What constitutes a "souls veteran"? Is it time? Is it number of titles? Is it skill? I am not amazing at these games but I am getting a lot better, but still nowhere near the level of most everyone else, I think. I've been in the genre for about 3 or 4 years now. Started with DS1 which I beat like 9 times, then DS2(scholar) where I went hollow after the iron keep, DS3 where I played "Let Me Solo Them" at the twink princes, my fav boss from that game, than to ER, and finally I platinumed Bloodborne as my very first platinum ever. Still have yet to play Sekiro. I wouldn't concider myself a veteran cuz I had thought "veteran" came with a certain level of skill. So again I'll ask, what makes someone a "souls veteran"?
Everything you mentioned about LoP is what I feel. When I beat a boss I don't feel satisfied, I just feel "Man that was annoying, Thank God that's over". I have always been decent at these games, beating every souls game into multiple NG+, Nioh 2 had hundreds of hours, and massive amounts of Elden Ring... LoP has all the issues you mentioned: - Slow, stiff animations and combos - Little to no stun/hit-feedback on the enemies - Giant puppets that get to move super fast (physically it doesn't make sense) - A dodge that is so small even with i-frames it doesn't counter the long attacks of the enemies (meaning their long arms and long combos) - Parry is a bit too tight (it isn't awful, just mixed in with the other things I find it unfun) It seems deflect is the main way, and then sometimes it is better to dodge, but only in certain directions, and sometimes it is better to rally or run away. I like having options to evade damage, but it felt like the amount of learning which one has to do to figure out which option is better when, mixed in with how slow the character is, how punishing the enemies are, and how long some of the run-backs are...this was unenjoyable. In souls it is mainly dodge, block shield use is super viable, ranged use is super viable, and even sprinting is used a lot (I'd say 30 to 40% on many bosses). In many cases each of these options are good. I also felt that sense of luck, like: "Oh I guess I parried them all this time and then took out a third of the bosses health". I would just "happen to win" when I wasn't really changing my strategies overly, because I was still taking time to learn what evasive/defensive moves were best for this combo or this attack, etc. Then I'd happen to have a series of parries that worked, and then basically get in the quick time event to critical hit. I'd rather evade and position myself while doing combos/attacks that I input in real time to damage a boss and then here and there get a critical for doing the right thing. It feels in this you just HAVE TO stagger to beat the boss and take out most of it's health. In all the other souls games the majority of damage I deal to enemies is me doing combos and getting out of the way of their attacks so I can perform them. Feels more like me in control rather than a quick time event. Thanks Zio :)
L of p ist ridiculous, there is no competition to even Dark souls 1, when the combat hit boxes are on Jupiter or mars you can't say they are souls like, maybe they shit like but souls like 100 %not
Heavy disagree. Part of the reason you are speccing into stats, is for you to able to wield and get the most out of a weapon. Weapon restrictions is a gameplay mechanic for the player to focus and funnel into a single or set of weapon(s), and I personally prefer it when games feature that.
I think there’s a valid argument to be made for both but I tend to agree you should be able to *wield* them just maybe not to the same degree. Even a different less effective move set would make more sense.
Let me just hop on in here and say you were wrong, and I feel like you've lied to us for the first time lol. Lotf has the worst dark souls 2 vibes. LoP was linear, but everything else was damn good. I was really wanting to like lotf more than lies....but they are on two entirely different levels of quality.
@@Arfadoz I wouldn't go that far...but there was the early access and showcase events that were probably nice. I was definitely not prepared for it to be this janky. It's not even pretty on PS5 lol.
Definitely loving Lies of P, the mix and match weapons pretty much saved my play through, the world has been really interesting and somehow nostalgic to roam through.
Probably the biggest disagreement I've had with you. Lies of P bosses remaned so good consistently throughout the entire game imo. The learning process of learning to time parrys in combination of dodges and fable art uses made the bosses so damn fun. I never really felt they were unfair. The game definitely expects your execution and reading patterns to be on point, which I and know might not be for everybody but i love it. After seeing the bosses in LotF, I feel like I made the right choice getting Lies of P. LotF really gives me DS2 vibes for some reason. From the way the bosses have super telegraphed moves to the way the player rolls around and swings. Sound design is also really important to me, and it sounds kinda rough in LotF.
@@RipVanWinkleJr can confirm that, I was really skeptic but now I can't stop playing it. Gameplay wise it feels less clunky than the early From games up until DS2, and I dare say it's close enough to BB and DS3. The one thing that is slightly disappointing is boss quality, but I can overlook it because the game as a whole is so damn good.
@@RipVanWinkleJrYea watching people play Elden ring didn’t interest me at all but when I bought Elden ring and actually played the game it was a different story might be the same way for this game
If you enjoyed the bosses in Lies of P you will HATE the bosses in LOTF. They’re a joke. I beat nearly all of them in one try. If you enjoy challenging bosses, Lies of P is infinitely better than LOTF.
You haven't played enough of Lies of P... saying that dodge is useless, is just simply not true. You might need to upgrade the dodge to make it better - it was an 'interesting" decision by the devs putting it on the skill tree ...(for now, but it will be patched in November). Parrying is just a tool too, you have other tools to use also: legion arms, throwables - the latter making the game rather easy. You can (and should) utilize the other tools too - unless you are on a challenge run and making it harder for yourself.
