LIVE! Real Lawyer Reacts: Crumbley Sentence May Surprise You 

But that’s so complicated! Slippery slope! Rac!sm!! This isn’t FAIR!! 😭😭😭 (lol Jk)

You are correct, there is no accountability , or responsibility on the part of the parents .

For real!! And when we try to talk to parents about their troubled kids, a good chunk of them are exactly like JC and JC. They do not care, or worse, they don’t care and blame the teacher.

Not to mention, how are they supposed to do that with every single student in all of their classes?? Make it make sense.

Well then the government needs to allow children to be raised by their parents and need to butt out. When the government took away discipline and the rights of a parent over the child, what do u expect? Too many outsiders raising kids. It's the parents job....period

I so agree with you. I see no reason to blame the school.

Then why the hell are we paying those school counselors? They failed miserable

There’s something very wrong with her. But knowing how narcissists work, Jennifer forced her to say some of that stuff. Jennifer heard the backlash online and can’t handle everyone h@ting her. She cares way too much about what we think and nothing about how her son FEELS.

@@kateashby3066 you should be pointing your venom at the main prosecutor , very well named Karen.

So why wes the CPS not involved. I think a lot of those witnesses show up after the fact.

They certainly were making the hobby horse’s health challenges a top priority and expenditure and time investment‼️‼️🙈🤬Hush and get back in your cells.👍🏽🇺🇸⚖️

And I find incredible any financial barrier suggested when the mother owns 2 horses. Objectively a luxury for a city dweller .

Exactly.

In truth Ellen, some people should never reproduce.

✋🏻 me!

Me but so does this judge

She’s so unprofessional

I can't with her.

All I hear when she talks is the girl in Willy Wonka singing “I want it now”

They either didn't think it was a big deal or didn't care. Either way, they still don't seem to realize they should have done something. They are seemingly assuming they couldn't have prevented it.

I 1000% agree with you. As a school counselor myself, the barrier to kids getting help IS their parents. I recommend counseling and the parents don’t act on it because of waitlists and getting them connected in today’s world to good care is hard work but if you care for your child, you do it.

in Ethan crumble’s trial all the psychiatrist, except one said that the boy had no mental disorder and was perfectly normal. This was huge evidence that was not allowed in this trial for some reason.

@shaunandmabelsmum In my previous career I was an Early Childhood teacher and it was the same we would recommend an assessment of a child as we could tell as professionals that the child wasn't developing with the 'normal' range and parents would not take our advice because their child was special and there was nothing wrong with them. This used to frustrate me to no end as early intervention can be so impactfull in many diagnosis.

@@Shaunandmabelsmomnew teacher here and I concur!! We don’t have that much power!

Seeing what her husband is like Im not surprised she had an affair

No one is perfect but I’m glad to know that marital choices are now grounds for prison.

​@@aairsick what does that have to do w anything? The comment was about Jennifer's statement today. She isn't going to prison for her extra martial affairs.

@@ashleypg1708 shh we hate accountability in this comment section

Not to mention the mom of the year Costco parking lot

Yah I think she’ll have a hard time getting clients to defend after this

W e l l, she was part of the defense team for Larry Nassar, the pedophile doctor that SA’d the gymnast athletes. Disgusting. 💩🤡🇺🇸⚖️

Well she DEFENDED Larry Nassar years ago and she’s still practicing law. So gross!

They were pushing for this all along with the whole court stacked against her. This is about politics not safety, which is something michigan state could care less about.

Exactly! The still don’t seem to care?

@@UntangledTreasures let's see them do this for the million gangbanger single moms in michigan, then it might make some sense at all. It's amazing how easy people are to brainwash.

@@LTPottengerthanks for your conspiracy theory. Now back to reality… if you don’t wanna go to prison, stop leaving your G u n around for anyone to access when you’re not even home, and start taking care of your kids when they ask you for help. This isn’t hard.

