Looks like this video is picking up in the algorithm a bit so you'll have to excuse me if I don't get to all your comments in a timely fashion, but I'm gonna try! EDIT: Before commenting "where's Woody or Petaly"... Check the date on the video. They literally didn't exist yet!!!
What if it's the phone? The direct ties to Spamton and Gaster, as well as being able to have the advantage of hearing some pretty important things in the story...
The dark fountains seem to be confined to a room. Ralsie's dark world and the Card Kingdom (tho they might because they both have "hallways" so to speak" also the Pc lab are all confined to the room that they are in (tho Spamton might have some knowledge from the (presumably) many soul books upstairs) Also Spamton could have been made anywhere from a few months ago to an hour ago and Spamton is a middle aged man.
@@pottern2296 Well actually, there's also the art, level design, enemy design, bullet pattern, writing out dialogue for random npcs and finalizing the important dialogue 🤓
@@pottern2296 That's just an outline. I expect he has at least some idea on what major enemies are, and such, but there's a lot of details that a first pass story wouldn't include.
With the spamton sweepstakes they specifically mentioned Kris reflecting an apple Susie throws at them so... Unless I'm reading too much into it I could see that as a hint towards the green soul
Imagine if the remote paused you in place and your soul turned green to defend itself while stuck. Your soul turned Yellow without any help in Spamton's fight so this could be a possibly.
I feel like no matter the boss or soul type the soul will be put in some scenario that will manifest a new trait on its own. Like in the Spamton NEO fight.
18:42 While this is a good argument, it has already been disproven. The Green Room, the only actual room in Chapter 3 we've seen so far, has references from the upstairs hallway and Kris' room. The cacti in the corners are a perfect match for the cactus in the upstairs hallway, only with its colors changed. The star-patterned wallpaper references the glowing stars on Asriel's walls. In the red area in the back, a maus (plush?) hanging on the wall references Asriel's computer mouse, while a box of swords references the cup of pencils on his desk. The two couches in the room reference the two beds from upstairs; the one on the left is green with yellow stripes like Asriel's shirt and bed, while the other is a dingy shade of blue that has cracks similar to the cracks on Kris' shelving. This means that, unless Kris' bedroom door was opened at some point between Chapter 2's beginning and the creation of the Fountain, Fountains can go through closed doors in a building (though likely unable to travel outside still); perhaps dependent on the will of the one creating the Fountain, whether it's a matter of choice or just of raw power. Also this means that Ice-E is going to be real and we should all be afraid This additionally means that the Secret Boss could be something from Toriel's room, though that obviously involves a double-blind of speculation; perhaps an old unused radio. 34:44 Secret Bosses often encompass multiple concepts. While Spamton does represent spam emails, he also represents all kinds of scams, intrusive advertising, and oldschool fast-talking salespeople. An early morning children's programming character could be one based on the green crayon, the flowers, or the horned headband.
Yep, I totally missed the mouse in the background and the stripes on the couch. That's pretty solid confirmation that the bedrooms are fair game, or, at least Kris's. I wonder if the door got opened at some point then because we've clearly seen dark worlds get stopped by doors before in the school and Librarby... Maybe Toriel went snooping around because Kris has been acting strangely? The only other option I can think of is what you suggested wherein Kris has so much more determination than the knight that they can cast the entire house in darkness and not just a single room. Spamton is formed from spam emails so I think covering multiple scam artist tropes makes sense but I'd argue the horns and flowers have far more obvious references to draw from. (devilish traits/plant and love traits) The crayon manifesting as cartoons is definitely interesting though. Along with the "How to draw dragons" book it seems Asriel was a bit of an artist as a kid. Maybe some of those drawings, like maybe Yoshi even, will come back for revenge? Lol
Also note that on one of the Sweepstakes sites, there’s a curtain that, if you click on it, reveals a Shadowman putting on socks. That curtain has the exact same design as the shower curtains in the bathroom so it looks like the entire house is fair game to be incorporated into the DW.
I always believed that Kris's horn headband is represented as Ralsei Kris always has the headband with them because they want to fit in their goat family, so Ralsei would be what Kris wants to be. That would also explain why Ralsei managed to get to cyber's world despite not being explicitly taken in Kris's inventory. He always was with Kris. This is just a theory of course, knowing Toby anything is possible
Something tells me it's gonna be the character on How to Draw Dragons, tbh. It's been mentioned in both chapters in a few places, and there's that emphasis on how Asriel _refuses_ to return it, yet it still sits at the bottom of the drawer. It's acknowledged by Kris, Toriel, and Berdly after all this time, and yet it seems like it hasn't been taken out of that drawer in years (out of embarrassment? just procrastination?). Not only that, but a mantle in particular being the key item you need seems like something you'd see in a medieval setting. I wouldn't be surprised if you had to face the "immodestly-dressed" dragon in a Game of Thrones-esque program setting or something.
The dragon from that book is described as a "mauve dragon wearing lipstick". This might be a stretch, but mauve is a light hue/shade(?) of purple, just like dark world Susie. What if the dragon turns out to be the "Susiezilla" on the TV when Susie kept switching channels? Of course Godzilla isn't a dragon, but it's still reptilian.
the secret bosses, if the flowers are in chapter 3, all relate to breaking bonds. jevil breaks bonds with seam, spamton breaks bonds with the addisons and breaks his strings, and asgore is _✨divorced✨_
The idea of the secret boss being an ignored show/something that only comes on at really off times is great. A lot of stuff like weird public access television that only comes on super late/early is so ignored that it frequently turns into lost media.