Would have to disagree, I actually felt Lies of P had much tighter and more rewarding combat. I’m not sure a high skill ceiling is a really a negative no? I loved learning how to get good at the parry and Lies of P was tougher than most Souls games which I loved
Yeah, bro. I’m worried that LotF is gonna suck because it sounds to me like the guys that talk down on the LoP combat aren’t very good with soul like combat. Particularly the hardest part…which is perfect parries. Lies of P’s combat is amazing, dude. I see how fast LoTF dodges and sword swings look…apparently you can just dodge to cancel recovery frames from attacks, that to me is not good. Also, I’ve seen that the dodge is so OP that you literally don’t need to block/parry anything and all these things sure af make it sound like it’s just a watered down version of souls combat. Basically, it’s just easy mode. I’ve also heard almost no one except literally one or two people talk about the bosses being good…and that’s what’s means everything to me in a souls like game. I’m not trying to talk bad about people when I say this, but I just get the feeling that people that say LoTF has better combat than LoP are almost certainly not the greatest with the difficult combat of LoP…which is fine, but I thought dude was insane to say this he combat is the worst part of the game lol and the higher the skill ceiling the better for me, dude. I’m not even great at LoP, but I absolutely love how challenging the bosses are…and I refuse to use the summons…idek if they’re any good, though. I got really side tracked here lol I just keep thinking about buying lords of the fallen, but I think it will be far too easy and if that’s the case I will get bored af really quick
@@meqdadfn dude, I have platinum for Sekiro too lol that suppose to make you special? I also beat the game charmless with the demon bell rung just like literally everyone else that loves that game lol Sekiro is probably my favorite game of all time…although it becomes pretty trivial once you get the combat down…I wish I could just erase my memory of the game…but obviously I can’t. I can leave for a year, come back and beat the game without dying because like I said…once you got the combat down it just changes everything. You can hate on Lies of P whenever you want, but again…it sounds like you just suck, dude😂😂 I know you suck because there was only 2 bosses that I had to try a 5+ times on and puppet master was the only one that took over 10(probably around 20 lol) but I beat the swamp monster my first try and every other boss after the swamp thing on my first try…except for puppet master which took me 2 tries. And I’m NOT good at the game, dude. So if I can do that without have to fail and fail to learn the bosses and I’m not even good at the game, then that just means it’s not for you, bro. Which is fine…not every game is gonna click for everybody. Just don’t try to peddle your opinion like it’s a fact…or brag about something that everybody has done lol like that makes you some type of special case that gets to decide what is or isn’t good in the video game world😂😂
@@jordancave3089from all the gameplay videos, I don't even know if lords of the fallen has shields or blocking. The dodges and running looks like you are skiing over the ground at mach speed. Lies of P is a masterpiece. A bit too easy until the very end but I had a blast. The story, lore, twists in the Pinocchio story, the characters and their development, the weapons, the combat, the levels and keep design, the atmosphere, the graphics, the bosses, the Amazing music... From so many reviews and comparisons I'm getting the feeling that lords of the fallen is piss easy.
I beat lord of p and played fallen. Lord of P is better on every front except it doesn’t have multiplayer and an open world. Lies of P story, graphics, combat and smoothness with no lag is way better.
Lords of the fallen has much better graphics and world. The lag is getting patched. You shouldn't shit on a game that just came out and is still working on some kinks.
i just started playing lies of P and beat the second real boss, and i'm loving it so much so far. this is the first soulslike game i've played where i'm extremely excited to get to the next boss, because it's just fun to fight them
Guys, amy advice for the last boss ? Spoiler Alert... I dont wanna give Geppetto my hearth, but I am quite low leveled for the last boss, but I am not even near to beat him.... in the second fase, he one shot me and he doesn't, he makes a combo that i cant parry 😢. Some advice guys ?
Lies of P Win easily, LOTF level design enemies locations are very bad . I am now 6 hours in LOTF and it is disappointed ☹️. Lies of P from the beginning was interesting the developers make you go into the combat step by step to understand it, in LOTF throw everything in your face . I will continue lord of the fallen but am i enjoying it! Absolutely not , but i already paid for it unfortunately. A lesson taught always listen to the player
After playing both, I can honestly say that Lies of P feels MUCH more polished and has better level design, where I never felt I was getting lost or confused. Combat just feels better too; very similar to FromSoft polish. In LotF, combat feels a little more rough around the edges. Almost akin to Mortal Shell. Where Lies of P feels much more fluid.
THANK YOU. I feel like I’m going crazy right now seeing so many people say that Lords of the Fallen is leagues ahead of Lies of P. Lies of P is shorter, but it knows what it wants to be and clearly focused on the fundamentals of combat and character movement and then created a game around it. Lords of the Fallen looks like they thought of cool ideas and locations and then tried to shove a working game in there and it came out a buggy, half finished mess
I’ve only tried the demo, but I wasn’t really a fan of Lies of P’s combat, it felt incredibly unresponsive to me. Lords of the Fallen isn’t perfect, but I prefer it’s combat to Lies of P’s, so I think there’s more bias in your opinion than you think.
@@kaaskaaskaaskaas my point was that we are both biased. I’m not really interested in arguing over which game is better, I think that’s a waste of time, for some people I’m sure the game felt just right, for me my character felt slow and clunky, with 2 move weapon combos and a useless dodge. I felt like I was being railroaded into a single play style regardless of weapon, parry or die, and I hate parrying. I’m sure anyone who enjoys that mechanic loves the game, and more power to them, the atmosphere is fantastic and the environments and performance are incredibly well polished.