@@kateashby3066 good luck in lala land

It's not that bad but just too much

No she is horrible….i wohld be pissed if I was Jennifer but I don’t think she sees it for some reason

Never seen such a horrible lawyer before lol and performance

Grating voice, whining, like a spoiled and controlling narcissistic child that’s determined to wear everyone down to get her way… 💩🤡🇺🇸⚖️

I guess she's a public defender. Which you know, I guess they're a mixed bag, in general. It takes years of experience to be a good defense attorney most likely. She's smart but she is a bit of a dingbat.

it was over argument for the purpose of appeal

It's actually painful to watch!

in Ethan crumble’s trial all the psychiatrist, except one said that the boy had no mental disorder and was perfectly normal. This was huge evidence that was not allowed in this trial for some reason.

@@Charmander009He’s planning to appeal his conviction and sentencing so his attorneys don’t want him or his doctors to testify in another trial that might contradict whatever arguments they’re planning on using on appeal.

@@Charmander009lol use some common s3nse. Normal and healthy teens don’t go on a sh00ting rampage, knowing full well they will spend their life in prison after. Obviously he has mental health issues 😂😂😂. It’s cute that you don’t understand how mental health evals work for teenagers Vs adults 😅

Demanding that he only be sentenced to probation….what a self righteous a-hole.

They are appealing. They can't openly admit guilt.

​@@dukedematteo1995 They can appeal., but considering the following: 1) the parents aided and abetted the sons escape 2) obstructed an investigation 3) attempted to flee the state with the kid 4).the mother LIED on the stand 5) the parents knowingly allowed a mentally unstable minor access to a 🔥 arm and ammo . 6) both parents ignored warnings from school staff of Ethans behavior Just me , appealing doesn't have a snow ⚽ chance in Hell to happen .

@berenc7619 What escape? The kid was caught right after the shooting. Charges of this kind are totally unprecedented. This is a first in American legal history. The state of Michigan simultaneously argued that Ethan Crumbley wasn't mentally ill in one trial, and called multiple pyschiatrist to testify to the fact...and in the other two trials were arguing he was so mentally ill that the parents should have known he'd shoot up a school if he had access to a firearm. Yet in the parents trials, all of those psychiatrists who testified that Ethan was completely sane weren't allowed to testify.

She’s nuts!

Also lacks professional boundaries. No excuse for that!

She’d argue that ticket right into a 3 year sentence smh

what is showing remorse?

@@joemcminn3581An impossible standard that no one can possibly meet.

Their biggest downfall was not seeking help for their son then buying a gun for a troubled teen and not securing it.

​@@SharonFinn-nl9lt fair enough

@@SharonFinn-nl9lt they already owned two other guns. No proximate cause needed, or demonstrated, regarding purchase of a third gun. It takes only one gun to kill someone.Nor is therapy a silver bullet. Plenty of people in therapy kill others. In the Colorado shooting case, the shooter had an extensive history of therapy. His therapist even warned police or the school about him. And he still went into the movie theater and shot the place up. No, I think this state did not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that their negligence was the direct proximate cause. The but cause. The shooting could’ve happened regardless what they had done.

Michigan doesn’t currently give time off for good behavior. They have to do the 10 years (minus 2.3 years of time already served) before they are eligible for parole.

There’s always another dirt bag that needs a whiny, grating defense attorney.

She can run a bed&breakfast or airb&b out of her home - and rent it to ppl w/felony charges and out on bond lol

💔😇💔😇💔😇💔😇

While I would agree that these are not normal for a teenager, as one who has never murdered nor even intentionally hurt other, who was neglected and not gotten the help I needed, who had no group of friends and subsisted on one friend at a time, it is a falacy and an insult to those of us who don't commit evil acts to indict these parents and hold them responsible for their son's evil deeds. I never murdered anyone and I never have intentionally hurt anyone either. Should my parents get the credit for that? I think not. Children, whether or not they received the care and love they need, will choose their paths regardless of the parenting failure or successes they are subject to. We don't parent to prevent things we have no control over. We parent to teach and set our children in the right direction. Nevertheless, were not responsible if our children do not confirm to standards of good character in society.