By the way, random thing to note here: The King's Chain, and Jevil's cage The Queen's Cord (Controlling the Werewires, Berdly, attacking, etc), and Spamton's Wires --Presumably-- Tenna's [Weapon of choice] and [Secret Boss's] main aspect... They all go together. Two sides of the same coin. This is why I think the Camera secret boss idea really fits
Another aspect that we have to keep in mind with the SB is that not all abandoned items are immediately viable candidates, as there’s the circumstances behind the Abandoned Classroom Dark World to consider. Everything in it was, well, abandoned. Yet the Joker card got singled out to be the SB. With that in mind, its arguable that the SB will be an item that is abandoned/discarded in regards to the TV Theme. So perhaps some form of lost media (banned episodes, failed TV pilots, etc) or obsolete technology. The latter, i believe, is more likely, specifically the possibility of it being VHS related. We know in UT that the Dreemurr family took many home movies and recorded them on tapes, so it stands to reason that they did the same here in DR. The medium of VHS itself has been long since been replaced by other forms of video storage (DVDs, digital files, etc), and it’s likely that the memories that the movies bring up are painful for Toriel, justifying why they may be abandoned within the house (likely her room).
I like your thinking! The thing I think that sets Jevil/Spamton apart is that they are items that have connotations around being purposefully ignored. The Joker card doesn't have any purpose in a card game and spam emails are intentionally not read. That's why I was leaning towards a 4am programming block or something because it's put on the air just to fill space not really intended to be watched. That said, this dark world is different from the others as Kris made it inside their own home so the connotation could be far more personal to the family than with Jevil/Spamton. I wonder if a similar lens cap situation could have happened that left one of the tapes used but essentially blank? That would make it purposeless and tie back into Undertale in a funny way.
@@guiltyflygon Well i feel VHS itself, once being the most popular form of video storage and now just completely outpaced by newer methods, would be enough justification for it to be the SB, with the added layer of them housing unwanted memories making them abandoned in regards to both the TV theme and the Household itself. R.V. Pine’s fan take on ch.3 has a SB that’s this idea and it fits super well.
@@guiltyflygon i mean, the joker card can be used as a wildcard in, for example, klondike solitaire. the rules card is even more useless than the joker cars: klondike rules are exceedingly simple, and it serves absolutely zero purpose. it's why i believe that rouxls kaard is gonna be a future secret boss, maybe the final one
One thing that I’d like to note is that if the chapter 3 soul mode really is green, which I think it probably will be since it seems like Undyne is going to be in it, then the reason we need shadow mantle to beat the boss could be so we have something to block the attack with. After all, Undyne seems to imply that all the green soul mode actually does in Undertale is make it so we can’t move, and then she gives us a spear so that it’s a fair fight. On another note, as I haven’t seen many people talking about it I think I have an idea of what the book of hymns could be in the dark world. Toriel falls to sleep with a book in her lap, and her outfit seems like it could pretty easily transform into a wizard or witch outfit, so maybe her weapon type is actually spell books, similar to how Noelle’s is rings. If this is the case the book of hymns could be a better weapon you get for her later on, maybe even on the weird route if there is one this chapter. Finally, my best guess as for why Kris is able to open a fountain after ripping their soul out would just be that they may have some residual determination flowing through their body, this could also help explain why they put it back in immediately after they create the fountain, they may have used up much of what they had left.
That is a very interesting thought about the shadow mantle... It would definitely explain why Seam thinks it will be impossible to win without it if it is the green soul power's shield. I think Toriel will definitely be a mage so having her use spellbooks makes a lot of sense. A lot of people are leaning towards her being a fire mage as we saw in Undertale but if the book of hymns is taken into consideration she might actually be a "holy" mage/cleric which fits her more I'd argue. Especially due to her renewed faith in the Deltarune universe.
Perhaps she could be both fire and holy since we know that, at least in the case of darkners, that some people use two different elements. Alternatively, if the book of hymns ends up being related to some type of weird route thing, it could be flipped on its head and allow Toriel to use a move called hellfire, or something similar
Here is something interesting about Kris' movement. The staggered movement happens in Ch1 before removing the Soul. Kris can move find in scenes and events. Kris even gets to school if you go back to bed. Something has to be applying resistance to stop Kris or applying force leading to those movements.
A thing you forgot is that the secret bosses are also related to the main bosses somehow, and have had problems with them. Jevil was trapped by King, Spamton was thrown away by Queen. If the main boss is Mike, then Mike being a TV would like to get rid of the thing that can control it, the remote.
We are in Kris's family home, their broken, lonely, divorce ridden, home. It's gotta be the divorce papers. What I mean by this is that the most thematic and relevant item to Kris, our protagonist, is going to be an item symbolizing their broken home and the divorce that made it. I'm posting this like 5 minutes in so I hope I didn't mess up seriously.
That's an interesting thought, most likely they would be inside Toriel's room which could make sense for our mysterious secret boss, however I personally believe the flowers serve the same purpose with more thematic potential. That said, the divorce papers manifesting as a scummy Hollywood lawyer who may relate to themes of control through contracts or NDAs is also pretty intriguing.