@@meqdadfn, are you realy enjoyng beating same 10 enemy types with completely similar movesets through endless ugly swamps & caverns, using distasteful weapons with lack of various combinations in LotF, full of bugs & glitches?
Lies of P is amazing. I'm hooked at the moment. I love how it's not a grind to return to the boss area when you die. Creating shortcuts around the level is satisfying. Gameplay is difficult but it's nothing too crazy. The atmosphere is fantastic. Bloodborne is my favorite FromSoft game and Lies of P definitely scratches that itch if you're a fan of BB
Agreed. For me the only negative about this game is the level design. Sure there is an optional mini boss fight here and there but. There is always only 1 single progression path forward. Aside from that i am addicted.
I'm hoping it adds a lot. I really just screwed myself and played Elden Ring way too much on release and it kinda lost all it's spark to me. Hoping it does something at least Similar to what Old Hunters did for Bloodborne. Like 90 percent amazing bosses and cool new weapons etc. Oh and the music gotta have some epic new music.
mehh, I find Lies of P to be vastly superior to Elden Ring personally... I really don't care for open worlds and their fake length by making me walk 10 minutes between content... I loved ER, but the open world really was the biggest con for me, and I hope the DLC won't be (but i'm not holding my breath)
Even if Fromsoftware came up with Elden Ring 2, I would still be more excited for Lies of P. Im kinda tired of Fromsoftware's engine and formula. Elden Ring was DS4 but Open World. Its fun, but come on man. Sekiro is the only real unique one. Bloodborne is somewhat different but still carries some of the DNA of Dark Souls games.
@@Adkhean I actually Like Lies of P more too. On my first playthrough of Elden Ring I was still overhyping it. Then I beat it again and did even more on my second playthrough and had done that majority of every thing and Only had like 1/5th the amount of hours played compared to my first run and I kinda realized there wasn't all that much really and a lot of it was just filler. That coupled with the music. It feels more like DS3. I like Bloodborne the most out of all the Soulsborne games and Lies of P feels like a homage to Bloodborne in a lot of ways.
There should be absolutely no comparison here. Lies of P actually functions as a game. Lords of the the Fallen is still barely functional on my series x. Such and embarrassing release.
I couldn't disagree more about the combat. Lies of P is the closest Souls like combat ive played, a mix between Bloodborne and Sekiro. If this is all your own captured footage that's being shown, you are using the 2nd slowest greatsword with no movement and no offense, parry timing is not that great. I can understand why someone would be frustrated. Switching up to a weapon better suited to the boss fight and playstyle probably would have been a much more enjoyable time. Lord's of the Fallen combat speed plays more like nioh in my opinion. Your attacks on enemies get posture animations but the combat still doesn't feel chunky like the trademark of souls games. I felt right at home just coming off a replay of Bloodborne into Lies of P. But Lord's of Fallen doesn't feel nearly as comfortable.
Fam the dodge is not useless at all in LoP its how I got through the game, i only deflected roughly 20% of the time. When i tried to dodge or deflect 100% of the time it wasnt fun at all and felt harder then it needed to be but once i started mixing the two together thats when i fell in love with the game
Yeah, this was exactly my experience as well. I was really struggling at first because I was trying to perfect guard everything. The second boss, in the factory, took me longer than any of the late game bosses as a result. It was during the King of Puppets fight that the game really clicked for me. I realized that a big part of the dynamic of combat in it is learning when it's best to dodge, when it's best to perfect guard, just regular block and get the health back, or run out of the way and reposition. Once I figured that out, that you're not just supposed to do one thing all the time, that I starting really loving the game, and after that struggled significantly less. I think Lies of P's obvious similarities to From Software's games makes you naturally gravitate toward playing it like it's Bloodborne, or like it's Sekiro, but really, it's neither of those games, and it wasn't until I realized this and stopped trying to play it like it was BB or Sekiro that the pieces really fell into place and it clicked for me in a big way. It's very much doing its own thing, despite how much it looks like a From Software game. Also, yeah people sleeping on the dodge. It has crazy generous i-frames. Like, you can dodge really early and still avoid an attack. (Still, I do agree with Zio's point in a previous video about it being kinda silly for them to made you have to unlock dodging consecutively and on the ground with Quartz.)
Dodging being useless in Lop is some of the dumber things people say. Dodge is much better to dodge some attack with for example King of puppets Sweep attack that hits twice or eldest of black rabbit brotherhood where he does a slow chop. in these cases its easier to dodge and better to reposition into the enemy , since if you parry there will be a slight recovery time and you will get knocked back a bit. Hopefuly im not the only one that sees this
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think there is only one attack that I'm aware of that cannot be dodged that being Laxasia charging at you at the start of phase 2. The fury attacks can be dodged with proper distancing.
@@FalseSleepwalker Yeah you just can't i-frames the fury attacks, but you can still avoid them if you can get out of their hitbox in time. Oh also, I think you also can't dodge the Puppet King's sonic blast attack when he turns into a big speaker or whatever.