@@rebalspirit Rebal, I do agree that children choose their own path many times inspite of parents. BUT when I put my head on my pillow or have to testify in court, I will be able to show I tried to get help that was over my capabilities, not purchase the child a gun and and not even lock it properly. . That is why they are parents in jail!!! Only parents who "do nothing" have to worry.

This is a case of bullying like I have never seen.

Exactly. Most parents I know don’t allow and encourage unfettered access to firearms to their minor children

She did throw him under the bus, I wouldn’t make eye contact either. Ethan needed a psychiatrist not a counselor at that point.

@@chiricanita6697yeah. James sucks, but that really had to hurt. She cheated on him then threw him under the bus 😬

Makes me feel bad for the kid. He could’ve grown up to be a decent adult considering he has already taken responsibility for his actions, if it weren’t for his crappy parents - who somehow seem to be more selfish and immature than their LITERAL school shooter of a child. Some ppl should not be parents. Ugh.

@@chiricanita6697 true, but he didn’t get anything from them, which was my point.

the teachers got to court and said something wasn't right, bull

I have a question since you are a teacher. Since they chose not to take their son home that day, did the school have the right/duty to look through his locker or be backpack and keep him under observation in the office until the end of the school day until his parents picked him up or to expell him? I’m just not sure of what the school is or isn’t allowed to do. Seems to me, that drawing was reason enough to remove him from class and even expulsion. But idk the rules! Thank you!

⁠ I think that could depend on the district and the state. I believe he would have been sent home for several days. The teachers had been asking for help and informing administrators for some time. The video he was watching and the drawings would have been better communicated with the parents.

@@selmamartin8737 coward answer, govern harder

The teachers said something about his drawings!! What more could the teachers do?

New teacher here and holy cow!! It’s bonkers how many James and Jennifer’s are out there 😢. They’re narcissists, that’s why they act so defensive. Narcs consider their children to be extensions of themselves, and not autonomous human beings. So if their child has issues- they feel people judge THEM as if THEY are the “bad” ones, and because they’re narcs, they are overly sensitive to that criticism too. I had TWO parents back to back tell me that “my child’s friend is in your class and they say you’re always picking on my kid”, yeah because teenagers are the best arbiters of truth and totally unbiased to boot. Meanwhile their kids are pulling in F’s in most of their classes. But I’m the problem. Got it.

I have far too many parents of my students who tell me “it’s my problem- deal with it while they are in school “ Zero respect from parents and their children! This kid asked for help- begged! He was ignored by the two people who mattered most. I am happy with the Crumbly’s sentence.

Ummmm no not in this case. They were handed a golden platter of red flags and ignored them all

I’ve seen it. My son and daughter in law are teachers. The stories they tell.

It’s very true….that one of the reasons there’s a decline in enrolment for teachers. Can’t pay them enough to deal with patents like this….

I’ll be curious to see if Jennifer’s attorney represents her for her appeal since she offered her home to her

@@merrilewno, she isn’t specialized in appeals. You need a new lawyer for that.

I think rehabilitation is so important & we NEED more of it in our court system - HOWEVERRRRRR… lack of remorse is just… no, bye lol. I mean. Are you too selfish to even try and at least LIE and pretending you want to get better and feel remorse in front of the judge? You can’t I take responsibility for one moment, even if your life literally depends on it??? So far from being a person who is redeemable. Unless they can show GOOD behavior during their time behind bars - and can show that they are trying to better themselves… then there is no hope lol

Exactly!

Yeah it happens, often. It never makes things better tho and sometimes makes them worse.

You’re not accurate in your assumptions about them not being covered for health insurance. Ethan was covered under the dad’s insurance until he lost his job in October. She planned to add Ethan to her insurance. And how would it benefit them not to have Ethan covered? It makes no sense.

Hear hear!

The school hires 'Professionals' to stop this Senario, They Failed

Agreed!! If the parents had locked up the g u n and EC just happened to guess the code and this happened as a result, I wouldn’t hold them responsible nearly as much! I would wonder wtf they chose a code that would be easy to guess and that is an issue but at LEAST it shows they cared enough to try.

