Let's see if we can get this NVIDIA 4090 Cable to MELT! 

I have a hard time believing AMD decided to not use it now a month from release(at most). It must have been a design choice early on.

Hi Jay, you also should test it within the build. The adapter will touch the side panel in most cases and the side panel will apply quite some force on the terminal and contact points increasing contact resistance due to misalignment.

Best way to figure out your side panel compatibility with any cable is to find out what your maximum air cooler height is for your case. Find out your GPU height and minus the maximum cooler height and you'll see how much cable bend room you'll have or to see if the CableMod 90 degree connector fits.

Few things to note: -You're using an open bench, so there's less buildup of heat as would be found inside a case. -You were only bending the wires at the end of the connector and NOT putting a side load on those connectors, which includes the pins. If you had a side panel pushing on the connector, that itself would apply some load to the connector, increasing the chances that it could start to run away. The main issue you get melting in these connectors isn't due to the wire itself, but due to the resistance within the male and female pin not having enough surface contact to transfer that amount of current. Resistance is a function of the gauge of the wire and just as a thicker gauge wire can handle more load, less surface area connecting two pins together would mean it would reduce the load it can take before getting too hot due to resistance. Once the resistance and heat builds up, it runs away as the heat increases the resistance therefore making it hotter, creating more resistance, etc. It effectively becomes a runaway fire hazard once it goes over a certain threshold. The weakest part of all of these setups is usually the pins connectors. The wires generally have enough current capacity that this would almost never happen to the wire itself before it happened to the pins where it connects. The pins are simply the weakest point in these situations due to their small size and also the ability for them to be bent/angled therefore reducing the surface contact between them. A bit rambly, but just my thoughts on the situation.

using an open test bench for this may be difficult to reproduce results. need to find out which cases are being used along with the other variables like jay was saying.

dear cable mod: thank you! no seriously I've used your products in the past, I built my own sleeves in the past, you guys are the best. I am so glad that you took this issue very seriously, for consumers, and for you. it's crazy to think that people will go with aftermarket cables because they are safer now! it's crazy, but it's a branding coup, and you guys deserve credit for it.

Those CableMod cables look SOOOOOOOOO good. Thank you for all the work you do!

At this rate 5 years from now we will be plugging our GPUs into the 220 line that we use in our basements to run our clothes dryers. "Hey man! I can't game right now. It's laundry day." "I gotta wait until my clothes are dry."

The glass transition temp of the nylon used in the connector is probably 80C. Once it reaches that temp, the connector loses its strength and the pins have the potential to move out of place causing further temp increases until the point where it catches fire. Also keep in mind that the connector will get much hotter in a warm case than an open testbench

The heat problem is going to be tied to the surface area of the connection between the connector pins (and the conductor size themselves). As wire size goes down, resistance goes up and a video card trying to pull high amps through a connection that isn't making good contact will heat up fast.

My opinion is that instead of aggressive bend but ultimately no tension on the connection from the wire, add some kind of tension from pulling the wire like some people might do when cable managing inside a case

One big oversight here.... Open test bench vs closed computer case.... Ambient temps will rise higher over time inside a sealed case. If your open test bench ambient is low 20's in celsius, and the ambient inside a case running a 4090 at full tilt for a few hours is say in the 40's celsius (or higher), then that will cause the connector to be way hotter. I dont think you will get it to fail with it on an open test bench. I say try again, but next time put it in a mid or full tower tempered glass sides with the usual computer's fan configuration (not the perfect fan configuration that you would use because you have been building PCs for years). or better still, everyone that reached out to you, get thier system spec, including fcooling system (number of fans and push or pull config) and then document each system and create a system in a similar case and repeat the test... Whats the bet your results couldnt be more polar different. 20:19 if that had happened on an open air test bench, then its likely this video wouldnt have been made as the recall would already be happening and your video would be about the recall instead.

I think it might be a good idea to recreate this in a case. as a case would have a warmer internal temperature.

You should try to bend the cable after you plug it and not before, that way the pins inside the connector may stick out of socket a little on one side and recreate the issue.

Thanks Jay.... & the team of course for the efforts & clarifications....

Thanks for the nice video and for taking the risk! I believe from what I know about connectors to recreate the real situation you should keep the strength on the connector, not bend the cable and after plug it with no external force, you should keep some force in the connector to simulate the situation inside the case (where the case is always pushing the cables). Any torque in any direction to the connector will do the job I guess. The initial bending is probably not affecting at all, you probably will never really damage the connections to the pins with that.