@@itsaUSBlinewhat’s cool also is you can get an amulet that allows you to I-frame dodge attacks. Further proving dodging is a valuable tool in the game
Take note of all the frauds in the comment section. Lies of P is such a good game they rather be on here defending it instead of playing it lmfao October 12th 🔜😭
I think the enemy density in lord of the fallen is probably due to the fact that the entire game can be played co op and the devs probably wanted to make sure co op wasnt a cake walk
@@omasfreier I personally find more enemies is the better way to balance coop since AI is not genius yet. Adding more health feels spongey often and then the main tactic is cheesing agro. With multiple enemies everyone has to coordinate.
@@leithaziz2716Enemy health and damage get buffed a bit, but the main thing is in boss fights or any other encounters that spawn adds, it spawns more per person.
Lords of the fallen makes you take damage for actually parrying. That alone makes the combat a joke as someone who clocked in 70 hours in Lords of the Fallen 😄. Lies of P would pummel and beat LOTF to a pulp if they were actual humans in a ring or street fight lol.
I personally loved lots of Lies of P bosses - kept me playing ng+. Overall really happy we have these souls like games out. Competition is great and will drive the industry forward. Will be interesting how lords of fallen is
I had no issues with responsiveness in Lies of P. Currently in NG+3 and combat feels crisp. And your issues exhausting bosses is either a skill issue or build issue. Once you nail the Perfect block, bosses become cake. I loved the bosses in Lies of P because everyone felt fair. Once you learn their moves, and time your guards, the fights end in seconds. By my third play through I was breezing through them. And the action was great. It punctuated the nuanced story. It was so refreshing compared to every other souks like where you just strafe, dodge and attack.
I have to correct you on your take that dodge in nearly useless in LoP. Both defensive options in LoP are equally valid, if you want to save stamina and weapon durability you use a dodge, additionally some attack are much easier to dodge than deflect, and allow you to move away from an combo attack. For example VIKTOR is one of the bosses whose attack is much more rewarding to dodge than parry, because of the increased I-frames the dodge has, and because it’s better to be constantly on the move. And if you do commit to the deflect, there are bosses who will just drain your stamina before they even finish their combo attack, like the king of puppets.
The movement in LotF is just terrible and looks ridiculous. That combined with horrible sound design especially when striking enemies which sounds like hitting pillows and it looks underwhelming. Those are the most important elements of a souls game and its developer clearly has no idea of what matters in a souls game.
Lies of p is way better in almost every aspect. Especially the combat. Its not even close which is the better game. It's not even an opinion at this point. I haven't heard anyone that has really played both games say that lotf is better on any level. Its a good game but needs a lot of work to be considered on the same Level as lies of p.
I completely disagree with your takes about Lies of P bosses not being fun its clearly that you just dont like how Lies of P bosses works, the only boss fight that is not fun was just the door guardian other than that every main Bosses especially laxasia the complete are really Fun,, i do also disagree with your takes on combat, being able to customise your blades & handle was something really fun to mix & match and Each blades & handle has his own Fable art that is so usefull in many situation ,, this is a feature that you won't even found is many souls like game ... lasty i do think dodges is still usefull like the monster swamp boss fight you can still do a lot of i frame dodges especially the 2nd phase grab attack that simply dodges forward in order to avoid his grab attack & this is also works again similar bosses that has grab moves
Laxasia is my absolute favourite boss in the game.... once it clicks it's like a dance. On the other side I recommend you not to take ANY Souls content creator that's licking LOTF boot seriously... I think Deck 13 or whoever the producer is, has pay a TON of Prereviews.
nah bruh, LIES OF P is good because of GAMEPLAY, just like Sekiro, Once you (Git Gud) and upgrade ur (P organ) (no homo) the game gets a lot more fun to play, like a reward for continuing the game, the STORY is the LAST thing that makes it good, just like Elden ring and the other Soulsborne games, i almost NEVER check the lore or story, just if the game is fun.
One thing, is lords of the fallen floaty when hitting? it looks like it could use more weight into the attacks. Lies of P has enough good satisfactory impact with every hit.
I'm so pumped for lords of the fallen. I'm just about done with lies of p and I absolutely loved it. I can't believe we finally have good non fromsoftware souls likes. Not only that but they release in the same year super close together. 2023 is the best year for gaming in decades.
We are so spoiled. Lies of P was incredible. It’s like Sekiro. Super frustrating until something suddenly clicks. Then it becomes such a fun experience.
@@mac1bc LotF is actually a mix, you have dodges like Bloodborne, Dark Souls bosses (but faster) and the parry system isa weird mix of Sekiro and Dark Souls.
most of the "soulslike copycats" have this weird thing in their combat where the melee animation kinda slides through the enemies instead of slicing/slashing and combat feels lacking in being impactful or weighty and feels floaty, but Lies of P doesnt suffer from that
Thanks for breaking down the specifics Zio. Unfortunately think the debate around these games will always be a little obscured by the vastly different settings of the games as well. People who have been waiting for something like Bloodborne because they favor that atmosphere and setting are probably gonna be partial to Lies of P while Dark/High Fantasy fans will probably favor LotF.
Interesting. From looks alone lotf combat looks clunky and lies of p looks responsive and quick but reviews of people who have played both say the oposite. Looks alone i would have said lies of p had better combat
There's too much over emphasis on parrying or blocking in Lies of P. I probably spent 90% of time rolling out of the way. Lies of P was fantastic. I hope Lords of Fallen lives up to hype. It looks good.
