Lore of Horizon Forbidden West: Know Your Enemy 

lmao guess humanity never changes no matter how advanced they are

For real. Someone didn’t watch the ‘Safety First!’ video

even then unless it had fail safes i doubt the empty trash would have worked it would know how to stop the deletion

My love for the franchise is still in recovery

Masterpiece?? Good joke!

@@DrumEagle it had the potential to be one

Forbidden west was no masterpiece, completely fell flat coming from how amazing zero dawn was

Forbidden West was a fantastic game, but not quite a masterpiece. Better than Zero Dawn in a couple ways, but falling shorter on most others.

I this is the case. I really wanted more of Tilda.

She never really claimed Nemesis didn't include her mind, if you notice. She says "it is us", not "it is them". Classic non-denial denial.

I love the idea that the part of Nemesis driving it to Earth is Tilda's regret and desire to return to Elisabet. Aloy can definitely exploit that sense of abandonment. I like this theory! (Especially because it means bringing back Carrie-Anne Moss in some form.)

"Nemesis might be a little insane" Yeah i don't think so, it's literally all of Zenith's minds a swarm of self-centered people as Tilda said. Nemesis is Very Insane.

I wonder how Aloy will beat Nemesis. It’s probably more advanced than the zeniths and it is not a Zero dawn system and probably can’t be hacked by Aloy’s override tool

Actually, Aloy does tell GAIA about CYAN if you talk to her. GAIA tells Aloy that she did try to contact CYAN but never got a response back, & it’s mainly because the last time CYAN got contacted by an AI, she ended up getting taken over by HEPHAESTUS so she’s being wary for good reason.

im a bit hesitant, the 3rd game could feel quite saturated with AI`s

Vast Silver as far as I am concerned in long gone. It was captured before even the faro plague began.

@@Andrew-ez9pl Some datapoints in FW suggest Vast Silver escaped containment somehow. There's no information showing whether it survived or was destroyed by the Faro Plague, so it's rather possible that Vast Silver is still out there.

@@originalph00tbag As big and powerful as Vast Silver was, it could easily be that it was and is the architect of everything. Was Vast Silver's defeat a piece of lore . . . or foreshadowing for its return? Was the Faro Plauge a glitch . . . or was it Vast Silver getting into FAS during development and leaving code to cause the bots to go haywire down the line? Is Nemesis really a transcendence experiment gone wrong . . . or did Vast hitch a ride out to Sirius to get better tech and wipe out that branch of humans before coming back to Earth to finish the job.

Is Hephaestus capable of thinking like that? I know it’s an extremely intelligent AI but it always seemed like it ran completely on instinct but now that I think about it those instincts could lead him back to Gaia

Beta's clothes look real comfy to me. She doesn't "dress" like a *Zenith*, because what they're "wearing" are armored/enhanced/cybernetic mostly-replacements for their bodies. Radical life extension wasn't achieved just via good vitamins.

agreed

I sadly find the Horizon series a solid mirror for real (American) life. Regulations to protect workers/the environment were written in blood by previous generations, and corporations spin a narration about how regulations solely exist to prevent them from being able to profit as much (which, kind of? Protecting the sanctity of habitats and life doesn't turn a fast profit the way Capitalism values). In Horizon, during the 2050s, it was agreed after Vast Silver escapes AIs should only be allowed a certain level of intelligence/sentience (the "Turing Act"). We are shown a couple of examples where corporations continued to play with fire (CYAN, Gaia), but since the stories around them are told from the protagonists, we are supposed to accept the Turing Act is an overly aggressive regulation, and the creators of CYAN and Gaia are somehow "smarter" than the creators of Vast Silver, or there was some "mistake" to learn from. CYAN or Gaia could just as easily have gone the same route Hephaestus did. I would even argue Hephaestus even gives solid support for why the Turing Act was suggested in the first place. Obviously we have enough data from the Horizon series to know not every sentient AI goes rogue, but we also have enough data to understand why even one AI going rogue would be a Big Deal and a threat to the sanctity of human wellbeing, if not human life directly. Meanwhile, the Zeniths go on to make Nemesis. They lived through Vast Silver escaping and the Turing Act coming into play to know why uploading their entire consciousness into an AI is a Bad Idea (TM). There's a good chance they are far more aware of other AIs that have gone rogue/had similar issues like Vast Silver had, as well as examples where other AIs have been perfectly subservient to its creators (Londa's Nova for example here, probably Julius as well). It's the same hubris Elisabet had with creating Gaia, the only difference is this time, the Zeniths did not have the same level of luck Elisabet did.