Video Request: Trying the cable in different popular pc cases to see how aggressive the bend has to be to fit the side panel of the case. Could definitely show the differences between how NVIDIAs adapter fits VS the cable that cablemod, Corsair, ect supply. I am debating on doing an upgrade to 40 series but this cable is definitely making me hold off until this is figured out.

thank you for this video. I ordered the cablemod cable that ends with 4x 8 pin, the safest option before buying the actual card: 600w/4

Agree with Leo, set this test up in a small box room with only a small window for ventilation, use a closed case with maybe less than ideal or average cooling/air flow. These are the scenario's that might get you in trouble. Using an open test bench rig in a big open studio is so far away from what the average pc gamers set up will be, its like comparing oranges and apples.

Ltt posted a video showing a 4090 pulling more wattage in cyberpunk 2077 than in stress tests most likely due to the added ray tracing. Could this make enough difference?

cablemod genuinely sounds like its going to be a lifesaver

Hey Jay, thanks for this, but: OPEN the 12PIN plug and see how the cables are soldered and how thin the metall of the plug is compered to the soldered cable, Igors Lab has made a video in german about it, search for it, please stay on that, thanks again :)

We are Teclab and made the tests (yoi called us Galax). We run more than than 25, considering more than 12 minutes overload (rising 300W per step), and reached 127 Celsius. Neither connector or cable melted, and it's still working. Then we installed bad mounting (bad assembly, both horizontal and vertical, then temperature increasing over the time, what can cause damage and melt. About 150 min testing alive. Thanks

Do it in a pc case, route the cables like you would and see what are the results Edit: from what I've seen it's not the cable itself but the pins and connections to the 12V power connector on the gpu that are causing this

Like I mentioned in your last video, I don't think it's the bending of the cable but rather the rounding/ovaling/enlarging of the female side of the adapters and cables which can be done when plugging it in or bending the cables after it's been plugged in.

The Problem is NOT the plug itself. IgorsLAB made a great Video about that. The cable that's provided with the cards is just really bad. These really thick cables a soldered to very very thin soldering pads inside. The cables in the middle are each soldered to two pads, but the outer ones are only soldered to one pad each. The pads literally just snap off by bending the thick cables. That's why a dedicated cable doesnt have the same fault.

According to igorsLAB the problem is inside the 12vhpwr connector itself, especially the solderpoints and far too thin bridges. You would have seen it after cutting that side open! Other than that the standard itself isn't the problem so most native 12vhpwr cables from power supplies seem to be safe (haven't looked into cablemod). So it lies inside the adapter only

how much hotter would it get inside an actual case instead of an open air bench?

Hi Jayz, there are one possible situation you might want to test. When build the system, it make sense for people not to pre-bend the adaptor cable, and let the side panel / cable management to form the bend, thinking it will give the biggest radius. However, doing that will put stress constantly at the connector, result as a potentially worse situation. In addition, when the bend is formed by pressing the side panel / stretching the cable behind the motherboard tray, the connector is not guarded by hand compare to the pre-bend method as you show in your video.

You should try a stabilty test for hours on a intensive amp draw like 600 wats for a few hours see if the connectors get hot or burn like others .

The two original 4090's with melted 16 pin adapters have a BIOS power target of 450 W and a power limit of 600 W. I believe the issue is when the adapter is used at its maximum design load of 600 W with uneven draw across the pins. More testing is needed, and inside a case where the ambient temperature would be much higher than room temperature.

Hi jay, I know others have said this but I think testing in a case would possibly make a difference. I studied in automotive electrical systems and occasionally build custom harnesses and one thing I am aware of is location of high draw connection in relation to their surroundings can make quite a difference. For example if this test was recreated within a case then what you may find is a much higher increase due to the lack of ventilation. In addition to this over a longer period heat reflecting off the case itself could also increase temps beyond a safe limit. Another scenario and a one I have run into in PC building is fans creating, basically dead zone where heat is trapped by the actual airflow creating a low pressure zone within a case.

For what I have seen, it is not the bent of the cable but the strain in the connector proper. Since the connector has sleeves of metal inside that have a seam, and open cut, if you put strain in the connector (not the cable) sideways (towards any of the shorter sides of the connector) the internal pins seem to open the sockets and then get hot. In sum: the problem here is not the cable but the connector, somewhat like the USB 3.0 internal header that tends to break, these tend to burn. Try to make this test with the cable managed in a very tight way, so the cable is pulling from the connector sideways.

Probably the only way to make it melt is make the resistance at the connector high enough. Like not plugging it in all the way and the internal connectors barely touching the graphics card. Or maybe putting the plug in skewed so that only half of the pins are touching. If the reason for the melting was the smaller gauge cables it would melt at the cable as smaller surface area=more resistance. You should do collab with ElectroBoom with this. He will surely melt it. Anyway it might be defect in manufacturing also as jay said.