I can't parry very well at all and I'm near the end of NG+1. I roll too, and rely on being a "cannon" with high damage output to compensate for not parrying. (Puppet string + big wrench+ the good attack amulets and skills really crank the damage up) Or to say it another way I probably parry about 10% of the time also, and am good enough to get by in those situations until I can play the way I like. Lords looks awesome too..........why choose when we can play both?!
Oh look, another toxic person on the internet who doesn’t understand how video games work. “Git gud” at a game that fails to get the formula correct... 🙄
I think that most of the ppl that feel that Lies of P was unfair is because they play really one dimentionally. They either play it like its sekiro and try to block/parry everything or they force attacks instead of observing the boss and attacking them on their recovery time. The dodge in lies of P is strong asf, specially vs the big enemies like magnus and puppet king which blocking just pushes you back constantly instead of just dash attacking in and its actually more generous timing wise than perfect parrying.
The best example I thought of was the White Lady boss, where I was too fixed on learning to parry her moves, but I realized after multiple attempts that you can dodge forward right, and none of her attacks can land. Finding this blind spot and exploiting it felt rewarding since it felt like a proper duel. With that being said, I can't relate to the Soul Games comparison since I have never played a single one, and I appreciate it this way since I get to experience this game for what it is rather than what it could or should be. While I agree with some criticism of this game, I often find that most are based on how close to dark souls the gameplay mirrors. I think fans are too stuck on one franchise's gameplay mechanics to adjust to a new style. Call it a stretch, but I believe this is what leads to most games feeling boring and uninspiring since they are trying to replicate what worked. This is not to say the two titles shouldn't be compared, but rather, too many comparisons to a popular title can be since players expect a game that replicates rather than builds upon those ideas.
@@Bft149Yeah, I've personally found that all of the White Lady's attacks whiff if you run perpendicularly to her, so you can just do that over and over until she whiffs an attack that leaves her open for a backstab.
the only grime i have with LoP is the barely existing "learning/difficulty curve". What i mean by that is, bosses are farely decent from the beginning, but your accesible "features" like the double dodge or that you dont lie on the ground for 10 seconds after being knocked come rather late, making you go through the first 4/5 bosses on higher difficulty simply by having a character that more or less walks on crux, which is not a very good experience especially for first timers in the genre. I think peoples opinion of the game being unfair stems from that, which in my eyes is definitely understandable. Compared to Fromsoft's Souls series, this definitely feels a bit more unfair in the beginning.
@@Bft149i agree. If its too close to souls, people will just look at it as budget souls, but any mechanics that deviate too far from souls are also bad because its not just like souls
Man, I am sorry to say this but I kinda lost my respects for you. This video convinced me to buy Lords of the fallen and it is the worst game I played this year- terrible level design, dropping framerate, weapons and builds feel all the same.
Not even bro, you’re Trippin you can feel the weight an impact especially when you’re using the holy sword on lies of P and it is souls like more of a BLOODBORNE/sekiro, so quit hating
After playing lotf. The game is legit trash. The only good thing are the builds and multiplayer. Oh wait, you cant enjoy either because the hit boxes don’t work and the bosses are trash. So buggy and jank which is a shame because of how dang good it could be. It is so close to being good but misses so hard because of all the jank and lack of polish. Lies of P on the other hand was made by devs that had played fromsoft games and know that the games need to have decent combat with reliable hitboxes. LoP is so much better than lotf that it’s not even a competition.
Great video. crazy you had such a different take then me. When you said LoP is unresponsive and the bosses weren’t fun, I feel like you must have been playing a different game. That was not my experience at all. In fact the exact opposite.
I've played all the souls games right from the start (demons souls ps3) sekiro and elden Ring,i played the first lords of the fallen and gave up because it was so buggy it just annoyed me, lies of p is fantastic, so much so that I'm on my 3rd play through to platinum it, I'm looking forward to playing lords of the fallen as it's just arrived, i just hope it's better than the first version
Also being able to dodge while laying down. If that is not what you ment in the first place. I dont remember if there are 2 of this kind or its just one.
Not gonna lie, I platted Lies of P with barely using deflect, and dying maybe 20 times combined across my playthroughs. The dodge is not useless in that game. The game is not required to be parry heavy. Seems more like LoP never clicked for you. Really excited for LotF, but I dont feel the LoP criticisms hit the mark.
I'm actually amazed if somebody could die so few times on a first playthrough. I'm a souls veteran and I died nearly 20 times at Scrapped Watchman alone.
@valentinvas6454 In my first playthrough, I leveled only health, stamina, and capacity for quite a while. Did not even touch a damage stat until after the archbishop. I could wear the heaviest frame parts, and plenty health, and enough stamina to dodge and attack. This made the game feel pretty forgiving even though I was making a good amount of mistakes. And then in the ng+ and ng++ I knew what to expect so i just steamrolled through them.
Personally being locked into animations is a very Fromsoft thing. I am a fan of methodical combat and comiting ti ur actions and if u mess up u r punished for it. Animation canceling and a ridiculously quick gameplay begins to feel to spammy for me. I’m on my 3rd play through of lies of P and it really feels like a Fromsoft game. I am very concerned with the speed of lords of the fallen and the animations look weird to me to the point I’m not getting it until it gets into more hands. I actually completely disagreed with almost all this videos cons except enemy stagger and lack of poise. Dodging works fine, parrying is hard but that’s how it goes. I do not like easy games. Lies of P requires you to have proper spacing and using blocking and dodging at the correct moments. It can be very challenging and that’s what I personally want. I hope I’m wrong about LOTF but somehow my instincts are almost always right when I watch gameplay. And watching ur character roll 15 feet in one roll and running like Usain Bolt with 100lbs of armor on I just don’t know.