@@kateashby3066if it was locked up you would still find them guilty? Wow looks like you should never be on a jury

The school has a responsibility to keep all students safe! They did not do this. They did go by there own procedures! Kids with vapes had there bags checked & were escorted out by security but they believed it was OK for Ethan to stay? Watch the school board meetings (I’m from Australia & it really opened my eyes) they are heartbreaking and a whole community are still angry with the school board getting immunity and hiding information from the parents 😢. And with holding therapy from students after the event!! So I think if u go after the parents u go after school too.

As it should be. It's her Sentencing

@@joemcminn3581That’s probably the most inaccurate statement I’ve heard in a long while… Stop feeling sorry for yourself and lashing out at others.. Life is short… Be grateful…

@@stevetrivagoBe grateful she was unjustly and tried and convicted? Yes. Sounds like a good time to be grateful.

@@joemcminn3581lol that doesn’t mean her statement should be self serving 😂. Unless your goal is to anger the judge, that is. This was her chance to be humble and show remorse and she blew it.

@@BlueDauntless12 pro g u n rights ppl and parents (the jury) plus the judge and 95% of the country agrees with the verdict. So perhaps you’re the one in the wrong here 🙃

The judge appeased her throughout the trial too. Very aggravating! However, maybe we need to remember how the parkland trial went… that judge lost her job for being too emotionally involved and for clearly being biased during trial. So maybe this judge is placating the defense

Really? I didn’t know this.

👏👏👊👊 Exactly.

Great example. Of course the first step is to remain humble so you can see the signs! So many parents don’t have humility like this. Like 10% if the population are narcissists, and I’m fairly certain the Crumbley parents fall into that category. That means they have tunnel vision and only think of their own needs. 😢

Buy a gun to a troubled kid… what unfair they were not charged with murder. Laws need to be changed!

Narcissists gunna narcissist…

Yep, when I was watching it I was like "how kind of her to forgive the people holding her responsible for her own actions."

​@@serensighsher son's actions...

@dukedematteo1995 no, her son is also being held accountable for his actions. She's being held accountable for her actions that enabled her son to murder 4 people.

They would’ve seen a lot more had she even helped him clean his room instead of letting him move into the guest room. Bird parts in a jar would’ve been a clue, but she probably would’ve laughed it off.

2people who never watched the trial , can’t be bothered shut up

He wasn’t in possession of a gun get your facts straight watch the trial wasting people’s time bootlicker.

@@Paragon62The facts are his parents did not secure the firearm. They didn’t use a cable lock or a gun safe. “Hiding” the gun in a pile of clothes in an armoire is not securing the gun. How ironic that the word paragon is in your handle when your post was so rude and condescending to the previous poster.

Or at LEAST don’t laugh at them when they ask for help

Like they are going to tell them the truth. Most teenagers are going to say they are fine even if they are not.

Lmao right? For a narcissist she needs to learn how to pretend to have emotions, you know, like James did! She reminds me of Shanda Vander Ark who desperately tried to fake cry and it sounded like a wounded animal 😂. Some ppl are so devoid of emotion AND empathy, they just can’t fake it.

It’s as though she has diarrhea of the mouth or she swallowed a microphone 😂

Families shouldn’t be there both had never met them , irrelevant

👏👏👊👊👈This!

They meant to say this can happen to any *bad* parents 😂. They keep leaving that word out! And yes, if you buy your mentally deranged kid a g u n and don’t even lock it up when you’re not home, and if you laugh at them when they ask for help, you ARE a terrible parent. Goodbye.

@@LucasMoore88 This! < because it didnt happen to you

@@joemcminn3581 😂😂😂 Op was talking about you.

Make sure you have a good relationship with your children,

LOL. There is no difference in what a rifle and a handgun can do except most hunting rifle rounds can do more damage than a handgun round. You have no idea what you are talking about.

I know people that lock up every gun but one. Hard to use when you need it if it’s locked up.

⁠@@BlueDauntlessHow many people do you know that needed to use a gun immediately?

@@richardvinsen2385I don’t see how that’s relevant. I mean, it’s not like anyone I know, or don’t know for that matter, plans on having their house broken into. Or plans on being victimized in some way. Are you suggesting that if someone breaks into your house, you have the time to go through several locks, find the ammo, load the gun then you can protect yourself? You must be super fast.