@@guiltyflygon I was using the divorce papers as a funny example of my thought process. I don't think they'll be in the game, but represent clearly what I think one of this chapter's big themes will be.
you only briefly touched on it, but i like the green crayon as an option for the secret boss more and more. both of the secret bosses we've seen so far seem to be more associated with one of their item rewards than the other. jevil makes multiple allusions to the devilsknife during his fight, and when you beat him using violence he says to "TAKE ME AND DO YOUR STRONGEST," as opposed to "TAKE THIS" when he gives you the jevilstail in the pacifist route. spamton, meanwhile, is seen wearing dealmaker at all times prior to acquiring the NEO body, and he gives it to you when you spare him. he never even mentions the puppet scarf, which is the reward for beating him with violence. how does this relate to the green crayon? well, kris's weapons of choice in the dark world are all swords, whose light world equivalents are writing utensils. depending on which dark world equipment you give kris, it can be one of several pencils, or an eraser. therefore, it wouldn't be a far stretch to assume that a crayon would fit this pattern. if our next secret boss is the green crayon, i think we can expect to see a sword incorporated into their design somehow. this sword will probably be passed down to kris if you defeat the boss in question violently. even if the boss isn't literally the crayon, i still wouldn't be surprised to see them wielding one. maybe, whatever item they are, they wound up lost alongside the crayon?
But this brings up the question of why Kris's sword(s) hasn't/haven't become living beings. The premise of "If an object can write, then it will/can become a weapon in the Dark World." would have to apply to the crayon.
@@bryanseenath5717 yeah, that or specifically the basement, given how both it and the closet are small dark areas, and where we find the powerplug/alligatorclip enemies (since the closet is just for storage)
If the red horns were ralsei, it could explain how ralsei knows so much about the light world, having been on kris’ head all the time, and being shown around the light world with the world’s most devoted tour guide!!!
How To Draw Dragons could totally be it... Purple dragon on the cover = purple soul power Its a book, and the human with a purple soul in Undertale had a notebook, which is why the purple soul has the lined pages theme. It's been mentioned several times in chapter's one and two, potentially hinting at it's signifigance. It's a discarded item because it's been left unreturned for so long. These are all of the reasons I can think of, but there might be more. Personally I think it's a pretty strong contender, especially since the boss would already have a design (a purple dragon wearing very little clothing)
I don't think the secret boss will be represented by anything tangible. Jevil was because the entire card kingdom was based on physical toys, but spamton wasn't represented by a physical object in the computer lab because he exists in cyberspace. Since chapter 3 will be tv based, I think the secret boss is more likely to be something intangible, related to entertainment and showbiz. I'd suggest commercials or something, but I think that's too close to spamton's theme and not very freedom-themed. I'll keep thinking about it for sure. Edit after thinking a little: something related to the concept of outtakes could be an interesting one. Scenes deemed not good enough for the final product. It has that theme of being shunned and hidden away, and of lack of control because of being cut by someone. Even better, there's opportunity for funky speech patterns (flubbed lines) and for a juxtaposition between the angst of being cut/not good enough and the humor associated with bloopers. (Uh oh, I'm getting attached)
That is an interesting idea, outtakes are definitely something I could see being thought within the secret boss themes. Now, we never see a physical representation of Jevil but we know he's a joker card and the card castle basement is probably the space under the cabinet in the light world. If so it's possible we just never saw the joker card because it was tucked away under there. (aligns with being forgotten/imprisoned etc.) In the computer lab recycling bin we see a bunch of printed out spam emails (probably from Jockington given what he says on day 1 in the library). Now, these emails are probably meant to represent the Addisons more than Spamton but... Spamton is an Addison after all. All I'm saying is that it's not impossible that the item could be something visible, especially given this is the first dark fountain location we've been able to explore before it get turned into a dark world, but yeah, it's definitely very possible we haven't seen the secret boss at all yet. (And I kind of hope we haven't for the max surprise value)
@guiltyflygon ah, it seems I forgot about the details. That makes sense! That also reminds me that the castles in both chapters are a storage cabinet, and both of the secret bosses are found in their basements, under the cabinet. It'll be interesting to see how or if this pattern continues, especially because there is no similar storage cabinet in the living room. Perhaps the tv stand will be the equivalent, and the secret boss will be found underneath it? I doubt there will be a castle, but rather whatever building ends up playing a similar role.
Another perspective on what the connecting themes for the secret bosses is that they are each a part of the thing the dark world is based on but are unwanted/cast out. The joker cards are part of a deck, but for most games they are set aside and not used. Spam emails are part of your inbox, but they're automatically placed into a separate spam folder, separate and ignored. I can't think of any TV things that are specifically separated like that though.
@@danielle5160 i can't wait for chapters 3-5 to come out and have like two of the secret bosses completely disturb the formula we thought was going to be consistent
Since Undyne is coming to the house late at night because of those tires. I would think it would be likely that she would have a flashlight. I think the fact she has a source of actual light that could be on when she goes in is gonna come up at least once as most things are either transformed into an item, become a part of the area, or into a darkener. Additionally items on people can become darkeners but becoming a part of the area is I think unlikely. But imagine if the flashlight became a weapon and became a wand or something like a lightsaber.