I agree with you on everything you said. However, see an actual skilled player playing LotF before making a judgement. There are a couple that got review copies. And regardless of those points, the devs clearly made a compelling world that's well thought out, and rewards exploration... something I have to admit LoP doesn't do. Great gameplay, world and story are intriguing... but exploration is nonexistent. Both games are/will be fun to play, and will have pros and cons
@@ricardodarcangelo2437 I agree with u 1000% LOP has zero exploration. I am hoping I am wrong about LOTF because a good game is always good for gamers. I just want to see it in a few more players hands and see if maybe I’m tripping. The graphics and world look top tier for sure. I never fully trust early reviewers because I’m paranoid and dropping 80-100 bucks is a big deal to me and I’m sure a lot of others.
Cant say i agree with your take on lop combat. And it's exactly why you said you weren't a fan of it, the skill ceiling is very high. I believe high difficulty is one of the best aspects of a soulslike. I cant feel i enjoy a boss when i defeat it first attempt while not even seeing the full moveset. With lop that's not possible, you have to properly learn all bosses, and when you de the feeling is so rewarding. I also love the varied moveset and delays, it's what makes for a challening experience. And none seemed unfair to me, you always get mad like any soulslikr but it's because of the heat of the momenr. When you look back you realize it was your fault that you made a mistake
I couldn't agree more, I actually never felt frustrated with any boss in LOP the same way many souls games make me feel. I don't think the skill ceiling is that high it's just different. It my first no leveling/upgrade run and it feels amazing when you perfect guard each attack from the bosses.
Except on patch 1.2 I beat all late-game bosses on my very first attempt, except Nameless Puppet. I don't care how good you are at Dark Souls or Bloodborne, unless you're proficient at Sekiro, the Nameless Puppet in LoP will wreck you. F that dude on NG+++ 😅😅😭😭😭
@@brandtmiles2373 probably because you were already used to the game and the bosses (i assume it was ng+). The patch didn't change that much imo, laxasia stayed the same i believe and she's one of the hardest. To have a boss down to a t is harder than most soulslike games i think. And heah nameless puppet is definitely one of the hardest indeed, especially if you want to do a no hit only parries run
To me, LoP seems like a more cohesive experience, which has me somewhat salty because I’m a sucker for dark fantasy. Edit: not everything is some black and white philosophical battle between two things. Lord of P and Lotf can both be good at the same time shockingly.
I can't agree with this video when every single footage of LoF's combat just looks so terrible. While LoP's combat is hella polished in comparison. lol
I loved the Lies of P combat, specifically the deflect/perfect guard. I struggled with Sekiro, but for some reason Lies of P was much easier. Maybe it just clicked for me, but once I learned the bosses moves (by dying more than a few times) they became easy and fun to parry, and made me appreciate all the different bosses. Whooping the King of Puppets first try on NG+ parrying him was a blast
Playing Sekiro after LoP and I agree. I think it has something to do with a heavy reliance on posture damage and how the combat isn't ideal for fighting multiple opponents without using stealth, which is fine, I'm not about to call Sekiro a rhythm game like some do, just might not be my cup of tea
The difference is you don't have to parry every attack from every enemy like sekiro. You can parry the attacks you find easy to parry and dodge roll the others. I'm sekiro it's parry or die while in p you can parry or never parry and play it like it's dark souls. Los of p is my goty.
Haven’t played lords but the bosses in lies are on a different level of detail you won’t notice unless you are used to doing no healing/no hit fights. The bosses can feel so flowy and to me topping or matches some of my favorite souls bosses. Give them a more detailed shot with some time and see how you fight them different. We all don’t like fights we can’t click with. When things start making sense and you get into that flow we can flip hating a boss at the start to loving them. It’s what I’ve gone through in a ton of these games but lies is amazing. Trust me.
Yup im on my fifth playthrough arm only currently and the problem comes from people trying to play the game like souls (dodge heavy) or sekiro (parry heavy) and then complain about windows but if the windows were any bigger itd ruin bosses its balanced to the point your supposed to use every mechanic and most people cant dig themselves out of one of the habits to actually play the game as its own thing
@@doitfaster9553 yea a mix of dodging, backstepping and parries is what I like in fights. I don’t just like standing there waiting for the parries I like to keep things moving and have them in there on top of everything else. Super fun. Try backstep attacks too. Iframes just like dodging for backsteps and you can use them in place of dodging the same move
Thank you for this comparison. It was really helpful. It's funny though how different some play experiences can be. I have been playing Lies of P. I SUCK at Souls-like games but I have been finding Lies of P quite a bit more accessible so far. My experiences do match yours in some regards but differ HUGELY in others. I do agree that the game loves to punish you for making mistakes and you can definitely get locked into a series of attacks or get hammered repeatedly while you are effectively stun locked and that does suck. But when I get hammered when I am on the offensive I often feel like it is my fault because I "got greedy". For reference, I have just defeated the Puppet King and I have not found a fight to be unfun or unfair yet. I also found that the game demands you use both blocks and dodges on bosses pretty evenly so far. The second phase of the puppet king would have been impossibly punishing if I tried to block. Step or dodge left worked MUCH better almost every time for that fight. The bizarre thing was that blocking the big guys worked better and for the more human opponents I found dodging more effective because they were so fast. For that reason I suspect strength builds will have the hardest time. I went magic, so I have a solid shock weapon, fire weapon and acid weapon. When I have the right type equipped the enemies seem to just melt. I also love the shotput. Being able to stagger a vulnerable enemy without needed a charged attack is a game changer. The hilarious thing is that I had the most difficulty with a mini boss rather than a full boss so far: The fat clown. OMG is that thing a pain in the ass 😀 I realize it is VERY possible that I have just not run into the most obnoxious of the bosses yet, and I do defer to your obvious expertise as I have never even been able to finish a souls game before, so what the hell do I know, but oddly I have just clicked with Lies of P more that any of the others I have tried. My experience with this game has emboldened me to try Elden Ring again with more confidence that I can actually learn the mechanics.
