Learn the different performance characteristics of the two most common header styles: long-tube (full-length) and shorty headers. Carl explains how each header design can improve your vehicle performance. www.summitraci...
Even if they did answer your question it would be wrong.I have emails of them arguing with me, trying to tell me my 92 f150 has rear disk breaks. They are drums, I even sent a picture of the drums to the idiot and he said that's not a 92 f150. They are about as useful as a bag of dicks
@@demogorilla ha ha. I remember that night. I was drunk and still pissed off from the night before, when that happened. Actually I'm pretty sure my English teacher would smack me in the back of the head.
Cmon y’all this is the first RU-vid video I’ve seen in a long time that got straight to the point without an entire life story and history of the channel. Good job dude!
@@Brandon-mf5uh nobody gives a shit about your challenger, another typical " hey check out the cold start on my 392, dont it sound bitchen?" Just fuckin with all these boards playing shit music and cold starts. Reminds me when we were kids saying " check out those tits" Wish it would go back to that. What do you think about that butthurt Brandon 392??
Shorties do have easier bends than cast manifolds and they alsonhave larger primaries typically than LT. for drivability shorties typically offer more benefit than LT especially in a truck where low end is more desired than top end. You will see an improvement below peak torque with shorties verses simply a higher number at peak torque with LT. it really comes down to how high your engine revs past peak torque and how often you drive past peak torque.
Completely false that shorties are better down low vs long tubes. Quality long tube headers that are appropriately sized for the engine, will outperform shorties at ALL rpm ranges.
@@nickwebb9937 to some extent. But it REALLY varies based on the engine we are talking about. Pretty much any late model v-8, comes stock with cast manifolds that are damn near shorties anyway. The GM LS based truck engines are a great example of this. Shorties will gain almost nothing, if they do actually gain anything. Longtubes can be a pretty obvious change, assuming they are appropriately sized. I personally would not go through the effort of swapping out the manifolds, unless you have one that is cracked for instance. In that case, you have to pull stuff apart anyway, no harm in replacing the cast parts with some short tubes. I have done this very thing for that reason. More recently, I put some longtubes on a Vortec Max 6.0, the difference was pretty big. The most noticeable part was actually under the curve, not at peak.
wlabishler 1 it all comes down to application. On my 86 Bronco here in California shorty’s are my best bet. I can’t stroke my motor or do much to it at all aside from heads and a mild cam (my efi is antique and I have smog to deal with). Sure they more closely resemble manifolds, especially in newer cars, but 80’s motors were literally strangled to death. Shorties will be a huge upgrade over my stock manifolds and it lets me still run my cats and everything from a stock location, and I get better torque over stock.
I put shorty headers on my 90 k1500 and did get a "seat of the pants" performance increase over the stock manifolds. It is a tow vehicle so I need the low end torque and bottom end. So for the cost of replacement I am very happy. Not to mention the installation was a breeze.
I put zoomies on my 2.3L ranger. They stick out of the fender on the passenger side and are about 20 inches long. Don't know if it did anything for power, but it sounds badass!!
I've got tuned shorties on my 2015 SS 1/LE, love the low end. I've often wondered if I should have done the long tubes - now I think I made the right move. GREAT explanation. It's still on the stock exhaust from the mid back, but I do like the sound, don't think I'll ever go full aftermarket. Chevy did start adding the X-pipe on the 2016s and newer, so I am getting ready to do that. Looking forward to the possible scavenge gains and the sound!
I’m with you man. I have shorties on a Saleen S281 and the Low end torque will glue you to your seat. I did lose on highways gains but there’s something special about hitting 70 mph in second gear in 5 seconds!
You can help the shorty tubes scavenge better by putting a fueling pinch in the header tubes with in about 6 to 8 in of the cylinder head. I've seen it done with a lot of success especially on things like Harley engines.
Brian Samuels long tube give low end power cause they flow better. That already gives more power and I never had to remove my starter to put headers on my 83 k5 blazer
thomas hayes did you notice more low end power with long tubes? They said that short tubes are for low end power but I want long tubes because I want more power at high rpms and I don’t want to loose low end power. :-)
On my Mustangs I noticed way more torque. More power at the top end from the long tube headers. I've had multiple cars with each and if I ever build another car it will definitely be long tube.