Before I watch this: I think the secret boss is going to be the flowers in the trash. The secret bosses are usually things that are shunned, discarded--the joker card and spam emails--so it would make a lot of sense to me, as it would follow the theme or "we're the ones nobody wanted." I'll add an edit after finishing the video. Edit: I had never paid attention to the 'stuck' aspects of the secret bosses and I now realize you're right. For instance, Spamton is spam mail, always stuck in the spam box in your emails, and he sent Noelle that egg because she read her spam mail and paid attention to it. I'm not sure where Jevil is stuck in the old classroom, but I'd imagine probably in the card box or the cupboard. Now what you said about the pie intrigues me because when you fight Muffet, you know what her plan is? To make you into a pastry. Assuming it's the magenta soul, but Undyne's presence could make it the green soul. My two cents is that it'll be a TV dark world with Dreemurr stuff hidden just below the surface, and that the secret boss will be the flowers, but I really don't know. Pie's my second-best guess, but the idea of the secret boss just being straight-up Yoshi is very funny. Now, on determination: Queen says the Knight channeled their determination into their blade and thus created the dark fountain. The Knight probably isn't Kris, so Determination can't be an exclusively human thing. Well, in Undertale, we get the information that monsters are mostly made of magic, and they turn to dust when they die. But in Deltarune Susie states "Everybody bleeds, right?" which wouldn't make sense. And in Undertale, it is stated that since monsters are mainly made of magic, they can't handle much Determination. But Queen expects Noelle to have Determination, and while this can easily be seen as a mistake on her part, Berdly is about to create a dark fountain when Ralsei stops him, implying Berdly COULD have made this dark fountain. My theory is that monsters are just more physical creatures than in Undertale. And then there's the issue of how Kris made the Dark Fountain if they have no soul in their body. Well: When Asriel Dreemurr turns back into himself, he doesn't turn back into Flowey right away after breaking the barrier. He still has his compassion, if only for a bit. No explanation is directly given--or even asked for, the fans didn't care. But it seems like while your soul is outside of you, you remain "you" or alive at least for a little. My theory is that when Kris takes the soul out of their body, they technically are dead, hence why they walk so slowly and put their soul back into their body as soon as they're done slashing the tires. I think that they had enough Determination to create the Dark Fountain and then put their soul back into their body. That's what I think, anyway. Thus concludes my long rant about Determination. Bye!
Maybe the green crayon will be a sword you can find in a somewhat hidden area in chapter 3, and equipping it before sealing the fountain will net a little extra dialogue in the light world?
@@TheSkyGuy77 What does it even change??? Why are you telling me it's a joke, as if i care??? You want me to shut up, only because it's a joke??? No, i have the right to talk. And the type of joke you made still shouldn't contradict with the reality.
There's also the question of what role the 3 File Items are going to be in the dark world. For context, depending on your file the contents of Asriel's drawer changes.
If your theory is correct this would imply that there would be a Orange/Cyan soul mode which we never got in Undertale meaning we'd get something completely original for Deltarune
That would be my hope yeah. Technically orange and cyan are used for attacks you move through and stay stationary for but green attacks heal you so there's still infinite potential for what they could be. I personally think that the cyan soul being Gaster's soul mode would be funny as Sans and Papyrus use blue.
@@guiltyflygon I guess you could be right about the orange/cyan attacks but honestly if they're gonna be incorporated I'd rather they be spread out through out the game being used by different enemies/bosses instead of just one boss who uses orange attacks and another that uses cyan attacks.
You mean, because there is 7 chapters? That would mean they both will be in chapters 6 & 7, as the order of fallen humans goes, and as Toby said, chapters 3, 4, 5 will be released at the same time, and it leaves 6 & 7 separate, which means they might have something unique, such as these new soul types. Just a very fragile theory, but a theory nonetheless.
6:09 it actually could make total sense, if it’s Kris’s og default soul color. Kris already has many parallels to what know of the light blue/cyan human. They turn an extremely similar color in the dark world. We’ve found a ribbon every chapter so far (starting at white, now at pink. Both are mentioned to be cute). Kris has a knife. And they have a bandage by default. It could be that the red soul isn’t Kris’ or that human souls turn red they have a player involved. It would make sense end with it as it would be the climax of the game, if this were true.
you know when you put it that way if the book does become a Darkner then the Dreemurrs have essentially kidnapped it and kept it away from it's home for years, no wonder it's upset lol.
If the secret boss ended up being the Yoshi character, or honestly anything related video games, that could create some pretty meta moments with a sentient game inside a game. And considering how Noelle's games seemed to be manipulated a lot before the events of Deltarune, with strange Easter eggs and glitches nobody else experienced, it would make sense for this game to be cryptically altered as well.
The bouquet of flowers could also be from a romance/drama show, i like to think that they were rejected and are now searching for independence/freedom instead of being a sign of love like before It certainly fits really well considering the tv theme + that Toriel literally threw them into the trash cuz she hated Asgore lol
In regards to your question at the end about how Kris forms the dark fountain without their soul, I think it might be more simple than we realize. It is quite apparent that Kris is very determined to break free of our/the soul’s influence. To the point that they rip it out despite it looking very painful. That determination to break free is what likely drives them and since they have that determination that is likely why they are able to make the fountain. I believe them being so determined to break free is also why they seem to be able to live, even if only for a short time, without their soul.
This is one of the options I'm going to be putting forth for the theory, yeah. Though it kind of depends on whether you view determination as a state of being like we would in the real world or a super power like it was kind of presented as in Undertale. And then you have to ask if the soul contains it or just channels it... very complicated lol
I regards to what books could mean in the next chapter, my idea is that books will be Toriel's weapons for example the book of hymns being the defensive or healing weapon. Remember at the end of the chapter Toriel fell asleep with a book in her hand.
plus there have been more than a few other noteworthy books that could be used as Toriel's weapons like the "How to care for a human" book, the "how to draw dragons" book, or Ralsei's manual
@samvanroon5041 I like this because you can throw away ralsei's manual early in the game, which might cause ch. 3's snowgrave. Maybe if you don't throw it away, it becomes Toriels weapon, and can't be removed, but if you throw it away then you can equip other, more powerful books.
something useful to note- the secret boss has always been part of the main bosses @posse@ before being dumped. I could see the remote being like the old assistant to Mike as a TV, with them treating the remote badly because of their arrogance, and leading to them getting fired
Very interesting. I do think the secret boss will probably be linked to Mike somehow... My best guess is that the thing constraining their freedom is a contract or something of the like so that aligns pretty well with your thoughts.