​@@cordeliafacevast sliver was a breakthrough, cyan needed to be smarter than the limits but they knew vast sliver intellectual threshold and decided to make cyan vastly inferior, just smart anough for Yellowstone which would surpass limits of regulation

Nemesis is a hivemind entity, it's one just Peter, it's all of the Zenith, your Theory doesn't even make sense for Nemesis motives themselves.

@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad the way he phrases the theory made it sound like Nemesis is just Peter's consciousness taking revenge against the Zeniths who corrupted his vision and legacy. I'm basing my comment off of that assumption

@@aryankotru9204 Peter is still in there but as we all know he's likely buried under those self-centred ones that screams louder than him in the hivemind. I hope the game shows us Aloy can talk with Peter somehow to convince Nemesis to stop

@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad yeah that seems plausible, i don't see them defeating Nemesis even with Hephaestus on their side lol, so it's probably our best guess

@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad My guess is that Elisabeth will have had her conciousness there aswell. I hope so, only cause i want Aloy to actually be able to speak with "her", if only for a few moments :(

Yeah, it really seemed they wanted to make it this big twist at the very end. But to be fair, it all seemed so plausible to have the Zeniths as the bad guys. You want to believe that they sent the Extinction Signal and want to destroy all life on Earth because that's what the capitalists and billionaires they're based on are already doing right now in real life. Sometimes you don't need an endless robotic swarm or a chaotic super AI. Sometimes the greatest monsters are just the worst possible versions of humanity.

"The Unknown Signal" is already a foreshadowing, we just doesn't know it's Nemesis. They didn't "dumped out of nowhere" for shit.

@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad no it isn't, it's a mystery, foreshadowing would be hiding clues as to who or what sent it, something they didn't do for nemesis whatsoever, so yes nemesis very much came out of nowhere

@@thelastbrickbender2139 Nemesis sure came out of your ass. Hades literally tell us "The Master" aka Nemesis is the one sending the signal to wake him up. That's huge ass foreshadowing. The only thing you guys should worry and "it came out of nowhere" should be the main reason why Hades want to get rid of Aloy in the first game because that one doesn't explain why.

@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad that's not what I'm saying, the master tells us nothing about its nature, just we knew their was gonna be something or someone,but there was no foreshadowing as to who or what that person/thing was gonna turn out to be And the whole game was spent making the zeniths that someone, so yes the revelation that it was actually a different 3rd party, we had no way of knowing about did come out of nowhere, though honestly the game had me fearing that reveal was gonna be aliens, so nemesis isn't the worst option

that's such a cool idea that would be great for gameplay, including a boss battle where you fight yourself. this would mean having to relearn the way you fight and play the game. refreshing the game completely. A side note aswell if this were to come true, the clone could infiltrate the group that Aloy has created, turning friends against each other and creating a rift among the group. Becoming essentially a spy of nemesis! im excited to see where HZ could go

@@vestajay2038 I like the idea of the third clone being a spy for NEMESIS, maybe there could be a point where the clone and Alloy would switch places, with Alloy being kidnapped and the clone becoming the temporary playable character, with the switch being unknown to even the player until the reveal, with the possibility that Beta could in an attempt to reach her sister because another temporary playable character, maybe instead of a bow and arrow she could make use of the energy weapon of As another theory I have is that given Alloy origins in the half abandoned Lightkeeper Protocol that was designed to create clones of the Alphas during their original lifetime, that given Ted attempts to become physical immortal and his Omega level clearance over the system, that in another way to achieve immortality he could have, In order to become “the man who saved the world” again would program the creation of the clone to happen in a time where ZD would be threatened a clone of himself either at a cradle or another off the books facility would be born possibly raised in his image or a form of mental uploading to restore Ted, with another possibility being that more than one clone of him would have been created with multiple clones of Ted in existence maybe with one existing in the Quen lands in the past, and given that the other sub functions followed a twisted form of their original missions, that ELEUTHIA would have followed orders in creating new humans but with the possibility that all humans have been born within its CRADLES would turn to the only remaining genetic samples available, that belonging to the Alphas and create clones of them, maybe in the other Cradles across the world with there being at least 8 others in existence, with given their upbringing and any knowledge of their origins could have power over their respective areas of ZD secondary only to Alloy and Beta as Alpha Prime/Omega and in the next game could be either friend or enemy, what do you think?