@@booniekc heres the deal if your headers run close to the starter they make self stick heat rejection mat. While your starters out install it around the starter motor. You can also get fiberglass like material made into a tube you can slip over wires that run near the headers. You can make a heat sheild out of some old coffee cans or soup cans. The thing is to look at how close stuffs going to be and fix it before you melt stuff or heat soak your starter.
I have longtube hookers headers on my 1977 torch red vette.On older cars headers are sick.I would not put them on a modern car,My car is 44 years old,I also put on a high performance exhaust manifold,and flowmaster 40 mufflers.It sound awesome.added about 22 more horsepower,but i did it for the sound,the sound rocks the house for sure.thanks russ.
I've had a set of long tubes on my '68 C10 327 since 2006 when I had rebuilt my motor. Fortunately I had plenty of room to install them. Never had an issue overheating the starter. At the 2:20 mark I've scraped my header flanges at times, and my truck is at stock height. I'll have to replace my headers with the short tubes or a set of ram horns when I perform the 4/6 drop.
u didnt waste your money. where do you spend most of your driving rpm at?? not at the top end so u are getting what u paid for. long tubes are good if u drive your car wide open a lot, other than that u dont get the benefit of the long tube headers. just my opinion for an everyday driver shorties of mid length is the way to go
Sean Hamre thanks! Yeah I mean I never even go to the track or anything I just daily drive and occasionally I’ll race someone but it’s literally nothing above 60 mph anyway. If I do it’s just red light races from a stop
*PTSD FLASHBACK* after seeing the Driver's side shorty header on the right and remembering my SBC S10 square body days with the steering shaft that had to go in between the header tubes and learning the hard way that I should have also installed solid motor mounts rather than old rubber x-member side mounts (huge pee shiver...rr...rrr...)
He should have mentioned, the more an engine is built the more important it becomes to use high quality long tube headers, I've been building 600 horse 2nd gen LT1road racing engines, the build is not complete until a good set of long tube headers go on.
My opinion shorties are good for trucks that 2500 rpm is where mine usually stays on highway unlock a car or stick shift can get higher rpm would go long tube just my take on it
All this is great news for older less complicated engines and car systems, but for those new cars which have fuel injection systems and have a lot of electrical systems under the hood, you need to consider what benefits you will get and what the cost of those benefits will be after changing the factory headers to 4 into 1's or Try y headers, in fact the best ones to use is based on how you drive the new car, so basically if you want more HP down low range ie: 1,500 to around the 4 K mark then use try y headers or shortys, but if your going to track days a lot or street drags, then 4 into 14 would be best, but dont forget, then most tunner places will say you need 4 into 1 headers, but what they dont tell you is they will tune your engine to the headers and thus you engine will make approx 50 HP at the rear wheels for a new Chevy SS for example, but also they dont tell you you need the rest of the system as well, meaning the CATS and CAT back system installed as well, but in reality you will get just as much HP just by a tune of the same engine, they will not tell you this because the business is about selling the headers and also they do not tell you that the headers need ceramic coating due to the extreme heat under the hood and how close your electrical system,s are to the headers especially the chevy Ss which has electrical steering system. So please make sure if your going to get Headers for your car to kook if the model comes out with factory performance headers for the same make and model of your car, like for example the holden SS o chevy SS has HSB or holden special Veichacl which then you can by the HSV headers which come out with TRY Y headers on some models and will give your just as much performance but cost you only 1/4 of the price and specially if get the same try y headers from HSV and have them ceramic coated :)
Stock replacements ? So people buy shortys thinking their getting performance Parts when their just replacing the OEM style headers? There has to be some benefit for shorties other then placement issues. are for just looks.
Derpy Derp maybe 3-5 hp but I've been researching aftermarket parts for about 4-5 years..especially since I've had a couple of mustangs (2 currently). I've talked with professionals as well as other car enthusiast. If one really wants aftermarket headers for performance, long tubes is the way to go. Depending for what vehicle, it could range from $200-1,000) and get gains (again depending what vehicle) from 15-30 HP. Shorties would open up your exhaust system...but nothing like long tubes. And if you happen to go for some...go ceramic headers because they will last you longer then ordinary chrome finish.