With the flower idea (or really most of the ideas), the boss could have a more conceptual play theme, which imo would be a good clash against the TV theming of the rest of the dark world
Interesting that the two pieces of art you mention that don't manifest as Darkners are depictions of Lightners. The picture of Gerson is of course, Gerson. But the NEO body is also Mettaton, a Lightner, drawing what his own ideal body would be. So maybe a Darkner cannot be created from the likeness of a Lightner under normal conditions. Definitely raises even more questions about Ralsei though.
I honestly believe that not just the knock off controller but the actual console to be the secret boss and to reference asriel (notlike how spamton references mettaton) but I've noticed a trend with the secret bosses they basically act like a dark counterpart of one of the lightners like jevil for susie and spamton for kris enhancing their bad traits in a way so I think the ch3 boss will have enhanced bad traits from ralsei which would be feeling lonely separated from everyone else and kinda manipulative (not cause he's evil cause of the things he puts under the rug like the spamton encounter) But anyway properly wrong
I like this idea but I'd argue that Susie is reflected in Spade King rather than Jevil. Kris and Spamton share traits as do Noelle's mother and Queen. I wonder if the secret boss of chapter 3 might reflect Toriel while the main boss reflects Asgore? That would be an interesting conundrum for Toriel and Kris to wade through. I honestly could see Jevil reflecting Ralsei and we just don't have the context for exactly how yet. After all Jevil was locked away alone like Ralsei was and the both of them have powers based around sleep and transformation. (Ralsei has sleep mist and changed his appearance at the end of chapter 1, Jevil is pretty obvious in these regards) Food for thought.
@@guiltyflygon I honestly saw the susie and the spade king connection to be similar with Queens connection to noelles mother to where the spade represents a parental figure in susies life I just think that jevil is kinda like susie in a sense to where its only her negative side aka the malicous side of her and also you get access to jevils prison once the elevator scene with susie Also I wouldn't really say he transformed at the end of ch1 he just took off his hat
this actually also supports the theory about the flowers being the secret boss it was meant to be a nice thing from asgore, but... yeah so the flowers have both things where they want(ed) to be nice, but they got trapped in that place but idk
The secret boss is absolutely going to be the How to Draw Dragons book! More seriously, I think it might be a sort of manifestation of tv static, of dead air. After all, that's what Kris tuned to, and lies just behind every actual broadcast.
Before even watching the video, I wanna say: I think the secret boss is gonna be the "How To Draw Dragons" book because it's been in both Chapters so far. I'm writing my own version of Chapter 3 so I won't spoil too much (and also I'm not done writing it), but I'm planning for the Boss' story to involve how people rarely use the book how it was intended.
@@maritoxico9982 related but not really, the family photo could be kris, toriel, and asgore as a family in some room randomly maybe as statues or something, but idk
21:04 About the doorways, there is an exception to that: The Great Door from CH1. However I am unsure that it would work since both Castle Town and Card Kingdom have their own fountains and the door cannot be opened after we seal the Card Kingdom fountain. Really makes you wonder how big the Dark World will be.
thr Great Door is (presumably) open from the moment the party enters Castle Town, and it's closed (by Ralsei?) as they enter the Card Kingdom the way the black "smoke" fills the room (even with the door slightly ajar) makes me think that it's boundaries are set, not by doors themselves, but by the presence of bright light. in chapter 1, both the supply room and the unused classroom that contain Castle Town and the Card Kingdom appear to be completely dark, until Kris seals the fountain and turns on the light in the classroom now in chapter 2 we see some indicator lights in the closet and even the TV, both sources of light but neither as bright as, say, the wall lamps in the kitchen and living room, or whatever type of overhead lights are in the computer lab
I was thinking the same thing for a long time until I realized that Kris opened the door at the end of chapter 2... If the dark fountains are only stopped by light then is the whole town going to be converted until morning? Not impossible I suppose but that's a pretty big event for chapter 3 of 7.
@@guiltyflygon yeah, my thoughts exactly; insane for the point we are in the game (if only going by chapters alone - who knows how long future chapters will be?) if it really is the entire town, it could end up being a Yume Nikki-style open-ish world where you start at the Dreemurr home, and can make your way to other locations in town as the fountain's influence spreads and you progress through different areas but again, i doubt Toby and the team would go that hard so early LMAO realistically i guess just the house, maybe the front yard?
you know, about controller theory, if it would be the case, i think the nirmal controller would be knock off controller's normal brother(i mean, sane, like a normal character who is afflicted and connected to a secret boss) and visits his forgotten and crazy brother sometimes(in means that normal controller is not always "under the bed", but knock off is.) so normal controller is a sane fine person who worries about his brother who on the other hand a forgotten and abandoned crazy damn guy which he visits due to feeling pity towards him. haha, im a fucking genius * berdly face*
i think its more likely the green crayon has just been used up because both kris and asriel wear a lot of green. its probably just their favorite color
I think holiness is going to play a role in chapter 3 because Toriel is religious. She takes the kids to church and keeps the Delta Rune symbol around the house, which is a religious symbol for the monsters.