Fat clown and the puppet master phase 2 for me. Fat clown was the worst for me though. Not sure if it was just my build. Once you learn to parry his spin attack he was just about doable. Worst run back in the game to him too… Goty for me so far
This is such a bad take on lies of which is a shame. The boss fights were so badass. Challenging yes but not in anyway unfair. I was getting frustrated first play through but one i got used to all the systems and tools the game gives you the combat was very rewarding. I wish they would have had a bit more exploration but other than that its an extremely solid experience.
The bosses in lies of P never felt unfair to me, maybe its just because im good at Sekiro and the other souls games but I never died more then 3 times max to any of them on my first run aside from King of Puppets. The dodge felt fine you just can't spam it as you don't get as much distance as souls. My only issue were some of the fury attacks but other then that they all felt fair. And this was all before the patch.
@@ramen3643 You have to choose what you parry and what you dodge, some attacks have very predictable movement and timings and it's really easy to get some parries in. Others you just need to react quickly and I usually dodge those. Usually i'd only dodge first and once I got a feeling for some of the attack i'd try to parry em mid fight.
Cant wait for lotf2 , but man lies of p for me was great, the story was easy to follow, the boss are not that bad considering finishing the game pre nerf, once you get the parry timing down it becomes easier, i love that metal clanging sound , and that impact during fatal attack sounds like gears being pierced/smashed so satisfying ✅✅✅ only thing i don’t like about lop is the camera angle during boss jump attacks 😂😂😂
@@chandlerrenteria9043same fam, it was my GOTY too i cant wait for DLC and more souls-like from them especially if they stay on the public domain children's characters route.
disagree so hard about bosses in lies of p are the most unfun part of the game lol. they were super fun, there was never a moment were I blamed the bosses or the game for my deaths, such a weird take to hear from you Zio and again wrong combat isn't the weakest part of the game....stop comparing it to other stuff and take it as it is
Wel...I have to disagree on you on this... Funny how Souls players are now complaining about the same things that they use to bash people on the past, I honestly you didnt learn enough how to play Lies of P, and you tried to play like a From Soft game when its not.... the responsiveness of LOP is fair and great, the thing his you get punished hard, and honestly thats what makes a souls games...you should commit to every movement you make, and its not like you dont have enough tools to work around, because you definetly have. I would like to see more about you playing the game, because I dont see how you could think the bossses are unfair...and if you felt when you beat it, was luck...idk you said yourself, I think is a skill issue on not learning properly the game, some bosses will be easier dodging, some would be attacking, it all depends on you, how to do it, you can see plenty of videos where people destroy the bosses but it requires huge amount of skill, and of course the right upgrades in the P organ that helps a lot. All of the enemies respond to your attacks, the enemy you showed is a Elite enemy, like others Elites, they wont get staggered easy, and it makes sense, but maybe you dont know that because you didnt noticed. If you felt the combat of Lies of P was the worst part because like you said...the skill ceiling is so high... I dont even know what to say to you.... being a youtube channel about Souls games and say this kind of stuff. Of course, its your opinion, but makes me scratch my head a little.
i played lies of p depending more on dodging, not on parry and have already been in my 5th NG. i don’t think lies of p prioritizes parrying, you still have a choice
I would say it depends when it comes to the bosses of lies of p, since a majority of them I actually quite enjoy fighting against but there’s only two bosses I really hate is the second phase one winged angel and the second phase green swamp monster.🐱
The winged Ángel you can go behind and just fight an slighty harder version of phase 1 Second phase swamp monster is wachtman on steroids, and i mostly like It, but devs should Nerf the damage he does in the second phase like holy s*** he hurts as much if not more than laxasia and Simon manus
You know the bosses are well designed because I went back and bitch smacked them in subsequent playthroughs.... even though it took multiple days a piece to get through them first playthrough
Lords of the fallen should be compared to dark souls 3 not lies of P. Y’all really overhyping lies of P, probably the worst souls game since 2013. Majority of people completed it in 3 days, customisation is terrible, the boss fights are difficult but they’re very underwhelming. The world is dead, nothing to find or explore.