Agreed! I've been needing these excellent lore summaries while exploring the HFW game! Glad they're coming out again! I'm certain they are a TON of work tho!!

Exactly how on earth does Aloy expect to stop it with such prehistoric ideals and abilities.

Yeah but i am always thinking about londra’s datapoint about how we can defeat nemesis from 21st century superweapons what to you think is it a Powerful Railguns or some Emp Weapons..

Well the issue is the writing. This whole Nemesis twist would have been much better if it was handled by the zero dawn writer.

Yeah, everything is not clear.

I still hope VAST SILVER makes an appearance in the next game.

@@kronosleblu888 it was. He already wrote the story for the game before he left guerilla

@@kronosleblu888 Wait. It's not the same person writing the story for both games?

That would be cool to see!!

Thank you. Completely agree. It's crazy how I am not in the least bit hyped or excited for the next horizon game. They gave far too many answers and to make matters worse the whole Lore of the franchise has become rather .... Predictable. As we all know, the lead writer of zero dawn was not involved with the writing of forbidden west. Hence the story just felt so.....generic. Let's hope the DLC redeems everything otherwise the way Guerilla is now shifting focus to multiplayer and VR is pretty telling.

@@kronosleblu888 While i really liked the story of HFW, i was not "blown away" by it as with the first one yeah, the replacment of the lead writer might cause that. Fair to say HFW combat is leagues better than HZD but still problems with melee

@@kronosleblu888 Actually, John Gonzalez was Narrative Director for Horizon Forbidden West. It's on his LinkedIn page.

GAIA already has ARTEMIS, ELEUTHIA, & APOLLO (more specifically the alpha build that Elizabet gave to Far Zenith that Beta learned from) at the end of the game, taken back from the Zeniths. The only subordinate functions GAIA doesn’t have are HADES (who Aloy got rid of) & HEPHAESTUS (who they let go in order to gain the upper hand on the Zeniths).

@@Phanthief95 wait..it did... must have missed that part after the final.battle

Yeah, I always suspected that Tilda was lying about her involvement with Project Anzu. Tilda probably justified it as, "Well, if we steal GAIA, then Lis has to come with me."

i think he could be sylens

@@jifij89 yup, I have same idea...

Glad you found us 😁 I've actually had scripts for them for a while now, but have been waiting for more detailed info from the online Hub the game guide promised. Unfortunately it still isn't live...

@@RandomSideQuest can you do Many of the other tribes. especially the Utaru Tribe, they seem messed up. (Horizon Forbidden West)

@@RandomSideQuest Ok, thanks for the reply

I don't think that'll bring satisfaction at the end kind of anticlimactic at least have a boss fight with it

Well, there is a theory that Sylens is a clone of Tshivhumbe.

I also think ther made an error when worldbuilding happend for the lore as they was no way to Set up nemesis in a cool way

I'll take a look 😁

I bet Nemesis is Vast Silver.

@@Weissman111 yeah, either that or we'll look for vast silver to defeat nemesis

@@aljazslemc9569 From what I've gleaned from the few references about it, VS hid in the Apollo database (thanks to Travis Tate), so when Faro purged it, the copy of VS on Earth was lost. However, as FZ got a copy of it, all or part of VS went with FZ to Sirius. I think once VS found the failed experiment, it combined with it to make Nemesis....that's just my theory anyway 🙂

Hey there! I basically shove Aloy against a wall, and force the camera into 1st person 😅

@@RandomSideQuest I see 😆 thanks 🙏

@@RandomSideQuest LMAO XD