LiteLok X1 Moto - How Angle Grinder resistant is it? 

Yep, that was my thoughts when planning the video, but I only clamped it for the attack on the shackle, I tried to replicate it being 'loose' as much as i could for the main cut, but making allowances for filming.

How much more resistant to an angle grinder is the X3 - it’s a fair wedge more and heavier ?

Scissor jack opens these up straight away

And the battery ones. Are generally not as powerful

@@mancavemoto now imagine the litelock x3 xd 😂 even with the best dewalt 60v flexvolt battery ur still going to need al least half an ouhr and multiple discs and batteries because most of the battery powered angle grinders have antikickback if they feal too much force againts the disc then they turn off so ye and thats all just for the x1 lock for the x3 it takes 1ouhr to cut it fully by that time police coud have been there 3 times u coud have whent home and brought out ur baseball bat and riot pepper spray xd 😂

I bought the X3 which I use on my ST1300 Pan European and my e-bike. It’s a great lock and worth buying just for peace of mind.

@@mancavemoto there now using 54v dewalt grinders

@@Maykay1312 It doesn't take a half hour to cut man what are you talking about? They're really good locks but come on. Don't exaggerate them or fall for marketing. I've seen the X3 get cut in about 5 mins.

I went to buy one to do a comparison, but the only one I could find locally was a £60 Oxford lock, and I didn’t fancy chucking that much money down the drain…

Thanks!

Handy!

Jesus where do you carry all that. That’s my only hassle is carrying all those locks they add up to some weight in my backpack and my back starts hurting.

@oskarvnz I know what you mean, I stick it all in a bag on the pannier rack. Let the bike take some responsibility for it's safety 😆🤘🏻

I have now got both the x1, x3 and the hiplock 1000D. Heavy investment, but I have more than one object to secure😎

Yep, my thoughts exactly

I think often thats the best you can hope for, they'll either no bother or move onto the next one when its evident that its going to take longer than expected.

Thanks

Thanks, thts what I was trying to do. It did surprise me how tough it actually was

Good point, if you take into account the disc changes you’ll be adding about 3 to four minutes to the actual cut time

@@mancavemoto Thanks, Tony

Diamond wheels generally don’t cut faster, if anything they are a little slower than fibre slitting discs. The difference is as you point out they last longer, so in this case would not have required changing saving the time that took

@@mancavemoto Thank you for your thoughts about the use of a diamond wheel on a bike lock. I asked elsewhere as well and you both agree that using a diamond disk would have no real advantage for a thief, probably counter productive for them. Some good news, one less thing to worry about.

IT does seem it

I beg to differ. The diamond covered discs (the ones used for masonry) will cut through these locks like knife through butter in a matter of seconds.

Thanks, and yet definitely a tough nut in terms of angle grinder attack

Thanks Roger, indeed that was my thoughts.

I living in Neighborhood to American General Consulate in Germany Frankfurt. No Bikethief has any Chance to steal my Bike. Some Cameras from the Security looks in my Property. Police needs just one Minute ti reach me. This great Bikelock resists till the Police is there

I Disagree America has the longest sentences for crimes in the world and still has more people locked up than any other country per capita. Its better to train people and give them better opportunities to gain meaningful employment to reduce crime like the Netherlands which has the lowest re-offending in Europe

@@kurtismoore476 let’s keep giving them a slap on the wrist so they repeat offend then 😂

Police don't set the punishments, the government and justice system do.

@@firstname4865true. But the government or justice system doesn’t investigate or arrest do they? In fact, neither do the Police!

Not even close. We've been doing that for millennia mate. Meaningful consequences are needed but the only way to stop theft is to create a healthy society.

Thanks, Its a popular belief that diamond cutting discs are faster, however they are designed to last longer and do not cut quicker. I asked advice from a steel fabricator and engineer who advised using 'standard' fibre slitting discs as they are the quickest at cutting steel.