CRUZ_GT chrome don’t get you home. Wow that’s awesome information. I bought headmen headers for my 289 and they are awesome I can feel the difference when I hit the gas from when I had the OEM factory headers on. Huge difference. I can imagine the open ports the long tube give. I will defiantly get some
Leon Garza long tubes , you'd need to weld the Flowmaster to your midpipe (basically switch your stock muffler to that Flowmaster one) but your midpipe might be smaller due to the long tubes
The way it was explained to me not too long ago is that before computer modeling and flow profiling this was a general rule and if one stuck to it would generally do well. But it seems that with the advancement of technology the ability to design and build better flowing headers have made short style headers less of a handicap these days so much so that unless you are running an all out dragster a short style header should be all most people can truly benefit from. Am I misinformed?
D N , shortys provide lower rpm power, long tube work better mid to high rpm. Check out Billy Nees. He runs NHRA n/sa with a grand prix with a 301 and has a few good articles on header and collector lengths.
Yea, for racing high rpm applications, I understand that, but a lot of guys put them on their street and on/off road vehicles. I am just saying for people who have vehicles that are dual purpose these days a good set of shorties should be fine right? Unless you are doing 7,000+ rpm regularly?
D N long tubes are great for MID to high rpm. Mid rpm is roughly 3000 rpm give or take high rpm is about 6-6500 rpm. Shortys are good for off idle to low rpm 1500-2000rpm. Do you spend a lot of time at at lower rpms in over drive? Or do you have a 4 speed with 4.10s and cruise at around 3000 rip'ems? Either choice is an improvemet, it all depends on your application and what you want.
There is no rule to which is better. It depends on what you want to achieve. Headers can be tuned to the engine so changing primary diameters , length and merge type can affect the torque and hp significantly. There is a point where at higher Rpms a mid length header will outperform a longtube header for peak power as then velocity can remain higher with the scavenging effect instead of slowing down in their individual tubes before merging. All depends on the primary diameter, length, size and displacement and rpm of the engine .. so many variables to consider.
Wait. First you say there's no rule to which is better but then go on to say one is better than another depending on application. Therefore there is a rule to which is better. Even the video says one is better than another depending on application.
Stop stating that shorty headers provide more torque...that simply is NOT true. A shorty header will never out perform a long-tube header with the same sized primary tubes at low rpm. The exhaust scavenging mentioned is more important at low to mid range, and the extra velocity from the longer tubes creates better scavenging in the low to mid rpm range. The only advantage of the shorty is fitment and/or emissions compliance...not performance. Shorty headers can provide an improvement in flow over a stock manifolds higher in the rpm range, but they will never match a long-tube in the low to mid range.
Purchase a set of Tri-Y headers. The Tri-Y is certainly more expensive but if you intend to keep your vehicle for longer than 3 years. Spend the extra money , you will not regret the expense. Go to either Doug Thorley or Stans Headers. I have both on my 95 and 98 4wheel drive chevy trucks. Five plus years spring summer winter and fall. No issues what so ever. That is the difference between a $1000 header and a $250 header.
Kyore watch this video in fact if you don't want to watch the whole thing go to around the 15 min mark. They tested a bunch of long tubes than the end they throw on a set of shorties for shits and giggles guess what? torque and HP down on the whole rpm band low end to top so wheres the gains in torque on low end with shorties? ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-O1bXPNy1Yn4.html
In some cases , Shorty headers can only be used , The object is to get rid of the exhaust as quickly as possible , every engine is simply a Air Pump , air comes in , gets compressed , then is sent out , the faster it does this , the more power it produces , Restrict either one and power lost
The school of thought I have been told is Long Tubes for air flow. Long Tubes help your car breath and flow air through your system. The more air through, the more power you make, that is why you lose some torque on the low end, you don't get the back pressure that you get with shorties, that is why Long Tubes are boss for upper RPM range. If you are getting top end work done; Cam, super/procharger, bigger pistons, etc, then Long Tubes are the way to go. If you are planning those mods in the future, then long tubes are the way to go.