In addition to what other have been saying, i.e test in an actual case, you must also consider ambient temperature. I don't have AC, and sometimes in the summer I've been playing with 30°C room temperature, and I can tell you, the temperature of the system is much different, so I'm sure it's the same for the cables.

What about putting some stress on the plugged in connector? That might be happening if you try to put your side panel on and it will probably put some stress on the pins or even pull the connector out slightly.

I've been waiting on a 90 degree connector since I picked up my 3090ti.. finally!!!! Thank you for that information.

This was fast

I think a more accurate and probably higher failure rate would be to bend the cable WHILE it is plugged in, putting more pressure on the pins themselves which seems to be the point of failure. I understand you may not want to do that while plugged into a 4090 as you don’t want to damage the 4090’s connector but maybe plug it into something else. I think stress being put on the connector while plugged in is the main weakness of this connector here.

Jay I'm a miner i came across this a few times, with a poor connection/poor contact causing sparks that melts the plastic, you need to fine a defective plug to simulate the melt down and the power supply won't shutdown till a short happens. As always it comes down to quality.

Jay this is an extremely common issue in the 3d printing community, its not that heat builds up over time, its that suddenly something isn't getting the power its supposed to the system so it sends more power and it starts to thermal run away. This can be caused by Air Gaps between the pins on the male and female side, or something with the card itself. Your test might not be able to cause the power pull that is causing this.

I wonder if this is why EVGA chose to put the connector on the BACK of the 3090 Ti. It seemed like an odd choice at the time but now it makes sense.

Good plug for CableMod (pun intended). I've used their pre-made kits for a few builds and man, they are great quality. Also, my EVGA G2 1300 watt psu has 6 vga connectors on it.

Glad to see something I suggested in a previous video that cablemod were already beginning the manufacture!

Hey Jay, have you thought about that there could have been constant pressure on the cable bend from the glass of the side panel? That could both keep the bend in a tighter position, and also forced the contact pins slightly out of alignment at the same time. Then run the card in an enclosed case with inadequate ventilation and you both a more serious problem and more realistic scenario. Not many people do this on test benches.

14:50 _Do not do this._ Different PSUs often have different pinouts. It isn't even safe to assume that PSUs from the same manufacturer will have the same pinout. Plugging a set of cables with a different pinout to the PSU can fry whatever you plug it into.

Working as a electrical fault tracer i seen a lot of "blown terminals" (female terminal expanded) directly from the manufacturer, unfortunately, its really hard to prove afterwards as you would need both connectors(card+pigtail) in a "untouched" condition. But if you just want to know, you just use a pin of the correct size and probe the terminal(female) and check/feel the resistance.

You should do in case, or slightly push or pull on the wire to simulate being in a case, the problem is when put pressure on the connector it causes the connector to have less surface contact on the pin connections.

This is likely also more of a long term issue: if that connector stays at 60 degrees for hours, it's going to become a little more flexible and eventually bend more and more and contact in the connector will worsen up to a point it really heats up and melts. Honestly they should switch to higher voltages like 24V maybe even 36-48V. The amps we push through that 12V rail is getting a bit crazy. 500W at 12V is a whopping 40A, that's a lot for any connector to handle especially ones that just clips on like that.

I think the most common "bend config" will be putting it in a regular atx case and trying to force the side panel back on over the adapter cable. If they don't know that much they also might not know how many fans to use in the case if they did manage to close it.

Is there any difference between this cord and the one for the 3090 ti besides the extra 4th cable???Because I got mine against the glass in my case but I don’t have to force my side panel on.

Seems the other comments are right, try it with the connector / cable under constant tension? Like it was operating while pressed against the side of a case, or with cable management pulling on the cable?

Thank you for showing us an attempt to recreate the failures that have been cropping up. Glad to hear AMD is not going this route with the connector, but I’m concerned since they probably already have the product standing by ready to ship. I think they have the product announcement for the RX7000 series set for next week?

I think one thing to you might be missing is time. It might only be a few degrees but extra heat over time, especially inside a case where the heat is likely to be higher could cause additional stress or additional movement as parts shrink and expand from heat changes at different rates.

Put one in a system today, Lian Li XL case, and still had issues with space. Worked fine until needed to place side panel back on. Side panel was causing the cable to "slightly" sag as it was pressed up on it. Then decided to work the cable up and over the card, panel still pressing against the cable but essentially holding it in place. No issues now, but man was it a pain in the behind.

Love the video, man. Do your thing man.