@@mancavemoto It depends on material. If you're trying to cut ceramics, diamond disc is *also* much faster in addition to making higher quality cut. As we don't know what exact material LiteLok is made of, it would make sense to try multiple different discs to figure out which tool you should use. Using incorrect disc would be like trying to pick a disk detainer lock using pin tumbler lock picks and then declaring that disk detainer locks cannot be picked at all.

Well, yeah....but I could get through it with oxy acetylene or a plasma cutter, but you have to look at what the scrote bags are actually using. They're using nicked battery grinders with basic cutting or even grinding discs in the main as these will very much get through less robust locks, no problem.

That's the affect of the armouring attacking the disc, you can see it happen in other cut tests on this lock.

Bikes n Beards has review of this lock too and they had to get generator powered heavyduty tool to cut trough it.

there's a vid on here where someone used a high powered AG, but it still took a while to cut thru!

Diamond is just for stone,tiles and concrete.I tried to cut metal with a diamonddisc ,you´re just hitting metal on metal.

Thanks Jamie, you too. Looking forward to catching up

It sure is

You're welcome!

Thanks, I’ve passed the info on

Cheers

Yep a battery powered grinder is likely to be slower. I’m demonstrating that it’s resistant to cutting the method of power of the grinder is largely irrelevant.

It was much harder than I expected it to be.

@@Pheeb-Hello you attach it too something immovable

All they'll do is cut through whatever it's attached to because that's likely to be the weaker material

I was only holding with two hands to try and keep the disc steady 😂

From what I’ve been told diamond discs are better at cutting concrete and stone etc. my brother is a steel fabricator and he uses the fibre discs until it gets to something that need a oxy acetylene torch or plasma cutter

@@mancavemoto, I’m not trying to start an argument, like I said appreciate you taking the time to make theses videos. I am a builder & I use diamond discs to cut through concrete lintels with steel bars in them also use them to cut rebar’s

@@EmsillCazm I appreciate that, but as you’ll know not all diamond discs are the same. A good one will last longer, but not necessarily cut faster?As I mentioned my brother works with steel and they still use the fibre ones until they need to go to gas or plasma.

Yep its a toss up between hopw much you pay for the added security. But this does seem to do a very good job, at the end of the day all you can do is try to slow down or put off a potential thief.

Would honestly say, two of the X1's would work better than one X3, if they have to cut one off the front and one off the rear, they'll be at it for far too long, most won't even bother, just too much effort when someone else in town has theirs locked up with a £10 chain from the local garden center.

Yep, i think this and a disc lock is a good option. Easy to transport and probably enough of a deterrent

No worries

Cheers

Cheers

Exactly!

I wasn't trying to replicate a theft, I was showing the resistance to grinding. Just for the record this was a 110v grinder running through a transformer

@@mancavemoto Cool, that's fair. Helpful review! Thanks

From my experience as an electrician using 2x DeWalt 18v angle grinders with 4 and 5ah batteries cutting through steel on a somewhat regular basis, over the last few years, there's not a big difference compared to 240v/wired angle grinders. If I were a bike thief I'd much rather cut through the steel bar frame instead of such locks they're attached to. I've got the X1, and recently also ordered the combo X3 with Core Plus 100 chain from Litelok, for my £1800 e-bike. So I'm far more sceptical of what public frame I lock onto. Hopefully any potential thief would try to cut through the locks instead of the steel public frame, that would proper fak him up.

@@TomGB-81 Thank you for sharing your experience. I'm glad my comment wasn't viewed as snarky (this is the internet, after all). Very interesting

Thanks

its the same, people just kept nagging litelok support if it works for bikes so they just made same product have two names

Good question, I don’t know….

Diamond wheels last longer but don’t necessarily cut faster. The time saved would be on having to not change discs.

@@mancavemoto My point was the lock appears to me to be a ceramic type of composite which defeats the grinding wheel by clogging and overheating it ! If you look at most diamond style cutting wheels they have slits cut in the blade to prevent clogging (they are normally used in construction to cut concrete etc ) that along with the diamond element as well as not needing to change the blade I don't think these offer any more protection to someone who understands this ! So I would have liked to see them tested with a more appropriate wheel !