As a 9 year owner of a car with LTs I can also say long tubes tend to cause significant emission system issues in many cars due to the exhaust system modifications required to use them. Oxygen sensors like to act up after installing long tubes due to the fact they're gonna be mounted further away from the engine in most cases then they originally were. I got premium Hooker Headers Competition Series stainless system that gives me nothing but o2 issues and it replaced a rusty set of leaky Pacesetter LTs.
I'm looking for a shorty header for my 1987 Chevy 1/2 ton 4 wheel drive with TBI. I have a cracked head so I've decided to go with new DART 127221 72cc chamber heads upping compression just a bit. Basically wanting a 350hp/and lots of torque, very streetable with pump gas. In fact this will be a farm truck/trailer hauler near term and project truck long term. Also getting rid of the TBI and all of the emissions and crappy exhaust manifolds. The body of this truck is in near perfect condition short of needing new paint.(and everyone who sees it tries to buy it) Hence the reason spending some money on the engine.
Those heads are standard port in stock the location. I recommend 1 5/8” primary tubes headers. www.summitracing.com/parts/snh-cc3158-p/make/chevrolet/year/1987 or www.summitracing.com/parts/snh-cc3158-sec/make/chevrolet/year/1987
Given that the shorty headers provide less pulse vacuum internally, would it be a good idea to increase the diameter of the exhaust system from 2.5 to 3.0 inches to provide better top end?
Guess we aren’t going to talk about a lot of G bodies. Long tube if you’re customizing or getting another bracket. Short tube to keep them street ready and less headaches rerouting exhaust.
Have shorty on my G body running mid 10s with a small block all motor. Long tube means longer profits for summit, of course they don’t want you to buy the cheapest ones.
Here is a link to the headers we offer for your application: 1999 Chevy Suburban Shorty Headers. www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/headers/year/1999/make/chevrolet/model/c1500-suburban/engine-size/5-7l-350/engine-family/chevy-small-block-gen-i?N=header-style%3Ashorty&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=headers&kr=headers
If you are doing it for more power for towing/hauling, I would recommend the shorty. If you are doing it for performance, I would recommend the full length.
I would go with shorty headers both for ground clearance especially with portal axles etc and because low end power will be better for rock crawling and towing which. If you are looking for road racing performance I stead of off-road though it might be worth getting the long tubes.
I have a 2005 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 crew cab LS v8 5.3 LM7 325 cubic inch engine and I want to get headers for it, but I don't know if I want long or shortly tube headers as well as my biggest problem is that I don't know exactly what size headers I need so I don't order the wrong size headers for them to not fit my truck.
First and most important do research and pay attention to recommendations . Long tube header will not cause torque loss unless you do not pay attention to size recommendations . Lets say you have a choice of a 1 3/4 primary or a 1 7/8 primary and the 1 3/4 is recommended for stock engines. If you use the 1 7/8 you will have a torque loss and since your engine being stock will not take advantage of hi speed use from big headers. Next brand of header makes BIG difference . After damaging my hooker comp headers I replaced them with a lesser brand of the same size . Big mistake I lost 1000 rpm on top end and engine started missing which required retuning to stop the missing but I did not get the 1000 rpm back. I always make my own mufflers but the new stuff has gotten much better. If you run full exhaust to rear of car you will always lose hi rpm power. On race track you should have a tube added to back of header same size as collector but it should be tuned . To tune tube on collector start with a length of 20"" and take a tire crayon and draw a straight line down it's full length . Make a couple of passes then cut tube wear burn mark stops. Then rejet carb if injected it should retune itself . Always follow manufacturers recommendations most of the time they know there stuff better than you . Ok guy's now go smokem .