Great video! Something I thought of while watching that I thought id add- you describe the secret bosses as shunned, unused, etc. I think it's important to focus moreso on the discarded aspect (as a joker card gets literally discarded, the word itself derives from meaning literally "to reject a playing card" & spam emails often get deleted without being read). and in the ch1 opening we have the vessel sequence ending with "Your answers, your wonderful creation, will now be discarded." so I think the specific act of discarding something is more important thematically than just something being unappreciated or not used for a long time. so things like the flowers in the trash are standing out a bit more to me for that reason :)
Fair point, though at the same time every other card in the deck can also be discarded so that's not unique to the joker. Though either way I was mostly just using those words as shorthand to refer to "items that are not being used for their intended prupose" which is pretty much what we're both describing 😅
In terms of the soul power, I find that it actually has some relation to the SB. For example, the Red soul being normalcy compared to Jevil's chaos. Or, the Yellow soul being the only one that can shoot, which goes along with Spamton's favorite line: [[BIG SHOT!!!]] So, whatever the soul power is, it's not just gonna be something the boss can *do*, like the vines being lines or the green crayon drawing lines for the purple soul to jump between, as was suggested in this video. The soul power's gotta have some direct relation to the SB.
My secret boss is similar to your Yoshi one, but instead, it's Mario himself (some of the evidence listed will apply to Yoshi too, but I feel like Mario has more going for him). TL;DR: Secret Boss Mario shares a great deal with Kris, including the fact that they're controlled by a player. -The parallels to Kris and control theming are readily obvious. Both are the main characters of their games, who are forced to directly cause the death of their friends (Yoshi/Berdly) by the player. -We also can assume the game has been left unplayed for a long time (as longs as the TV has been unplugged), and the nature of it's abandonment is also similar to the situation Kris is put in. It used to be shared by Asriel and Kris, but once Asriel left for college it was left unplayed. Like Kris, Mario longs for Asriels' return. -Even though you discounted the Shadow Mantle arguement, it is worth noting that Mario does have a non-zero connection with the Holy element, since Asriel tried to repent for Kris' sin of killing Yoshi.
A mantle is also a cape which Mario is well known for having. In fact, at least in smash which we know Asriel and Kris played a version of, Mario's cape can reflect projectiles which could perhaps account for the Shadow Mantle's abilities to resist electric and holy attacks which are both projections of energy (assumedly). I don't know if Toby would go so far as to make the Mario connection super obvious for copyright reasons but I totally missed the idea of another video game character's relationships to control like we have with Kris. It's video game protagonist control ception!
I absolutely don't believe they would make a secret boss a direct reference to another game, which is why i don't believe in both theories and find them absurd.
I know skies forever blue isn't related to deltarune, but I think it would be cool if the protagonist of that game would be the secret boss. Same motif of control, as well as the concept of resetting and losing someone, which could be interesting. Plus, the green room contains what kind of looks like wires connecting to something in the back room, so maybe a game console connected to the TV?
@@guiltyflygon "Traditional gas mantle lighting uses incandescent gas mantles, or Welsbach mantles, to generate a bright, solid white light when heated by gas flame. When lit, gas mantles yield a soft, romantic light and can be used in place of electric light bulbs." A shadow mantle would do the opposite of this, like that dark bulbs, if it is a *LANTERN MANTLE* WAIT A MINUTE
Kris: *Exploring the house and looking at things while the guy controlling him makes predictions.* Toriel: "KRIS WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU? IT'S TIME FOR SCHOOL."
With the Ralsei's horns bit. It really could be more likely that Toriel kept it in the school cause. Im not a mom, but my mom just keeps a few things that Ove lost as a toddler for herself. Cause obviously she's not going to lose it, she's a whole woman when I was a stupid kid. And with how sentimental Toriel is, her stowing away keepsakes at her job. Being a frickin school, she'll just have ot stored in that closet with the grand fountain Makes sense lmao
Interesting thought that's in lone with Tieriel's characterization! I wonder why she wouldn't keep them in her own classroom though? Maybe afraid of the toddlers getting their hands on them?
I haven't finished the video yet but I keep thinking about the green dinosaur that Kris kept sacrificing. The one the priest talkes about... That poor Dino is not free to make any choices while you are riding it.
I mean flowey lacked a soul and still had determination the soul might produce determination but the body stores and contains itin some way Edit: also Alphys says that it's the monster's body that can't handle the determination "* you see unlike humans', monsters' bodies don't have enough... physical matter to take those considerations of determination their bodies started to melt" -Alphys end of true lab "monsters' physical forms can't handle "determination" like humans' can. with too much determination, our bodies begin to break down. everyone's melted together." -Alphys' entry 17 (cut)
This is definitely a topic I plan to cover in the video but the short of it for now is... Flowey was directly injected with determination (DT) from one of the human souls, which would imply that souls contain DT and not bodies though that situation was far from normal. That said, we have no idea whether Kris may have been injected with DT at some point... perhaps in a certain bunker? Their silhouette does glow red on the overworld when they're in danger which might be circumstantial evidence in this theory's favor. I also want to challenge Alphys's assumptions about DT and monsters a bit from Undertale because the examples she draws from are all cases of when monsters are near death and dying. Given monsters poof into dust it isn't strange to think that maybe their bodies start to destabilize in the period before death which may explain how monsters in Deltarune can seemingly wield DT while in Alphys's experiments they couldn't. After all, when a monster absorbs a human soul they don't melt, they get stronger. And that's after putting a DT pumping machine into their bodies!