Diamond wheels tend to be used for concrete and stone, although there are ones designed for steel. They will last longer, but not necessarily cut faster.

I was thinking the same.Great product & not heavy like chains & be mobile carry in a bag or pannier along with a disc lock 🔒 for the front wheel.

@@mancavemoto Thanks.

Are you suggesting I’ve edited the footage?

Yep, it certainly would

search for "LiteLok X1 Moto - How Angle Grinder resistant is it?"

Cheers, yep I suppose what price do you put on security?

Because they don’t cut as fast as a fibre disc, they just last longer

These cutting discs are used to cut heavy duty steel and are more likely what would be used in the battery powered grinders. It’s a definitely a deterrent.

Ah yes, this is a really common theft technique in the street...

@@sometimes_riding7008 As he says in the video one disk was trashed due to poor technique. So a better skilled attacker could do that cut with only 2 discs and way faster. By making a test bench that always attacks the lock in a perfect way the result you get is a score that you know no human attacker can ever reach. So you know for sure whatever the conditions and the attacker skills they will never steal your bike faster than that.

Yep, if they want the bike they’ll get it. But if you can make it harder maybe they’ll go after someone elses

I disagree. Put a 19mm or 21mm Pragmasis chain and an Abloy 362 High Security lock + RL21 Roundlock and no son of a hound scumbag will be able to get your bike. Couple that with a locked gate and something like a Guardsman security barrier + alarm then it'd be impossible for the scumbags to even lift the bike over a barrier unless they spend 2 hours plus trying to steal your bike in which case they'd be caught by then. Just put something which takes an hour + to compromise. All the above might cost around £700 but if your bike is worth 10 times that or more then its worthwhile because the locks with last you a lifetime. Over a 20 year riding career that's only £35 per year, cheapest insurance and peace of mind you'll ever have.

Litelok X1

Well only if you want to argue over semantics I suppose. It ‘resists’ grinder attack more than normal d-locks.

New York faggataboutit d locks are an angle grinders dream, and cut in seconds.

Thats the risk with any lock i guess, sometimes they'll move on, sometimes they'll damage the bike out of spite.

Thanks, hopefully so

Thanks!

Fibre Slitting Discs

Cheers Steven, I might do as quite a few people raised the question. Diamond discs are designed to last longer, but dont necessarily cut any faster. The time saved would be in not having to change discs.

@@mancavemoto Wouldn't it be poetic justice if somebody invented a composite armour coating that totally destroyed the cutting disc and sent shards of it into the face of the thief. I'm guessing that it's probably been invented but companies are prevented from using it because of human rights or similar, can't have the poor misunderstood scumbag getting hurt. 😉

@@stevenhill6214 composite cutting edges wouldn’t help because the other composite material is strong enough it’ll eat it away too! it’s the highly abrasive nature of composite that kills these blades. the only way you’d get through one of these quickly is with an industrial water jet which isn’t exactly portable lol

@@octagonPerfectionist HaHa....good point!

@@stevenhill6214 you should look into composite tank armour :) it’s the same concept. the ceramic is so hard that when it shatters and ablates away and basically eats away at the projectile until it’s gone. same thing here!

Diamond discs are generally used for concrete and stone, and the metal specific ones are expensive. The difference would be that they last longer, so wouldn't require the disc changes, but generally they don't cut any faster

@@mancavemoto …. But surely this would reflect on the time the thief takes to cut through the lock because he doesn’t have to stop and change discs, You said that liteLok supplied this lock for the test, I’m beginning to think they’ve told you not to use a diamond cutting blade because the times to cut through would be quicker even if the cutting times were the same the inconvenience of changing the disc’s would add time to the test

Diamond blades last longer but dont necessarily cut faster. Its not having to change the disc that would speed up the attack. A Stihl cut off saw is pretty big to be lugging about on a scooter in tracksuit bottoms lol, and the diamond blades for those are more commonly used for concrete. Its not an infallible lock obviously, but it stands above standard d locks in terms of protection.

