarafan emblem. Meanwhile, he is memorialised with a statue within the stronghold. Whereas his brothers are depicted solely with murals. The Infinity symbol on Moebius' head in fact resembling the eye of the Elder God. Not merely denoting his relationship to Time. Right down to the flags of Mobius bearing an even less subtle eye reference within that emblem.
For me, this is the most captivating lore channel on RU-vid right now, you always make my day great with your videos! I can never wait for what comes next and each single time you surprise me with something I didn't know about the Legacy of Kain world, even though I'm a big nerd :) Can you tell which part of the series was your favourite? Vae Victis!
Thanks for the kind words. For me, I really love the story of Soul Reaver 2. While I prefer Soul Reaver 1 overall (in terms of gameplay, story, lore, world, etc), nearly every single cutscene in Soul Reaver 2 is masterful.
Though now looking back, I'm puzzled why Malek didn't put a connection together between Sarafan Raziel and Wraith Raziel, especially when he was in the same room with Moebius where they kept the Reaver in the stronghold, near the end of Soul Reaver 2.
@@DoctorSoullldenial and fanatism are powerful drugs. He would never be able to accept anything less or more from Raziel other than what he could provide as a human.
@@DoctorSoulll Even if he put the connection together, what would he do with it? He knows vampirism is capable of deeply changing a person's personality, and Raziel has gone through something far worse to become a wraith. If Malek put the pieces together, all he would see is the corpse of an old companion being puppeted by a malign spirit.
My favorite lines still from SR2 is when Raziel confronts his Sarafan self. Before the fight human Raziel remarks that the wraith has come to avenge Janos and says "You're a righteous fiend, aren't you?" To which wraith Raziel bemusedly remarks, regarding his former self's cruelty and sadistic enjoyment of killing Janos "Apparently I am". And then, upon running his human self through with the Blood Reaver, Raziel looks him in the eyes. All of his once heartfelt longing to return to his humanity, that he had thought was noble and righteous and pure, having been dashed at seeing how monstrous he was as a man. Before his human self died Raziel coldly proclaims "I renounce you". And I think that that is just a beautiful moment for the circular nature of Raziel's life. Although, one thing has bothered me- there is no distortion. There should be a temporal distortion as there's up to three different incarnations of Raziel in that room.
Good stuff. Raziel was a fiend as a human, and the vampire Raziel also recognized himself as a fiend, or that's what I hear in his line, "we became more.....divine." I think he carries some regret, not empathy with humans but an awareness that kain's brood is uncool for the world. An unspoken guilt. Then, when the wraith Raziel became truly free, part of that freedom was he had the option to no longer be a fiend. He grew empathy and was able to voice his regrets about the vampire past life. He was able to turn from destroyer to redeemer at the close. The killing of his human self wasn't marked by distortion because it was what had always happened, not a change to history. So that's the thematic reason we saw no paradox field rippling in the air. I don't know the "physics" reason why there was no distortion, except maybe that all the Raziels were different incarnations?
I believe the distortion only occurs when Raziel is in close proximity with the Soul Reaver. In this scene, the Soul Reaver wasn't created yet as the sword he carries is only the empty Reaver Blade at this point. The only reason the sword doesn't immediately attack Raziel when he first picks it up is because Moebius disarmed the wraith blade. Raziel feels an inkling in his arm as if the wraith blade is desperately trying to link back up with the physical blade. The distortions only occur when the soul inside the wraith Raziel and the future soul of Raziel inside the Soul Reaver are close to each other.
It's not caused by multiple raziel souls in close proximity, it's about paradoxes. Moments in time that allow for divergence. It happens to be that it happens with the soul reaver because it CANNOT devour it's own soul. The only reason there was no distortion in the scene was because raziel was unable to eat souls while holding the blood reaver. Otherwise there would have been distortions when he killed the other 5 sarafan. Those souls also couldn't be consumed at that time without paradox (since raziel ate those in the future).
Raziel killing himself isn't a paradox. The wraith blade devouring itself, is. Oh and that last "I renounce you line", and the look of horror on Raziel's face, I think he realised who his opponent was in his final moments.
Such amazing world building! The writing is amazing as this was the first game/series of games that dealt with the ideas of humanity, right/wrong, destiny in a complex way. Treasure!