Nope. They absolutely wouldn't.

@@BlueDauntless No, I’m suggesting that having guns because people are going to be breaking in any second now is a ridiculous way to go through life.

The school counselor testified that they never told the parents until the morning of the shooting. This seems to be aligned with the SEL stuff that schools are implementing allowing kids to get trans meds without telling the parents. But then blame the parents when something goes wrong.

Right. And god forbid your child ended up doing something horrible to others because of it, you would not be held responsible because you actually did your job as a parent to help him. ❤

in Ethan crumble’s trial all the psychiatrist, except one said that the boy had no mental disorder and was perfectly normal. This was huge evidence that was not allowed in this trial for some reason.

@@Charmander009 Poor Amy in Court telling them she done soo well fs. She was the best parent ever, im sure she will show loads of fake tears

Do you ever really know? Did you see that case recently where a kid decapitated a homeless man - the parents if in MI will go to prison …

And too much imo

Worse than being dead ?😢

@@lisat5597 No, but there's a large area of punishment between jail and being dead!

They probably highly guided them but at the end of the day it was completely up to the defendants on what to say.

NO, They know they win the appeal at this point

Of course, that’s the lawyers job. Buttttt decedents don’t always take their lawyers advice and these fine folks are narcissist, so no one knows better than they do 😂. So I wouldn’t assume their lawyers told them to say this stuff. Just like it’s very possible that JC’s lawyer told her not to testify but she insisted, and it absolutely blew up on her.

@@joemcminn3581 😂😂😂💀 Oh sweetie bless your little heart

Yes. They sure did. This whole thing is JUST SAD.

he was tried as an adult mind, they were not acting for him

Don’t be sorry for the long comment, bc mine is A LOT longer…. Read it all tho. Also, your comment had a lot of info bc you went through something awful & still suffering from the tragedy that another person created, simply bc they chose to put everyone at risk for the sake of doing what they want (driving drunk). I’m sorry your partner went to jail for whatever he did to that guy - obviously the sentence means it wasn’t good, lol - but I know that it was out of emotion and I feel like when your world comes crashing down, sometimes all reason and logic comes down with it. I don’t agree with the judges sentence in your case - it makes me wonder if he will learn a lesson at all, which I think needs to happen if a person is to truly become rehabilitated. However, ten years is a long time. That means any violation during this time will absolutely be taken more seriously and possibly send him to prison. While I do hope that this guy DOES reform - and I’m saying this because I hope that this guy can understand what he did and choose to be better bc of it… knowing that your son will have died and this guy will have felt no remorse or guilt, or drive to do better is upsetting bc it’s like… you don’t see how precious life is? And taking it from someone else truly means nothin to you? Idk. Life is precious. Your son shouldn’t have died, especially that way. He didn’t deserve it. But if that guy can realize what he took & knows he needs to do right by your boy because of it, that is some sort of good that could happen. It never should have happened like this though. ---- That being said - I understand where you’re coming from. Not exactly, but the anger and revenge and loss… absolutely I would feel that way if I were in your shoes. I mean, how could you feel anything else? Despite what I said earlier, I think I would be angry forever if I went through what you did. I think I would really stay like that forever. Who knows though. If what you are saying is true though… that he is still f*cking driving…. OMFG. This is what you do, okay? First of all. Don’t go near him. Don’t stalk him. Don’t touch him. Don’t antagonize him. Keep. Your. Hands. Clean. If he’s really acting like this - after all the damage he has caused - let him do the dirty work to get him behind bars. That way, if there is something that happens, and he is facing sentencing again bc he messed up somehow, you go to the sentencing hearing and you give your statement - and the court will see that this guy is a dangerous person all on his own. Without any outside influence, this guy is toxic at the core. Seriously keep your hands clean. Also. When he is sitting in prison, he will sit there and think of how much HE messed up instead of convincing himself that “it’s all their fault I’m in here.” Feeling guilty will eat him alive. Feeling angry will give him energy. And if you are truly committed to getting him behind bars & want to make it happen yourself - still keep your hands off him & I will tell you what to do. *‼️So I’m really being serious about this part… hire a private investigator.* ‼️ I used to know one who worked for an insurance company and would literally be keeping an eye on people so that he could take pictures, video, and any other evidence - to show that a person committed insurance fraud. For example: someone says that their hip got injured in an accident and they file for insurance because they’re completely incapable of working/walking/etc. *BUT* the insurance company suspects they’re lying about it for whatever reason - well, the private investigator goes and keeps an eye on them & when they see that guy walking to his mailbox, going on a pub crawl, playing outside with his kids - that is when the private investigator gathers evidence (photos, videos, etc). & *THAT* is how the insurance company can prove to a court that the person filed fraudulently. So if it works for insurance companies, it can work for you too. If the person who took your sons life is still acting wrecklesssly, seriously look into hiring a private investigator. They know the laws. They know what they can and cannot do. They can keep a better eye on him & gather evidence so that all you need to do is put a bow on it and take it to the judge or something. A LOT of private investigators are actually former police officers, or people that have worked in some part of law enforcement. They can help you do what needs to be done & make sure it gets into the right hands. Sorry for your loss. Also I am sorry this is long lol. Your comment just really made me feel for you. I can’t even begin to imagine your pain.