"We gotta try it" - same thing Nvdia said as they released cards with dangerous connectors

The CableMod 12VHPWR cable (like Jay showed in this video) come in two types - terminating into 3 x PCIE or 4 x PCIE at the PSU end. I got the 4 x PCIE for my AX1200i.

I have the win 101 case and the glass was right up against the bent cable and it was fine for over a week using the adapter from the box, Corsair 1000w psu with no Corsair cable. After seeing the burnt cable, I took the glass off and straightened the cable to make sure it does not happen. I been using my pny 4090 since day one as well

A note on cables, the plating on the pins will slowly oxidize over time getting worse and worse eventually going into thermal runaway. mining risers using Molex will often work fine for months until the +12V pin is a dull dark grey.. and then melt just that wire.

I love the frequent uploads so god damn much!!

Would like to see cable mod add 2 more 90° designs. Going out lengthwise to the 12 pin with both latch orientations. Having all 4 would cover almost any build with any card, and if the 12 pin does eventually get full integration with all the card manufacturers, will be damned near required of the psu and cable manufacturers.

Hey jay, I’ve watched this video of your testing and the other video where was talking about the connectors melting, might be worth testing it’s in an case, due to the pressure caused by the side panel on the case it would be bending the power connector on the gpu as well as the cable, so the pins may not be connected probably which then may cause the issue of melting connectors.

Huge ups to CableMOD really nice products always!

Tbh they should just use 3 normal PCIE connectors. If it would look the same as the motherboard connector, it would be just fine, maybe put it on the right side so it's out of sight

I think a good explanation would be that the cable was not fully plugged in, so that the pins only make partial contact. That way, more resistance between the junction of the connectors will definitely heat the connector part up. There's probably loads of people that can make such a mistake by accident.

Hey Jay, most of the images I've seen showed the cable bending the other direction, or down in a standard horizontal configuration, may be useful to try bending it the other way ans testing.

Jay, the problem occurs not from the bend itself but from a combination of things that tug the plug out of the card just enough that it still has contact but on a smaller surface area. So the card still works but sucks on power thru smaller contact on the pins and causes them to get red hot. Imagine the scenario being like a loose battery contact wire on your car battery. It may have some contact but not full contact which can cause spots with high heat in the reduced contact area. There may be just faulty cables coming out from manufacturing and if you're not one of those people, you have nothing to worry about. Or maybe some people don't plug in the cables tightly enough or the stress on the cable pulls them out just enough. Try testing by pulling out the cables just enough that there's still contact and reduced area to see at what point it starts to rapidly overheat under load.

jay: wants to test under usual user conditions also jay: tests on a 200$ test bench

It is not so much the bending of the wires but the pressure on the plug itself. Attaching the plug over and over again and/or putting pressure on the connection itself will reduce the contact area between the male pins on the GPU and the female pins on the plug. Smaller contact area means more electricity going through a smaller area which increases heat and melts the connector around the metal if it gets hot enough.

You measured the actual cable temp but notice how hot it is around the connector. When closed into case, the heat will start to affect the connector. Unfortunately there was not seen what was the max temp FLIR registered but from color scale it was just beside the connector. What you have proved is that in open case everything is just fine ;)

Hi Jay. Would you please consider building it all inside the case? It will be higher temp there

Ever thought about bad crimped contacts? Or a too lose connection between the metal parts, could be caused by bending, too? There are a lot of amps going through those thin cables and connectors, combined with small arcs or higher resistance, this is nuts!

Might be variance in the adapter, e.g. uneven wire gauge or crimping issue. Also you should try to run it inside a not-completely-well ventilated (but reasonable) case. These things can add up.

were can i get that cablemod cable from? i cant find it on there website? can i have a link to the area were you can design that cable?

16:50 - It's likely populated because they are using a similar production line as ones that will end up in normal 12-pin cables that will be with ATXv3 PSUs that will be manufactured. It was likely easier to have the leads just trimmed/shoved inside and hidden, than have an entire assembly line for omitting those.

I wonder if putting consistent pressure on the "bend" of the cable (such as the panel of a case, maybe the user had to give it a little "umph" to close the door) would make any difference over days or a week?

Props for risking a 4090. One thing that could be happening and ive had this happen with a wall outlet is thay if the plug isnt properly seated or wires are bent and there are gaps between the pins it will cause the electricity to arc between them and that will also heat up the plug

Excellent video, Jayz!

I think it would cause a failure/ more heat if you were to insert the connector straight and then bend the wiring after connected. It appears as though the pin damage is occurring due to the female terminal getting distorted by the male terminal. if the cabling is pre bent the pins/ terminals will still seat straight.