Considering how *vital* Moebius's staff was to helping kill of many of the Elder Vampires like Janos in the Sarafan's crusades, I'm always suprised how little info we actually have on it. Its long been speculated that the staff completely debilitates anything Vampire related, including their magic. Explaining why the Circle members were defenseless against Vorador as Moebius was literally dampening Raziel's powers just a hallway away to make him take up the Soul Reaver. Substantiated when Kain comes back to life, another thing we don't have answer for, and confronts Moebius without Janos's heart it has no effect on him, with Kain literally stating how the thing that gave the staff power over him is no longer there. But other than we don't know who made the staff or how Moebius got it.
I think some people might not fully appreciate how masterfully you have crafted and narrated the story of the games. You've taken the cutscenes, the lore, the in-game art, architecture, common mythology and so forth and weaved them into something even richer than the sum of its parts, and it's so engaging and gripping. Thank you.
Another great commentary on a specific topic of the saga! And as usual, thank you very much for the use of my "9 original Guardians of the Pillars of Nosgoth" picture !!!
Hey great to see a new video from you man, hope your 2023 is going great and hopefully we hear some news on either a remake or remaster of Legacy of Kain.
Gosh these videos are excellent! I've played the Soul Reaver trilogy several times and I've never ingested this much lore. This is so helpful in understanding the whole LoK picture. Over 20 years with these games and I'm still learning interesting stuff. It's worthy of an HBO series
Happy to have found this series. Almost embarrassed to admit that I’ve been a huge fan of the series for more than 2 decades and have never noticed the similarity to the NiMo building that I’ve leaved near for close to 40 years. TIL. Can’t wait to finish up this series and see what else you come up with.
Another video on LOK Lore. Thank you so much for keeping this awesome video game relevant. Still waiting on a continuation to the series or remake. One can only hope.
The flags on the Sarafan Stronghold that we see in Defiance are very different from the ones in Soul Reaver 2. I always believed that are a sign of mourning due to the recent loss of their priests warriors. If that is the case, it's a good attention to detail from the dev team. Great video as always!
Love your videos on this game! Is it just me or has anyone ever wondered if or why Malek didn't question Mobius why he was calling Wraith Raziel; Raziel???
My theory is that Malak knew more than what was known by others around him. After all, Malak is one of the Guardians of the Pillars of Nosgoth. So he was probably well aware that his former lieutenant was now this blue monsterous creature before them and knew the difference between the two thanks to Moebius.
whats interesting about raziels journey is how it shows how easy it is to trick someone or manipulate them into adopting a habbit and how its ironic that the one person he didnt listen to most of the time was beeing honest with him the whole time and that was kain. the lesson is dont believe so easely what youre told and think and learn for youreself and sometimes its smart to trust a story that might seem more unlikely,and ofc it helps if youre not a gullible person.
Is there a video that talks about the resurrection of the Sarafan by the Sarafan General, really known as the Hylden General? It would be good to see how the Resurrected Sarafan Order from Blood Omen 2 is explained.
Strictly, thanks for bringing the Legacy of Kain story back from the dead. This is my favorite game series of all time. The characters, the story, the intricate plot, etc. I hope one day Crystal Dynamics sells the rights to LOK so that the series can be remastered, and if successful, have a sequel to Defiance or have a game take place more revolved around the vampire Raziel before is impending damnation at Kain's hand. I think we can all agree, that this legendary series needs to be reintroduced to the world because quite frankly, games lately have been sub par only focusing on how much revenue can be generated where as back than it was more about creating the best game on the market. The next, "hot thing" if you will. Thanks again I will gladly subscribe for more content. Cheers, and, "Vae victis!"
I love these videos so much. There's another youtuber called the Lady of Lore who also uploads really long Legacy of Kain videos I recommend those videos too, between both channels there's a good 7 or 8 hours worth of content maybe more. Great for listening to as audiobooks or podcasts while you walk around smoking some green about to do that right now! And ride an electric bike listening to this too. Not quite today but soon.
Unlike Raziel, if I saw a statue of myself in any ancient time drowned in crimson and gold, I would fear its meaning. I fear what messed up opinions I would still hold firm to my heart these days had I not had today's content to save me in time. An example of why I should be feared are the ones I still hold in regard when playing games such as "Mass Effect" or the original two "Infamous".
I always assumed that the sarafan stronghold was originally an ancient vampire fortress. And that the winged statues and stained glass, was just a coverup. I thought this because of its close proximity to the light forge, and how many vampire locking mechanisms are used throughout all of it.