Define Remorse? In this case

@@joemcminn3581There’s not a single possible way they could have acted that would convince people they were remorseful. They could have been moved to tears apologizing and people then say “it’s fake, such a show”.

@@BlueDauntlessI agree. People will never believe people that sit on that side.

Agreed especially when James says the truth wasn’t presented… it isn’t a conspiracy theory lol. Still blaming anything and anyone else

@@lzn1006this reminds me of when Amber heard tried to start a conspiracy that her evidence was not allowed in 😂 yeah because HEARSAY isn’t evidence!! And now the Crumbley’s are trying to pull this n0nsense. 😂

Good.

I don't have a problem with that.

Works for me.

And it’s so awesome.

Some jobs don’t have sick days. I would wait in the nurse’s office all day if I was sick at school because my mom couldn’t take off work. My husband’s job now has sick leave. We lived many years before at other jobs that didn’t. He didn’t work, he didn’t get paid.

Agreed, and just to put it into perspective, the LEAST they could have done was have dad take him for the day and Ethan could ride alone with his pop and have a heart t heart talk as James delivered food to homes. But nope- that was too much of an ask I guess.

If he was so obviously mentally having a breakdown, why didn't the school call 911?

I think even if you don't get paid you have to prioritize the safety of others.

@@Marina_-_-at least at districts I have worked at before schools need to call the parents first before they call for a breakdown.

Yep, but as Peter said - it's reasonable to think they are being made an example of, and yet still agree with the verdicts - and even a stiff sentence.

Handing kids deadly weapons ain't it

👊👊👏👏

I agree. Worried others held accountable who may not be have to hope state would be ethical and not go after in cases where really couldn’t have known. I don’t think it will now be a free for all. But do need to actual parent and if things off need put in some effort to get help for child.

I'm for it too!

Parents of kids taken by DFS are gonna be on the hook

They didn’t “hide” that fact. They had no idea that their son would shoot up a school. Tons of families at that school had guns in their home. It was “normal”. Their son shooting up the school didn’t cross their minds and neither did saying “hey we have guns in our house”.

This was big for me too. They should have talked about that.

Neglect is actually the most common form of child abuse and the damage done is lifelong, as you can't get that stage of development back. He was not the way he was because of something that happened that day, week, year or necessarily even that decade. The damage clearly started early and continued throughout his life.

Nothing has happened to other parents. Just these parents. For just this purpose.

@@BlueDauntlesswrong. Maybe turn off Fox News and get yourself informed. A little BLACK boy shot his teacher a few years ago. She didn’t die, thankfully. His mom got to spend some time in the pokie for allowing her child to access it. The only reason THIS case is setting a precedent is that the kid k!lled children at school. But it’s certainly NOT the first time a parent has been held accountable for extreme neglect and reckless behavior.