My own personal theory is, the secret boss will be nothing shown here, not even something you as the player can see in the light world, right now. It is a radio. Now here's my reasoning: what killed the radio? The tv. For news and entertainment, Radios became a lot less relevant, needed, or cared about. Sure, there still are some, but imagine this: Toriel had a radio, which is a common household item especially in earlier times, and in the current day, radios are almost a rare household item. Once Toriel got a TV, the radio became obsolete. The Cathode Tvs would completely outpace the Radio in usage, until eventually the radio gets tossed somewhere, forgotten amongst packaging. We know from spamton sweepstakes that "The Cathode's Crew" and "Tenna" had likely done something bad to this "Mike" character. Perhaps, bear with me, they *Rooked* this "Mike" fellow, using the formal verb version of rook, "to defraud, overcharge, or swindle". Basing this on both the tv themes and real world connections, and spamton dialogue, I think the Radio makes sense. In addition, there have been radio Scams before, and they do like to Spam ads, are you getting at what I'm thinking? Now for other points: Themes of control and freedom. Well, Radios are often to be controlled, with various settings depending on the model. Freedom? Its a voice in a box, forgotten and unheard. Will you let the voice free? Green soul mode? ...my weakest point, I'm not sure. Theres probably something someone can think of, though. Purple soul mode? Maybe the variation is gonna be Wavy lines, instead of just straight lines, like radio waves. Other shtuff? I feel like, with the amount of potential connections, its almost a waste to not use a radio SOMEWHERE, if not a secret boss.
You constantly keep calling it a "TV-World", which obviously would have a connection with TV, but actually, as Toby Fox said in the development update, it is called "the world of cutting-edge entertainment", so i don't think it is exactly bound to only TV related things.
In the dev update Toby is uses "a world of cutting-edge entertainment" as a descriptor for the world, but I don't think that's necessarily what the the world's name will actually be akin to "Card Kingdom" or "Cyber City". I do think that there will definitely be non-TV related items in the world like the cup of swords present in the picture of the green room that comes from the jar of pencils on Asriel's desk... but the major players in each chapter have been related to the main theme so far, which seems clear to me to be TV or at least show biz in this case.
Here's a reminder, in undertale the Yellow soul power was actually the cell phone Frisk had that was firing the energy shots. Alphyss says so I think during the fight that she upgraded your phone without you seeing it. In Deltarune if the next chapter users the Green soul powers it doesn't require Undyne giving you a spear as Kris didn't need to have a cell phone that fired energy blasts to have the yellow soul power activate.
I personally think it might be the final boss of asriels videogame i know its a reference to undertale but what if you saw some sort of glitchy creature with no textures it wouldnt really be like spamton it would probably be more resentful for being abandoned. It would probably want kris soul to "complete itself" and when it see's ralsei just before the boss it probably thinks hes asriel. I think the soul colour will be green because i think it would fit with the chaotic attacks of the final form of asriel with the bullets flying at you. Thank you if anyone has read this😅
This gave me a thought. You know chess theory, and how there's 1 queen and 1 kind per team in chess, but 2 rooks? What if it's Mike & Tenna (&Tenna sounds like Antenna), and they are both bosses? Maybe the fight at the same time, or maybe they fight us at different points?
I think the secret boss is the flowers that asgore gives toriel, because it is a feeling of rejection. A positive thing that is thrown away, ignored. (I think chapter 3 is going to be split into the kitchen with its own theme, and the living room. It gives a reason why flowers would be there. Flowers are displayed in vases in many houses and usually at the kitchen table.)
explanatiomn to end of video: residual determination, at the end of the pacifist route asriel has enough residual determination to stay asriel for quite some time
Oh my god, I just rewatched your last Deltarune video yesterday and was wondering whatever happened to the teased part 2! Can't wait to hear your thoughts on such an interesting topic!
Imagine Kris gets Locked in the Cage kinda like how he caged us at the end of Chapter 1 making him feel how we felt during that point helpless alone no way of getting out at least until your party members (Susie Ralsei and maybe Toriel) comes to save you leading into a 4 Party Member Secret Boss Fight Oh also I just realized people were wanting Ralsei wearing the Hat again even since chapter 2 was done so why not for plot purposes Ralsei dons on the hat to disguise himself from Toriel in chapter 3
This was cool to listen to, I haven't seen many videos analyzing what the third hidden boss could be, so this was very interesting. I like the theory about the crayon, but we'll have to wait to find out if any of them are true!
see, here is what my idea on what the secret boss is going to be: i'm a firm believer of the reverse genocide boss theory, with jevil and spamton being clear foils to sans and mettaton. everyone thinks the next will be undyne, no the next secret boss will be a muffet foil as she is next in line and we already have a good reason for a muffet foil to be here, what'll it be? a cooking channel that used to be popular but the introduction of streaming and lack of interest in cooking channels lead to low ratings, forced to put on this show for people that don't watch for ages. but she still believes there may be a chance for her to become popular again and is especially jealous of the other shows. leading into the seven deadly sins theory with her being envy. she plans to make the ultimate cake for a chance to get viewers and that's how you meet her, you'll go on a quest to find ingredients for her all across tv land. but when you get all her ingredients and the cake is done, she found out it did nothing. this is when you fight her, she just decides if that didn't work nothing will. until she gets the idea, she decides that if cooking doesn't work, she will screw the rules and wonder why she just doesn't have freedom to create her own way to get viewers and she decides it's time to do what she wants and believes a murder will 100% bring in viewers, after all. who wouldn't tune in to a tragedy so she desperately fights the fun gang, in a desperate attempt to not be forgotten. now, you may be wondering, where is the connection to kris like jevil and spamton have? here's the thing, she'll have a connection to susie instead, maybe her desperate attempts to not be forgotten resonates with susie especially throughout all the encounters, and since susie is beginning to have a change of heart, it will make a good arc for Susie to show how far she's gotten and this secret boss will end up joining the fun gang as an item because susie won't let her be forgotten and all alone as Susie was treated most of her life.