I love and have both but personally I think LOP is way more solid of a souls like. It’s way more polished and just plays so much better. Lords of the fallen isn’t bad but it’s for sure really janky. Hit boxes are terrible, animations feel off etc
I think it’s unfair to say the combat is the worst part about a game simply because you aren’t good at it yourself. It would be totally different if it were poorly designed and not based on a skill issue. I sense an unfair and biased opinion on Lies of P.
heres my take, Lords of the fallen LOOKS like a soulslike, Lies of P PLAYS like a soulsborne. also dodge is NOT useless as long as u stay under slightly heavy and again thanks to the p organ and eye frames, u can dodge twice and recovery, the ONLY issue i have with lies of P, is getting stuck in a wall and not being able to move HOWEVER, i cant think of 1 souls game where that hasn’t happened to me, even in Code Vein that happened lol.
Lies of P runs perfectly on steam deck, lords of the fallen says unsupported, therefore lies of p wins for me since I can actually play it (and play it without performance issues on relatively high settings)
Lies of P feels way better. I deleted lords of fallen after 10mins of trying to like the game. I died to first boss once and was like “nope, i dont feel like beating a cheap Malenia knockoff with floaty heavy gameplay”. Can call it a skill issue but the convoluted lamp stuff and descriptions (just call the cross thing a healing item ugh) put me right off to. With lies of p right off the bat u know the ergo charges heal you DONE.
I don't agree with a single thing you said about LOP combat, but you got me hyped about LOTF. I guess I am still waiting for the reviews, but I think I won't be able to scape the hype.
@@limongang1209nah some ppl dont like lies of p because they dont like it, simple really, also DS combat is more complex once u factor in build variety and its effects in combat, personally i love lies of p though, but it really isnt that much more complex than DS combat options wise. ppl can not like a game u know, its alright.
Heavy disagreement with the bosses, i dont think there was a single main boss i didnt like, it could be because i was using a motivity build, but i never felt like i did no dmg and the boss hp regain wasnt too much of an issue, its there to force you to play aggressive which is my normal playstyle 🤷♂️
just platinumed Lies of P. I genuinely don't get the complaint that the game was too hard, high ceiling, combat bad, unbalanced, clunky movement, etc. Elden Ring was my first souls game, I'm not a souls veteran nor a master of these kinda game, I suck. But man, I think Lies of P was quite "easy", all the clunky movement, unbalanced difficulty, etc, I don't get it. I think the game is perfection, especially as a souls-like. Yes, it was challenging, I died many times and struggled, but I never got tired nor frustrated with it in any way. I haven't played LotF yet, but I gotta disagree with your take on Lies of P combat felt far behind.
Gotta be honest, just 100% Lies of P and had an absolute blast. I do think there needs to be balance changes with the enemies/bosses, and probably extend the perfect block window (although i got that down.). Quests needs to be fixed as well, since there is a way to permanently lock yourself out of a quest if you don't do a certain thing in a certain order, and ends up being bugged. King of Puppets was the only boss i struggle on, until i switched weapons.
@@cody1574 Big Pipe Head with Booster handle. Later, I also did Living puppet head with Chef's knife handle, and Big Pipe Head with City Long spear handle.
@@josephjoy2245 When you Attack Alidoro after the hotel attack, you get his cryptic vessel. If you speak to Eugenie before talking to Venigni to translate and read the vessel, you cannot tell her the truth about the vessel at all. When you check the Stargazer, you can see Eugenie's face icon, as if you have to talk to her. But it's just bugged out or an oversight by the devs. They need to change it to you MUST talk to Venigni first or else she won't have new dialogue. That'll fix it.
I have beaten all three Dark Souls games without ever Having learned how to parry. I'm good enough with them that I didn't need to learn. That being said, lies of p was the first game where I actually had to learn how to parry. And I got pretty good at it. There was no point in the game which seemed unfair. Challenging due to my usual play style for Souls games being vastly different from what is required but never unfair. I could always tell that the cause of death was my own fault. I learned the patterns. I learned the weaknesses. And above all else, I actually learned how to parry. It did what Dark Souls and Elden ring and bloodborne could never do. It made me not rely on the same play style that I usually do. It's the first time since the original Dark Souls that I actually had to git gud. And i love the game for that
Lies of p was amazing how is the dodge useless lol you still have to time your dodges I really don't understand how you can say it is useless. Also the combat was super fun had minor faults if you died it was your fault not the games fault. Watched some lotf gameplay and man that gameplay looks rough I hope I'm wrong but it definitely looks a lot more cluncky then LOP.
Couldn't disagree more about Lies of P. The combat feels more interesting than Souls. I got really tired of the roll, R1 fighting of Souls games. I do agree LoP is too hard, but the philosophy is more fun. This is coming from a guy who played BB and Elden ring only. Use summons to make it a bit easier. like, use the summon to beat the first phase after you feel like you earned that part. That might work for you.
lies of p is a great soulslike. was not a big fan at the beginning especially because it takes so much time to get different weapons. after a few hours it becomes great. I Did not have any problem with the dodge. I did not use any perfect parry for the whole game. and i did not find the bosses very difficult. More difficult than elden ring but easier than any DS imo.
@glenspleen2969 It's likely because you had already played other Souls games before it. I honestly would rate DS1 as like half as difficult as Elden Ring. I think I only died to Manus once.
@@BlackenedRainvowPigs Honestly can't even play DS2. It bores me too much. The only boss I actually loved fighting was Fume Knight he actually kicked my ass but I was brute force Bonking him with the Church Bell weapon. I probably could have beaten him in 1/5th the time if I didn't use one of the slowest weapons in the game.