If a thief could afford a Stihl saw,they wouldn't have to pinch bikes

I don’t own a battery grinder, but the point is that the mains grinder will be more powerful than a battery one, so the cut time should be even longer. If you watch the video properly the lock isn’t clamped into a vice, it’s looped around a work bench, so there’s movement in it. If you want to bolt one you York bike and go at it with a grinder be my guest. I’m not sure why people seem to be so keen to see this product fail? Odd

@@mancavemoto No one wants to see this product fail. Quite the opposite. I'm not sure why you deduct that from my post. It would probably be more difficult with a battery operated grinder with the lock attached to a bike. People want to see real life situations. That's not so hard to understand.

I still have it here at the moment.

A battery grinder would take longer I would say, the motors generally don’t have as much torque.

I forgot to mention that it comes with carry mount, but it’s probably more suitable for a bicycle.

They last longer but don’t cut any quicker

@@mancavemoto I see. I never compared them. I just buy the diamond discs for cutting. But what you say makes sense.

The X3 is tougher with a stronger lock, but its also heavier. So hard to say without getting my hands on one. I'm not familar with the Zoomer, but the X1 does seem to be a standard size D-lock.

@@mancavemoto thanx for the info, the Zoomer is a fun little 50cc urban scooter from Honda, called the Ruckus in other markets Pity no longer available new, but was certainly well ahead of it’s time 🛵👍🏻

Sorry, I mean’t I don’t know it to tell If it would fit. I know what it is. They look like a lot of fun

@@mancavemoto thanx, probably my misunderstanding 🙈🤣

make a video and show us.....

I don't undersand the question

@@mancavemoto 3 wheeler electric bike

Ah OK 🤷‍♂️

Yep exactly

But the idea wasnt to replicate, you can see how long it took with a mains powered grinder, so it seems obvious a battery one would take longer no?

@@mancavemoto Of course we can deduct. But would it be even possible to do it with a battery powered grinder within a « reasonable » time ?

Precisely, the sad fact is that if someone wants to nick your bike they will. The best we can do as riders is to make it as hard as possible for them to slow them down enough that they go looking elsewhere.

Its not in a vice.....sadly I didn't have a spreader to attack with, but equally in most cases neither do the thieves

@@mancavemoto ,.. I’m not being critical, you did an informative video. I’m just pointing out that it would add a more lengthy degree of difficulty if the lock was rattling about on a bike frame and maybe also cause blade failures. Spreaders are difficult to use if the lock is full. I just lost my second bike to thieves. There won’t be a third!

Oh I get you I wasn't being combative, I just wanted to clarify it wasn't clamped. I had it fitted to the workbench to try and simulate the sort of movement it would get on a bike, and its possible to move it into a similar position to the one I used on a bike. What I didnt want to do was bolt it onto my bike and try to attack it for two reasons 1. The risk of damaging the bike and 2. the risk of not being able to cut through it and then not being able to get it off the bike 😂

@@mancavemoto.. got it. Actually when pounding out the above I got to thinking about accidental grinder marks on a bike frame. Might not be a bad thing to simulate. That would diminish if not kill the resale value?

Yes my thoughts exactly. The problem is they start waving the grinders (and worse) in people’s faces. I can understand why people don’t step in.

You going risk your life for someone else’s insured property?

@@DaleMt09sp Depends on the situation and who I'm with. They get away with it because people let them get away with it and all the while putting everyone's insurance up. More claims means higher insurance for us all.

The mythical key that unliocks all locks! 👐

Why?

Corded offers more torque which almost certainly no thief will be using as they are not portable

Yep, so what real difference would that have made to the video? The battery powered one is likely to take longer to make the cut, but it wouldn’t change the story other than that. I already have the corded grinder and most people would understand that a battery version would take even longer.