I can see commercials/ infomercials being a possibility since most people don't like them (even to this day, there's a loathing for adds), and many older ones have even become lost media because few people would record/ preserve them. Only issue: that was kind of Spamton's schtick.
My theory on the SOUL powers is that instead of the SOUL powers being in reverse order of when they appear, it's in reverse order of the specific bosses that use them, which actually doesn't include Muffet. Instead, it just skips to Undyne with the green SOUL power. I'm probably explaining this in the worst way I possibly can, but, uh..... Sorry if it doesn't make sense?
Spamton reads the characteristics of Spamton and Jevil in a Q&A from the Spamton sweepstakes. He also mentions two other characteristics for unknown people. These characteristics are represented by "[thunder/light] [dark/star]"
This was a really great, comprehensive outline of the potential candidates. Any thoughts on the chapter 3 secret boss being in line with Spookydood’s “Woody Theory?” It has invaded my mind like a brainworm and I can’t stop thinking about all the ways it could work.
It's insane, but also the level of insane I can see actually happening. If you watch my chapter 3 prediction video I already think there's thematic set-up for this boss being a duo so... F R I E N D I N S I D E OF M E
Theres alot of emphasis on old photographs depicting happier times that have been lost so what if the secret boss is a camera - still images from points in life fits with purple soul energy
What if it’s the stove? The stove goes unused because toriel uses fire magic, and purple soul could work like hopping between each one of the little circle thingies. The cooking show part you pointed out earlier could be it’s link to tv.
To help the flower bouquet fit into the TV theming, I have two ideas. They could either have a gardening show. Something I don’t think is particularly common anymore. Or it could have a show like The Bachelor or Bachelorette. A reality tv romance where contestants are kicked off if they don’t receive a rose or flower.
Ooh, that's clever. The roses in those dating shows always represent "love" which aligns with Asgore's goal in giving Toriel the flowers as well. (unlike the sort of actor's praise or congratulations in my example) The flower's purpose, to convey love, was taken away from it by Toriel, leading the plot in an interesting direction. I could see the character manifesting either as the host of the show, who's obsessed with getting Toriel back on the show for "ratings" or the like, or a player who feels like they were "dumped" by Toriel unceremoniously, where the reality show format is entirely their delusion. Like, they genuinely believe love is as easy as passing a flower to another person. A reality TV show player/host also fits in with how it seems chapter 3 is going to work, with us jumping between channels/shows for different set-pieces. There is an overall disdain for such reality TV shows, despite them being popular, so I wonder if maybe that will come into play. Very, very interesting.
One thing people usually dont get is that all secret bosses are themed based on their dark world´s theme,such as Jevil = Jester card because he is in a card themed dark world,Spamton = spam because he is in a computer related dark world,so,a flower being chapter´s 3 secret boss doesnt make sense,since a Flower is not a related theme to TV´s,and i think the secret boss will be something rejected that is a part of a TV(such as a broken controller,or anything like that) Obs:i think chapter´s 3 secret boss will be related to Undyne the undying,something similar as with Spamton and Mettaton Neo
I'd say it sort of depends. If the theme is TV and TV accessories then I do agree that the flowers would be very out of place. The only issue is that the Cyber world was already focused on electronics, screens, and robots, so I don't know why Toby would choose to go that direction. The alternative is that the theme is more based on movies/movie making which I think does make more sense with what we've seen (the cowboy outfits, noir style Shadowmen, etc.) in which flowers DO actually fit rather well, as they're often given to performers after a show. The flowers could manifest as a forgotten actor, or, an actor under a harsh contract (hence the themes of control) and they would fit pretty well. It all really depends on what the theme actually is, which of course we can't really determine at this stage.
I believe the dark Fountain can only cover whatever room and adjacent room's door that is open. As far as outside the house I'm not sure how far it would stretch but I believe every room in the house that the door is open will be a part of the next chapter
My guesses: a tv guide, the tv remote, an as-seen-on-tv *product* (not the ad itself) or some outdated tech like a cassette. The cassette is my fav choice of these.
i love this video! while i don't agree with every point made, you did a great job articulating and explaining everything ❤ deltarune theorists are another breed of great tbh 💪 also im sorry about what happened to your audio, it must have been such a pain to re-record it
I personally think the secret boss will be something like programs for 1-6 year olds, maybe with the characters design of mangle from fnaf but with a baby doll head on the end. I think this because each secret boss has an item, devilsknife for jevil, deal maker for spamton, and each boss weapon has a link to the 3 main character: devilsknife for Susie, and deal maker for Kris. So the third will have to be ralsei, so why not be something like a scarf? So that’s why I think that’s the character design. And you might be thinking: “but what about the other 4 chapters?”. Well I think Noelle and berdly will have their chapters where they’re chapters where they’re in the original group, and the 3rd chapter? Well I think it’s Catti, why would this random character have a picture? Well I think she will come in play in chapter 6. And the final chapter? I think everyone will be in the team at once.
Unrelated to the video warning! There are 7 chapters for deltarune and 7 different soul colours in undertale and since the secret bosses of each chapter uses soul modes Which means some chapter we may may finally see what the orange soul colour will work like since we know what every other soul colour does