I hate everything the Sarafan stood for, even if I understand where they were coming from. I'm glad Kain, Rahab and Raziel eventually learned their lesson in leaving behind the poisonous thoughts that brought about this order's teachings.
Can I just say that seeing a Dawnguard about to kill a Vampire Lord at 5:38 is just hilarious to me? The vampires in LoK are complex and not so easily described. Harkon and his vampires were just straight up evil and selfish. This framed with the words, "-for carrying out cold-blooded acts of violence." It all just adds to the humour of it. Great video though. Love me some LoK discussions any day.
Really enjoyed this new vid on Sarafan Lore!!! AWESOME JOB as usual. I just hope that when the Embracer Group does revive the Legacy of Kain, that it follows what made this series a MASTERPIECE and not fall into disgrace like Saints Row............
Also, a fanfic focused around Roxas called "KH: The Twilight Will" had him travel to this world, and I must say, the thought of Primal darkness twisted by the Spectral Ream being the true origin of the Elder and the reason why the Guardians were so easily manipulated and later corrupted was interesting. It shows the importance of balance and why Ariel and Nupraptor were unfit guardians. It wasn't because of the relationship itself. It was because they allowed their love made them forget life is both horrifying and beautiful. Just like the Ancient Vampires allowed their pride to make them careless of the element they sought to harvest, something that shouldn't have happened given the spiritual conditions the planet was subject to. Everyone in this saga represented something, but they failed to understand it in full. Isn't it sad how they rejected self understanding in favor of prestige ? That's why I love villains who don't care about things beyond inner power, strength and knowledge. If only they would strive for wisdom too. And that's why I prefer the Roxas in that fanfic over the canon one. I respect balanced pride born of the search for knowledge and understanding. I despise righteous arrogance that limits someone for no other reason other than laziness and lack of love or care.
Much of the powers that rule our own world are ruled by righteous arrogance and narcissism coupled with a secret desire for power in itself In reality, there are no true heroes or villains. Everyone has a fragment of what they consider good that others would find abhorrent. And, very few commit evil for its own sake. They commit evil because they believe that they're right I've grown to mire and appreciate the mindset of the villain the older I get. Goodness, however, frail yields no reward
Kill yourself to rejoin your god. I can imagine how that went. Suicidal ancient vampire: I have ended my life that I may once again enter your grace, O Lord. Elder God: Sure, why not? *CHOMP!!!*
Ironicaly, the human circle guardians also got a sort of immortaliry thanks to the pillars, as mentioned in many sources. I always was confused how exactly the elder god would fix that.🤔
I love love love your videos!!! Your videos are always so well put together, and I also like the way you speak. It's like I am reading a philosophical book. It is just marvelous! PS: Sorry for my English, I am still learning the language.
Really love how the video starts off with dialog from the first Soul Reaver. Granted, Soul Reaver's 2 opening was the same as Soul Reaver's ending (just a bit shorter), the first game was more dynamic in how Raziel and Kain read the script. Soul Reaver 2 was just flashier with graphics and game mechanics, as the series came to the Playstation 2 (which was fine with me 😁). That said, I really like how by the end of Soul Reaver and throughout Soul Reaver 2 Raziel just wanted to embrace his old life as a human Sarafan Priest, but after revealing how monstrous he once was and being the one to rip out Janos Audren's heart, that all completely went away! I wonder if there were any great Sarafan female warriors. Imagine Raziel's brethren having female comrades. Just a thought. 😊 Love the video, as always! Please keep this going as long as you can. Legacy of Kain is the best! 👍🏼
Have you ever read the Elric series? Would be interested in seeing your analysis on it. I've just picked it up but this guy looks strikingly similar to Kain.
Just imagine if the series was remade. Not rebooted. But faithfully remade. They kept the voice acting (Perhaps adding new content with the V.A.'s that are still active) the overall visuals were the same. But they used modern technology and rendering techniques to bring the vision of the game to modern graphics and tighter gameplay...all with the superior storytelling and voice acting they had back then.
A remaster would be all that's necessary. Pretty up the graphics for those that care about such shallow things. There is no need for any "new content" for the VA's either. The only place that might even be necessary is to reinstate the cut content of Soul Reaver 1. Which would in fact _end_ the series right there.
@@pious83 The cut content of SR1 would be an optional feature for the player's choice if you ask me. Maybe add future Turel to the main game at least as he was supposed to be in it regardless but was cut due to time constraints and budgets. But was later returned in Defiance.