What is the difference between running long tube headers and running short tube headers with test pipes it's pretty much the same thing as long tube headers right
Im Planning to buy/ im wanting to install long tube catted headers from Stainless works for my 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis (they are prefitted to my vehicle as it stats) but im being estimate between 900$-1,500$ in labor from several shops to install them... which i think that ridiculous. im Getting them a buddy of mine Name marty Ochs from Mosspeedshop in Georgia...(His price is 300$-400$ to install then) but i live in Tucson,Az but ive been told you can't
So if I'm looking for more torque for a truck application (no Baja or racing, mainly for getting over stuff (overlanding)) would shorty headers meet the mark? Eventually considering force induction, but haven't crossed that road yet
Shorty header would meet your goals just fine if you're looking for improved low-end power. Adding a supercharger will dramatically increase power across the entire rpm range. It will also require improved exhaust flow, and you may want to consider using a header with larger primaries.
Something nobody looks at is long tubes can cause EFI management problems because of moving the O2 sensor further away from engine. The problems can be overcome with a competent person tuning the car but you should be aware of this.
1st Gen Tundra, no lift, mostly used for truck bed camping, and to replace factory broken manifold or short factory header? Should I go long or short? 4.7 2000 model
Have you made a video on the benefits of shorty headers vs stock manifolds? You said those perform more like stock, but are they worth buying aside from looks alone?
I am sorry but every other source explains long tube headers are better low to mid RPM and short headers are better at high RPM. Its all about getting the exhaust out quickly at higher RPM so the shorter the distance the better. I believe the long tube makes power low. Motor Trend agrees with me but Holley agrees with Summit. I guess it really comes down to the diameter of the pipe and if its forced induction. Anyone else got any input on the science behind this?
What size diameter of headers will be best for my application? 85 Square Body w/355 & 400TH. The motor will make approximately 385 HP. I have Vortec Heads and would like to be able to have access to change my plugs easily. Will long tubes be difficult to change the plugs?
On modern cars not so much. Only because modern Manifolds are pretty good. On Old muscle cars it's a huge difference like 20+hp/ torque. They will look good on your car. and they do tend to increase low end torque on most cars. I think the Summit guy just wants you to spend more money. Long tubes suck for speed bumps and driveways.
Almost anything is an improvement over *most* stock manifolds, with few exceptions. Generally shorties will make gains, it depends on how poorly designed your stock exhaust manifolds are. If they're like those old, crummy log manifolds then shorties will help a lot. If your car already came with tubular exhaust manifolds that resemble shorty headers, like you see on a lot of 4 cylinders and even some performance V8's nowadays, you probably won't notice a difference. For example, for the money, I wouldn't mess with shorty headers on a newer Mustang since they come with kinda short headers already, I'd go straight to long.
02 Silverado 1500 4wd. Dailey driver. Plan on installing a 222/224 cam, and upgrading timing chain, lifters, pushrods, rockers, springs, intake, and throttle body. Also plan on installing a cold air intake. I don't drive wide open hardly. Would shorties be better for me?
LS1 swap 5.3l L59, PCM flashed for LS swap into 69 camaro: problem- backfiring in exhaust tube. Yes I have longtube headers. Passenger side running 50 - 100 hotter then driverside. Any ideas?
I am only considering shorty headers because dorman cast iron manifolds are onlyblasting about 2 yrs and cracking. I dont want a louder exhaust. Will my exhsust be louder if I bolt these to my stock exhaust?
Would it make sense to get a cam optimized for high RPM if I get a shorty header and if i got a long tube headers i would want a cam optimized for low rpm power?
Have a 67 base model Cougar with single exhaust. Don't know much about it. I dont race the the car but looking for little more power and better sound. It's a 289 4 b. What would you suggest?
The A body mopars imported to my country are all RHD so to try avoiding the steering box I have long headers on the passenger side and short headers on the drivers side, will this damage my motor ? It's a stock 318La small block . ?
I'm looking for a set of long tube headers I can force be with the z bar can you give me the part number or do you even make them appreciate it thank you
Hello, I have a Chevy truck with a 350 engine and I want to put some headers on it, which one do you recommend and which brand? I have it for daily use
So I have a 95 Chevy 5.7 v8 tbi. I feel like shorty headers would be better for a daily driver. I don’t drive it everyday but I drive or weekly. Would it be more efficient to use shortys?