AMD moving away from this is such a smart move. Can't wait to see what they release and am hopefully they deliver as I'm itching for almost any excuse to move away from nVidia and Intel at this point.

I'm sure the RMA process will be a headache. Nvidia is going to blame your PSU, case config, or user error. Too many outs for them

There are probably a few variables to how it happened and mo info is needed. Some have already suggested a side bend test but yeah its hard to know what to test since this is new.

Jay, could you make a video talking about pigtails PCIe related to the 4000 series. Thanks and love the videos.

Oh my god the 90 degree adapter. I've been asking for something like this forever. We're gonna need water cooled power connectors soon. I think vertical mounting gpus needs to be standard now. they're so big and heavy you have to put a stand on it to keep it from sagging.

I think 2 plugs is fine, like most PSUs have that connector where it terminates into 2 6+2 Pci-e connectors, each of which should handle 150W so that means the cable could, in theory, support 300W. So the Corsair cable which ends on 2 300W plugs for the PSU, should provide the 600W on the new plug needs to power the card.

Hi Jay, love your vids. Also one big variable is its a open test bench, if it was closed in a less/poor air flow cabinet temps could be near 70 Deg C or more. Dont test it, I dont want you to ruin your 4090, but reaching 55 in an open test bench in a 23 ambient, it says it most definately will not survive in a hotter environment. Can you check the material of the connector and at what temp it melts ? that will tell us what temp it is reaching in the user`s cabinet.

You need something pulling down on the cable or pushing on it putting forced and stress on the connector. In a case cables will sometimes be barely long enough to reach or the sidepanel will push against the card. Also remember the ambient temperature in side a case is much hotter than an open air test bench.

I think you missing a situation of not fully plugged connector, if there is tiny bit of space between connector and pin it will arc at this amonu of power. It might be bad fit that causes it to melt, since arc will produce incredibly high temperature.

Here's a small thing that I'd like you to know: Thinner wires and pigtails make it less likely for the connector to fail, not more likely. That's because of their higher resistance, which forces current balance between the individual pins of the connector and prevents the setup from violating the connector specs. It's got the highest chance of failure when all other wires and connectors in the system are extremely low resistance (thick wires, good connections) and the 12VHPWR connector is the only weak point in the power delivery. This will prevent "accidental" current balancing due to the wire resistance, which means that even small problems with the 12VHPWR's connection resistance will result in large current imbalances and therefore connector melting. (If one pin has a dodgy connection and therefore high resistance, the current will necessarily flow "around" it through the other good pins, overloading them in the process.) You've got the best chance of seeing it actually fail by using the adapter together with the shortest cablemod PCIe cables you have (no pigtails), together with a PSU that only has a single 12V rail. That combination will turn any resistance variation of the connector's pins into a huge current imbalance.

Pigtails wont change much on the connector bit. I bet the problem is open test bench vs a tight fit against (probably) plastic/glass, which insulates the point where the cable touches, plus hot air from the gpu being circulated around the cable. Open air test bench is kind of the best case scenario here, apart from blowing a fan directly at the connector.

Jay can you do a inside case test since it will run a lot hotter and a more real case problems ?

@JayzTwoCents Could have tested the Cable Mod cable to see the difference in temp between the two.

I looked at some pics on Google regarding these accidents. Just a thought. High temps could temper the metal to dilate and shrink in a way that can facilitate electric arcs, therefore melting.

it should be noted that just the one benchmark might not actually stress the power draw as much as you would expect, you probably need a small combination of games that can flick the power draw up, such as through free-spinning framerates in a loading screen for example. Also the conditions when used inside a closed case could increase the temperatures by over 20 degrees, especially if the cable were to be contacting the hot backplate, in fact even just the limited airflow causing the VRMs to run much hotter could be all you need for a 100+ degree socket.

that cable-mod 90 should have an RGB little 50mm fan on it 😁 give the plug 60 connection cycles and then test it again

60c is still 40c over ambient, in a closed case, with a bunch of cables crumped together and basically no airflow, it could get much hotter. It would be interesting from a purely theoretical point of view to know what temperature the plastic melts at, to know if it's even achievable with just heat or if it must involve arcing or fakes.

16:39 perhaps they were left bare incase it gets too hot, starts to melt, which could perhaps make a connection to each other, sending a signal to the gpu which in turns tells the gpu to draw less power? MAYBE?

You're the best, support from France 🇫🇷 ❤ (I'm waiting my cablemods for my 4090)

I think you're going to have to try it in a case. I think that if the cable was to touch the side panel, then that would add pressure to the connection that could cause higher temps. I think you're onto the right track with this cable and the issues it has though.